01 Focus engine cutting out

smileyscientist

Hi All,

Driving a 01 focus zetec since June 09 and began experincing problems with the engine/battery since last winter. First noticed the speedometer would not read speed, only intermittendly. During the cold snap last winter, the car would cut out if I braked or changed down gears. The EML would come out and it would slowly cut the engine. My mechanic could not find the fault because it would not show up on diagnositcs because it was an intermittent problem. He was at a total loss but thought it might be the potentiometer so changed that part for 100e and no problems at alll until this winter (althogh the speedo still wouldnt register speed sometimes but no cutting out)

Fast foward 12 months and the problem has raised its ugly head again. During the cold weather 2 weeks ago, the engine cut out on the motorway. I thought this might be due to a poor battery as I had to jump it earlier that morning. Couldnt restart the car without jumping it again and everything was going haywire- alarm, immboliser, lights on etc.
About 10min later same thing happened and we jump started it this time from another car, no problems after this. Until this week.

Anytime I am driving and the speedo goes to 0 and I slow the car down it will fail, but no problems if the car is slowed while the speedo is working normally. Car starts again perfectly only to repeat it again inevitabely.

Going back to meachnic again tomorrow to see if he can shed any light on it.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Not only an annoying but also dangerous issue!!!

Thanks in advance!

Hal1

The speed sensor usually causes the speedo to fluctuate. That or the spark plug ht cables coming in contact with the cht sensor cable in middle of spark plugs, they need to be separated. I would try another mechanic if all he's working off is a diagnostic scanner.

Plug

I'd say get him to test the battery. Then replace the speed sensor. I had to replace my speed sensor before but I never had cutting out problems from it. I don't see how it could cause it to cut out.

The fuel pump in them can give trouble. Ask him to do a fuel pressure test on it. Has your car been underpowered/hesitating?

Morlar

Could this also be the ignition coil ?

Plug

Morlar wrote: »

Could this also be the ignition coil ?

It could be I mean. Ya know it be actually a mixture of problems.

I'd say op's mechanic might have sh!t diagnostics, Ford are an acquired taste as described by another user here which is true!

smileyscientist

Thanks guys(or girls!)

All of what you've said makes sense from what Ive read up about this.
I was also thinking fuel pump but wouldnt that not cause the car to shudder to a stop ? Instead the power and electrics just seem to fail slowly?

The speedo problem and the cutting out are definately interlinked because the car runs perfectly fine when the speedo is performing normally.

Re the battery, I asked my meachanic if the battery needed changing after it was sluggish during the cold snap but he seemed to think it was ok for another while.

He thought aslo it may be an alternator problem- or a poor connecation from the alt to the battery?

Just sat into the car at 4o clock and tried to start it and it wont even crank now just makes a ticking sounds and immobiliser light and hazards flash. Grrr...

But I'll pass on your advice to him folks, or anything else you think might shed some light on it!!!!

Plug

Its a new battery you need mate. Put in a new battery and a new speed sensor and tell us how you got on. The vehicle speed sensor is going back to the PCM and then onto the instrument cluster. He should really test the wires.

mgsrocks

Plug wrote: »

Its a new battery you need mate. Put in a new battery and a new speed sensor and tell us how you got on. The vehicle speed sensor is going back to the PCM and then onto the instrument cluster. He should really test the wires.

Having similar problems with my 02 focus and I'm nearly sure it's the speed sensor. Any idea how much one would cost to get replaced? I've checked up on trying to replace it myself and I think it a bit to complex.

Plug

Its about €40 for the part. To replace it all you do is plug it out, pull out the pin and pull out then sensor. Then put in the new sensor, put back in the in and then plug in it. Thats in theory but in reality its a bit of a bitch to do. Bring it to a garage as alot of them do be seized;)

smileyscientist

smileyscientist wrote: »

Re the battery, I asked my meachanic if the battery needed changing after it was sluggish during the cold snap but he seemed to think it was ok for another while.

He thought aslo it may be an alternator problem- or a poor connecation from the alt to the battery?

If I was you I'd be changing mechanic Did he actually load test the battery or use a voltmeter or anything or just did he reckon it was ok ?

smileyscientist

Well it wouldnt start one morining at home even from a battery so it had to be towed to the garage. I was sure the battery was done for then but he seemed to think there was life in it yet, and yes he tested it with a voltameter.

Just dropped it back to the garage and it cut out twce on the way and nearly a third time but once the battery light flicked on I revved it a bit and it recovered itself - so maybe your onto it with the fuel pump issue?

