Cycling + Penalty Points

Oasis44

Right so I've just been done by a bike cop for cycling down a one way street - up in court over it would you believe - a fine is inevitable I suppose but does anyone know what the deal is with penalty points - can they hit cyclists with them?? Would seem unfair I think because if I didn't have a licence it wouldn't be possible - thoughts???

MarkR

Well, you were in breach of the road traffic act. I think it's a joke that if you didn't have a licence you'd get off with a fine.

Remember kids. Follow the rules of the road.

Chips Lovell

Oasis44 wrote: »

up in court over it would you believe

I would

Oasis44 wrote: »

adoes anyone know what the deal is with penalty points - can they hit cyclists with them??

You won't get penalty points. They are only levied for motoring offences at present.

Idleater

You wouldn't be getting away with anything if you didn't have a licence- any points applied would be waiting for you when you do get one.

Captain Havoc

I think sympathy here is going to be thin. Cyclists breaking the rules of the road gives the rest of us a bad name (not that I'm totally innocent either).

murphyebass

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I think sympathy here is going to be thin. Cyclists breaking the rules of the road gives the rest of us a bad name (not that I'm totally innocent either).

+1 for he no sympathy. The amount of cyclists I see day in day out breaking lights, going wrong way up one way streets etc is rediculous so its nice to see the cops actually tackling the issue at last. :mad:

diarmuid79

Oasis44 wrote: »

Right so I've just been done by a bike cop for cycling down a one way street - up in court over it would you believe - a fine is inevitable I suppose but does anyone know what the deal is with penalty points - can they hit cyclists with them?? Would seem unfair I think because if I didn't have a licence it wouldn't be possible - thoughts???

You wont get penalty points just a fine which you deserve. :mad:

blobbie

Dublin Bike by any chance ?

LionelNashe

There was a story in the media a few months ago - A guy went through a red light on his bike (bicycle, definitely, not motorbike) and went through a windscreen of a car. The judge did something to his licence even though he hadn't been in a car at the time - He either suspended it or added penalty points. It was either Dublin or the UK.

Sorry about the hazy recall - I tried googling for details but I can't find it.

Edit:Ah, here we go. Link to story

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/injured-cyclist-gets-driving-ban-for-breaking-red-light-2228117.html

Here's an extract:
Robert Pierse, the author of Road Traffic Law in Ireland, which is now in its fourth edition ..... said the judge was perfectly entitled to impose a driving ban for a cycling offence.

Mr Pierse added: "It is highly unusual but legal. ......

Mr Pierse.. said that he had not come across any previous cases where a cycling offence led to a driving ban.

Oasis44

blobbie wrote: »

Dublin Bike by any chance ?

Yes afraid so - no it's fair enough getting pulled for it I did wrong and to be honest I deserve a fine cause I've been using one way streets for ages and it's dangerous for motorists and cyclists - glad to hear I won't be getting penalty points though!!

Cabaal

OP lets us know how you get on in the end,

Sungodbr

whats next pedestrians gettin penalty points when jumpin the red man...then upon consistent re-offence...

"you have been banned from walking on footpaths for 2 years"

Jawgap

Hi OP,

Assuming you went the wrong way down the one way street......

First - you won't get penalty points, because in all seriousness you don't deserve them.

Second - you won't get sympathy You might have got some sympathy except for the fact you were on a DB. Sorry, but a lot of DB'ers are giving everyone a bad name. Today while stopped (on my bike) at the junction of Talbot and Gardiner Streets, 3 DB'ers broke the lights heading towards O'Connell Street; 1 came the wrong down Talbot Street breaking the lights and another came along the footpad.

It's a great scheme that's getting a bad name because of such idiocy.

Anyway, good luck. I think the best advice is to go and plead guilty and apologise.

Jawgap

Sungodbr wrote: »

whats next pedestrians gettin penalty points when jumpin the red man...then upon consistent re-offence...

"you have been banned from walking on footpaths for 2 years"

What about jumping the red woman? (NSFW)

By the way, is the "g" broken on your keyboard?

Sungodbr

Jawgap wrote: »

By the way, is the "g" broken on your keyboard?

ye its hit and miss, works 50% of the time, that burnin"g" man festival is deadly

brayblue24

Oasis44 wrote: »

up in court over it would you believe

Down with this sort of thing.

