So many unemployed...so few with the right skills

desaparecidos

stimpson wrote: »

You'll find that most of the 400,000 people on the dole don't actually have highly specialized IT skills.

Well that goes without saying. People on the dole are on the dole for a reason.

Pigeon-holed skill set and/or are lazy feckers.

HellFireClub

mbiking123 wrote: »

But MCSE is what proves you have reaches the standard. There has been a gradual movement from network OS such as Novell to Microsoft. It is alot easier to admin as Novell for example runs on Linux. A company will always need people to do the usual password reset etc etc. Some users are real bad, they tell you there password wont work it is correct and its the system fault etc etc ..................................................

Doing SMS, SCCM, profiles etc etc does take a bit of learning. Most companies are on MS server at this stage and possibly a bit like a driving licence but even a formula one driver needs to start somewhere.

If someone wants to study for CCNE, fair play but will you get a job in say Castlebar? I would say get MCSE and prob get admin work alot easier. Would also handy to be A+ certified. Not much point getting Oracle OCA or Cisco CCNA if no positions where you live

When I was studying for an electronic engineering degree in uni, it was an expectation that you took ownership of learning outside of the formal curriculum, an awful lot of stuff that you'd be expected to know, it was more or less expected if you were any good, that you could sit down at a server and train yourself in a very short time stuff like creating a user profile, e-mail addresses, HTML, CSS, all this kind of stuff you were expected to become fairly fluent on almost as a hobby...

desaparecidos

ScumLord wrote: »

I have two unemployed friends that I've told should learn something like web design as it's a piece of piss and is an area where experience and work already done count more than a collage course. I gave them books but they wouldn't red them.

Load of arse really.

ntlbell

mbiking123 wrote: »

But MCSE is what proves you have reaches the standard. There has been a gradual movement from network OS such as Novell to Microsoft. It is alot easier to admin as Novell for example runs on Linux. A company will always need people to do the usual password reset etc etc. Some users are real bad, they tell you there password wont work it is correct and its the system fault etc etc ..................................................

Doing SMS, SCCM, profiles etc etc does take a bit of learning. Most companies are on MS server at this stage and possibly a bit like a driving licence but even a formula one driver needs to start somewhere.

If someone wants to study for CCNE, fair play but will you get a job in say Castlebar? I would say get MCSE and prob get admin work alot easier. Would also handy to be A+ certified. Not much point getting Oracle OCA or Cisco CCNA if no positions where you live

It doesn't prove anything the microsoft exams have been compltley de-valued as most companies now know they're passed via test king or something similar.

and if your job is going to be resetting passwords do you really need an MCSE? Again companies don't really hire these type of people now that money is tight unless the company is very big, senior guys are doing the more mundane work now in lots of companies as budgets get smaller etc

You would be far better off volunteering for somewhere like CAMARA who repair/build PC's as a charity which are sent to africa.

After a few weeks you would have real world expirience with building machines from scratch, installing/setting up PC's they have their own network which you could get expirience managing etc.

Now you have something real and tangible to show to an employer and would prepare you a lot better to answer interview questions than reading a few MCP/MCT/whatever they're called these days books that you'll forget a week after you put it down.

That's just one way but there is lots ways to spend your time far better than wrote learning something you know nothing about.

ScumLord

OctavarIan wrote: »

Shit web design is a piece of piss. Maybe if you want to hover at a level that's just below average.

It's easy to learn but can be hard to put into practice but they have plenty of time to practice. HTML and CSS are fairly straight forward and accessible because you don't need to outlay a load of money to learn them.

Lumen

gaellem wrote: »

I think its a disgrace the way Irish companies today prefer to employ an eatern european with near enough no english than employing their own and accept to spend a bit of time and money to train them to their requirements.

What you suggest is both illogical and illegal.

Wagon

ScumLord wrote: »

It's easy to learn but can be hard to put into practice but they have plenty of time to practice. HTML and CSS are fairly straight forward and accessible because you don't need to outlay a load of money to learn them.

Yeah they're grand. Then there's the graphic design, the Javascript, the PHP. And probably most important, the SEO.

ntlbell

Wagon wrote: »

Yeah they're grand, love them both. Then there's the graphic design, the Javascript, the PHP. And probably most important, the SEO.

learn it all in a weekend sure :pac:

Wagon

Wagon wrote: »

Yeah they're grand. Then there's the graphic design, the Javascript, the PHP. And probably most important, the SEO.

I get what you're saying, but you could have a good go at all of those if you were on the dole for any length of time, at no or little cost to the learner.

ScumLord

Wagon wrote: »

Yeah they're grand. Then there's the graphic design, the Javascript, the PHP. And probably most important, the SEO.

Graphic design would be a big hurdle but you don't need to know it to make a webpage and in bigger places it would be a different person that does that. SEO is another thing that has to be learned through experience it's an easily accessible skill that takes time and experience to master.

zweton

would windows 7 be a good cert to get?

