Nissan Leaf anyone buying it?

Shane732

Or the wife goes into labour and the husband is like oh sh*t the leaf isn't charged!!! :D

Or we get a bit of a thunderstorm and the electricity is knocked off..... :D

Shane732

robtri wrote: »

not 100% sure on how it actually works, all i remember is that they are under lease.. how the payment is set up i am not sure...

EDIT just checked.. cost included in price

and the ESB will install a charging point at your house for free for first 2000 customers

also here is charging cost at home
€2 overnight / €20 per month / €232 annually
* based on average annual 19,300km

Is there any independent back up for this or just Nissan's own figures? You also forgot to mention that the cost is based on off-peak electricity rates.

Shane732

One final pi*s take of the Leaf -

Can you imagine trying to do the annual Cannonball run in it?

robtri

galwaytt wrote: »

proof please. Last time I checked all the coal and oil used to make our electricity arrived here in Very Large Boats..........that run on diesel.

And, unless you have 30k lying around in cash, you'll be borrowing the money. Add interest on 30k, instead of a 12k car, and there's nothing cheap about an electric car.

I like the principle, but in the Real World, and with our very expensive electricity, it has a long, long way to go before the number's make sense.

the same boats that deliver our petrol and diesel????????
so that would be up to that point same emissions...
then take into account that most of our gas is pipped in ... no emissions
and the small amount of wind.. no emmisions


coal is only 14% of our energy mx... gas is 69%


so the only question is which is more efficeint at turn fuel into energy?? a conventional petrol engine or our elctricity generating stations???

read all about it here
http://www.going-electric.org/docs/studies/CO2-energy-electric-vehicles.pdf

robtri

Shane732 wrote: »

Is there any independent back up for this or just Nissan's own figures? You also forgot to mention that the cost is based on off-peak electricity rates.

Fine double it for peak hours... which would be 460euro for 19000 km
how much would the alfa cost to do 19000km???

independant... just as independant as any other manufacturers stated MPG...

robtri

whippet wrote: »

All well and good until you have it charging in your drive way one night and a little scrote waking home from the pub takes the plug out and you end up running out of charge at the end of the driveway!

why do little scrots not mess with petrol and diesel cars ??? just as likely to have all four tires knifed....
or more than likely the petrol one is not there in the driveway.... what thief would rob an electric car over a nice petrol one

Technoprisoner

and i have a feeling that insurance cost are going to be crazy for these things as they are a higher risk and id imagine replacement parts are going to be exspensive.

by the way...30 grand seems like a very exspensive battery not to actually own lol

galwaytt

robtri wrote: »

the same boats that deliver our petrol and diesel????????
so that would be up to that point same emissions...
then take into account that most of our gas is pipped in ... no emissions
and the small amount of wind.. no emmisions


coal is only 14% of our energy mx... gas is 69%


so the only question is which is more efficeint at turn fuel into energy?? a conventional petrol engine or our elctricity generating stations???

read all about it here
http://www.going-electric.org/docs/studies/CO2-energy-electric-vehicles.pdf

.....well so long as petrol has a higher calorific value than coal, you'll still need more ships for your coal...

....yes, gas piped in, via electric pumps........which, funnily enough, are powered by a nuclear grid - irony, huh ?

...and the small amount of wind is crippling us with huge energy levy's. Without subsidy, it would never, ever pay for itself. Even this week on a TV I was watching a prefecture in Japan trying to figure out how to un-couple themselves for a wind farm they installed for the city. It was going to cost $1million per turbine to physically un-install it, and they they'd be hammered for another $34million in 'lost revenue contract' issues.........nuts. Why don't they just give the public $34million directly, instead ?

Oh, and, let's not forget out good 'ol friend the phoney 'carbon tax'. Also on electricity.

None of this, though, gets away from the original point of the OP's post: the car is fine: it's just about 200% too expensive. At the right price, you can overcome all the above points.

Sesshoumaru

Technoprisoner wrote: »

by the way...30 grand seems like a very exspensive battery not to actually own lol

Renault were the ones who were stating they may lease the batteries in their new electric Fluence. They have a pilot "filling" station I remember reading about where you pull in and an automated machine swaps the depleted battery in your electric car for a fully charged one in about 3 to 5 minutes. You couldn't have a system like this if everyone owned their own batteries.

With the Leaf you fully own the battery.

Technoprisoner

so 30 grand is expensive for your very own battery lol

Sesshoumaru

galwaytt wrote: »

.....well so long as petrol has a higher calorific value than coal, you'll still need more ships for your coal...

....yes, gas piped in, via electric pumps........which, funnily enough, are powered by a nuclear grid - irony, huh ?