A policeman doing his job indeed. What next?

Captain Havoc

brayblue24 wrote: »

Down with this sort of thing.

A policeman doing his job indeed. What next?

He should have been out catching real criminals

pmcd22

i guess Dublin, there be no sympathy since there are many cyclists but in a town where there is probably only a one or two streets only one way then pile on the sympathy.

But local guards wouldnt have time i guess for such small cases. But now on i will make sure to follow the rules of the road. ill try anyway.. its a start

cuppa

The footpad,im sure that reminds of something.

fat bloke

No sympathy for the cyclist in Dublin city????

Is right.

The cyclist is about as welcome in Dublin as a fart in a spacesuit.


I have sympathy for you my friend. I hope you get a judge who has actually tried cycling in Dublin, and that he shakes your hand, sends you on your way, gives the guard a bollicking and tells him to start ticketing cars parked on bicycle lanes, and pulling over and fining aggressive motorists who take out their pent up frustration on vulnerable road users.

penexpers

fat bloke wrote: »

No sympathy for the cyclist in Dublin city????

Is right.

The cyclist is about as welcome in Dublin as a fart in a spacesuit.


I have sympathy for you my friend. I hope you get a judge who has actually tried cycling in Dublin, and that he shakes your hand, sends you on your way, gives the guard a bollicking and tells him to start ticketing cars parked on bicycle lanes, and pulling over and fining aggressive motorists who take out their pent up frustration on vulnerable road users.

Just because other road users are flouting the law does not give cyclists license to do the same. I agree that the odds are stacked against the cyclist, but that doesn't mean that they should lower themselves to the level of other road users.

Captain Havoc

fat bloke wrote: »

No sympathy for the cyclist in Dublin city????

Is right.

The cyclist is about as welcome in Dublin as a fart in a spacesuit.


I have sympathy for you my friend. I hope you get a judge who has actually tried cycling in Dublin, and that he shakes your hand, sends you on your way, gives the guard a bollicking and tells him to start ticketing cars parked on bicycle lanes, and pulling over and fining aggressive motorists who take out their pent up frustration on vulnerable road users.

OP has a driving license, so s/he has studied the rules of the road and will know them. I don't like the attitude of a lot of cyclists who feel the law doesn't apply to them. The OP realises that it was wrong but is worried about penalty points, which is fair enough.

fat bloke

To each his own.

Personally I find it infinitely safer to jump lights (safely - yes it's possible), and have some clear road, rather than be continuously hemmed by oblivious motorists.

Anyone who's tried negotiating their way across a few lanes of traffic to get into a right turning lane should have an appreciation of the point - eg. coming from Harold's cross up to Christ church junction - the bike lane is all the way over to the left, you have to cross three lanes of traffic to get into the right turning lane. Try it on a bike in traffic and you just get abused, beeped at and right and left hooked.

As far as I'm concerned there are two rules on a bike on the city streets - self-assertion, and self preservation. I wouldn't personally cycle the wrong way down a one-way street but I do deliberately make myself a fly in the ointment. Make your presence known, take up your space in the road when you need to, and don't take any sh1t from motorists.

CramCycle

fat bloke wrote: »

Anyone who's tried negotiating their way across a few lanes of traffic to get into a right turning lane should have an appreciation of the point - eg. coming from Harold's cross up to Christ church junction - the bike lane is all the way over to the left, you have to cross three lanes of traffic to get into the right turning lane. Try it on a bike in traffic and you just get abused, beeped at and right and left hooked.

I do it all the time and rarely have a problem. Indicate across the lane in enough time to merge and move across each lane. Admittedly you might occasionally get hassle but to be fair that occurs regardless of what vehicle you are in.

The only way this causes a problem on a daily basis is if you are genuinely incapable of operating a vehicle on the road safely. if this is the case, you should either stop cycling or stop at the pedestrian crossing, dismount and walk across the junction.

Regardless of this, the OP mentioned a one way street, not how difficult cycling in Dublin and whether or not that is an excuse and has admitted fault. He knows he made a mistake and seems genuine about not repeating it, in this respect I hope he gets no more than a fine, their purpose being to teach you a lesson, if he learned it, job done.

