Depression

yahoo_moe

Wibbs wrote: »

We are usually OK with someone terminally ill seeking to take the choice into their own hands, but what does terminal mean beyond the obvious? Practically speaking it means that your future is finite.

Everyone's future is finite. I'm not dragging up the whole argument again as nobody really moved much from their starting positions yesterday (and the start of the argument had little to do with depression as it turned out). But life itself is terminal by that definition. If you mean, 'finite and defined' (i.e. three months left to live), fair enough, but even those predictions can be significantly off.

Also, the poll obviously isn't representative... but if the numbers are accurate, there are 200 people potentially reading this with depression but who aren't seeking any help. Please do. Talk to your GP, dial a helpline, talk to a friend or loved one - you don't have to do it alone. Things can get better.

enda1

I find it shocking that less than a quarter of people say they've never suffered from depression. How does that compare to medical belief on the true figures?

I wonder if many people tick depression when they may have gone through a period of sadness caused by loss or some such experience.

Wibbs

enda1 wrote: »

I find it shocking that less than a quarter of people say they've never suffered from depression. How does that compare to medical belief on the true figures?

mikeystipey explains it well I reckon...

mikeystipey wrote: »

Can I just say something about the survey please, and the possible impression that 80 or 85 percent of people reading here are depressed. Having studied Statistics a bit there is the concept of 'voluntary response bias', whereby people with a strong experience of something will vote, whereas people who don't have a strong experience may not. So what I mean is a lot of people reading this thread who have not suffered depression may not have cast a vote. Hence the rather shocking 80 percent stat.

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Everyone's future is finite. I'm not dragging up the whole argument again as nobody really moved much from their starting positions yesterday (and the start of the argument had little to do with depression as it turned out). But life itself is terminal by that definition. If you mean, 'finite and defined' (i.e. three months left to live), fair enough, but even those predictions can be significantly off.

Ah c'mon, the difference between the finite of an otherwise healthy 18 year old and a 18 year old quadriplegic is... well huge. So comparing the two is frankly bollocks.

enda1 wrote:

I wonder if many people tick depression when they may have gone through a period of sadness caused by loss or some such experience.

That would be my take and the figures of actual medical level depression are a lot lower.

Vicxas

Can i just ask, i dont know much about depression, but does it make you feel like you've no friends and no-one you can be close to?

Odysseus

enda1 wrote: »

I find it shocking that less than a quarter of people say they've never suffered from depression. How does that compare to medical belief on the true figures?

I wonder if many people tick depression when they may have gone through a period of sadness caused by loss or some such experience.

I have published a minor paper about this, when you speak of loss the symptoms of mourning are very close to the symptoms of depression, Freud was the first to write about this in 1915 in his paper Mourning and Melancholia, the big difference being what he described as "feeling of self-regard" or what some would call self-esteem today. All he did was note the similarities and from that viewpoint depression would be connected to an unconscious loss, though that is not to say it is the only view-point. It was just the case that he was the first to write about the the connections between loss and what was know at the time as melancholia.

Loss can be a factor in depression, one example being pathological mourning, or becoming depressed following the loss of a job or the ending of a relationship.

I have no stats to hand but figures will vary depending upon research methods, the definitions of exactly what a depressive disorder is, or what type is being researched. There is a significant difference mild, moderate and severe depressive episode. A case of severe depressive illness will generally require the person to be in a hospital and they may need treatments like ECT as well as meds.

All the criteria's though require a certain amount of symptoms to be present for more than a month. Any GP, psych or psychologist will be looking at how long the person has felt that way as well as how strong the content of it is.

However, you have hit upon the problem with self reports, the person self reporting may not know the difference whereas a mental health professional or a GP will.

Sadly though like many psychological terms depression is one of those terms that has become part of everyday language, and when this happens those terms may lose part of their original or professional meaning.

I did not think a thread like this would be helpful in AH when it started, but thankfully I think I was wrong, and the way that this thread has got people to speak openly about their mental health can only be a good thing. The only thing I would say to anybody who is asking the question am I depressed, go and speak to a professional, whether it’s their GP or a qualified therapist, in order to see a psychiatrist the person will need a referral from their GP, some will take referrals from a psychotherapist [I have a few who I will seen a client for me if I think the need is there], however, within the HSE the referral needs to come from the persons GP. Finally, if anybody is every feeling like they will harm themselves they can just present at A&E and ask to see a psychiatrist after they mention they feel like self-harming.

foxinsox

Vicxas wrote: »

Can i just ask, i dont know much about depression, but does it make you feel like you've no friends and no-one you can be close to?

