Quoted and Actual Self Build costs in 2011 - Mod warning in Post No. 1

pcooney

galwaytt wrote: »

I don't see any Airtightness and I don't see any VAT.

If you get A2 on the simple figures above, you have done well. Better than well in fact.

sas wrote: »

I will make no assumptions but will state that if you manage to pull this off with Tax and Vat paying tradesmen then you will have achieved some to be proud of.

As it stands based on a previous post, I take it that you can't be that far along. These are therefore budgetting prices.

I've omitted things I can't comment on but here are some thoughts



This includes?
(a) Site Clearance
(b) Disposal of subsoil
(c) Digging of foundations
(d) Supply and install of concrete and any required reinforcement
(e) Radon membrane and sump
(f) Floor insulation
(g) Floor slab
(h) Potential screed

Only material costs here as brother is doing all this for me.


I don't believe "625 Extras" will cover:
(a) Sand
(b) Cement
(c) Plasticizer\Morticizier (I always mix these up in terms of which is for plastering or block laying)
(d) Wall ties
(e) DPCs

You could be quite right here, I have not got quotes for this so this could increase quite a bit, but fact that brother is in trade we are getting virtually all materials cost price. (VAT included).


I have no idea how much glazing you have so this is a difficult one. I would
suggest that you're not getting a quality triple glazed window for that money however.

We dont have that much glazing, prices from MJ, WGlaze and Sen all within Eur 600 of that price.

Is this for inside and outside?
Plaster slabbing of ceilings (materials and labour)?

We are doing slabbing of Ceilings ourselves

Light fittings included?
If you achieve this you have a very modest specification

Nice and simple nothing fancy need to keep costs low.


This seems achievable



Labour appears too low for a bungalow (and hence roof) the size of yours.

Carpenter is close friend and doing cost price, so getting Materials and labour at 13.5 VAT, helps keep costs down.


With respect, you must have specified some very cheap doors\handles\hinges etc in order to achieve this

Again cost price here, but will probably go for better quality if everything else is coming close to quoted prices.

Materials only I assume. Inside and outside?
Yes painting is materials only, we have a sprayer and will do most before door frames etc go in.


What about
(a) Driveways Just gravel at moment, will eventually tarmac
(b) Pathways No paths, too tight for drive around house, will tarmac up to house eventually.
(c) Wing walls (may have been covered in blocklaying) Covered in blocklaying
(d) Any planting that is mandated in your planning (I've to plant 40 semi mature native trees for example. Site is surronded on 2 1/2 side by mature trees, lucky there, will need to plant some more but not factored in
(e) Airtightness materials and installation (you can omit the HRV if you omit these) I was told we only need to tape up windows etc is there more involved if yes any idea where to get more info. Dont want to spend 5000 on hrv if airtightness not good.
(f) Blowerdoor test Being done by friend a BER assessor, I help him out with business he helps me with BER and energy etc
(g) Scaffolding Have some from brothers building, only year ago.
(h) Soffit, Fascia, Guttering, Downpipes

Not included, forgot completely.


Really appreciate all the time you spent, would appreciate any further feedback, is there anywhere i should re-visit.
Only at foundations, will update prices as they are paid and finished. Blockie is only person I dont know but came highly recommended (yes tax and VAT compliant) other trades will be done by myself, brother or close friends, friends will be paid cost price and VAT, whether they pay tax, i cant say, but VAT included in their quotes anyway..

galwaytt

pcooney wrote: »

(e) Airtightness materials and installation (you can omit the HRV if you omit these) I was told we only need to tape up windows etc is there more involved if yes any idea where to get more info. Dont want to spend 5000 on hrv if airtightness not good.

IMHO, you should not put in HRV without an airtightness programme, and no, taping door & window connections is nowhere near sufficient, and you're right, you'll have wasted 5k.

You might as well just put in 100mm hit & miss grille's and keep the 5k for something else.

Which brings us back to your energy rating - what airtightness have you been guaranteed, and what was asssumed in your BER ?

sas

The reason I'm trying to help here is that I'm I've my structure and we're moving on services now and I can assure you the small things are costing alot more than my finger in the air estimate (what can sand cost for example, sure it comes out of the ground ). I don't work in the trade so I've had more than a few price surprises.

On the airtightness, I will assume that you are insulating your attic on the flat.

Therefore you will need an airtightness membrane on the ceilings everywhere stapled to the underside of the ceiling joists. You will then require a service cavity within which to run your cabling etc. This detailing requires planning i.e. get it planned now.

Fitting airtightness materials is time consuming, really time consuming. Factor that into your schedule.

In my opinion it's worth every cent on airtightness.

You also need to factor in an airtight attic hatch. They are around 1k.

One thing I do have to ask, how are you getting materials at cost price because you've familly members in the trade? The vast majority of building material purchasers are in the trade. Unless they happen to own a builders providers there is no way you're getting cost price.