Cabaal

fat bloke wrote: »

To each his own.

Personally I find it infinitely safer to jump lights (safely - yes it's possible), and have some clear road, rather than be continuously hemmed by oblivious motorists.

Yeah this works fine and its perfectly safe, I do it all the time in my car
:rolleyes: (not)

As far as I'm concerned there are two rules on a bike on the city streets - self-assertion, and self preservation.

Yes but neither which means you can break the law, there's plenty of ways you can keep yourself safe and assert yourself on the road without breaking the law.

I wouldn't personally cycle the wrong way down a one-way street but I do deliberately make myself a fly in the ointment. Make your presence known, take up your space in the road when you need to, and don't take any sh1t from motorists.

Why wouldn't you cycle the wrong way down a one way, is it because it breaks the law?

penexpers

fat bloke wrote: »

To each his own.

Personally I find it infinitely safer to jump lights (safely - yes it's possible), and have some clear road, rather than be continuously hemmed by oblivious motorists.

You can get clear road without jumping lights by going into the middle of the leftmost lane just in front of the traffic. Then keep an eye on the light patterns and get ready to go. Bikes can pull away faster than cars so you'll have a few seconds headstart.

Captain Havoc

Darwin

Jawgap

fat bloke wrote: »

No sympathy for the cyclist in Dublin city????

Is right.

The cyclist is about as welcome in Dublin as a fart in a spacesuit.


I have sympathy for you my friend. I hope you get a judge who has actually tried cycling in Dublin, and that he shakes your hand, sends you on your way, gives the guard a bollicking and tells him to start ticketing cars parked on bicycle lanes, and pulling over and fining aggressive motorists who take out their pent up frustration on vulnerable road users.

I don't think that's entirely true - Dublin ain't exactly Copenhagen or Amsterdam but it's not exactly Mogadishu either. I think the city is fine for cycling in. Yes, it could be a lot better, but it is improving.

The OP did something a bit silly, a bit selfish and - depending on the road in question - potentially dangerous. Hopefully he gets a fair judge who deals with the matter quickly and professionally.

Beasty

Jawgap wrote: »

I don't think that's entirely true - Dublin ain't exactly Copenhagen or Amsterdam but it's not exactly Mogadishu either.

No, you need to come out into North County Dublin for that

Limestone1

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I think sympathy here is going to be thin. Cyclists breaking the rules of the road gives the rest of us a bad name (not that I'm totally innocent either).

Jawgap wrote: »

Hi OP,


.................
Second - you won't get sympathy You might have got some sympathy except for the fact you were on a DB. Sorry, but a lot of DB'ers are giving everyone a bad name. .................


.

Why don't I feel tainted by Op's actions ?.... does this mean I'm not a real cyclist ?

ClareVisitor

LionelNashe wrote: »

There was a story in the media a few months ago - A guy went through a red light on his bike (bicycle, definitely, not motorbike) and went through a windscreen of a car. The judge did something to his licence even though he hadn't been in a car at the time - He either suspended it or added penalty points. It was either Dublin or the UK.

Sorry about the hazy recall - I tried googling for details but I can't find it.

Edit:Ah, here we go. Link to story

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/injured-cyclist-gets-driving-ban-for-breaking-red-light-2228117.html

Here's an extract:
Robert Pierse, the author of Road Traffic Law in Ireland, which is now in its fourth edition ..... said the judge was perfectly entitled to impose a driving ban for a cycling offence.

Mr Pierse added: "It is highly unusual but legal. ......

Mr Pierse.. said that he had not come across any previous cases where a cycling offence led to a driving ban.

I do remember reading about this. And technically he did end up in a car

Jawgap

Beasty wrote: »

No, you need to come out into North County Dublin for that

Yep - and when you get to Meath it's even worse!!!

I don't mind the city - I hate that stretch of road - and I'll have to think of a different comparator in future.

Jawgap

Limestone1 wrote: »

Why don't I feel tainted by Op's actions ?.... does this mean I'm not a real cyclist ?

I don't feel tainted by his actions either, but I know I'm not a real cyclist - whatever that is.........

dave.obrien

fat bloke wrote: »

To each his own.

