Bitcoin - ###Mod Note in 1st Post - Please Read###

Kikin

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

To speculate, a lot of people who never heard of bitcoin before are talking about it, i was thinking of buying a few and hoping that they will rise another bit and then sell.

And you don't see any potential problems with a system like that?

Drumorig

alb wrote: »

I'm in a good mood today so If any people in the discussion here are still confused and want to see what the fuss is about. grab a wallet (I recommend multi-bit) and paste a receiving address here. I'll send you some.

That offer still going?!?
1AbbjiNWrmTDMoqf7JjYkPFzKFWhodaJyn

brokenarms

alb im not sure I have done this right.
Complete begineer .

1J2Pxg3SrwZ52nusPCodsSRuo25XrNkyJL

How do you copy and paste address from the wallet app? The normal method will not work.

The One Who Knocks

Drumorig wrote: »

That offer still going?!?
1AbbjiNWrmTDMoqf7JjYkPFzKFWhodaJyn

https://blockchain.info/address/1AbbjiNWrmTDMoqf7JjYkPFzKFWhodaJyn


That you alb?

Jesus how much did you make on them!?

Drumorig

The One Who Knocks wrote: »

https://blockchain.info/address/1AbbjiNWrmTDMoqf7JjYkPFzKFWhodaJyn


That you alb?

Jesus how much did you make on them!?

What are you on about, that's my address but if you want to send money to it I'll be alb or whoever you want me to be.
Those bitcoins I got for free, all profit, I did have a full one but lost most in a casino like an idiot :rolleyes:

I dunno whether to buy an android tablet or litecoins, hmm, decisions decisions :pac:

Mr. Incognito

I've started my own currency.

Noobcoins.

You mine them out of a programme you download. Azuri Natural Unlimited NoobCoins. (A.N.U.S)

Then we start some gimmicky websites about how they are not a ponzi scheme and get some friends in the media to drum up about how they have inflated so much from an initial value of nil, we can then use percentages like increase X thousand percent!

Then we get the Noobcoin holders, "Noobs" to tell all their friends about how it is the currency of the future and get THEM to invest too. We can even get them to muddy the waters about how normal currencies haven't been doing so well as they have had to be deflated to take account of property and investment bubbles compared with our Noobcoins who, being tied to no underlying value only speculation keep going up making them look better and better.

It's the currency of the future!!! We'll be BILLIONAIRES.

All we need is stupid people.

thunderdog

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I've started my own currency.

Noobcoins.

You mine them out of a programme you download. Azuri Natural Unlimited NoobCoins. (A.N.U.S)

Then we start some gimmicky websites about how they are not a ponzi scheme and get some friends in the media to drum up about how they have inflated so much from an initial value of nil, we can then use percentages like increase X thousand percent!

Then we get the Noobcoin holders, "Noobs" to tell all their friends about how it is the currency of the future and get THEM to invest too. We can even get them to muddy the waters about how normal currencies haven't been doing so well as they have had to be deflated to take account of property and investment bubbles compared with our Noobcoins who, being tied to no underlying value only speculation keep going up making them look better and better.

It's the currency of the future!!! We'll be BILLIONAIRES.

All we need is stupid people.

Sign me up! These sound great

The One Who Knocks

Drumorig wrote: »

What are you on about, that's my address but if you want to send money to it I'll be alb or whoever you want me to be.
Those bitcoins I got for free, all profit, I did have a full one but lost most in a casino like an idiot :rolleyes:

I dunno whether to buy an android tablet or litecoins, hmm, decisions decisions :pac:

I was on about the €100-ish transaction that went into your account lol :P

Fukuyama

This weekend's Financial Times had a big feature article on Bitcoins. They reckon Beijing are going to recognize it as a legit currency.

That'd ruin an US attempt to destroy the currency.

Of course, two things could happen once they recognize it. It'll either skyrocket - or fall like a led balloon.

Nevertheless, the fact that Bitcoin is getting the kind of in depth coverage is a good sign - and makes the nay-sayers look like the loonies now.

A lot of "gullible idiots" are all now very rich.

Dean0088

Dean0088 wrote: »

A lot of "gullible idiots" are all now very rich.

On paper. We were all property millionaires a few years ago, remember. The gullible fools are the ones who buy high, not the ones who spent a few dollars years ago. The real question is, what's 'high'?