Who is supervising\signing off your build? Given the number of friends and familly involved I think you'd be well served to have someone completely independent involved to ensure that when things are done incorrectly it's pointed out.

sydthebeat

pcooney wrote: »

Bungalow of 2400 sq ft
___________________

Foundations = 15,000
Blocks 7000 @ Eur 430/1000 = 3,000
BLock Layer 50c per block (6750) = 3,375
Extras = 625
Cavity Bead Insulation (150mm) = 1,750
Roof Insulation (300mm) = 2,200
Triple glazed windows and doors = 8,000
Plastering (Materials and labour) =12,000
Electrical (Materials and labour) = 5,500
Plumbing Materials = 7,000
Plumbing Labour = 4,000
Roofing Labour = 5,000
Roofing Materials =15,000
Internal doors (Materials and Labour) = 4,500
Solar (30 Tube) = 5,500
HRV = 4,750
sewage Treatment system = 6,000
Painting = 1,500
Insurance (Self-build) = 750
Kitchen = 5,500
Council Fees = 2,000
Lawyer = 2,500
water (Well) = 2,500
ESB Connection = 1,800

---

TOTAL = 115,000


Price per sq ft comes in at Eur 48.
BER provisional A3 rating might possibly get A2, but maybe not.

Am I missing anything major there ???

all internal finishes? tiling? flooring?
sanitary fittings? all materials and labour will definitely not be covered in your plumbing quote.. unless its discount material and free labour
fire surround?
ironmongry?
electrical material and labour ridiculously short for a 2400 build, id envisage triple that quote?
is that well quote just for drilling? what about pump and housing?
floor insulation?
concrete pour? reinforcement?
chimney flue and pots?
external groundworks? foul and storm? soakaways?

Duffers11

pcooney wrote: »

1chippy wrote: »

sorry for being negative but i dont believe it can be done for that materials on any house will eat up the majority of that

Bungalow of 2400 sq ft
___________________

Foundations = 15,000
Blocks 7000 @ Eur 430/1000 = 3,000
BLock Layer 50c per block (6750) = 3,375
Extras = 625
Cavity Bead Insulation (150mm) = 1,750
Roof Insulation (300mm) = 2,200
Triple glazed windows and doors = 8,000
Plastering (Materials and labour) =12,000
Electrical (Materials and labour) = 5,500
Plumbing Materials = 7,000
Plumbing Labour = 4,000
Roofing Labour = 5,000
Roofing Materials =15,000
Internal doors (Materials and Labour) = 4,500
Solar (30 Tube) = 5,500
HRV = 4,750
sewage Treatment system = 6,000
Painting = 1,500
Insurance (Self-build) = 750
Kitchen = 5,500
Council Fees = 2,000
Lawyer = 2,500
water (Well) = 2,500
ESB Connection = 1,800

---

TOTAL = 115,000


Price per sq ft comes in at Eur 48.
BER provisional A3 rating might possibly get A2, but maybe

Hi, to begin with I wouldn't have a clue of the building side of things as a female — but myself and partner will hopefully be commencing a new build shortly. It's a 2500 sq ft bungalow in Wicklow, fairly standard L shape with 2 gables to the front with floor to ceiling glass. I would like a highish spec finish but realise that it more of a dream although I do intend to purchase weekly out of salary as well as mortgage so maybe some items will be achievable. Anyway my partner is a builder, roofer, everything really and he is doing all the work himself so there is no labour costs at all, we can get friends that are plumbers nd electricians to help us out that end. As we can only get a mortgage on one income, I've budgeted 130k to build the house, the site is being gifted. Bear in mind the majority of the labour is free so my question is, is it achievable for the materials to be covered in my budget?? Thanks a mill.

Squirm

We are building a 1609 sq foot, 2.5 storey, semi-d in Clontarf at the moment. We obtained the site just before Christmas and it has taken us until a fortnight ago to get planning permission, to find a contractor and to submit all paperwork etc in relation to the planning requirements blah blah blah. There is a lot of red tape! Had no idea how long the process could drag on for, even after planning permission had been granted.

We begin excavating the foundations on Monday and have spent the past fortnight demolishing the existing structures on the site and levelling the land.

We have negotiated a fixed build price with our contractor and have kept our architect on to project manage the build. So it isn't a 'self-build' per say! We are paying E84 per sq foot and we are going high spec. The design includes a lot of glass, including a large window to the front, spanning the first two storeys and, a wall of glass on the third storey, opening on to a balcony. The build includes kitchen and bathrooms (three bath) but only up to a certain cost, if we opt for a high spec kitchen etc etc we will pay extra for that ourselves and supply those materials.

The estimated end 'date' is March 2012.... Roll on the New Year!!!