One more thing, dunno if this is off any significance but under the bonnet I noticed a loose wire on the RHS. It seems to be coming out from the RHS of the engine and running down near the RHS head lamp but just ends there. There is black tape around the head of the wire so it looks like it was tampered with before...

Such a headache! Thanks again folks!

smileyscientist

Plug wrote: »

Its a new battery you need mate. Put in a new battery and a new speed sensor and tell us how you got on. The vehicle speed sensor is going back to the PCM and then onto the instrument cluster. He should really test the wires.

I just looked up how to change the speed sensor and yes looks complicated. It did say though, that the odometer and the speedo wont work if the speed sensor is faulty. However my odometer is working fine as well as my rev counter! Do you still think its the speed sensor??

mgsrocks

smileyscientist wrote: »

I just looked up how to change the speed sensor and yes looks complicated. It did say though, that the odometer and the speedo wont work if the speed sensor is faulty. However my odometer is working fine as well as my rev counter! Do you still think its the speed sensor??

When the same thing started happening on my focus the odometer was still working. It's now completely unresponsive, just shows

---

. I'm sure if you leave it, the odometer will start to act up.

I don't think changing the vss is difficult, it's just that it's in an akward place. Im gonna ring around a few places next week and try get a quote for a replacement and fitting.

smileyscientist

I don't think changing the vss is difficult, it's just that it's in an akward place. Im gonna ring around a few places next week and try get a quote for a replacement and fitting.[/QUOTE]

Right, be great if you could let me know( PM me) how you get on... honeslty if its not one thing its 200 others!:rolleyes:

mgsrocks

smileyscientist wrote: »

Right, be great if you could let me know( PM me) how you get on... honeslty if its not one thing its 200 others!:rolleyes:

Had my car serviced in Atlas Tyres over the weekend and they couldnt diagnose the problem. I mentioned it was probably the VSS but they couldnt confirm.

I gave Airside Ford a rang this morning and they quoted €38.49 for the part (which seems fair) and roughly €45 for the half hour labour to change the part.

eh i dunno

mgsrocks wrote: »

Had my car serviced in Atlas Tyres over the weekend and they couldnt diagnose the problem. I mentioned it was probably the VSS but they couldnt confirm.

I gave Airside Ford a rang this morning and they quoted €38.49 for the part (which seems fair) and roughly €45 for the half hour labour to change the part.

Hey think i have a similar problem to you. My speedometer drops to 0 occasionally while driving and once or twice the mileage clock reads ---- too. The sound also dips on the radio when the speedometer drops. Mailed Ford in Harmonstown and was quoted about 550 to fix it. Is it dangerous to be driving the car with this problem?

Plug

Bollox that. Get your arse to a ford garage and buy the vehicle speed sensor and then get a mechanic to fit it. Sorted!

TychoCaine

smileyscientist wrote: »

I just looked up how to change the speed sensor and yes looks complicated. It did say though, that the odometer and the speedo wont work if the speed sensor is faulty. However my odometer is working fine as well as my rev counter! Do you still think its the speed sensor??

Nope. My spedo went first on it's own, and a new dash replaced it.

smileyscientist

TychoCaine wrote: »

Nope. My spedo went first on it's own, and a new dash replaced it.

So I shouldnt bother with the speed sensor?? You reckon it needs an entire new dash? Im not awfully bothered about the speedo its the cutting out im v concerned about!

j@utis

Plug wrote: »

Bollox that. Get your arse to a ford garage and buy the vehicle speed sensor and then get a mechanic to fit it. Sorted!

+1.
my bf focus '01 was acting up the same way as op (if you take foot off the accelerator car cuts out on the motorway lol (scary actually)). he brought it in for service and got speed sensor done for extra tenner problem solved.

smileyscientist

j@utis wrote: »

+1.
my bf focus '01 was acting up the same way as op (if you take foot off the accelerator car cuts out on the motorway lol (scary actually)). he brought it in for service and got speed sensor done for extra tenner problem solved.

Great. That is the most positive thing Ive heard. Il definately get it done so first thing. Hopefully, we've cracked it! Got callback for 2nd round interview so might be able to upgrade soon

smileyscientist

Hi all,

So update on the situation. All set to get the sensor, mechanic rang the local Ford garage for it. Part will cost 40e approx but when he explained the problem they said they had never heard of the sensor causing the car to cut out but it would fix the speedo problem. He then rang me to relay the news and suggested I send it in for a full diagnostic with them to see if anything will show up

Rang them and they cant take it until Wed next. Costs 65e plus VAT for the test but I guess its better than spending 100e plus on something that mighnt work...hope it shows up something or its the scrap yard for it!