I don't understand the hoopla arising from Chinese recognition of the currency. Does it make even on iota difference to Bitcoin as it currently exists? You still can't take payment in them like you can with traditional currencies, and wont be able to do for a long time with $100+- swings happening hourly.

If anything, as time goes on, Bitcoin becomes less likely to be usable for any kind of transactions that don't revolve around trading the bitcoins for cash themselves.

harryr711

Dean0088 wrote: »

This weekend's Financial Times had a big feature article on Bitcoins. They reckon Beijing are going to recognize it as a legit currency.

That'd ruin an US attempt to destroy the currency.

Of course, two things could happen once they recognize it. It'll either skyrocket - or fall like a led balloon.

Nevertheless, the fact that Bitcoin is getting the kind of in depth coverage is a good sign - and makes the nay-sayers look like the loonies now.

A lot of "gullible idiots" are all now very rich.

The US aren't going to attempt to destroy bitcoin. If you paid any attention to recent news you'd know that.

In-depth, but more importantly balanced coverage is important in order to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of bitcoin and its usefulness, because let's face it, there is a lot of ignorance amongst both advocates and detractors.

JONJO THE MISER

Dean0088 wrote: »

This weekend's Financial Times had a big feature article on Bitcoins. They reckon Beijing are going to recognize it as a legit currency.

That'd ruin an US attempt to destroy the currency.

Of course, two things could happen once they recognize it. It'll either skyrocket - or fall like a led balloon.

Nevertheless, the fact that Bitcoin is getting the kind of in depth coverage is a good sign - and makes the nay-sayers look like the loonies now.

A lot of "gullible idiots" are all now very rich.

Nothing like seeing the people who thought everybody was a fool to buy them now seeing the fools being worth hundreds of thousands.
These so called fools are now set for life while the naysayers who knew it all have nothing except the believe that they still know it all.

Mint Aero

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I've started my own currency.

Noobcoins.

You mine them out of a programme you download. Azuri Natural Unlimited NoobCoins. (A.N.U.S)

Then we start some gimmicky websites about how they are not a ponzi scheme and get some friends in the media to drum up about how they have inflated so much from an initial value of nil, we can then use percentages like increase X thousand percent!

Then we get the Noobcoin holders, "Noobs" to tell all their friends about how it is the currency of the future and get THEM to invest too. We can even get them to muddy the waters about how normal currencies haven't been doing so well as they have had to be deflated to take account of property and investment bubbles compared with our Noobcoins who, being tied to no underlying value only speculation keep going up making them look better and better.

It's the currency of the future!!! We'll be BILLIONAIRES.

All we need is stupid people.

I'll trade ya 0.5 Bitcoins for 10,000 noobs and a pizza please

KyussBishop

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Nothing like seeing the people who thought everybody was a fool to buy them now seeing the fools being worth hundreds of thousands.
These so called fools are now set for life while the naysayers who knew it all have nothing except the believe that they still know it all.

I wonder if these 'fools' are so sure of Bitcoin's lasting value, that they are going to hold onto them long-term?
Or instead, are they cashing out, in full knowledge that what they're participating in works like a Ponzi scheme, where people must lose for them to win?

If these 'fools' tout the benefits of Bitcoin, while permanently cashing out at the peak of this boom, that suggests their touting of Bitcoin is dishonest (otherwise they would hold onto their Bitcoin's), and that they know they are unethically profiting from the eventual Ponzi-like losses of many many other people.

I say to these people: Put your money where your mouth is, and hold onto your Bitcoin's long-term, instead of cashing out now. Lets see how much you really believe in it.


If you are knowingly participating in a ponzi-like bubble for profit, that's a very unethical thing to do (which is the reason ponzi/pyramid schemes are illegal), and it's not victimless - to know this (which not everyone does, I'm sure there are some 'true believers') and to participate anyway, is quite a shít thing to do.

For the 'true believers', I think they are not being smart about this but I don't really judge them harshly, but for the more cynical people who know their profits will be built on many other peoples losses, and don't care, I think they are scumbags.

xploderz

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Nothing like seeing the people who thought everybody was a fool to buy them now seeing the fools being worth hundreds of thousands.
These so called fools are now set for life while the naysayers who knew it all have nothing except the believe that they still know it all.