BryanF

Duffers11 wrote: »

Hi, to begin with I wouldn't have a clue of the building side of things as a female — but myself and partner will hopefully be commencing a new build shortly. It's a 2500 sq ft bungalow in Wicklow, fairly standard L shape with 2 gables to the front with floor to ceiling glass. I would like a highish spec finish but realise that it more of a dream although I do intend to purchase weekly out of salary as well as mortgage so maybe some items will be achievable. Anyway my partner is a builder, roofer, everything really and he is doing all the work himself so there is no labour costs at all, we can get friends that are plumbers nd electricians to help us out that end. As we can only get a mortgage on one income, I've budgeted 130k to build the house, the site is being gifted. Bear in mind the majority of the labour is free so my question is, is it achievable for the materials to be covered in my budget?? Thanks a mill.

get a qs OR your partner to do a bill of quantities, then you can price the materials (and labour separately as required). I would also recommend you get a good set of construction drawings, schedules, details and mechanical and electrical layouts done, Especially as you intend using free labour. Free labour means its hard to criticise people if work is done incorrectly or half ass'd (not suggesting this will happen but), a good set of drawings keeps things straight forward and helps to raise the major issues long before you start on site.

1chippy

just to remind people. there is no such thing as free labour. in some way its going to cost.
not to put a downer on anybody who is going to build to build a house completly on their own. it wont happen. the mere no. of man hours involved mean any tradesman would have to pack in his own job for years just to get it built. progress is ten times slower for a no. of reasons but the main two being: 1 any given trade taken from their own comfort zone will spend ages just adapting to other aspects of the build. 2. motivation; try getting up for the second month of seven day weeks just to go down to a job on your own where you will spend the whole day listening to the radio where other people are having normal working lives.
tried it and starting another one, this time i,m under no illusion as to what i'll be doing.
There can be a false economy to doing work yourself too. there are often situations whereby someone who could for instance be earning 120 (just for arguments sake) and instead doing the work of a trade which may have only cost you 100

Duffers11

1chippy wrote: »

just to remind people. there is no such thing as free labour. in some way its going to cost.
not to put a downer on anybody who is going to build to build a house completly on their own. it wont happen. the mere no. of man hours involved mean any tradesman would have to pack in his own job for years just to get it built. progress is ten times slower for a no. of reasons but the main two being: 1 any given trade taken from their own comfort zone will spend ages just adapting to other aspects of the build. 2. motivation; try getting up for the second month of seven day weeks just to go down to a job on your own where you will spend the whole day listening to the radio where other people are having normal working lives.
tried it and starting another one, this time i,m under no illusion as to what i'll be doing.
There can be a false economy to doing work yourself too. there are often situations whereby someone who could for instance be earning 120 (just for arguments sake) and instead doing the work of a trade which may have only cost you 100

Thanks for your input but I know plenty of people have done it! I know it is going to be a long hard process but everyone is willing to chip in wherever possible, and we know that some days we might require extra paid help but in theory he will be doing all the block laying himself, all the roofing, insulating, plastering, inside work, carpentry etc. So hopefully it can be done, I'll be there to be the gofer wherever possible ha! He only has one day here and there work at the mo so more than likely he will be there alot of the time, also the site is right beside where we are currently living so that might be an incentive for him also?

Duffers11

BryanF wrote: »

Duffers11 wrote: »

Hi, to begin with I wouldn't have a clue of the building side of things as a female — but myself and partner will hopefully be commencing a new build shortly. It's a 2500 sq ft bungalow in Wicklow, fairly standard L shape with 2 gables to the front with floor to ceiling glass. I would like a highish spec finish but realise that it more of a dream although I do intend to purchase weekly out of salary as well as mortgage so maybe some items will be achievable. Anyway my partner is a builder, roofer, everything really and he is doing all the work himself so there is no labour costs at all, we can get friends that are plumbers nd electricians to help us out that end. As we can only get a mortgage on one income, I've budgeted 130k to build the house, the site is being gifted. Bear in mind the majority of the labour is free so my question is, is it achievable for the materials to be covered in my budget?? Thanks a mill.

get a qs OR your partner to do a bill of quantities, then you can price the materials (and labour separately as required). I would also recommend you get a good set of construction drawings, schedules, details and mechanical and electrical layouts done, Especially as you intend using free labour. Free labour means its hard to criticise people if work is done incorrectly or half ass'd (not suggesting this will happen but), a good set of drawings keeps things straight forward and helps to raise the major issues long before you start on site.

Hi, thanks for your response. We have employed an architect throughout so I presume he is meant to provide all those drawings for us?? If he is then I can put the pressure on to get them as he is bit reluctant at times. My partner said he knows what he needs to do and what he needs but couldn't possibly list every essential! Could you recommend any cheap online QS cos think I need that to get the mortgage anyway. That aside, do you think it is possible on our budget from past experience?

