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Cycling + Penalty Points

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    #32
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Beasty wrote: »
    No, you need to come out into North County Dublin for that;)

    Yep - and when you get to Meath it's even worse!!!

    I don't mind the city - I hate that stretch of road - and I'll have to think of a different comparator in future. :)


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    #33
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Limestone1 wrote: »
    Why don't I feel tainted by Op's actions ?.... does this mean I'm not a real cyclist ?

    I don't feel tainted by his actions either, but I know I'm not a real cyclist - whatever that is.........


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    #34
    dave.obrien
    Closed Accounts Posts: 573 ✭✭✭dave.obrien


    fat bloke wrote: »
    To each his own.

    Personally I find it infinitely safer to jump lights (safely - yes it's possible), and have some clear road, rather than be continuously hemmed by oblivious motorists.

    Anyone who's tried negotiating their way across a few lanes of traffic to get into a right turning lane should have an appreciation of the point - eg. coming from Harold's cross up to Christ church junction - the bike lane is all the way over to the left, you have to cross three lanes of traffic to get into the right turning lane. Try it on a bike in traffic and you just get abused, beeped at and right and left hooked.

    As far as I'm concerned there are two rules on a bike on the city streets - self-assertion, and self preservation. I wouldn't personally cycle the wrong way down a one-way street but I do deliberately make myself a fly in the ointment. Make your presence known, take up your space in the road when you need to, and don't take any sh1t from motorists.

    This is waffle, and is just reinforcing the "us vs them" attitude that most cycling campaigns seek to erode. As CramCycle suggests, if you can't change the lanes safely, don't; dismount and use pedestrian crossings. Remember that all vehicles are only entitled to change lanes when it is safe to do so, and just because a minority of motorists are in breach of the law does not under any circumstance allow cyclists to do the same.

    Also, what exactly does the example you cited have to do with the op's predicament?

    @op, you were wrong to do what you did, and I'm glad the gardai have decided it was worth penalising you. You do sound like you've learned your lesson though, so hopefully it won't get out of hand; a fine and a stern word would be more than enough.


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    #35
    DHFrame
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭DHFrame


    I think that the court is involved is ridiculous. It's just costing the tax payer more money, are we expected to this forever.... hauling people into court for this. An on the spot fine or a warning is enough this. We need more cycling lanes at the end of the day. What use are Dublin Bikes if no one can go anywhere safely? Dublin Bike users are not giving the rest of us a bad name, they are giving the rest of the Dublin Bike users a bad name. On an interesting note, the fact they dont provide helmets for Dublin Bikes highlights the ridiculousness of the whole debacle. Basically every single tourist that uses the bikes are committing on offense from the offset. Maybe every Dublin Bike user should be fined on the spot for not bringing a cycle helmet to Ireland with them. KA CHING!

    I'm here all week.


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    #36
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Oasis44 wrote: »
    Right so I've just been done by a bike cop for cycling down a one way street - up in court over it would you believe - a fine is inevitable I suppose but does anyone know what the deal is with penalty points - can they hit cyclists with them?? Would seem unfair I think because if I didn't have a licence it wouldn't be possible - thoughts???

    Was this you ;)
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056137819


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    #37
    droidus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭droidus


    DHFrame wrote: »
    On an interesting note, the fact they dont provide helmets for Dublin Bikes highlights the ridiculousness of the whole debacle. Basically every single tourist that uses the bikes are committing on offense from the offset. Maybe every Dublin Bike user should be fined on the spot for not bringing a cycle helmet to Ireland with them. KA CHING!

    I'm here all week.

    Its not a legal requirement to wear a helmet. There is no offense.


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    #38
    dave.obrien
    Closed Accounts Posts: 573 ✭✭✭dave.obrien


    DHFrame wrote: »
    On an interesting note, the fact they dont provide helmets for Dublin Bikes highlights the ridiculousness of the whole debacle. Basically every single tourist that uses the bikes are committing on offense from the offset.

    I am a helmet wearer, at all times, but the law does not require that one is worn, so that's not the case, any broken laws are not down to attire, just down to the ROTR.

    Please, no helmet wearing discussions to spoil this!

    Droidus beat me to it...