I'm no expert, but it can at times, even though you might be surrounded by many people, many good friends and family who all genuinely care for you.

I think one of the main problems is actually putting into words or describing to someone how you feel. Then when you don't talk to someone about how you feel you "hold it all in" is my way of explaining it.

You can't hold it all in, your brain/body is not meant to deal with stress on a long term basis.. it's like the fear you feel if you think you hear a noise downstairs and you are in the house by yourself, do you know that feeling?

Well, if you "store" feelings inside and not share them, it is like having that feeling all the time, but your brain doesn't know how to deal with it, because there is no physical threat anymore but your brain/feelings are still "on alert" all the time and then you can be unsure of whats going on.

Like a pressure cooker... something needs to give.. so when you talk to a professional, they know how to deal with this, just by talking a lot of the "pressure" is released, even if you think it is a load of rubbish, it does help to talk.

All of that might sound silly, but that's sometimes how I've explained it to friends/family and I think they kind of get it.

Odysseus

foxinsox wrote: »

I think one of the main problems is actually putting into words or describing to someone how you feel. Then when you don't talk to someone about how you feel you "hold it all in" is my way of explaining it.

All of that might sound silly, but that's sometimes how I've explained it to friends/family and I think they kind of get it.

You have just described a good way of explaining psychotherapy, at the end of the day, from my position psychotherapy is about putting words on things. Others who work differently may diagree, but that is basically one of the ways I explain the one of the main aspects of psychotherapy.

yahoo_moe

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah c'mon, the difference between the finite of an otherwise healthy 18 year old and a 18 year old quadriplegic is... well huge. So comparing the two is frankly bollocks.

I'm not comparing or equating the two at all - I just didn't think it's a great definition of 'terminal' as it was.

I get what you're saying overall, just clarifying the finite = terminal thing. Possibly pedantic, possibly necessary

Wibbs

Odysseus wrote: »

A case of severe depressive illness will generally require the person to be in a hospital and they may need treatments like ECT as well as meds.

Whatever about meds, IMHO ECT Electroconvulsive therapy/electro shock therapy is up there with quackery.

ntlbell

Wibbs wrote: »

Whatever about meds, IMHO ECT Electroconvulsive therapy/electro shock therapy is up there with quackery.

may aswell go the whole hog and bring back lobotomies

seanybiker

Have me weekly session on a minute. Should be fun. I'm brutal at putting into words how I feel so I feel sorry for the poor chap. Ah sure no harm in trying it anyways.

starviewadams

Just finished my weekly session with psychologist,always feel much more positive about things after coming out of there,almost like getting my brain massaged,if that makes any sense!

seanybiker

starviewadams wrote: »

Just finished my weekly session with psychologist,always feel much more positive about things after coming out of there,almost like getting my brain massaged,if that makes any sense!

snap. My chap is just done aswell. Ya do feel a lot better about things.

Scanlas The 2nd

I think everyone suffering from depression should read "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle. I'd be fairly certain it would hugely help a significant percentage here with depression.

pheasant tail

Can i ask has anybody any experience with st patricks as an inpatient???

seanybiker

pheasant tail wrote: »

Can i ask has anybody any experience with st patricks as an inpatient???

Tbh I can't see people wanting to post here saying they where in there. Could be wrong though.

Mars Bar

pheasant tail wrote: »

Can i ask has anybody any experience with st patricks as an inpatient???

You'll probably be better going to the Long Term Illness forum in the Science section to get an answer to that.

Novella

Vicxas wrote: »

Can i just ask, i dont know much about depression, but does it make you feel like you've no friends and no-one you can be close to?

I can't talk about people with depression in general, but for me, it's loads of different things. Sometimes I think I have lots of friends but can't help but wonder why they'd wanna be friends with me. Other times, yeah, I do find it hard to be close to people. That's my own fault though - it's hard when someone asks you over and over, "What's wrong with you?" and you don't really know, there's nothing wrong that you can put into words.

There have been so many times when the space between myself and another person felt as wide as an ocean even though they were right beside me... Just because I didn't know how to describe how I felt. They, of course, ended up feeling pushed away and I left feeling frustrated.