BryanF

Duffers11 wrote: »

Hi, thanks for your response. We have employed an architect throughout so I presume he is meant to provide all those drawings for us?? If he is then I can put the pressure on to get them as he is bit reluctant at times. My partner said he knows what he needs to do and what he needs but couldn't possibly list every essential! Could you recommend any cheap online QS cos think I need that to get the mortgage anyway. That aside, do you think it is possible on our budget from past experience?

if you've read this tread and are still asking whether you can build for your chosen budget then:

forget the on line qs.. ring around and get a few quotes, if your partner is in the trades he should have no trouble getting a list of names

re budget: its like people have said above. its the hidden extras and the time it takes out of your lives that will dictate whether you can do it for your selected budget.

like i said above why not get the a qs to price it and ask their opinion as following the bill of quantities they will be best placed to answer your question

sotobuild

Just got our build costs from our QS for a largish house with a double garage and workshop

overall - everything in €118
Builders finish - €102

• Substructure 10%
• Structure 15%
• Completions 14%
• of which
  • Windows 9%
• Finishs 15%
• Services 22%
• of wich
  • Heating 9%
  • Electrics 5%
• Garage & Workshop 7%
• External 12%
• Contractor preliminaries 5%
  

ECO_Mental

Is that his estimate or is that back from tenders?. You may as well post the size of your house as well or are you embarrassed;)

galwaytt

1chippy wrote: »

just to remind people. there is no such thing as free labour. in some way its going to cost.....There can be a false economy to doing work yourself too. there are often situations whereby someone who could for instance be earning 120 (just for arguments sake) and instead doing the work of a trade which may have only cost you 100

So true.

Duffers11 wrote: »

Thanks for your input but I know plenty of people have done it! I know it is going to be a long hard process but everyone is willing to chip in wherever possible, and we know that some days we might require extra paid help but in theory he will be doing all the block laying himself, all the roofing, insulating, plastering, inside work, carpentry etc. So hopefully it can be done, I'll be there to be the gofer wherever possible ha! He only has one day here and there work at the mo so more than likely he will be there alot of the time, also the site is right beside where we are currently living so that might be an incentive for him also?

BTDT myself too, on house #1. Didn't repeat it on house #2, years later, and hired a builder. Simply put, I can't have calls at work at 14:15 asking me to 'arrange a few more bags of cement/sand/..' etc. So the true self-builder is a very difficult path, and is not to be underestimated.

And, as 1chippy says, if you make more per hour than you would pay per hour to have the job done..........then by diy-ing it, you are actually losing out even more.

green apple.

HI GUYS.

JUST RECIEVED FULL PLANNING PERMISSION FOR A SITE IN LAOIS SENT HOUSE FOR TENDER. TWO STOREY 2600 SQ FT SIMPLE DESIGN. HIGH SPEC.

TENDERS RETURNED FROM 6 BUILDERS FOR TURN KEY FINISH.
EXTREAMLY HIGH PRICES AND HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIGHEST AND LOWEST QUOTE
RANGE BETWEEN 250,000 EURO AND 325,000 EURO INCLUDING VAT!
STILL IN SHOCK.

ANYONE THAT CAN OFFER SUGGESTIONS FOR THE REASON OR BUILDERS WILLING TO WORK FOR A REASONABLE PRICE PLEASE PM..

THANK YOU!!

sas

green apple. wrote: »

HI GUYS.

JUST RECIEVED FULL PLANNING PERMISSION FOR A SITE IN LAOIS SENT HOUSE FOR TENDER. TWO STOREY 2600 SQ FT SIMPLE DESIGN. HIGH SPEC.

TENDERS RETURNED FROM 6 BUILDERS FOR TURN KEY FINISH.
EXTREAMLY HIGH PRICES AND HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIGHEST AND LOWEST QUOTE
RANGE BETWEEN 250,000 EURO AND 325,000 EURO INCLUDING VAT!
STILL IN SHOCK.

ANYONE THAT CAN OFFER SUGGESTIONS FOR THE REASON OR BUILDERS WILLING TO WORK FOR A REASONABLE PRICE PLEASE PM..

THANK YOU!!

Still in shock from what exactly?

You specified a high spec turn key home and are surprised at those prices for some reason.

The vast majority of those coming on here saying they built for €50 per sq ft are using cash (non tax, non vat, non insured) tradesmen. They are in all likelihood not building to even meet the current building regs.

They have very modest specifications. They are moving in when the minimum of work is completed (i.e. not turn key).

Those people are also investing alot of their own time doing simpler more labour intensive jobs and sourcing materials.

My personal opinion is the 250k for what I would call a high spec turn key build (assuming you have a good builder) is a bargain.

ShiverinEskimo

€96 to €125 per square foot for high spec, turn-key finish?

Doesn't seem crazy.

galwaytt

green apple. wrote: »

HI GUYS.

JUST RECIEVED FULL PLANNING PERMISSION FOR A SITE IN LAOIS SENT HOUSE FOR TENDER. TWO STOREY 2600 SQ FT SIMPLE DESIGN. HIGH SPEC.

TENDERS RETURNED FROM 6 BUILDERS FOR TURN KEY FINISH.
EXTREAMLY HIGH PRICES AND HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIGHEST AND LOWEST QUOTE
RANGE BETWEEN 250,000 EURO AND 325,000 EURO INCLUDING VAT!
STILL IN SHOCK.

ANYONE THAT CAN OFFER SUGGESTIONS FOR THE REASON OR BUILDERS WILLING TO WORK FOR A REASONABLE PRICE PLEASE PM..