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    #39
    DHFrame
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭DHFrame


    dave.obrien wrote: »
    I am a helmet wearer, at all times, but the law does not require that one is worn, so that's not the case, any broken laws are not down to attire, just down to the ROTR.

    Please, no helmet wearing discussions to spoil this!

    Droidus beat me to it...

    I love it. It's not a legal requirement to wear a helmet in Ireland...? I am originally from England so I though it was the same here. Is it a legal requirement for minors? It has to be...


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    #40
    dave.obrien
    Closed Accounts Posts: 573 ✭✭✭dave.obrien


    It's not a legal requirement in the uk either...


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    #41
    DHFrame
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭DHFrame


    It just goes to show how dis-interested the law is in Cyclists, their safety and providing a proper infrastructure. To me, not wearing a helmet is the same as not wearing a seatbelt in a car. Now I will leave this discussion so I dont upset the 'thread subject' purists. Over and out.


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    #42
    dave.obrien
    Closed Accounts Posts: 573 ✭✭✭dave.obrien


    This is not a helmet thread, but search the forum here, you'll get plenty of threads on helmets, and the relative pro's and con's. It might be worth reading up on them before posting opinions like that; on the other hand, if you are aware of the safety requirements of helmets, their testing and their failure limits, I apologise, you are entitled to think that, and as I said, I wear one at all times on the bike, it's just part of the deal for me.


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    #43
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,010 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    DHFrame wrote: »
    To me, not wearing a helmet is the same as not wearing a seatbelt in a car.

    There is no evidence for this position.


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    #44
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    droidus wrote: »
    Its not a legal requirement to wear a helmet. There is no offense.

    Yes there bloody this.........:)

    I take great offense when I see a cyclist with no lid on........even if there is not legal offence committed.........see what I did there:)

    Minors must also wear helmets - it's the law;)


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    #45
    ROK ON
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON


    It really gets on my nerves the comments that seem to be the orthodoxy here. That is the smug patronising 'be a good cyclist and stop giving the rest of us a bad name' type posts.

    A person made a mistake, got caught asked advice. As well as actually getting the advice sought it also attracted the usual don't be bold posts.

    I am heartely fed up of this nonsense.

    People make mistakes. I feel no offence when I see a road user break the law unless it directly threatens me.
    Rant over.

    Ignore me I'm just cranky.


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    #46
    dave.obrien
    Closed Accounts Posts: 573 ✭✭✭dave.obrien


    Further to Rok On's rant, what annoys me about the whole "you're giving the rest of us a bad name" thing cyclists have is how much it reinforces the cyclists as a specific group thing. We're not, there are as many different types of cyclist as drivers, and just cause one cyclist does something wrong should not make the rest of us their accomplice. Who was it here that made the point of the power of the sub-group and recognising homogenity in groups you don't belong to? As in a driver will view cyclists as a homogeneous group, but sees difference in van drivers, bus drivers, taxi drivers, 4x4 drivers, saloon drivers, boy racers, etc...

    In my opinion, the good thing about the uptake in cycling in Ireland is the increase in the number of people who use multiple means of travelling, leading to greater understanding and sympathy between people. Maybe that's what annoys me about the "you're giving the rest of us a bad name" thing; I cycle, and drive, and sometimes am even a pedestrian. A mongrel like me (and most posters here) is not simply a badly behaved cyclist.


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    #47
    ROK ON
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,831 ✭✭✭ROK ON


    It really gets on my nerves the comments that seem to be the orthodoxy here. That is the smug patronising 'be a good cyclist and stop giving the rest of us a bad name' type posts.

    A person made a mistake, got caught asked advice. As well as actually getting the advice sought it also attracted the usual don't be bold posts.

    I am heartely fed up of this nonsense.

    People make mistakes. I feel no offence when I see a road user break the law unless it directly threatens me.
    Rant over.

    Ignore me I'm just cranky.


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    #48
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,010 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    ROK ON wrote: »
    A person made a mistake, got caught asked advice. As well as actually getting the advice sought it also attracted the usual don't be bold posts.

    No, it just proves that you should never start a thread with a sentence ending " - thoughts???".

