01 Focus engine cutting out

kirving

Woah! DO NOT PAY THEM ANYTHING! It's their mistake!

I changed the VSS in my dad's 1.6 '01 Focus (because I was able to reach it!), took about 30 seconds to disconnect a lead, pull the old one out, stick the new one in and reconnect it. Honestly, its that easy, I'm not over simplfying it at all if you can get under the car. (Wheel ramps/axel stands much safer than a jack) You'd want to be seriously careless, never mind incompetent, to break the bloody thing.

That said, I hear the dash can also be a problems on some.

Also, on the car cutting out....

After coming back from Galway with no problems over christmas, the car wouldn't start. It would crank over, but no ignition. Thought the battery was low, so tried to jump start it. That didnt work either.

There were no lights coming on on the dash either. Narrowed it down to the fuel pump after checking fuel pump relay and it turns out the pump had to be replaced.

Ford wanted a few hundred quid (it is an awkward job though, as the fuel tank has to be removed). Took the car to a relations garage, removed the tank, took the pump out of it and replaced the motor in the pump for about €100 I think.

It was odd that the car drove back from Galway with no probs at all and just wouldn't start the next day. If the fuel pump on yours is acting up, it might also cause it to cut out as you're just driving along.

Kev.

Plug

kev, were do you buy the motor separately?

kirving

Southside Motor Factors, off the Kylemore Road. I think it was about €100, I wasn't there when it was bought.

mgsrocks

Plug wrote: »

Thats it yep. must of been dumb mechanics to snap that, they had the new one. Just look at it and see how long it is. The way to get these out is, take the pin out spray WD40 is there and around the top of it and wiggle it out out a small grips or something, spraying a bit of WD40 every few MM's.

I really should have done it myself, I just didn't trust working under the car when it was only being held up by a jack!

I have the car back now, wasn't going to pay 300 fio his mistake but, what should I do next? It's a small garage but simi registered and has been around since before I was born! I plan on ringing on Monday to see if he will repair the damage for free but I'm not hopeful.

I want to get under the car to take some pics and see the the extent of the damage. Where exactly is the vss located? Passenger side or driver side? Is it directly under the engine bay?

Plug

mgsrocks wrote: »

I really should have done it myself, I just didn't trust working under the car when it was only being held up by a jack!

I have the car back now, wasn't going to pay 300 fio his mistake but, what should I do next? It's a small garage but simi registered and has been around since before I was born! I plan on ringing on Monday to see if he will repair the damage for free but I'm not hopeful.

I want to get under the car to take some pics and see the the extent of the damage. Where exactly is the vss located? Passenger side or driver side? Is it directly under the engine bay?

First of all don't go under a car with a jack, so many storys of people been crushed. Its located I suppose in the middle at the back of the gearbox. You have a left and right driveshaft that goes into the gearbox and its on the gearbox at the were the right driveshaft goes in.

See here. see were the date is on the picture in red at the bottom right well the right hand side drive shaft is under that so that gives you a rough idea were it is.

mgsrocks

Plug wrote: »

First of all don't go under a car with a jack, so many storys of people been crushed. Its located I suppose in the middle at the back of the gearbox. You have a left and right driveshaft that goes into the gearbox and its on the gearbox at the were the right driveshaft goes in.

See here. see were the date is on the picture in red at the bottom right well the right hand side drive shaft is under that so that gives you a rough idea were it is.

I parked my car up on a kerb and was able to get under it. Can you take a look at these photos just to confirm that I'm looking at the right thing?

So this is the right hand drive shaft and the speed sensor is above this, right?

This is a top down view from the open bonnet. The black circle is what's left of the speed sensor if I'm looking at this right? Seems to be a load of scratch marks around it from him trying to get it out.


And heres a photos of the loose plug thats not going any where. Its just tied on with a zip cable. Could this damage the plug?

Plug

The plug should be ok but if its left there for a long time water might attack it. Maybe if you can get a drill down on top of it, put a small hole in it and then thread in a screw. Then try to pull it out with a claw hammer? I reckon it could be got out with out dropping the gearbox. Get a new mechanic for yourself;)

mgsrocks

Plug wrote: »

The plug should be ok but if its left there for a long time water might attack it. Maybe if you can get a drill down on top of it, put a small hole in it and then thread in a screw. Then try to pull it out with a claw hammer? I reckon it could be got out with out dropping the gearbox. Get a new mechanic for yourself;)

The mechanic said he did go at it with a drill with no luck. Ill try the screw idea tomorrow after work when I have a bit of light to work with.

I just want to double check that the black circle in the second photo is the VSS before I go at it with a drill?