THANK YOU!!

As others have said - they ARE reasonable prices for high spec.

You have 2 choices: 1, lower spec, or, 2, smaller house. It's that simple.

Out of curiousity what price range did you expect to see ?

just do it

Green apple
+1 to sas and galwaytt comments

Try a turn key high spec finish from some of the prefab german companies and then you're into €2,000 to €2,500 per m2!

RKQ

galwaytt wrote: »

So true.




BTDT myself too, on house #1. Didn't repeat it on house #2, years later, and hired a builder. Simply put, I can't have calls at work at 14:15 asking me to 'arrange a few more bags of cement/sand/..' etc. So the true self-builder is a very difficult path, and is not to be underestimated.

And, as 1chippy says, if you make more per hour than you would pay per hour to have the job done..........then by diy-ing it, you are actually losing out even more.

Duffers11 I understand your excitment but I do agree 100% with galwaytt & 1chippy. Self-build doesn't save money as you the self-builer earns every cent by your labour. 1chippy has a good point about actually losing money doing it yourself.

Greenapple I have to agree with galwaytt again. "You have 2 choices: 1, lower spec, or, 2, smaller house. It's that simple".

galwaytt

just do it wrote: »

Green apple
+1 to sas and galwaytt comments

Try a turn key high spec finish from some of the prefab german companies and then you're into €2,000 to €2,500 per m2!

Indeed. In the UK, the houses we build here for 1k/m2 cost 1600/m2.

People here have yet to grasp the nettle of the true cost of (quality) building methinks.

Squirm

green apple. wrote: »

HI GUYS.

JUST RECIEVED FULL PLANNING PERMISSION FOR A SITE IN LAOIS SENT HOUSE FOR TENDER. TWO STOREY 2600 SQ FT SIMPLE DESIGN. HIGH SPEC.

TENDERS RETURNED FROM 6 BUILDERS FOR TURN KEY FINISH.
EXTREAMLY HIGH PRICES AND HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIGHEST AND LOWEST QUOTE
RANGE BETWEEN 250,000 EURO AND 325,000 EURO INCLUDING VAT!
STILL IN SHOCK.

ANYONE THAT CAN OFFER SUGGESTIONS FOR THE REASON OR BUILDERS WILLING TO WORK FOR A REASONABLE PRICE PLEASE PM..

THANK YOU!!

I really don't have a lot of experience with self-builds or the building trade in general, but I would have thought that 250k for a turn-key, high spec, 2600 sq foot house was really reasonable...??

We are building our house for E86 per sq foot and we are going high spec also. We have brought in a contractor and will be doing very little of the work ourselves. However, there will be some additional costs and we are talking about a smaller house in Dublin (close to the city). The only reason we got it as cheap as we did is because we (my father-in-law specifically) are building 5 houses, so the cost for each is lower.

What were you hoping to pay?

liamolaighin

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

we built a 2300 sq ft house in Meath in 2010.

it is a 1.5 storey,
concrete upstairs,
monocouche coloured render,
thrutone slates
UFH upstairs and downstairs
3 en suites plus main bathroom (all tiled floor to ceiling),
showers,
sanitary ware,
ceramic tiles throughout downstairs (hall, kitchen, utility, sunroom),
solid walnut kitchen with island and quartz worktop,
mdf units in utility
engineered walnut doors with high quality handles,
cobble lock patio,
vertical ground source geothermal heating (which we are thrilled with),
engineered walnut floor in sitting room, laminate flooring in bedroom,
aluclad windows (including large sunroom),
air tightness membrane.

garage and pillars at driveway to match house.

our actual build cost was about €300k. you can allow up to €20k for costs that are not house related. i always include them in my cost per sq ft figures because one way or another they have to be paid.

our cost per sq ft worked out quite high because we built a good sized (not a massive) house and finished to the highest spec possible. the only thing we skimped on was the laminate flooring in the bedroom.

we employed a local contractor who was the cheapest quote we got.

Edit: Windows and the source of your heat will have a massive impact on your overall cost!

Hi jus a quick question on your building spec if you dont mind sharing. I am also thinking of going with geothermal so I am obcessing a little about insulation at the moment. I was wondering if you did an insulated foundation? Also what type of construction did you use for the walls. I am thinking of doing an insulated foundation and then a 200mm pumped cavity dry-lined on the inside. However people have indicated it would make more sence to build a block on the flat with external insulation to completely eliminate cold bridging. Just curious. A lot depends on price at the end of the day...

ewanalex

I have posted on another thread somewhere about this but thought I would post here too as it may help someone.we are just about to embark on a 2600Sqf new build inc a double garage.

Concrete floors upstairs,
UPF heating throughout, OFCH
Fairly top spec insulation, this was the area we really didnt want to see cut.
1m width paths and kerbing around house
double glazed A rated uPVC windows
9 velux and 18 windows in total.
Stone finish to exterior.

W have had approx 4 quotes back so far from builder/contractors @ €226k which is coming in under €86 per sqf as it includes garage finished.