Coal has to be extracted from the ground, but so does Petrol, however it doesn't come out of the ground as petrol. It requires more energy to process it from crude oil into petrol. Can we also add the economic cost of spills like the BP spill in the Gulf region as well? Since it's becoming an ever more rarer commodity and humans go to ever greater depths to get the stuff! It seems only more likely we'll have more giant spills polluting the environment. Nothing ironic about nuclear either! With modern reactor designs it could be the stop gap we need to tide us over until we come up with something better like Fusion power.

johnos1984

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

it could be the stop gap we need to tide us over until we come up with something better like Fusion power.

You need a Mr.Fusion in your life

Sesshoumaru

Technoprisoner wrote: »

so 30 grand is expensive for your very own battery lol

Oil is way harder to get now than it was in 1973 and we're also in more competition for it with countries like China and India. It's far from impossible that we could have another very sharp rise in the price of oil. If this happened I imagine electric car owners would look like oracles and that 30k a good investment.

Discounting that scenario for a minute, the price of oil is only ever going to continue upwards. We only have one planet after all and it takes a few million years for the planet to produce more of the stuff. Even in America where petrol is taxed far less than here, the price per gallon just keeps going up and up.

*edit* Not to mention that we need oil for making other stuff as well, not just petrol and diesel! Can you imagine a world without plastics?

johnos1984

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

*edit* Not to mention that we need oil for making other stuff as well, not just petrol and diesel! Can you imagine a world without plastics?

Or vasaline :eek:

goat2

hsi wrote: »

I was thinking of buying the Nissan Leaf because of the Goverment grant.

But its €29,995 after Government incentive.... Was thinking of using it for urban travel, and it does 160Km on 1 charge.

But 30k is a lot of money, I know Tax and Fuel will be small.. but still it would be cheaper to get a regular 15K 2nd hand.

Its there any real incentive to buy the car? I suppose the Middle-Upper classes can afford it, but for the majority its pricey.

29,995 really it is 30,000, incentive me aris

squod

Making a car which works on batteries is a bleedin environmental disaster AFAIK. The batteries alone cause all kinds of pollution in the countries they're made in and end up being dumped in. This is always the mental picture I come up with when I think of ''electric'' cars.

Before.........


After.......

Technoprisoner

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Oil is way harder to get now than it was in 1973 and we're also in more competition for it with countries like China and India. It's far from impossible that we could have another very sharp rise in the price of oil. If this happened I imagine electric car owners would look like oracles and that 30k a good investment.

Discounting that scenario for a minute, the price of oil is only ever going to continue upwards. We only have one planet after all and it takes a few million years for the planet to produce more of the stuff. Even in America where petrol is taxed far less than here, the price per gallon just keeps going up and up.

*edit* Not to mention that we need oil for making other stuff as well, not just petrol and diesel! Can you imagine a world without plastics?

well for a car that has an $18000 battery in it id be a bit sceptical...oh and dont forget as the price of oil goes up so will the price of electricity;)

Sesshoumaru

Technoprisoner wrote: »

well for a car that has an $18000 battery in it id be a bit sceptical...oh and dont forget as the price of oil goes up so will the price of electricity;)

I didn't say I'd buy one myself. I'm sceptical as well. For me the leaf is like the first gen iPhone, nice! But you know the next model will be much better and probably cheaper as well.

Nuclear power isn't affected much by oil prices.

Technoprisoner

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I didn't say I'd buy one myself. I'm sceptical as well. For me the leaf is like the first gen iPhone, nice! But you know the next model will be much better and probably cheaper as well.

Nuclear power isn't affected much by oil prices.

of course it is...oil is still used to lubracate the rotating parts in nuclear power production....and what about the ships that bring the fuel from country to country

Sesshoumaru

Technoprisoner wrote: »

of course it is...oil is still used to lubracate the rotating parts in nuclear power production....and what about the ships that bring the fuel from country to country

I don't see us getting to the stage where we can't buy some WD40 for a nuclear power station. How much oil do you think a nuclear power station needs directly on a daily basis? I'm not an expert on nuclear power station design, but I'm pretty sure the only major moving part in one would be the steam turbines and I doubt they're some archaic 19th century design either, they won't need people pouring buckets of oil on them every few seconds.

shedweller

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I don't see us getting to the stage where we can't buy some WD40 for a nuclear power station. How much oil do you think a nuclear power station needs directly on a daily basis? I'm not an expert on nuclear power station design, but I'm pretty sure the only major moving part in one would be the steam turbines and I doubt they're some archaic 19th century design either, they won't need people pouring buckets of oil on them every few seconds.

