Quoted and Actual Self Build costs in 2011 - Mod warning in Post No. 1

BryanF

Duffers11 wrote: »

Hi, thanks for your response. We have employed an architect throughout so I presume he is meant to provide all those drawings for us?? If he is then I can put the pressure on to get them as he is bit reluctant at times. My partner said he knows what he needs to do and what he needs but couldn't possibly list every essential! Could you recommend any cheap online QS cos think I need that to get the mortgage anyway. That aside, do you think it is possible on our budget from past experience?

if you've read this tread and are still asking whether you can build for your chosen budget then:

forget the on line qs.. ring around and get a few quotes, if your partner is in the trades he should have no trouble getting a list of names

re budget: its like people have said above. its the hidden extras and the time it takes out of your lives that will dictate whether you can do it for your selected budget.

like i said above why not get the a qs to price it and ask their opinion as following the bill of quantities they will be best placed to answer your question

sotobuild

Just got our build costs from our QS for a largish house with a double garage and workshop

overall - everything in €118
Builders finish - €102

• Substructure 10%
• Structure 15%
• Completions 14%
• of which
  • Windows 9%
• Finishs 15%
• Services 22%
• of wich
  • Heating 9%
  • Electrics 5%
• Garage & Workshop 7%
• External 12%
• Contractor preliminaries 5%
  

ECO_Mental

Is that his estimate or is that back from tenders?. You may as well post the size of your house as well or are you embarrassed;)

galwaytt

1chippy wrote: »

just to remind people. there is no such thing as free labour. in some way its going to cost.....There can be a false economy to doing work yourself too. there are often situations whereby someone who could for instance be earning 120 (just for arguments sake) and instead doing the work of a trade which may have only cost you 100

So true.

Duffers11 wrote: »

Thanks for your input but I know plenty of people have done it! I know it is going to be a long hard process but everyone is willing to chip in wherever possible, and we know that some days we might require extra paid help but in theory he will be doing all the block laying himself, all the roofing, insulating, plastering, inside work, carpentry etc. So hopefully it can be done, I'll be there to be the gofer wherever possible ha! He only has one day here and there work at the mo so more than likely he will be there alot of the time, also the site is right beside where we are currently living so that might be an incentive for him also?

BTDT myself too, on house #1. Didn't repeat it on house #2, years later, and hired a builder. Simply put, I can't have calls at work at 14:15 asking me to 'arrange a few more bags of cement/sand/..' etc. So the true self-builder is a very difficult path, and is not to be underestimated.

And, as 1chippy says, if you make more per hour than you would pay per hour to have the job done..........then by diy-ing it, you are actually losing out even more.

green apple.

HI GUYS.

JUST RECIEVED FULL PLANNING PERMISSION FOR A SITE IN LAOIS SENT HOUSE FOR TENDER. TWO STOREY 2600 SQ FT SIMPLE DESIGN. HIGH SPEC.

TENDERS RETURNED FROM 6 BUILDERS FOR TURN KEY FINISH.
EXTREAMLY HIGH PRICES AND HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIGHEST AND LOWEST QUOTE
RANGE BETWEEN 250,000 EURO AND 325,000 EURO INCLUDING VAT!
STILL IN SHOCK.

ANYONE THAT CAN OFFER SUGGESTIONS FOR THE REASON OR BUILDERS WILLING TO WORK FOR A REASONABLE PRICE PLEASE PM..

THANK YOU!!

sas

green apple. wrote: »

HI GUYS.

JUST RECIEVED FULL PLANNING PERMISSION FOR A SITE IN LAOIS SENT HOUSE FOR TENDER. TWO STOREY 2600 SQ FT SIMPLE DESIGN. HIGH SPEC.

TENDERS RETURNED FROM 6 BUILDERS FOR TURN KEY FINISH.
EXTREAMLY HIGH PRICES AND HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIGHEST AND LOWEST QUOTE
RANGE BETWEEN 250,000 EURO AND 325,000 EURO INCLUDING VAT!
STILL IN SHOCK.