There's a lot of advantages of the bitcoin concept as a legitimate electronic currency (which I won't go into detail, things like fraud prevention, quick/easy/mobile payments, no inflation risk, etc)

But at the moment it's totally unfeasible to use as a currency because of it's volatility. Imagine I had €10,000 worth of bitcoins, and wanted to buy a car with them tomorrow. Why would I bother when they could be worth €20,000 in a few weeks time and I could get a bigger car. Or the flipside they could be worth €5,000 and I could only get a crap car. What I would do is trade them for euros where I can be fairly confident my €10k will still be €10k in a month's time.

None of the major online retailers will adapt bitcoin in a big way until the fluctuations calm down. It's too risky, what if I'm a retailer and sell €500,000 worth of merchandise, then go to cash in my bitcoins a week later (to pay wages/taxes/VAT/etc) and only receive €400,000 for them.

So as a "currency" right now it's as useful as chocolate teapot. What it is now = a speculative bubble. Yes some people will get rich and a lot will get poor. But just know what you are buying into and tread carefully. Experienced investors avoid these kind of markets like the plague.

Hopefully it will calm down and be useful as a legit currency, I would be happy to make and receive payments in btc in the future, but until it stabilizes I will stick to more standard methods like CC, cash, etc.

Sh1tbag OToole

I got 0.02 of a bitcoin off some free site in 2011. it was worth 2c then and tis about 20e now. Wish I would have bought 20 or 100e worth of bitcoins back then.

AtomicHorror

KyussBishop wrote: »

I wonder if these 'fools' are so sure of Bitcoin's lasting value, that they are going to hold onto them long-term?
Or instead, are they cashing out, in full knowledge that what they're participating in works like a Ponzi scheme, where people must lose for them to win?

If these 'fools' tout the benefits of Bitcoin, while permanently cashing out at the peak of this boom, that suggests their touting of Bitcoin is dishonest (otherwise they would hold onto their Bitcoin's), and that they know they are unethically profiting from the eventual Ponzi-like losses of many many other people.

I say to these people: Put your money where your mouth is, and hold onto your Bitcoin's long-term, instead of cashing out now. Lets see how much you really believe in it.


If you are knowingly participating in a ponzi-like bubble for profit, that's a very unethical thing to do (which is the reason ponzi/pyramid schemes are illegal), and it's not victimless - to know this (which not everyone does, I'm sure there are some 'true believers') and to participate anyway, is quite a shít thing to do.

For the 'true believers', I think they are not being smart about this but I don't really judge them harshly, but for the more cynical people who know their profits will be built on many other peoples losses, and don't care, I think they are scumbags.

Yeah, apparently there are a lot of people hoarding bitcoins long term, or trading against dollars but keeping the gains in BTC rather than dollars by buying back in. The tendency to hoard is actually used as a criticism against the currency by some. I'm not sure I get your argument, since surely people with real faith in the currency would be spending the currency and/or working to increase their share in the total pool of bitcoins.

I'm holding, because I think there's a reasonable probability that the currency has another 10-20x gains to be made against dollars before it starts to become relatively stable. At that point the sum of all BTC would have a total value of something like the GDP of a small country. Maybe it can go further still, I really wouldn't know.

AtomicHorror

xploderz wrote: »

There's a lot of advantages of the bitcoin concept as a legitimate electronic currency (which I won't go into detail, things like fraud prevention, quick/easy/mobile payments, no inflation risk, etc)

But at the moment it's totally unfeasible to use as a currency because of it's volatility. Imagine I had €10,000 worth of bitcoins, and wanted to buy a car with them tomorrow. Why would I bother when they could be worth €20,000 in a few weeks time and I could get a bigger car. Or the flipside they could be worth €5,000 and I could only get a crap car. What I would do is trade them for euros where I can be fairly confident my €10k will still be €10k in a month's time.

None of the major online retailers will adapt bitcoin in a big way until the fluctuations calm down. It's too risky, what if I'm a retailer and sell €500,000 worth of merchandise, then go to cash in my bitcoins a week later (to pay wages/taxes/VAT/etc) and only receive €400,000 for them.

So as a "currency" right now it's as useful as chocolate teapot. What it is now = a speculative bubble. Yes some people will get rich and a lot will get poor. But just know what you are buying into and tread carefully. Experienced investors avoid these kind of markets like the plague.

Hopefully it will calm down and be useful as a legit currency, I would be happy to make and receive payments in btc in the future, but until it stabilizes I will stick to more standard methods like CC, cash, etc.