The 4 quotes are all coming in around the same quote. And i do believe we can negotiate further as these are all initial quotes based on our requested specification.

We have started quoting for inidvidual trades, for example weve had quotes for windows from Poland and home to try and see what areas we can reduce costs somewhat and there is defiantely savings to be made. But were getting complete builder finish quotes to begin with first and working our way back.

Hope this helps someone,

Were based in the midlands.

liamolaighin

ewanalex wrote: »

I have posted on another thread somewhere about this but thought I would post here too as it may help someone.we are just about to embark on a 2600Sqf new build inc a double garage.

Concrete floors upstairs,
UPF heating throughout, OFCH
Fairly top spec insulation, this was the area we really didnt want to see cut.
1m width paths and kerbing around house
double glazed A rated uPVC windows
9 velux and 18 windows in total.
Stone finish to exterior.

W have had approx 4 quotes back so far from builder/contractors @ €226k which is coming in under €86 per sqf as it includes garage finished.

The 4 quotes are all coming in around the same quote. And i do believe we can negotiate further as these are all initial quotes based on our requested specification.

We have started quoting for inidvidual trades, for example weve had quotes for windows from Poland and home to try and see what areas we can reduce costs somewhat and there is defiantely savings to be made. But were getting complete builder finish quotes to begin with first and working our way back.

Hope this helps someone,

Were based in the midlands.

Can I ask what you are planning on doing with your foundations and walls. What kind of a build and what level of insulation?

galwaytt

ewanalex wrote: »

I have posted on another thread somewhere about this but thought I would post here too as it may help someone.we are just about to embark on a 2600Sqf new build inc a double garage.

Concrete floors upstairs,
UPF heating throughout, OFCH
Fairly top spec insulation, this was the area we really didnt want to see cut.
1m width paths and kerbing around house
double glazed A rated uPVC windows
9 velux and 18 windows in total.
Stone finish to exterior.

W have had approx 4 quotes back so far from builder/contractors @ €226k which is coming in under €86 per sqf as it includes garage finished.

The 4 quotes are all coming in around the same quote. And i do believe we can negotiate further as these are all initial quotes based on our requested specification.

We have started quoting for inidvidual trades, for example weve had quotes for windows from Poland and home to try and see what areas we can reduce costs somewhat and there is defiantely savings to be made. But were getting complete builder finish quotes to begin with first and working our way back.

Hope this helps someone,

Were based in the midlands.

I don't see a spec in the above, in particular re: airtightness, u-values etc. On the face of it, 86 is a good price. But depends on the spec.

And, define A-rated windows - is this the glass, frame, and airtightness ?

muffler

muffler wrote: »

Please do not use this thread to ask for prices.

Cheers.

muffler wrote: »

Just a quick reminder (again) that this thread is for posting prices you have been quoted or prices you have paid for the various aspects of domestic construction. The thread is not to be used for looking for prices.

Having moved a couple of posts from this thread I will have to repeat myself again and ask people to post only the prices they have paid or are paying.

galwaytt

I saw a completed tender for a house today, west of Ireland, for a green-field build, of a 350 sq m house, c/w good windows, doors, HRV, UFH, Solar, Stove, sewage treatment plant, paths, some landscaping etc etc. All bar kitchen, sanitary ware and floor coverings. BER target is A3. Incl VAT, price came to €1025/sq m.

The sum of €42.5k+ in VAT alone is a real sickener though........less than 30 minutes away, across the border in N.I., there is no VAT. :mad:

Curious Geroge

galwaytt wrote: »

I saw a completed tender for a house today, west of Ireland, for a green-field build, of a 350 sq m house, c/w good windows, doors, HRV, UFH, Solar, Stove, sewage treatment plant, paths, some landscaping etc etc. All bar kitchen, sanitary ware and floor coverings. BER target is A3. Incl VAT, price came to €1025/sq m.

The sum of €42.5k+ in VAT alone is a real sickener though........less than 30 minutes away, across the border in N.I., there is no VAT. :mad:

This works out at 3767sq m or €95 sq m which seems like alot without the kitchen etc.. I could be totally wrong but I hope not since I'm hoping to build myself inside the next 12 months myself.

fclauson

galwaytt wrote: »

The sum of €42.5k+ in VAT alone is a real sickener though........less than 30 minutes away, across the border in N.I., there is no VAT. :mad:

But Galwaytt - in NI you would pay council tax - and that could be £2K to £3K per annum - so payback of 10 years

Keedowah

Anyone use this site to get an idea of costs?

http://www.planahome.ie

Or, even better - anyone used them?

BryanF

Keedowah wrote: »

Anyone use this site to get an idea of costs?

http://www.planahome.ie

Or, even better - anyone used them?

would you not go a couple of architects and get some advice and a few quotes to compare...

tippman79

Hi guys,
Just wondering is there much savings to be made going down the direct labour/self build road compared to just getting in one contractor. Looking a building a 2100 sq ft bungalow in South Tipp and could really only afford 75 euro per sq ft. Appreciate any advice.