NWPat

smileyscientist wrote: »

Well it wouldnt start one morining at home even from a battery so it had to be towed to the garage. I was sure the battery was done for then but he seemed to think there was life in it yet, and yes he tested it with a voltameter.

Just dropped it back to the garage and it cut out twce on the way and nearly a third time but once the battery light flicked on I revved it a bit and it recovered itself - so maybe your onto it with the fuel pump issue?

From this I would suggest the alternator is failing. The battery in its self could be fine but will not charge from dying alternator, hence battery light, unable to start and cutting out.

smileyscientist

NWPat wrote: »

From this I would suggest the alternator is failing. The battery in its self could be fine but will not charge from dying alternator, hence battery light, unable to start and cutting out.

Update:
the mechanc reckons both the battery and altenator are both running perfectly.

He advised me to go get a diagnostic done on it and then get the sensor changed as the Ford techinicans sai the sensor would not cause the car to cut out.So booked it in for next Wed.
In the meatime hes also been talking to Motorpark in Galway and they asked if the speedo needle flickers from time to time, which it does but v rarely.
The man in Motorpark then suggested we were right out our first assumption was at fault so that it being changed today and the diagnostic cancelled for now. The technician said hes never actually heard of a car being cut out due to this but said it was entirely possible.
Hopefully we have cracked it!

mgsrocks

mgsrocks wrote: »

Had my car serviced in Atlas Tyres over the weekend and they couldnt diagnose the problem. I mentioned it was probably the VSS but they couldnt confirm.

I gave Airside Ford a rang this morning and they quoted €38.49 for the part (which seems fair) and roughly €45 for the half hour labour to change the part.

Nightmare situation now! I bought the replacement VSS off ford and left the car into a local garage to change the part.

I got a phone call off them 3 hours later saying they broke the old sensor it taking it out and now half it is stuck in the gearbox. €300 quote to take apart the gear box to take it out!

What was an occasional problem of the speedo dropping for the few seconds is now a permanent issue.

Anything like this happen to someone before? Have I any comeback with the garage?

smokie2008

^^^^^^ you gotta be shítting me.

There's not a hope in hell I'd be paying them for something that THEY broke.
They were supposed to change the sensor thats it. If they broke it in the process then let them fix what they broke.

Is this place a franchise or just a small back street garage?

Plug

mgsrocks wrote: »

Nightmare situation now! I bought the replacement VSS off ford and left the car into a local garage to change the part.

I got a phone call off them 3 hours later saying they broke the old sensor it taking it out and now half it is stuck in the gearbox. €300 quote to take apart the gear box to take it out!

What was an occasional problem of the speedo dropping for the few seconds is now a permanent issue.

Anything like this happen to someone before? Have I any comeback with the garage?

They can be fairly tight coming out alright, now the gearbox may have to come out. Buy a new clutch as well sure hit 2 birds withthe one stone:D

Hal1

I taught a needle nosed pliers could remove that. I have a pretty good 'how to' guide on this procedure and it's fairly straight forward. Anyone I know of who's attempted it never had anything like that happen. I call cowboys on that garage and get them to sort it at their own expense.

Plug

Hal1, the speed sensor on the Focus comes down vertical, not horizontal like the picture or is that picture just with the plug disconnected?

Hal1

Plug wrote: »

Hal1, the speed sensor on the Focus comes down vertical, not horizontal like the picture or is that picture just with the plug disconnected?

There not my pics maybe that's the mtx version?

Edit: like this init?

Plug

Thats it yep. must of been dumb mechanics to snap that, they had the new one. Just look at it and see how long it is. The way to get these out is, take the pin out spray WD40 is there and around the top of it and wiggle it out out a small grips or something, spraying a bit of WD40 every few MM's.

kirving

Woah! DO NOT PAY THEM ANYTHING! It's their mistake!

I changed the VSS in my dad's 1.6 '01 Focus (because I was able to reach it!), took about 30 seconds to disconnect a lead, pull the old one out, stick the new one in and reconnect it. Honestly, its that easy, I'm not over simplfying it at all if you can get under the car. (Wheel ramps/axel stands much safer than a jack) You'd want to be seriously careless, never mind incompetent, to break the bloody thing.

That said, I hear the dash can also be a problems on some.

Also, on the car cutting out....

After coming back from Galway with no problems over christmas, the car wouldn't start. It would crank over, but no ignition. Thought the battery was low, so tried to jump start it. That didnt work either.

There were no lights coming on on the dash either. Narrowed it down to the fuel pump after checking fuel pump relay and it turns out the pump had to be replaced.