Does anyone have any experience with a mechanic doing something like this? Should I insist he fix the problem (for the original cost of replacing the sensor) or should I bring my car to a new mechanic and then try recover the cost from the original mechanic?

Plug

Thats it anyway, the black battered looking round thing. Small drill bit, don't drill in to far and a put a screw in. Claw hammer then. It might come out.

mgsrocks

Plug wrote: »

Thats it anyway, the black battered looking round thing. Small drill bit, don't drill in to far and a put a screw in. Claw hammer then. It might come out.

Had a go there, looks like you weren't the first to have that idea. There's already 4 holes drilled into the plastic (not very clear from the above pic) so he must have tried it already. I couldn't get a screw in anyway, so little space to work with. I tried getting a pincers into the holes but I couldn't get a good enough grip, it kept slipping off. The more I look at it, the more it looks like the gearbox is gonna need to come out!

Plug

Drill 2 larger holes and put down a skinny long nose pliers and maybe twist it and see. DONT GIVE UP. If it comes to a stage where the gearbox has to come out, put the car up on axle stands, remove the centre mount, then take out the airbox, with the gearbox been supported with a jack remove the bolt from the gearbox mount and lower the gear box side sown a bit. Maybe that way you might have more clearance.

smokie2008

Hal1 wrote: »

There not my pics maybe that's the mtx version?

Edit: like this init?
Pictures

Hey Hal1, were are you getting these pictures?? Just wondering is there a site or something that has all that kind of thing that I don't know about.

OP.....If I was you I'd maybe call the garage and see can you come to some sort of an agreement before you go hacking at it because if you make it worse they'll be able to say "ah here you've made it worse" then wash there hands with it.

Keep us posted and best of luck.

Hal1

smokie2008 wrote: »

Hey Hal1, were are you getting these pictures?? Just wondering is there a site or something that has all that kind of thing that I don't know about.

There are plenty of ford sites out there with tons of info on various models. I don't want to go spamming links as it's against the charter. A google search will throw up some of the sites I'm talking about. I'll pm you some links to the good ones I found.

mgsrocks

smokie2008 wrote: »

OP.....If I was you I'd maybe call the garage and see can you come to some sort of an agreement before you go hacking at it because if you make it worse they'll be able to say "ah here you've made it worse" then wash there hands with it.

Keep us posted and best of luck.

Well, I gave the garage a call this morning and he didnt want to hear about it! He said he did everything possible to get it out and had two guys working for 3 hours at it.

He said best he can do is €250 for the gearbox removal to get it out.

Doesnt look like there is much else I can go about it now besides get a few quotes and see if anyone can beat that price.

I'm sure a complaint to SIMI will just fall on deaf ears so it's not worth my while going down that route.

EDIT: Just got a phone call saying that they can try to melt it out with a heat gun so I'm gonna drop it in next saturday. Fingers crossed!

Hal1

mgsrocks wrote: »

Well, I gave the garage a call this morning and he didnt want to hear about it! He said he did everything possible to get it out and had two guys working for 3 hours at it.

He said best he can do is €250 for the gearbox removal to get it out.

Doesnt look like there is much else I can go about it now besides get a few quotes and see if anyone can beat that price.

I'm sure a complaint to SIMI will just fall on deaf ears so it's not worth my while going down that route.

EDIT: Just got a phone call saying that they can try to melt it out with a heat gun so I'm gonna drop it in next saturday. Fingers crossed!

So 2 monkeys spent 3 hours working on removing it and failed? And they didn't think of using a heat gun in that time? I call bollix. Try a different garage, it seems your wasting money with these clowns.

smileyscientist

OP here, mechnic just rang with the same problem. Hes been trying to take the ss out but its stuck fast in there. Hes tried everything and is afraid to apply any more pressure in case it breaks apart and that would mean the gear box would have to come out. I gave the go ahead as we dont have any other option- it has to be changed.

Il pass on yr info but hes said hes tried eevrything but it just wont budge. This is turning in to a nightmare FAST:(

Plug

I take it he took the pin out. Next he'd be better of spraying oil on it and then try twist it with a small grips. They are all a cnut to get out but they can be done without breaking them.

mgsrocks

smileyscientist wrote: »

OP here, mechnic just rang with the same problem. Hes been trying to take the ss out but its stuck fast in there. Hes tried everything and is afraid to apply any more pressure in case it breaks apart and that would mean the gear box would have to come out. I gave the go ahead as we dont have any other option- it has to be changed.