No, but the ships and trains transporting that radioactive sh1te are using it at a prodigious rate! Not to mention the actual mining of the stuff, and the looking after it as it decomposes during its 20,000 odd year half life.
Yeah, its great stuff alright that nuclear.

Sesshoumaru

shedweller wrote: »

No, but the ships and trains transporting that radioactive sh1te are using it at a prodigious rate! Not to mention the actual mining of the stuff, and the looking after it as it decomposes during its 20,000 odd year half life.
Yeah, its great stuff alright that nuclear.

I simply said "modern reactor designs", because I didn't want to get dragged into a debate on nuclear fission power. It's been debated to death on Boards before, but I'll simply say that nuclear fission technology has progressed since the 50's and 60's. We may not need to mine so much uranium.

Also you can't really compare the rate of oil consumption by mining and transportation of uranium in a society that uses that nuclear power for everything else (think nearly everyone using electric cars, electric TGV's etc) to our current situation where nearly every mode of transport is ICE based. Of course we'd still use oil, but if anyone said it wouldn't be dramatically less...

x in the city

hsi wrote: »

I was thinking of buying the Nissan Leaf because of the Goverment grant.

But its €29,995 after Government incentive.... Was thinking of using it for urban travel, and it does 160Km on 1 charge.

But 30k is a lot of money, I know Tax and Fuel will be small.. but still it would be cheaper to get a regular 15K 2nd hand.

Its there any real incentive to buy the car? I suppose the Middle-Upper classes can afford it, but for the majority its pricey.

nissan leaf

about as exciting a driving a car made from eco friendly cow dung

Timmaay

Get a Civic hybrid, or any small engined car if you are that concerned about the environment instead of the Leaf for now.

Electric vehicles might be the long term solution in terms of emissions where we move away from peat oil and coal powerstations, but for now plug-in hybrid electric vehicles are the way forward, at least they still have an internal combustion engine for when you need to travel any length of a trip.

Sesshoumaru

Shane732 wrote: »

One final pi*s take of the Leaf -

Can you imagine trying to do the annual Cannonball run in it?

http://www.esb.ie/electric-cars/electric-car-news-and-events/electric-car-press-releases/ESB-ecars-powers-up-for-cannonball-run.jsp

I guess someone should let ESB ecars know it's not possible :rolleyes:

Electric Car Charge Point Route & Tour Stops

Friday 9th September
Start line 10.00pm, Merrion Square
Tour stop in Mondello, 11.00pm
Fast charge Monasterevin, Kilkenny
Tour stop Waterford, 2.30pm
Fast charge Dungarvan
Tour stop Cork, 7.00pm
Overnight charge in Cork

Saturday 10th September
Depart Cork and fast charge in Limerick
Tour stop in Bunratty, 12 – 2.30
Fast charge in Galway
Tour stop Westport, 6.30
Overnight charge in Westport

Sunday 11th September
Depart Westport and fast charge in Galway
Launch of fast charge point in Topaz Athlone, 12.00pm
Tour stop and charge in Kinnitty, 1.30
Finish line: Kilkenny, 5.00

studdlymurphy

So did anyone take the leap to the leaf? and if so what are they like?

creedp

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I simply said "modern reactor designs", because I didn't want to get dragged into a debate on nuclear fission power. It's been debated to death on Boards before, but I'll simply say that nuclear fission technology has progressed since the 50's and 60's. We may not need to mine so much uranium.

Also you can't really compare the rate of oil consumption by mining and transportation of uranium in a society that uses that nuclear power for everything else (think nearly everyone using electric cars, electric TGV's etc) to our current situation where nearly every mode of transport is ICE based. Of course we'd still use oil, but if anyone said it wouldn't be dramatically less...

Where are we going to locate the reactor and how much will it cost to build and manage the radioactive waste? In relation to the cost of oil spills, I think the Japanese or Chernobyl could give you a good estimate of the cost of a nuclear accident. If nuclear is so good why are the Germans effectively shutting down their nuclear electricity generating stations? Nuclear is only an option for us if we can buy it over the interconnector from the UK. If so we will still have to maintain our fossil fuel stns because if the interconnector went down where would we be then? The reality is that yes we could generate more renewable electricity but in the medium term we are still looking at predominantly fosil fuel generated electricity in Ireland and in that case EV's are not that much more efficient that ICE's.

Now you may think so but I have nothing against EV's except that for now they are a rich man's toy and therefore should not be subsidised by Govt to the extent they are. If you want one buy one by all means and benefit from the low electricity cost to run them .. but whay should everyone else have to subsidise them?