ANYONE THAT CAN OFFER SUGGESTIONS FOR THE REASON OR BUILDERS WILLING TO WORK FOR A REASONABLE PRICE PLEASE PM..

THANK YOU!!

Still in shock from what exactly?

You specified a high spec turn key home and are surprised at those prices for some reason.

The vast majority of those coming on here saying they built for €50 per sq ft are using cash (non tax, non vat, non insured) tradesmen. They are in all likelihood not building to even meet the current building regs.

They have very modest specifications. They are moving in when the minimum of work is completed (i.e. not turn key).

Those people are also investing alot of their own time doing simpler more labour intensive jobs and sourcing materials.

My personal opinion is the 250k for what I would call a high spec turn key build (assuming you have a good builder) is a bargain.

ShiverinEskimo

€96 to €125 per square foot for high spec, turn-key finish?

Doesn't seem crazy.

galwaytt

green apple. wrote: »

HI GUYS.

JUST RECIEVED FULL PLANNING PERMISSION FOR A SITE IN LAOIS SENT HOUSE FOR TENDER. TWO STOREY 2600 SQ FT SIMPLE DESIGN. HIGH SPEC.

TENDERS RETURNED FROM 6 BUILDERS FOR TURN KEY FINISH.
EXTREAMLY HIGH PRICES AND HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIGHEST AND LOWEST QUOTE
RANGE BETWEEN 250,000 EURO AND 325,000 EURO INCLUDING VAT!
STILL IN SHOCK.

ANYONE THAT CAN OFFER SUGGESTIONS FOR THE REASON OR BUILDERS WILLING TO WORK FOR A REASONABLE PRICE PLEASE PM..

THANK YOU!!

As others have said - they ARE reasonable prices for high spec.

You have 2 choices: 1, lower spec, or, 2, smaller house. It's that simple.

Out of curiousity what price range did you expect to see ?

just do it

Green apple
+1 to sas and galwaytt comments

Try a turn key high spec finish from some of the prefab german companies and then you're into €2,000 to €2,500 per m2!

RKQ

galwaytt wrote: »

So true.




BTDT myself too, on house #1. Didn't repeat it on house #2, years later, and hired a builder. Simply put, I can't have calls at work at 14:15 asking me to 'arrange a few more bags of cement/sand/..' etc. So the true self-builder is a very difficult path, and is not to be underestimated.

And, as 1chippy says, if you make more per hour than you would pay per hour to have the job done..........then by diy-ing it, you are actually losing out even more.

Duffers11 I understand your excitment but I do agree 100% with galwaytt & 1chippy. Self-build doesn't save money as you the self-builer earns every cent by your labour. 1chippy has a good point about actually losing money doing it yourself.

Greenapple I have to agree with galwaytt again. "You have 2 choices: 1, lower spec, or, 2, smaller house. It's that simple".

galwaytt

just do it wrote: »

Green apple
+1 to sas and galwaytt comments

Try a turn key high spec finish from some of the prefab german companies and then you're into €2,000 to €2,500 per m2!

Indeed. In the UK, the houses we build here for 1k/m2 cost 1600/m2.

People here have yet to grasp the nettle of the true cost of (quality) building methinks.

Squirm

green apple. wrote: »

HI GUYS.

JUST RECIEVED FULL PLANNING PERMISSION FOR A SITE IN LAOIS SENT HOUSE FOR TENDER. TWO STOREY 2600 SQ FT SIMPLE DESIGN. HIGH SPEC.

TENDERS RETURNED FROM 6 BUILDERS FOR TURN KEY FINISH.
EXTREAMLY HIGH PRICES AND HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIGHEST AND LOWEST QUOTE
RANGE BETWEEN 250,000 EURO AND 325,000 EURO INCLUDING VAT!
STILL IN SHOCK.

ANYONE THAT CAN OFFER SUGGESTIONS FOR THE REASON OR BUILDERS WILLING TO WORK FOR A REASONABLE PRICE PLEASE PM..