BryanF

tippman79 wrote: »

Hi guys,
Just wondering is there much savings to be made going down the direct labour/self build road compared to just getting in one contractor. Looking a building a 2100 sq ft bungalow in South Tipp and could really only afford 75 euro per sq ft. Appreciate any advice.

depends on the amount of time and learning your willing to do..

there are people who have done it for that

and some of them have built to better standards than others;)

Lemlin

Just finished house in Cavan and it worked out at about €65 a square foot or €714 a square metre. That's not including the cost of the site as it's on family farm. It includes:

Engineered and semi solid flooring throughout whole house.
Character oak kitchen.
MHRV.
Geothermal underfloor heating throughout entire house.
Oak stairs and all doors, skirting etc. in oak.
Garage finished.
Tegral Rivendale slates on roof.
4 bathrooms fully finished.
Cavity pumped with 100ml beading.
50ml insulated slabs used on all external walls.
Plasterers did a scratch coat on walls before insulated slabs were applied.
Triple glazed windows.
Hallmark stone to the front of the house with granite quoins. The rest is a knap finish.
Granite window sills for all windows
Beam vacuum system
Certified spray foam insulation in all roof areas.
House fully painted.
All kitchen appliances and white goods purchased.
Garage fully finished.
Architect fees

Cost was helped by the fact that we have our own digger and my brother is a carpenter and did some of the work for family rates.

I found that the cost of some materials is rising alright but the cost of labour has come way down.

pcooney

Great price, have you got any photos.

What kind of Kitchen and what make MHRV did you go with.

PM me if not allowed to answer those questions on forum.

Lemlin

pcooney wrote: »

Great price, have you got any photos.

What kind of Kitchen and what make MHRV did you go with.

PM me if not allowed to answer those questions on forum.

I'm attaching a picture I have from back in December 2009. It's the only picture I have here in work and shows the outside of the house just before the sun room roof was finished.

The MHRV is a Brink system. Ducting is flexible and not rigid but I priced both and didn't think the difference in performance was worth the extra cash. Brink didn't install it though. The same company did the geothermal, underfloor and MHRV.

The kitchen is casa compagna character oak. Local fitter from Monaghan did it.

mmc2010

Hi Lemlin, it really is a lovely house and sounds like you've it beautifully finished to a high standard. I guess you did it all by direct labour. Would you recommend doing it by direct labour? Did you use a project manager or quantity surveyor or similar to help you manage the build?

Lemlin

mmc2010 wrote: »

Hi Lemlin, it really is a lovely house and sounds like you've it beautifully finished to a high standard. I guess you did it all by direct labour. Would you recommend doing it by direct labour? Did you use a project manager or quantity surveyor or similar to help you manage the build?

My brother has a good knowledge of building as he has been a carpenter for the last 15 years. He helped alot with the work. Having a digger and tractors on our farm was also a great help. We also had plenty of shale from the farm too for filling in.

I didn't use a surveyor. Just used the architect to oversee the build.

There's alot of stress in direct labour to be honest. I was also lucky that my father and another brother were always near the farm to let people in/out etc. and keep an eye on things. Don't think I would have got through it without their help.

I got plenty of prices on everything. Windows, for example, I got 8 different quotes and went with the one which provided the best quality/cost. The same for the geothermal and HRV system. I got at least six quotes off different companies, if not more. It's handy when I'm in work and can just email off the plans.

One tip I'd say for people is that agricultural shows are great. I got more info at Virginia show than I got at the Ideal Homes or Self Build Expo!

Also, keep an eye out for warehouse and liquidation sales. My bathroom stuff was sitting in my brother's house 18 months. Furniture has been there since February and we moved in in September. If you know you're going to need the stuff and its at rock bottom prices, buy it and store it.

just do it

tippman79 wrote: »

Hi guys,
Just wondering is there much savings to be made going down the direct labour/self build road compared to just getting in one contractor. Looking a building a 2100 sq ft bungalow in South Tipp and could really only afford 75 euro per sq ft. Appreciate any advice.

For a start read the sticky thread "the house that boards built".

just do it

Lemlin wrote: »

TIP 1 One tip I'd say for people is that agricultural shows are great. I got more info at Virginia show than I got at the Ideal Homes or Self Build Expo!

TIP 2 Also, keep an eye out for warehouse and liquidation sales. My bathroom stuff was sitting in my brother's house 18 months. Furniture has been there since February and we moved in in September. If you know you're going to need the stuff and its at rock bottom prices, buy it and store it.

Good tips! I heard alright that the ploughing is a good spot for building info.

afterburn1

Lemlin wrote: »

I'm attaching a picture I have from back in December 2009. It's the only picture I have here in work and shows the outside of the house just before the sun room roof was finished.

The MHRV is a Brink system. Ducting is flexible and not rigid but I priced both and didn't think the difference in performance was worth the extra cash. Brink didn't install it though. The same company did the geothermal, underfloor and MHRV.