Ford wanted a few hundred quid (it is an awkward job though, as the fuel tank has to be removed). Took the car to a relations garage, removed the tank, took the pump out of it and replaced the motor in the pump for about €100 I think.

It was odd that the car drove back from Galway with no probs at all and just wouldn't start the next day. If the fuel pump on yours is acting up, it might also cause it to cut out as you're just driving along.

Kev.

Plug

kev, were do you buy the motor separately?

kirving

Southside Motor Factors, off the Kylemore Road. I think it was about €100, I wasn't there when it was bought.

mgsrocks

Plug wrote: »

Thats it yep. must of been dumb mechanics to snap that, they had the new one. Just look at it and see how long it is. The way to get these out is, take the pin out spray WD40 is there and around the top of it and wiggle it out out a small grips or something, spraying a bit of WD40 every few MM's.

I really should have done it myself, I just didn't trust working under the car when it was only being held up by a jack!

I have the car back now, wasn't going to pay 300 fio his mistake but, what should I do next? It's a small garage but simi registered and has been around since before I was born! I plan on ringing on Monday to see if he will repair the damage for free but I'm not hopeful.

I want to get under the car to take some pics and see the the extent of the damage. Where exactly is the vss located? Passenger side or driver side? Is it directly under the engine bay?

Plug

mgsrocks wrote: »

I really should have done it myself, I just didn't trust working under the car when it was only being held up by a jack!

I have the car back now, wasn't going to pay 300 fio his mistake but, what should I do next? It's a small garage but simi registered and has been around since before I was born! I plan on ringing on Monday to see if he will repair the damage for free but I'm not hopeful.

I want to get under the car to take some pics and see the the extent of the damage. Where exactly is the vss located? Passenger side or driver side? Is it directly under the engine bay?

First of all don't go under a car with a jack, so many storys of people been crushed. Its located I suppose in the middle at the back of the gearbox. You have a left and right driveshaft that goes into the gearbox and its on the gearbox at the were the right driveshaft goes in.

See here. see were the date is on the picture in red at the bottom right well the right hand side drive shaft is under that so that gives you a rough idea were it is.

mgsrocks

Plug wrote: »

First of all don't go under a car with a jack, so many storys of people been crushed. Its located I suppose in the middle at the back of the gearbox. You have a left and right driveshaft that goes into the gearbox and its on the gearbox at the were the right driveshaft goes in.

See here. see were the date is on the picture in red at the bottom right well the right hand side drive shaft is under that so that gives you a rough idea were it is.

I parked my car up on a kerb and was able to get under it. Can you take a look at these photos just to confirm that I'm looking at the right thing?

So this is the right hand drive shaft and the speed sensor is above this, right?

This is a top down view from the open bonnet. The black circle is what's left of the speed sensor if I'm looking at this right? Seems to be a load of scratch marks around it from him trying to get it out.


And heres a photos of the loose plug thats not going any where. Its just tied on with a zip cable. Could this damage the plug?

Plug

The plug should be ok but if its left there for a long time water might attack it. Maybe if you can get a drill down on top of it, put a small hole in it and then thread in a screw. Then try to pull it out with a claw hammer? I reckon it could be got out with out dropping the gearbox. Get a new mechanic for yourself;)

mgsrocks

Plug wrote: »

The plug should be ok but if its left there for a long time water might attack it. Maybe if you can get a drill down on top of it, put a small hole in it and then thread in a screw. Then try to pull it out with a claw hammer? I reckon it could be got out with out dropping the gearbox. Get a new mechanic for yourself;)

The mechanic said he did go at it with a drill with no luck. Ill try the screw idea tomorrow after work when I have a bit of light to work with.

I just want to double check that the black circle in the second photo is the VSS before I go at it with a drill?

Does anyone have any experience with a mechanic doing something like this? Should I insist he fix the problem (for the original cost of replacing the sensor) or should I bring my car to a new mechanic and then try recover the cost from the original mechanic?

Plug

Thats it anyway, the black battered looking round thing. Small drill bit, don't drill in to far and a put a screw in. Claw hammer then. It might come out.

mgsrocks

Plug wrote: »

Thats it anyway, the black battered looking round thing. Small drill bit, don't drill in to far and a put a screw in. Claw hammer then. It might come out.

Had a go there, looks like you weren't the first to have that idea. There's already 4 holes drilled into the plastic (not very clear from the above pic) so he must have tried it already. I couldn't get a screw in anyway, so little space to work with. I tried getting a pincers into the holes but I couldn't get a good enough grip, it kept slipping off. The more I look at it, the more it looks like the gearbox is gonna need to come out!