When it comes to people I know really care about me, I can't be close to them with this aspect of my life because the thought of them being upset or hurt, I can't deal with. Someone once said to me that it drove them crazy that they weren't enough to make me happy and I've felt guilty about that ever since.

So it's not that I think I have no friends, sometimes it's just harder to see it, and I'm so sure that there are people I could be close to and talk to but for me, it's mostly easier not to, I think.

Paddy The Pirate

I'm one of those people who's depressed at the moment and is getting treatment, 13 going on 14 months i think it's been now and still no sign of getting better, I find people tell me it's alwayws going to get better, it just takes time, but it can feel like they only say it to make me feel better, which is true I guess.

Ups and downs was how I would describe who my week, month, day since I had last seen them had gone, but it seems like it's more of a feeling of down and down and down...

Everything seems like a struggle, school? Getting out of bed? Excercise? Sleep even seems a struggle, I can't get to sleep then I sleep to long, my appetite disappears then comes back with a vengeance, nothing is stable, and life seems to be nothing but a struggle against a rising tide.

I don't want depression and i empathise with anyone else who's going through it, but the thing I like to point out, is that there's ALWAYS something worth staying around for.

Sorry about the rambling post, just saw the thread now.

AckwelFoley

Paddy The Pirate wrote: »

I'm one of those people who's depressed at the moment and is getting treatment, 13 going on 14 months i think it's been now and still no sign of getting better, I find people tell me it's alwayws going to get better, it just takes time, but it can feel like they only say it to make me feel better, which is true I guess.

Ups and downs was how I would describe who my week, month, day since I had last seen them had gone, but it seems like it's more of a feeling of down and down and down...

Everything seems like a struggle, school? Getting out of bed? Excercise? Sleep even seems a struggle, I can't get to sleep then I sleep to long, my appetite disappears then comes back with a vengeance, nothing is stable, and life seems to be nothing but a struggle against a rising tide.

I don't want depression and i empathise with anyone else who's going through it, but the thing I like to point out, is that there's ALWAYS something worth staying around for.

Sorry about the rambling post, just saw the thread now.

The younger you are the worse it can be. I remember when i was 16 or 17, your hormones are all over the place and i dont think at that age you rightly know yourself, i didnt anyway - when you are older you at least can focus better on your personal issues and the causes of them rather than have to deal with the craziness of being an adolescent on top of the depression

Dues Bellator

Paddy The Pirate wrote: »

I'm one of those people who's depressed at the moment and is getting treatment, 13 going on 14 months i think it's been now and still no sign of getting better, I find people tell me it's alwayws going to get better, it just takes time, but it can feel like they only say it to make me feel better, which is true I guess.

Ups and downs was how I would describe who my week, month, day since I had last seen them had gone, but it seems like it's more of a feeling of down and down and down...

Everything seems like a struggle, school? Getting out of bed? Excercise? Sleep even seems a struggle, I can't get to sleep then I sleep to long, my appetite disappears then comes back with a vengeance, nothing is stable, and life seems to be nothing but a struggle against a rising tide.

I don't want depression and i empathise with anyone else who's going through it, but the thing I like to point out, is that there's ALWAYS something worth staying around for.

Sorry about the rambling post, just saw the thread now.

hi im just reading tru your post there , there are alot of forums online with a lot of people going tru what you are right now , i know medhelp.org really helped me a while back , il post the link below . best of luck

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/list

Paddy The Pirate

snyper wrote: »

The younger you are the worse it can be. I remember when i was 16 or 17, your hormones are all over the place and i dont think at that age you rightly know yourself, i didnt anyway - when you are older you at least can focus better on your personal issues and the causes of them rather than have to deal with the craziness of being an adolescent on top of the depression

And yeah, it does seem to be that way, 15 now only just, and all the things you mentioned sure do make it worse, but I guess tahts what I have to live with

Paddy The Pirate

almanu wrote: »

hi im just reading tru your post there , there are alot of forums online with a lot of people going tru what you are right now , i know medhelp.org really helped me a while back , il post the link below . best of luck

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/list

Thank you I'll have a look there

K-9

Wibbs wrote: »

Whatever about meds, IMHO ECT Electroconvulsive therapy/electro shock therapy is up there with quackery.

Why do you think that?

I know very little about it, but I've heard reports it has positive responses, nobody seems to know why though!

It seems to be one of those areas, science doesn't have a clue on and can't really dismiss it as quackery. It just doesn't know.