Il pass on yr info but hes said hes tried eevrything but it just wont budge. This is turning in to a nightmare FAST:(

Thanks for the info OP. Can you let me know how much he charges? I was quoted €300 but he went to €250 when I refused to pay that much.

Ush1

Plug wrote: »

I take it he took the pin out. Next he'd be better of spraying oil on it and then try twist it with a small grips. They are all a cnut to get out but they can be done without breaking them.

Just O/T question for yourself Plug.

04 1.4 Ford Focus, is it normal for the edges of the alternater drive belt pulleys to be rough? Noticing a whistling noise when I rev the engine from that area.

Plug

Ush1 wrote: »

Just O/T question for yourself Plug.

04 1.4 Ford Focus, is it normal for the edges of the alternater drive belt pulleys to be rough? Noticing a whistling noise when I rev the engine from that area.

Rough? No. the edge of the gold part should be smooth if anything. Are you getting mixed up with the belt or the pulley?

kirving

I really hope you aren't paying the garage any extra. It's a strightforward fix, I'm not a mechanic and it was a piece of piss for me to do. Maybe I was lucky? The plastic hardly in them degrades in them over time and weakens them...

Plug

Kevin Irving wrote: »

I really hope you aren't paying the garage any extra. It's a strightforward fix, I'm not a mechanic and it was a piece of piss for me to do. Maybe I was lucky? The plastic hardly in them degrades in them over time and weakens them...

You got lucky. most of the time they are seized in it.

kirving

Fair enough! Still, breaking it and expecting the owner to pay isn't good form.

Ush1

Plug wrote: »

Rough? No. the edge of the gold part should be smooth if anything. Are you getting mixed up with the belt or the pulley?

No, honestly it's the pulley. Not just one, two I've rubbed my finger along the edge of are rough as if they were hacked at. The outer edge.

Could a stone have flew up from the road and got caught.

I thought the whistling might be the belt but it doesn't seem worn, although admitedly I haven't check properly the whole belt.

smokie2008

Hey guys, my attitude is kinda taking a turn on this after reading the last few posts. If these sensors seize in there like Plug says they do, is it really the mechanics fault?? I mean I know he broke it but at the end of the day the sensor is well and truly seized in there so is it really up to him to spend a whole days work taking the box out and not getting paid for it??

Its hardly his fault its jammed in there and I'm sure by the photos that he's really really tried to get it out....and can't, without taking the box out?

Thoughts

mgsrocks

smokie2008 wrote: »

Hey guys, my attitude is kinda taking a turn on this after reading the last few posts. If these sensors seize in there like Plug says they do, is it really the mechanics fault?? I mean I know he broke it but at the end of the day the sensor is well and truly seized in there so is it really up to him to spend a whole days work taking the box out and not getting paid for it??

Its hardly his fault its jammed in there and I'm sure by the photos that he's really really tried to get it out....and can't, without taking the box out?

Thoughts

After reading what the OP said I agree. And a search on google shows it happened to people before. He also rang me back to suggest the heat gun when there was no need too.

Just to get an opinion, is €250 a fair price for removal of a gear box. Since he's not replacing it then I should only be paying for labour. How long would it take?

Plug

its a bit expensive to remove a gearbox alright.You should buy a new clutch and release bearing and ask him to put it in when he has the gearbox out;) I know if this was my garage the service manager would would tell the customer, it snapped you need to pay labour to take the gearbox out. But if it happened me, i'd be gutted!

smileyscientist

Right, so todays the day! I suggested the heat gun to him bu the said he had alreadfy thought of that but a gun would never produce the same intensity of heat that driving the car would so even after getting the box to a hot temp it still wouldn't budge. Hes got a small vice and plenty of WD40 and loads of prayers and thats it :eek:

Re who should stump uo the costs- I disagree taht the mechanic should pay for it. If the part HAS to come out and theres no other way but to chnace it and see if it will break apart then thats what has to be done. If it does break its nobody's fault but theres no way I would expect him to lose nearly half a days wages over something as unpredictable as this. Its a total gamble.

Re the cost of the gearbox removal and installation I was quoted a figure of 250e, presuming that everything sails soomethy if we get to that stage.

Fingers crossed it wont come to that. The thing that bothering me over all of this is that I could end uo spending 300e on something that might not evebn fix the original problem... Grrrrr:mad: but must think positively!!! Will keep ye updated!

smileyscientist

Well positive thinking didnt work.. it broke and gear box is currently on the ground and waiting to be out back in.. will cost about 300e for everything:mad: and it still might not fix the problem! Not my week!!!

Plug

He charaged alot to remove the gearbox ad refit it. A main dealer probably wouldn't charge that much!