Plug

Drill 2 larger holes and put down a skinny long nose pliers and maybe twist it and see. DONT GIVE UP. If it comes to a stage where the gearbox has to come out, put the car up on axle stands, remove the centre mount, then take out the airbox, with the gearbox been supported with a jack remove the bolt from the gearbox mount and lower the gear box side sown a bit. Maybe that way you might have more clearance.

smokie2008

Hal1 wrote: »

There not my pics maybe that's the mtx version?

Edit: like this init?
Pictures

Hey Hal1, were are you getting these pictures?? Just wondering is there a site or something that has all that kind of thing that I don't know about.

OP.....If I was you I'd maybe call the garage and see can you come to some sort of an agreement before you go hacking at it because if you make it worse they'll be able to say "ah here you've made it worse" then wash there hands with it.

Keep us posted and best of luck.

Hal1

smokie2008 wrote: »

Hey Hal1, were are you getting these pictures?? Just wondering is there a site or something that has all that kind of thing that I don't know about.

There are plenty of ford sites out there with tons of info on various models. I don't want to go spamming links as it's against the charter. A google search will throw up some of the sites I'm talking about. I'll pm you some links to the good ones I found.

mgsrocks

smokie2008 wrote: »

OP.....If I was you I'd maybe call the garage and see can you come to some sort of an agreement before you go hacking at it because if you make it worse they'll be able to say "ah here you've made it worse" then wash there hands with it.

Keep us posted and best of luck.

Well, I gave the garage a call this morning and he didnt want to hear about it! He said he did everything possible to get it out and had two guys working for 3 hours at it.

He said best he can do is €250 for the gearbox removal to get it out.

Doesnt look like there is much else I can go about it now besides get a few quotes and see if anyone can beat that price.

I'm sure a complaint to SIMI will just fall on deaf ears so it's not worth my while going down that route.

EDIT: Just got a phone call saying that they can try to melt it out with a heat gun so I'm gonna drop it in next saturday. Fingers crossed!

Hal1

mgsrocks wrote: »

Well, I gave the garage a call this morning and he didnt want to hear about it! He said he did everything possible to get it out and had two guys working for 3 hours at it.

He said best he can do is €250 for the gearbox removal to get it out.

Doesnt look like there is much else I can go about it now besides get a few quotes and see if anyone can beat that price.

I'm sure a complaint to SIMI will just fall on deaf ears so it's not worth my while going down that route.

EDIT: Just got a phone call saying that they can try to melt it out with a heat gun so I'm gonna drop it in next saturday. Fingers crossed!

So 2 monkeys spent 3 hours working on removing it and failed? And they didn't think of using a heat gun in that time? I call bollix. Try a different garage, it seems your wasting money with these clowns.

smileyscientist

OP here, mechnic just rang with the same problem. Hes been trying to take the ss out but its stuck fast in there. Hes tried everything and is afraid to apply any more pressure in case it breaks apart and that would mean the gear box would have to come out. I gave the go ahead as we dont have any other option- it has to be changed.

Il pass on yr info but hes said hes tried eevrything but it just wont budge. This is turning in to a nightmare FAST:(

Plug

I take it he took the pin out. Next he'd be better of spraying oil on it and then try twist it with a small grips. They are all a cnut to get out but they can be done without breaking them.

mgsrocks

smileyscientist wrote: »

OP here, mechnic just rang with the same problem. Hes been trying to take the ss out but its stuck fast in there. Hes tried everything and is afraid to apply any more pressure in case it breaks apart and that would mean the gear box would have to come out. I gave the go ahead as we dont have any other option- it has to be changed.

Il pass on yr info but hes said hes tried eevrything but it just wont budge. This is turning in to a nightmare FAST:(

Thanks for the info OP. Can you let me know how much he charges? I was quoted €300 but he went to €250 when I refused to pay that much.

Ush1

Plug wrote: »

I take it he took the pin out. Next he'd be better of spraying oil on it and then try twist it with a small grips. They are all a cnut to get out but they can be done without breaking them.

Just O/T question for yourself Plug.

04 1.4 Ford Focus, is it normal for the edges of the alternater drive belt pulleys to be rough? Noticing a whistling noise when I rev the engine from that area.

Plug

Ush1 wrote: »

Just O/T question for yourself Plug.

04 1.4 Ford Focus, is it normal for the edges of the alternater drive belt pulleys to be rough? Noticing a whistling noise when I rev the engine from that area.

Rough? No. the edge of the gold part should be smooth if anything. Are you getting mixed up with the belt or the pulley?