Sardonicat

K-9 wrote: »

Why do you think that?

I know very little about it, but I've heard reports it has positive responses, nobody seems to know why though!

It seems to be one of those areas, science doesn't have a clue on and can't really dismiss it as quackery. It just doesn't know.

If they don't have a clue about how or why it works in SOME cases, then it isn't remotely scientific and is on a par with quakery. Has a dreadful effect on memory, from what i have heard from people who have had it done. A horrible thing and utterly barbaric.

Dues Bellator

Paddy The Pirate wrote: »

Thank you I'll have a look there

you should do paddy, there are 100s posting daily and its good to get into dialog with people who are showing the same problems as you, i know there are plenty of lads and lasses your own age posting there too. dont forget if you feel your meds are not working , its very important you tell your doctor as its fairly hit and miss with GPs in regards to treating depression , thats my experiance anyway.
this might sound silly but have you tried doing an activity once a week that you enjoy, like swimming , football or anything thats gets you out of the house , personally i started going swimming once a week a few years ago and i still go now, i just feel really good after it .
also i dont know if you do or not but if you smoke weed it will make your problem a million times worse, the reason im saying this is that your young and its rife in your age group. i knocked it on the head a while back and ive never felt better.:D

Paddy The Pirate

almanu wrote: »

you should do paddy, there are 100s posting daily and its good to get into dialog with people who are showing the same problems as you, i know there are plenty of lads and lasses your own age posting there too. dont forget if you feel your meds are not working , its very important you tell your doctor as its fairly hit and miss with GPs in regards to treating depression , thats my experiance anyway.
this might sound silly but have you tried doing an activity once a week that you enjoy, like swimming , football or anything thats gets you out of the house , personally i started going swimming once a week a few years ago and i still go now, i just feel really good after it .
also i dont know if you do or not but if you smoke weed it will make your problem a million times worse, the reason im saying this is that your young and its rife in your age group. i knocked it on the head a while back and ive never felt better.:D

Right, well I'm gonna try that website, and yeah the only thing i do really is airsoft once a week on a sunday. And no, I don't smoke weed, Not my scene to be honest

Dues Bellator

Paddy The Pirate wrote: »

Right, well I'm gonna try that website, and yeah the only thing i do really is airsoft once a week on a sunday. And no, I don't smoke weed, Not my scene to be honest

airsoft , im gonna have a look at that myself:D

Acacia

Novella wrote: »

... there's nothing wrong that you can put into words.

There have been so many times when the space between myself and another person felt as wide as an ocean even though they were right beside me... Just because I didn't know how to describe how I felt. They, of course, ended up feeling pushed away and I left feeling frustrated.

When it comes to people I know really care about me, I can't be close to them with this aspect of my life because the thought of them being upset or hurt, I can't deal with. Someone once said to me that it drove them crazy that they weren't enough to make me happy and I've felt guilty about that ever since.

I can really relate to this. I think it's feeling that you can't tell people exactly what's wrong with you makes depression so much worse (again I can only speak from my own experiences.)

The feelings I have sometimes are shocking and frightening even to myself even though they are my own thoughts are feelings, if that makes any sense. I'm often hesitant to explain when I'm feeling really low, although some of the people I'm closest too have been through similar experiences themselves. A few of my close friends know I'm in counselling, my family would know that I experience suicidal feelings sometimes, but the only person I feel I can ring up at any time of the day or night and outwardly say "I feel like hurting myself" is my BF ( who ultimately persuaded me to have therapy). Of course, that's a lot of pressure/ responsibilty to put on somebody so I feel guilty as well, which makes things harder to share.

For me, I've worked hard at projecting an image of somebody who is strong, competent, cheerful , happy and friendly. I feel very vulnerable letting anybody see the 'real' me, so that's why it can sometimes feel like I don't have that many close friends to talk to, who know what's really going on.

Odysseus

Wibbs wrote: »

Whatever about meds, IMHO ECT Electroconvulsive therapy/electro shock therapy is up there with quackery.

Wouldn't be used in my clinic Wibbs, so I have never seen it happen. Heard reports from patients, spoken to psych's who have used that procedure. It's a last resort, but my understanding is that it does work with very severely depressed patients. It's not a "one flew over the cuckoo's nest" type intevention, it is used with severe cases where meds make no difference. Plus from from my discussions about it, it appears to me to help in those cases.

But it has to be say it's outside my field, but it is still used today.