THANK YOU!!

I really don't have a lot of experience with self-builds or the building trade in general, but I would have thought that 250k for a turn-key, high spec, 2600 sq foot house was really reasonable...??

We are building our house for E86 per sq foot and we are going high spec also. We have brought in a contractor and will be doing very little of the work ourselves. However, there will be some additional costs and we are talking about a smaller house in Dublin (close to the city). The only reason we got it as cheap as we did is because we (my father-in-law specifically) are building 5 houses, so the cost for each is lower.

What were you hoping to pay?

liamolaighin

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

we built a 2300 sq ft house in Meath in 2010.

it is a 1.5 storey,
concrete upstairs,
monocouche coloured render,
thrutone slates
UFH upstairs and downstairs
3 en suites plus main bathroom (all tiled floor to ceiling),
showers,
sanitary ware,
ceramic tiles throughout downstairs (hall, kitchen, utility, sunroom),
solid walnut kitchen with island and quartz worktop,
mdf units in utility
engineered walnut doors with high quality handles,
cobble lock patio,
vertical ground source geothermal heating (which we are thrilled with),
engineered walnut floor in sitting room, laminate flooring in bedroom,
aluclad windows (including large sunroom),
air tightness membrane.

garage and pillars at driveway to match house.

our actual build cost was about €300k. you can allow up to €20k for costs that are not house related. i always include them in my cost per sq ft figures because one way or another they have to be paid.

our cost per sq ft worked out quite high because we built a good sized (not a massive) house and finished to the highest spec possible. the only thing we skimped on was the laminate flooring in the bedroom.

we employed a local contractor who was the cheapest quote we got.

Edit: Windows and the source of your heat will have a massive impact on your overall cost!

Hi jus a quick question on your building spec if you dont mind sharing. I am also thinking of going with geothermal so I am obcessing a little about insulation at the moment. I was wondering if you did an insulated foundation? Also what type of construction did you use for the walls. I am thinking of doing an insulated foundation and then a 200mm pumped cavity dry-lined on the inside. However people have indicated it would make more sence to build a block on the flat with external insulation to completely eliminate cold bridging. Just curious. A lot depends on price at the end of the day...

ewanalex

I have posted on another thread somewhere about this but thought I would post here too as it may help someone.we are just about to embark on a 2600Sqf new build inc a double garage.

Concrete floors upstairs,
UPF heating throughout, OFCH
Fairly top spec insulation, this was the area we really didnt want to see cut.
1m width paths and kerbing around house
double glazed A rated uPVC windows
9 velux and 18 windows in total.
Stone finish to exterior.

W have had approx 4 quotes back so far from builder/contractors @ €226k which is coming in under €86 per sqf as it includes garage finished.

The 4 quotes are all coming in around the same quote. And i do believe we can negotiate further as these are all initial quotes based on our requested specification.

We have started quoting for inidvidual trades, for example weve had quotes for windows from Poland and home to try and see what areas we can reduce costs somewhat and there is defiantely savings to be made. But were getting complete builder finish quotes to begin with first and working our way back.

Hope this helps someone,

Were based in the midlands.

liamolaighin

ewanalex wrote: »

I have posted on another thread somewhere about this but thought I would post here too as it may help someone.we are just about to embark on a 2600Sqf new build inc a double garage.

Concrete floors upstairs,
UPF heating throughout, OFCH
Fairly top spec insulation, this was the area we really didnt want to see cut.
1m width paths and kerbing around house
double glazed A rated uPVC windows
9 velux and 18 windows in total.
Stone finish to exterior.

W have had approx 4 quotes back so far from builder/contractors @ €226k which is coming in under €86 per sqf as it includes garage finished.

The 4 quotes are all coming in around the same quote. And i do believe we can negotiate further as these are all initial quotes based on our requested specification.