The kitchen is casa compagna character oak. Local fitter from Monaghan did it.

Fine looking house. As a matter of interest what part of cavan are you in? I live in west cavan and hope to build sometime in the new year. If I could manage €70 or €75 per sq ft I'd be delighted. Couldn't really afford to go above that to be honest!

BryanF

afterburn1 wrote: »

Fine looking house. As a matter of interest what part of cavan are you in? I live in west cavan and hope to build sometime in the new year. If I could manage €70 or €75 per sq ft I'd be delighted. Couldn't really afford to go above that to be honest!

what do you mean? could you not reduce the size of the house? and go for a higher spec in energy conservation, comfort and finishes?

sas

BryanF wrote: »

what do you mean? could you not reduce the size of the house? and go for a higher spec in energy conservation, comfort and finishes?

This one gets trotted out alot here and I don't agree with it. This only works if you've the cash for the build, in a mortgage case it doesn't and this is the majority of cases.

The mortgage you can get will be based on the value of the property.

At the same location a smaller house will be worth less (generally) and hence the mortgage amount will be less i.e. the price per sq ft won't change much.

ShiverinEskimo

sas wrote: »

This one gets trotted out alot here and I don't agree with it. This only works if you've the cash for the build, in a mortgage case it doesn't and this is the majority of cases.

The mortgage you can get will be based on the value of the property.

At the same location a smaller house will be worth less (generally) and hence the mortgage amount will be less i.e. the price per sq ft won't change much.

Isn't your mortgage based on the quotes/costings? A smaller house to a higher spec will cost the same as a larger house to a lower spec - when you approach the bank doesn't the mortgage granted match the projected cost as per your quotes or quantity surveyors reports?

sas

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Isn't your mortgage based on the quotes/costings? A smaller house to a higher spec will cost the same as a larger house to a lower spec - when you approach the bank doesn't the mortgage granted match the projected cost as per your quotes or quantity surveyors reports?

The maximum amount the bank will loan you is limited by the valuation of the completed property.

So, no, that's absolutely not the case.

You are required to show that you have sufficient funds to build the house to completion based on the mortgage the bank will give you and potentially your own savings. That's where the quotes\surveyors reports come in. However, if it's going to cost more than it's worth, the bank won't loan you that money

If it worked the way you've described the situation could easily arise where the amount loaned is more than the value of the property i.e. negative equity. This is a bad situation for the bank to find themselves in naturally enough.

ShiverinEskimo

sas wrote: »

The maximum amount the bank will loan you is limited by the valuation of the completed property.

So, no, that's absolutely not the case.

You are required to show that you have sufficient funds to build the house to completion based on the mortgage the bank will give you and potentially your own savings. That's where the quotes\surveyors reports come in. However, if it's going to cost more than it's worth, the bank won't loan you that money

If it worked the way you've described the situation could easily arise where the amount loaned is more than the value of the property i.e. negative equity. This is a bad situation for the bank to find themselves in naturally enough.

My point though is that I honestly cannot see a case where the cost of building any realtively normal property (as in not some modern-art style job that would be too níche) would exceed the value of the finished house but there you go - guess I'm being naive.

I know if I go ahead and build my 4 bedroom house on half an acre etc. for about 200k I would be extremely shocked if it turned out to be worth less than 200k.

sas

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

My point though is that I honestly cannot see a case where the cost of building any realtively normal property (as in not some modern-art style job that would be too níche) would exceed the value of the finished house but there you go - guess I'm being naive.

I know if I go ahead and build my 4 bedroom house on half an acre etc. for about 200k I would be extremely shocked if it turned out to be worth less than 200k.

The point you've just described is not what you said in your earlier post.

I believe that it is the case in this country that high spec builds command very little premium over low spec builds. People are more swayed by nonsense such as "aren't the curtains lovely".

A 2000 sq foot house at location 'A' will in most cases get valued higher than a higher spec 1500 sq foot house at location 'A'. Even if the larger house is built really REALLY badly. This is yet another problem with the situation here but as this is mostly cultural there's not alot can be done about it, I personally feel that the we favour quantity over quality most days.

afterburn1

BryanF wrote: »

what do you mean? could you not reduce the size of the house? and go for a higher spec in energy conservation, comfort and finishes?

Sorry if I confused anyone, I should have mentioned I'm hoping to build a House around 1500 sq ft for €90,000 to €100,000. I borrowed €30,000 to buy the site, I have the aforementioned amount for the build from the sale of my last house.

sydthebeat

afterburn1 wrote: »

Sorry if I confused anyone, I should have mentioned I'm hoping to build a House around 1500 sq ft for €90,000 to €100,000. I borrowed €30,000 to buy the site, I have the aforementioned amount for the build from the sale of my last house.

it would be a very basic build for those figures.

have you excluded all other costs apart from build? ie profesional fees, conveyancing costs, developmet charges, connection fees etc?

1500 sq ft at 90k is €60 per sq ft... even for teh most basic house that is optimistic, unless you are getting a lot of work done for nothing by friends etc