    :pac:


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    #49
    Oasis44
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭Oasis44


    OP here - didn't realise before that 'real cyclists' turn their noses up at people on the Dublin bikes - that's funny

    Just spoke with my solicitor friend - he reckons it's highly unlikely the guard will show up in court cause the offence was so minor and it'll get thrown out

    He should have just given me an on the spot fine - the fool

    I was a good boy this morning though followed the rules of the road all the way and nearly got run over by a bus for my troubles - I'm thinking of retiring from cycling it's crazy out there!


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    #50
    brayblue24
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭brayblue24


    ROK ON wrote: »
    It really gets on my nerves the comments that seem to be the orthodoxy here. That is the smug patronising 'be a good cyclist and stop giving the rest of us a bad name' type posts.

    A person made a mistake, got caught asked advice. As well as actually getting the advice sought it also attracted the usual don't be bold posts.

    I am heartely fed up of this nonsense.

    People make mistakes. I feel no offence when I see a road user break the law unless it directly threatens me.
    Rant over.

    Ignore me I'm just cranky.

    "Up in court over it would you believe?"-if he'd only added "Quote, unquote, Hennessy" I'd have thought the OP was Charles O'Carroll Kelly. It's the arrogance that irritates I think


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    #51
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,743 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Oasis44 wrote: »
    I was a good boy this morning though followed the rules of the road all the way and nearly got run over by a bus for my troubles - I'm thinking of retiring from cycling it's crazy out there!
    What happened, out of interest?

    ("Read Cyclecraft" advice upcoming, I think.)


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    #52
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,743 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    dave.obrien wrote: »
    Who was it here that made the point of the power of the sub-group and recognising homogenity in groups you don't belong to? As in a driver will view cyclists as a homogeneous group, but sees difference in van drivers, bus drivers, taxi drivers, 4x4 drivers, saloon drivers, boy racers, etc...

    It was a discussion of ingroups and outgroups in Social Psychology and Social Identity Theory, I believe.


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    #53
    dave.obrien
    Closed Accounts Posts: 573 ✭✭✭dave.obrien


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    It was a discussion of ingroups and outgroups in Social Psychology and Social Identity Theory, I believe.

    Right you are, and very interesting it was too!


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    #54
    fasty
    Registered Users Posts: 981 ✭✭✭fasty


    There are plenty bad cyclists out there without including people who casually use Dublin Bikes to give cyclists a bad name, I'm afraid.

    I had to drive my girlfriend somewhere yesterday and passed a good few cyclists who didn't think it was necessarily to look over their shoulder or signal before overtaking cars, to use pedestrian signals as an excuse to break lights and to wear dark clothes and use no lights at all after dark.

    That said, my final near miss of 2010 was with a DB guy as I cycled down Camden St in the cycle lane. He took a left onto the same cycle lane as me without even looking down the road to see if anyone was coming!


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    #55
    Oasis44
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭Oasis44


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    What happened, out of interest?

    ("Read Cyclecraft" advice upcoming, I think.)

    I was coming up Pearse street this morning when I came upon a stationary bus - I started to go around him as there was no traffic behind me. I was half way around him when he just started to pull out so I had to swerve to right to avoid him - not my fault at all he just wasn't looking out for cyclists in his mirror.


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    #56
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,334 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Back on topic everyone (which is not helmets, Dublin bikes, driver behaviour etc.)

    Thanks

    Beasty


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    #57
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Oasis44 wrote: »
    I was coming up Pearse street this morning when I came upon a stationary bus - I started to go around him as there was no traffic behind me. I was half way around him when he just started to pull out so I had to swerve to right to avoid him - not my fault at all he just wasn't looking out for cyclists in his mirror.
    That's irritating, but it does happen.

    When you come upon a stopped bus and you don't know how long it's been there, look at the lights. If it's still indicating left, then go to overtake but abort if he indicates right before you start. If he's not indicating, stop and wait behind him.

    If you know how long the bus has been there and/or can see how many people (if any) are waiting to get on, then it's a judgement call.

    Doesn't always work. Sometimes you end up waiting behind a bus when you had an age to overtake. Sometimes (but rarely), you end up having the bus pull off while you're overtaking.
    If the bus has to pull out of a laybay, give him at least 8 feet of space (i.e. ride in the middle of the lane). If he's only stopped at the side of the road, then you don't need as much space because they generally move forwards instead of sideways.


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