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The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?
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starbelgrade wrote: »I never claimed to know anything about the pub trade, however I do know a little about business. I have run my own business for the last ten years and despite 70% of my competitors going out of business in the last 5 years, I'm still operating & doing very well. In fact, I expanded it on 2010.
I managed to do this by changing how we operate, by adjusting our business plan & business model to suit the current market place.
The pubs are failing because they haven't done the same. That's simple economics. Calling for protectionist measurements is clear evidence that your industry federation - the VFI, or whatever the fuck they are called - are incompetent and inept.
And instead of recognising that problem & addressing the real reasons why your & your competitors businesses are failing, instead of opening your mind to suggestions from other business owners as to how to address your problems - you seem more content to invest your energies into calling my posts "moronic", calling me a "hypocrite" and telling me that I'm talking through my arse.
Well, that's where I will leave this discussion, because it is clear that you are incapable of having a debate without resorting to name calling.
And it is pointless trying to discuss business sense with you as you have clearly not even learned the first & most basic rule of any business - which is to be nice to those you meet on the way up as you are just as likely to meet them on the way down.
Fully - I understand your very successful and a great businessman and all that. Yet when you tell me to run my business a certain way and tell me what I should do when you yourself admitted to knowing very little about the trade, it is understandable that I respond with accurate comments and counter arguments, It may not agree with you that someone is arguing with you about something but thats life. The things you have said in many cases (not all) have been false, distorted and media driven.
I have stated many reasons why me and my competitors are failing, yet these reasons are the the same ones you are agreeing with. You have made statements here that are false - and continue to do so - Mis-informed opinions and such stated as fact, When they are clearly not.
If you go over to the food and drink section I have a thread there on this very issue - looking for suggestions and informed opinion on whats happening to the pub trade. I have no problem taking advice, feedback, suggestions from informed, sound, business minded people like yourself - yours just dont make sense.
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As I said in the other thread on this topic (in case you missed it):
The vintners tried this calling stunt before.
Its NOT to just set a minimum, its to stop other drink sellers OUTSIDE of the vintners association, those who refuse to join their mafia style org', under cutting in on their higher drink prices.
If a legal minimum is set, the vintners win double so, as they can then report their competition if a cheaper bar is anywhere in their locality to one of their members, for selling cheaper drink!
As a great deal of FF members in the Dail alone, has previously been shown to be bar/leisure industry related (see here), they are just trying to cover their proverbial asses and cut out the competition!
Hold on just one second - The vintners is an organization that is set up to help publicans with the running of their business - the offer legal advice, (not just in the cases of a problem involving barring a person but to all aspects such as licence renewel, employee contracts and rights, legislation etc etc)
they are not trying to stop publicans doing anything, or report non-members for whatever - they are trying to protect the industry as a whole. And the biggest threat is supermarkets selling a loss leader. There are nearly (probably) more non members than members at this stage* yet the things they try to get done benifit non-members too.
When have you heard the vintners lobbying for a law which is subject to VFI members only?
That comment was a tad unfair!
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Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Wetherspoons meant to open a pub in Dublin but the local publicans screamed blue murder as Wetherspoons can sell drinks cheaper than anyone as people who have drank in one in the UK can testify to.
An old relative of mine stated years (and I mean years before the boom or any of that) ago that the day would come when the publican would be standing in the doorway begging you to come in.That day has arrived and they have nobody to blame but themselves.Who'd have thought we'd hear ads trying to coax us into pubs.
Name me an industry that raises prices when trade decreases? They've gouged the drinking man for years and have the temerity to complain when people turn their backs on them due to high costs of a night out.
Im not sure about weatherspoons but in fairness they wont be selling it that much cheaper over here if they did arrive and if they do it would be below cost as the vat rate here, rates, would soon learn em - but when all the other pubs close around them and their prices go up to normal levels your stuck with them. But as with any multi franchise agency they would be fairly/very competitive.
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starbelgrade wrote: »What bit of advice have I given doesn't make sense?
I can't put it simpler than this... if your business model is failing, it needs to be changed and if price is the main issue with customers, that is the main problem that needs to be addressed.
How do you do that? I don't know. That's for you & your federation to decide. But it is clear to even the dogs on the street that so far, your industry has failed miserably to do this.
However, I do know that calling people's posts "moronic", telling people they are talking through their arse & calling other posters "twats" is not the way to go about it.
If that's how you react to customers in your pub, I'm not surprised you can't get bums on seats. If you were the publican in my local, I wouldn't drink there, because your attitude stinks.
The post made calling that person a twat was a mistake - yet you seem to keep highlighting it to make my arguments less valid - I have apologised to you, to the recipient and to all involved in the thread, I wont do it again.
I have responded to about 30 different people here i'd say - and not called any posts "moronic" or accused anyone of talking "out there ar*e"
Just you.
We seem to have gotten a little wayward and you've taken a disliking to me - thats fine, but I stand by what was posted previously in relation to your comments. you have posted inaccuracies and I have argued them - if you dont like me arguing them then discontinue the discussion.
I am personally a very laid back person but if I have a debate I have a debate - if someone's statements seem moronic then I tell them - if they find mine the same tell me and argue the point. When someone tries to tell me about business plans and Business models then states that I should sell all my product below cost then .... what do you expect?
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...And that all well and noble.
Absolute cobblers!
There was a case last year alone where a man who owns his own bar and was selling drink, was visited one day by two higher ranking members of the VFI and told without question, to raise the price of his drink.
This he refused to do. Apparently other VFI local members had been put out by him selling cheaper than they - so they complained - thus the men in suit visit.
Long story short, he refused to bow to their demands. He told the men to wait at the bar till he returned. He went to his office and grabbed a cheque he had made out. He brought it back to them, showed it to them and then proceeded to rip it up in front of them.
He told them "That was my next membership payment for the VFI" - he then told the two men in suits where to go and never darken his door again!
I never said that - please show EXACTLY where I have stated that!
Maybe I mis-interperated you, It seemed that was what you are saying.
And where was this case exactly? I didnt hear of it(not saying its false i just didnt hear of it) doesnt really go with what the vintners does, I find it hard to believe but if you could get me a link or something i'd be really interested in reading it.
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starbelgrade wrote: »What bit of advice have I given doesn't make sense?
Most of it to be quite honest.
Such as selling products below cost?
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