Personally I find it infinitely safer to jump lights (safely - yes it's possible), and have some clear road, rather than be continuously hemmed by oblivious motorists.

Anyone who's tried negotiating their way across a few lanes of traffic to get into a right turning lane should have an appreciation of the point - eg. coming from Harold's cross up to Christ church junction - the bike lane is all the way over to the left, you have to cross three lanes of traffic to get into the right turning lane. Try it on a bike in traffic and you just get abused, beeped at and right and left hooked.

As far as I'm concerned there are two rules on a bike on the city streets - self-assertion, and self preservation. I wouldn't personally cycle the wrong way down a one-way street but I do deliberately make myself a fly in the ointment. Make your presence known, take up your space in the road when you need to, and don't take any sh1t from motorists.

This is waffle, and is just reinforcing the "us vs them" attitude that most cycling campaigns seek to erode. As CramCycle suggests, if you can't change the lanes safely, don't; dismount and use pedestrian crossings. Remember that all vehicles are only entitled to change lanes when it is safe to do so, and just because a minority of motorists are in breach of the law does not under any circumstance allow cyclists to do the same.

Also, what exactly does the example you cited have to do with the op's predicament?

@op, you were wrong to do what you did, and I'm glad the gardai have decided it was worth penalising you. You do sound like you've learned your lesson though, so hopefully it won't get out of hand; a fine and a stern word would be more than enough.

DHFrame

I think that the court is involved is ridiculous. It's just costing the tax payer more money, are we expected to this forever.... hauling people into court for this. An on the spot fine or a warning is enough this. We need more cycling lanes at the end of the day. What use are Dublin Bikes if no one can go anywhere safely? Dublin Bike users are not giving the rest of us a bad name, they are giving the rest of the Dublin Bike users a bad name. On an interesting note, the fact they dont provide helmets for Dublin Bikes highlights the ridiculousness of the whole debacle. Basically every single tourist that uses the bikes are committing on offense from the offset. Maybe every Dublin Bike user should be fined on the spot for not bringing a cycle helmet to Ireland with them. KA CHING!

I'm here all week.

ThisRegard

Oasis44 wrote: »

Right so I've just been done by a bike cop for cycling down a one way street - up in court over it would you believe - a fine is inevitable I suppose but does anyone know what the deal is with penalty points - can they hit cyclists with them?? Would seem unfair I think because if I didn't have a licence it wouldn't be possible - thoughts???

Was this you
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056137819

droidus

DHFrame wrote: »

On an interesting note, the fact they dont provide helmets for Dublin Bikes highlights the ridiculousness of the whole debacle. Basically every single tourist that uses the bikes are committing on offense from the offset. Maybe every Dublin Bike user should be fined on the spot for not bringing a cycle helmet to Ireland with them. KA CHING!

I'm here all week.

Its not a legal requirement to wear a helmet. There is no offense.

dave.obrien

DHFrame wrote: »

On an interesting note, the fact they dont provide helmets for Dublin Bikes highlights the ridiculousness of the whole debacle. Basically every single tourist that uses the bikes are committing on offense from the offset.

I am a helmet wearer, at all times, but the law does not require that one is worn, so that's not the case, any broken laws are not down to attire, just down to the ROTR.

Please, no helmet wearing discussions to spoil this!

Droidus beat me to it...

DHFrame

dave.obrien wrote: »

I am a helmet wearer, at all times, but the law does not require that one is worn, so that's not the case, any broken laws are not down to attire, just down to the ROTR.

Please, no helmet wearing discussions to spoil this!

Droidus beat me to it...

I love it. It's not a legal requirement to wear a helmet in Ireland...? I am originally from England so I though it was the same here. Is it a legal requirement for minors? It has to be...

dave.obrien

It's not a legal requirement in the uk either...

DHFrame

It just goes to show how dis-interested the law is in Cyclists, their safety and providing a proper infrastructure. To me, not wearing a helmet is the same as not wearing a seatbelt in a car. Now I will leave this discussion so I dont upset the 'thread subject' purists. Over and out.

dave.obrien

This is not a helmet thread, but search the forum here, you'll get plenty of threads on helmets, and the relative pro's and con's. It might be worth reading up on them before posting opinions like that; on the other hand, if you are aware of the safety requirements of helmets, their testing and their failure limits, I apologise, you are entitled to think that, and as I said, I wear one at all times on the bike, it's just part of the deal for me.