We have started quoting for inidvidual trades, for example weve had quotes for windows from Poland and home to try and see what areas we can reduce costs somewhat and there is defiantely savings to be made. But were getting complete builder finish quotes to begin with first and working our way back.

Hope this helps someone,

Were based in the midlands.

Can I ask what you are planning on doing with your foundations and walls. What kind of a build and what level of insulation?

galwaytt

ewanalex wrote: »

I have posted on another thread somewhere about this but thought I would post here too as it may help someone.we are just about to embark on a 2600Sqf new build inc a double garage.

Concrete floors upstairs,
UPF heating throughout, OFCH
Fairly top spec insulation, this was the area we really didnt want to see cut.
1m width paths and kerbing around house
double glazed A rated uPVC windows
9 velux and 18 windows in total.
Stone finish to exterior.

W have had approx 4 quotes back so far from builder/contractors @ €226k which is coming in under €86 per sqf as it includes garage finished.

The 4 quotes are all coming in around the same quote. And i do believe we can negotiate further as these are all initial quotes based on our requested specification.

We have started quoting for inidvidual trades, for example weve had quotes for windows from Poland and home to try and see what areas we can reduce costs somewhat and there is defiantely savings to be made. But were getting complete builder finish quotes to begin with first and working our way back.

Hope this helps someone,

Were based in the midlands.

I don't see a spec in the above, in particular re: airtightness, u-values etc. On the face of it, 86 is a good price. But depends on the spec.

And, define A-rated windows - is this the glass, frame, and airtightness ?

muffler

muffler wrote: »

Please do not use this thread to ask for prices.

Cheers.

muffler wrote: »

Just a quick reminder (again) that this thread is for posting prices you have been quoted or prices you have paid for the various aspects of domestic construction. The thread is not to be used for looking for prices.

Having moved a couple of posts from this thread I will have to repeat myself again and ask people to post only the prices they have paid or are paying.

galwaytt

I saw a completed tender for a house today, west of Ireland, for a green-field build, of a 350 sq m house, c/w good windows, doors, HRV, UFH, Solar, Stove, sewage treatment plant, paths, some landscaping etc etc. All bar kitchen, sanitary ware and floor coverings. BER target is A3. Incl VAT, price came to €1025/sq m.

The sum of €42.5k+ in VAT alone is a real sickener though........less than 30 minutes away, across the border in N.I., there is no VAT. :mad:

Curious Geroge

galwaytt wrote: »

I saw a completed tender for a house today, west of Ireland, for a green-field build, of a 350 sq m house, c/w good windows, doors, HRV, UFH, Solar, Stove, sewage treatment plant, paths, some landscaping etc etc. All bar kitchen, sanitary ware and floor coverings. BER target is A3. Incl VAT, price came to €1025/sq m.

The sum of €42.5k+ in VAT alone is a real sickener though........less than 30 minutes away, across the border in N.I., there is no VAT. :mad:

This works out at 3767sq m or €95 sq m which seems like alot without the kitchen etc.. I could be totally wrong but I hope not since I'm hoping to build myself inside the next 12 months myself.

fclauson

galwaytt wrote: »

The sum of €42.5k+ in VAT alone is a real sickener though........less than 30 minutes away, across the border in N.I., there is no VAT. :mad:

But Galwaytt - in NI you would pay council tax - and that could be £2K to £3K per annum - so payback of 10 years

Keedowah

Anyone use this site to get an idea of costs?

http://www.planahome.ie

Or, even better - anyone used them?

BryanF

Keedowah wrote: »

Anyone use this site to get an idea of costs?

http://www.planahome.ie

Or, even better - anyone used them?

would you not go a couple of architects and get some advice and a few quotes to compare...

tippman79

Hi guys,
Just wondering is there much savings to be made going down the direct labour/self build road compared to just getting in one contractor. Looking a building a 2100 sq ft bungalow in South Tipp and could really only afford 75 euro per sq ft. Appreciate any advice.