William Powell

mbiking123 wrote: »

But MCSE is what proves you have reaches the standard........

Quite true but an obsolete standard as you can't certify as an MCSE on anything newer than Microsofts 2003 products, MCITP would be more valid but give HR another 10 years to work that one out.

ntlbell

zweton wrote: »

would windows 7 be a good cert to get?

What would be good is read up on different aspects of IT, identify some part of it you would be interested in and go from there.

There's no "good" cert etc, get into something you actually have an interest in.

mbiking123

It doesn't prove anything the microsoft exams have been compltley de-valued as most companies now know they're passed via test king or something similar.

and if your job is going to be resetting passwords do you really need an MCSE? Again companies don't really hire these type of people now that money is tight unless the company is very big, senior guys are doing the more mundane work now in lots of companies as budgets get smaller etc

You would be far better off volunteering for somewhere like CAMARA who repair/build PC's as a charity which are sent to africa.

After a few weeks you would have real world expirience with building machines from scratch, installing/setting up PC's they have their own network which you could get expirience managing etc.

Now you have something real and tangible to show to an employer and would prepare you a lot better to answer interview questions than reading a few MCP/MCT/whatever they're called these days books that you'll forget a week after you put it down.

That's just one way but there is lots ways to spend your time far better than wrote learning something you know nothing about.

take CCNA, that exam is done with multiple choice questions. Those same questions can be got on the web , there is alot of questions but you can use them for revision. So you could say that more than just MCSE(or MCITP) is affected. However this is a qualification that people look for, otherwise what qualification proves you know microsoft server?

and for resetting passwords, I think everone gets caught up in that. End up with some manager making a ridiculous claim about system etc etc

In any case going off subject, so will leave it at that and if people think MCSE is a load of junk - ok. I dont work for Microsoft

aidan24326

desaparecidos wrote: »

Well that goes without saying. People on the dole are on the dole for a reason.

Pigeon-holed skill set and/or are lazy feckers.

And that's a very lazy and stupid generalisation. There are very very few jobs out there at the moment regardless of what skillset you have or what line of work you do.

Yes there are wasters who can't be bothered to get a job, and alot of people lacking the right skills, we all know that. But there are also thousands of people out there with good skills and experience in various fields of work who simply can't get a job. Because, guess what, there aren't any.

The jobs market here is completely dead with very few available positions and masses of people jobhunting. That's the reality, which if you lose your own job you may come to find out. It'll be a hard landing when you fall off that high horse you're on.

And you know something else? This stuff about there being 80,000 unfilled IT jobs is absolute guff. I've never heard such rubbish. If all those jobs really existed and companies couldn't find suitably qualified candidates here they'd recruit abroad. Or they'd hire the best they could find here and train them up. So it's a fantasy, a made-up number. If there really was thouands of genuine unfilled IT jobs, we wouldn't have hundreds of IT, Electronic Engineering and Computer Science graduates on the dole, it's as simple as that.

mbiking123

Well that goes without saying. People on the dole are on the dole for a reason.

Pigeon-holed skill set and/or are lazy feckers.

over the top statement

ntlbell

mbiking123 wrote: »

take CCNA, that exam is done with multiple choice questions. Those same questions can be got on the web , there is alot of questions but you can use them for revision. So you could say that more than just MCSE(or MCITP) is affected. However this is a qualification that people look for, otherwise what qualification proves you know microsoft server?

You can insert pretty much any of the exams for MCSE bar something like RHCE/CCNP where you have to physically show you know your stuff. As I said above for the low level jobs you're discussing you're far better off with some tangible expirience that _proves_ you can do x/y/z and when in an intherview you can actually answer questions because you have literally been doing the work not reading about it.

You very rarley see a job advertised looking for zero expirience and an MCSE they might look for the certs along side 3/4/5 years expirience and a techinical degree of some sort.

If you do something like I mentioned above and maybe look towards an A+ so you have both some expirience AND some form of certification relative to the expirience would be more benifical for lower entry IT positions imo.

mbiking123

Back to original issue of not being able to get suitably qualified people. What pay was on offer to a suitably qualified person?

CrazyRabbit

mbiking123 wrote: »

Back to original issue of not being able to get suitably qualified people. What pay was on offer to a suitably qualified person?

I'm not the hiring manager. Pay depends on skills & contract type. But I'd guess at least 35k per year, plus a variable bonus each March & other perks/discounts etc.

Not bad for the job, especially in these times.

Copper23

sink wrote: »

Afaik Basic and VB used to be common as an introductory language for beginner programmers, Java/C++ and other lower level languages being thought later.

If that was the case I'd seriously think about switching to a "real" computing degree.

VB still gets thought to Buisness courses and courses not really targetted to developers. If a serious Computing course only thought me VB I'd have to question it.