Lumen

DHFrame wrote: »

To me, not wearing a helmet is the same as not wearing a seatbelt in a car.

There is no evidence for this position.

Jawgap

droidus wrote: »

Its not a legal requirement to wear a helmet. There is no offense.

Yes there bloody this.........:)

I take great offense when I see a cyclist with no lid on........even if there is not legal offence committed.........see what I did there:)

Minors must also wear helmets - it's the law;)

ROK ON

It really gets on my nerves the comments that seem to be the orthodoxy here. That is the smug patronising 'be a good cyclist and stop giving the rest of us a bad name' type posts.

A person made a mistake, got caught asked advice. As well as actually getting the advice sought it also attracted the usual don't be bold posts.

I am heartely fed up of this nonsense.

People make mistakes. I feel no offence when I see a road user break the law unless it directly threatens me.
Rant over.

Ignore me I'm just cranky.

dave.obrien

Further to Rok On's rant, what annoys me about the whole "you're giving the rest of us a bad name" thing cyclists have is how much it reinforces the cyclists as a specific group thing. We're not, there are as many different types of cyclist as drivers, and just cause one cyclist does something wrong should not make the rest of us their accomplice. Who was it here that made the point of the power of the sub-group and recognising homogenity in groups you don't belong to? As in a driver will view cyclists as a homogeneous group, but sees difference in van drivers, bus drivers, taxi drivers, 4x4 drivers, saloon drivers, boy racers, etc...

In my opinion, the good thing about the uptake in cycling in Ireland is the increase in the number of people who use multiple means of travelling, leading to greater understanding and sympathy between people. Maybe that's what annoys me about the "you're giving the rest of us a bad name" thing; I cycle, and drive, and sometimes am even a pedestrian. A mongrel like me (and most posters here) is not simply a badly behaved cyclist.

ROK ON

It really gets on my nerves the comments that seem to be the orthodoxy here. That is the smug patronising 'be a good cyclist and stop giving the rest of us a bad name' type posts.

A person made a mistake, got caught asked advice. As well as actually getting the advice sought it also attracted the usual don't be bold posts.

I am heartely fed up of this nonsense.

People make mistakes. I feel no offence when I see a road user break the law unless it directly threatens me.
Rant over.

Ignore me I'm just cranky.

Lumen

ROK ON wrote: »

A person made a mistake, got caught asked advice. As well as actually getting the advice sought it also attracted the usual don't be bold posts.

No, it just proves that you should never start a thread with a sentence ending " - thoughts???".

:pac:

Oasis44

OP here - didn't realise before that 'real cyclists' turn their noses up at people on the Dublin bikes - that's funny

Just spoke with my solicitor friend - he reckons it's highly unlikely the guard will show up in court cause the offence was so minor and it'll get thrown out

He should have just given me an on the spot fine - the fool

I was a good boy this morning though followed the rules of the road all the way and nearly got run over by a bus for my troubles - I'm thinking of retiring from cycling it's crazy out there!

brayblue24

ROK ON wrote: »

It really gets on my nerves the comments that seem to be the orthodoxy here. That is the smug patronising 'be a good cyclist and stop giving the rest of us a bad name' type posts.

A person made a mistake, got caught asked advice. As well as actually getting the advice sought it also attracted the usual don't be bold posts.

I am heartely fed up of this nonsense.

People make mistakes. I feel no offence when I see a road user break the law unless it directly threatens me.
Rant over.

Ignore me I'm just cranky.

"Up in court over it would you believe?"-if he'd only added "Quote, unquote, Hennessy" I'd have thought the OP was Charles O'Carroll Kelly. It's the arrogance that irritates I think

tomasrojo

Oasis44 wrote: »

I was a good boy this morning though followed the rules of the road all the way and nearly got run over by a bus for my troubles - I'm thinking of retiring from cycling it's crazy out there!

What happened, out of interest?

("Read Cyclecraft" advice upcoming, I think.)