BryanF

tippman79 wrote: »

Hi guys,
Just wondering is there much savings to be made going down the direct labour/self build road compared to just getting in one contractor. Looking a building a 2100 sq ft bungalow in South Tipp and could really only afford 75 euro per sq ft. Appreciate any advice.

depends on the amount of time and learning your willing to do..

there are people who have done it for that

and some of them have built to better standards than others;)

Lemlin

Just finished house in Cavan and it worked out at about €65 a square foot or €714 a square metre. That's not including the cost of the site as it's on family farm. It includes:

Engineered and semi solid flooring throughout whole house.
Character oak kitchen.
MHRV.
Geothermal underfloor heating throughout entire house.
Oak stairs and all doors, skirting etc. in oak.
Garage finished.
Tegral Rivendale slates on roof.
4 bathrooms fully finished.
Cavity pumped with 100ml beading.
50ml insulated slabs used on all external walls.
Plasterers did a scratch coat on walls before insulated slabs were applied.
Triple glazed windows.
Hallmark stone to the front of the house with granite quoins. The rest is a knap finish.
Granite window sills for all windows
Beam vacuum system
Certified spray foam insulation in all roof areas.
House fully painted.
All kitchen appliances and white goods purchased.
Garage fully finished.
Architect fees

Cost was helped by the fact that we have our own digger and my brother is a carpenter and did some of the work for family rates.

I found that the cost of some materials is rising alright but the cost of labour has come way down.

pcooney

Great price, have you got any photos.

What kind of Kitchen and what make MHRV did you go with.

PM me if not allowed to answer those questions on forum.

Lemlin

pcooney wrote: »

Great price, have you got any photos.

What kind of Kitchen and what make MHRV did you go with.

PM me if not allowed to answer those questions on forum.

I'm attaching a picture I have from back in December 2009. It's the only picture I have here in work and shows the outside of the house just before the sun room roof was finished.

The MHRV is a Brink system. Ducting is flexible and not rigid but I priced both and didn't think the difference in performance was worth the extra cash. Brink didn't install it though. The same company did the geothermal, underfloor and MHRV.

The kitchen is casa compagna character oak. Local fitter from Monaghan did it.

mmc2010

Hi Lemlin, it really is a lovely house and sounds like you've it beautifully finished to a high standard. I guess you did it all by direct labour. Would you recommend doing it by direct labour? Did you use a project manager or quantity surveyor or similar to help you manage the build?

Lemlin

mmc2010 wrote: »

Hi Lemlin, it really is a lovely house and sounds like you've it beautifully finished to a high standard. I guess you did it all by direct labour. Would you recommend doing it by direct labour? Did you use a project manager or quantity surveyor or similar to help you manage the build?

My brother has a good knowledge of building as he has been a carpenter for the last 15 years. He helped alot with the work. Having a digger and tractors on our farm was also a great help. We also had plenty of shale from the farm too for filling in.

I didn't use a surveyor. Just used the architect to oversee the build.

There's alot of stress in direct labour to be honest. I was also lucky that my father and another brother were always near the farm to let people in/out etc. and keep an eye on things. Don't think I would have got through it without their help.

I got plenty of prices on everything. Windows, for example, I got 8 different quotes and went with the one which provided the best quality/cost. The same for the geothermal and HRV system. I got at least six quotes off different companies, if not more. It's handy when I'm in work and can just email off the plans.

One tip I'd say for people is that agricultural shows are great. I got more info at Virginia show than I got at the Ideal Homes or Self Build Expo!

Also, keep an eye out for warehouse and liquidation sales. My bathroom stuff was sitting in my brother's house 18 months. Furniture has been there since February and we moved in in September. If you know you're going to need the stuff and its at rock bottom prices, buy it and store it.

just do it

tippman79 wrote: »

Hi guys,
Just wondering is there much savings to be made going down the direct labour/self build road compared to just getting in one contractor. Looking a building a 2100 sq ft bungalow in South Tipp and could really only afford 75 euro per sq ft. Appreciate any advice.

For a start read the sticky thread "the house that boards built".