Its not the point, if you can learn 1 language, you can self learn any language, if people go in thinking they are a Java developer thus they can not apply for a job in C++ or VB or flipping COBOL then I despair at their level of training in the first place.

boblong

CrazyRabbit does your company invest any time in students by offering internships (to CS students etc.)?

hinthintnodnod

Lust4Life

Computer applications are often used differently from company to company although the basic theory is the same.

I gained most of my computer skills by interviewing for a job that called for more computer skills that I ever dreamed I would have. I said "Show me what you want done and how you want it done, and it will get done."

The boss liked my attitude. After a day's training, I was able to grasp what was needed and hit the ground running. I don't think they ever figured out that I was under-qualified when hired, because I learned at a very fast rate and exceeded their expectations in a very short time.

Copper23

Copper23 wrote: »

If that was the case I'd seriously think about switching to a "real" computing degree.

VB still gets thought to Buisness courses and courses not really targetted to developers. If a serious Computing course only thought me VB I'd have to question it.

So would I, especially as they are supposed to have taught it, not thought about it :pac:

...but seriously, I agree. If you can learn Java or C/whatever, you can pick up VB

ToxicPaddy

The company I work for had the same problems, recruiting for 2 x IT positions.. but the network/security side of things, again, looking for ages but struggling to find people with the right skillsets..

They reviewed the specs they sent to the various recruitment agencies but time and time again, they didn't get the right candidate.. in the end, they found 2 people after nearly 6 months of looking and countless interviews..

It seems that a lot of the people with these skillsets have left the country and to be honest, who could blame them, why sit around doing nothing when you can be working elsewhere and using your skills instead of sitting around losing them from them not being used..

As for the comment, about people sitting on the dole being wasters, granted there are some, but one of my colleagues here was unemployed for nearly 9 months before he came to work here and he is far from a waster, one of the most professional guys I work with and has a huge amount of knowledge in his area, but there was no work in the area he worked in so what could he do? He is married with a few kids and couldnt even pick up part time bar work, so he had no choice but to sign on..

maninasia

Serenity Nutritious Bug wrote: »

Yes, I am for real. As you seem to have trouble understanding my posts, it's not pretentious to say you speak Spanish. It's pretentious to say you speak español. It's ridiculous. The name of the language in English is Spanish, not español. It's right up there with saying you went on holiday to Napoli instead of saying Naples. 'Oh look at me, I can speak another language, aren't I clever?' Do you also write 'hablo English' in your Spanish cover letters?

No, I don't work in HR, but if I did, I'd definitely have binned your application for that. I'm almost sure that's what happened. Even the thickest HR bint would either understand 'español' or look it up in a dictionary.

You are wrong mate, the exact same situation exists in Chinese for example. Within the Chinese 'language' there are numerous dialects, all of which are quite different to each other. So on a resume you would need to state very clearly if you are fluent in Mandarin, Cantonese, Taiwanese, Shanghainese, Hakka etc.

The candidate erred by not understanding Irish people's lack of knowledge regarding Spanish, but if the actual manager he/she was supposed to work with checked his cover letter there would have been no problem whatsoever.

Finally should a HR person bin a letter if they think the applicant is 'pretentious' or not? Is that the one of the main criteria they should judge something on?

An Citeog

squod wrote: »

Heard a story of recently. Person just recently finished a doctorate gets a job as a shop manager with Adil. That's what six years of free college education gets you me thinks. Fuck.

If it's the Area Manager Graduate Training Programme, the starting salary is €60k, rising to €86k after 3 years with a fully expensed Audi A4 thrown in.

maninasia

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

The company I work for had the same problems, recruiting for 2 x IT positions.. but the network/security side of things, again, looking for ages but struggling to find people with the right skillsets..

They reviewed the specs they sent to the various recruitment agencies but time and time again, they didn't get the right candidate.. in the end, they found 2 people after nearly 6 months of looking and countless interviews..

It seems that a lot of the people with these skillsets have left the country and to be honest, who could blame them, why sit around doing nothing when you can be working elsewhere and using your skills instead of sitting around losing them from them not being used..

As for the comment, about people sitting on the dole being wasters, granted there are some, but one of my colleagues here was unemployed for nearly 9 months before he came to work here and he is far from a waster, one of the most professional guys I work with and has a huge amount of knowledge in his area, but there was no work in the area he worked in so what could he do? He is married with a few kids and couldnt even pick up part time bar work, so he had no choice but to sign on..

He could have picked up freelance work on the internet no? Personally I would never sit around for 9 months, dole or no dole.

steddyeddy

no offence to any nationality here but I think generally the people leaving the country are more skilled than the people who were coming into the country.

stimpson

steddyeddy wrote: »

people leaving the country are more skilled than the people who are now leaving the country.

Are you an English major?

steddyeddy

stimpson wrote: »

Are you an English major?

Biochemistry and zoology major. Im not in the army as your post implies.