I think most businesses dealing in BTC just exchange them for more stable currencies daily. Although there's a lag time for actually withdrawing from exchanges, the conversion to dollars can be done instantly.

IvaBigWun

The value of one Bitcoin has surpassed $1,000 on the Mt. Gox exchange.

It's actually now at $1,030.

Demand has surged this month as demand from China picked up, and the digital currency received coverage as it underwent two days of Senate hearings. Ben Bernanke also issued a statement saying digital currencies like Bitcoin "may hold long term promise," though this referred more to the innovations in payment processing they were ushering in — he did not endorse Bitcoin itself, nor did he suggest the future of commerce lay in virtual money.

More @ http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-1000-2013-11#ixzz2lsDOifuQ

Mint Aero

IvaBigWun wrote: »

More @ http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-1000-2013-11#ixzz2lsDOifuQ

I wish I got into this earlier. Heard about it 2 yrs ago, thought nothing of it, seen they were up to about 20 bucks a year ago and thought that be as high as they'd ever go.

Seaneh

LOL at the people at the start of this thread telling people "if you have any sell them now, it's never going to be worth anything, it's a scam, it's only for idiots".

I just wish I still had the few I mined over a few weeks in early 2010.

Seaneh

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

On paper. We were all property millionaires a few years ago, remember. The gullible fools are the ones who buy high, not the ones who spent a few dollars years ago. The real question is, what's 'high'?

I don't understand the hoopla arising from Chinese recognition of the currency. Does it make even on iota difference to Bitcoin as it currently exists? You still can't take payment in them like you can with traditional currencies, and wont be able to do for a long time with $100+- swings happening hourly.

If anything, as time goes on, Bitcoin becomes less likely to be usable for any kind of transactions that don't revolve around trading the bitcoins for cash themselves.

If you mined 100 coins in 2009 (not a whole lot of effort at the time, set up a dedicated pc and leave it running for a while) and sold them now, you've got $100,000. A lot of people did this, as it cost them (next to) nothing, old pc you don't use and electricity were the only costs incurred. Or even better, if you just bought 100 of them at $0.50 each, your $50 is worth €100,000 now.

But yeah, you're right, those people are all idiots, because you said so.

I know a few lads who had pretty hefty wallets at various stages

Nemeses2050

"Integral to Bitcoin is a public transaction ledger and log known as the blockchain, which shows who owns how many bitcoins currently and records the participants in all prior transactions as well. By keeping a record of all transactions, the blockchain prevents double-spending (copying one bitcoin and spending it in multiple different places) because the record shows that once a bitcoin has been spent, the previous owner no longer controls it.[14] The blockchain is maintained not by a central body but by a distributed network of computers that run a program to solve cryptographic puzzles relating to information in the blockchain.[14] Users who devote computing power to maintaining the blockchain this way are called "miners" because they are awarded in bitcoin when they are first to solve such puzzles—mining is how new bitcoins are generated.[14] The mathematical calculations performed by miners' computers serve to verify that each transaction is valid and add the information to the blockchain.[15] As more bitcoins come into circulation, the puzzles involved in mining them become increasingly difficult, and the rewards are halved at regular intervals, until 21 million bitcoins have been created and production stops.[14] As Bitcoin achieves wider recognition and more people compete to mine the coins, competition for the limited number of bitcoins awarded for solving the cryptographic puzzles becomes more steep and more powerful computers are needed in order to compete—a fact which has spawned a technology boom in sales of Bitcoin mining technology."

This sums up what a load of bollix this bitcoin is. You earn them by solving puzzles :eek:. In real world you need to work to earn money unless you're a dodgy dealer or some speculator.

alb

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

This sums up what a load of bollix this bitcoin is. You earn them by solving puzzles :eek:. In real world you need to work to earn money unless you're a dodgy dealer or some speculator.

Bitcoin is very much in the real world. The mining is work. Miners solve the 'cryptograhic puzzles' (which is a badly dumbed down phrase for what it actually is, btw) as proof they did work, and also verify the transactions in the network. It means no one can attempt to validate bogus transactions without doing more work than the majority of the network. This keeps it secure.

If you want to call it bogus based on some dumbed down description go ahead, but to discredit it among people who understand how and why it works you're going to need to find some holes in the original whitepaper: http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

mickdw

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

This sums up what a load of bollix this bitcoin is. You earn them by solving puzzles :eek:. In real world you need to work to earn money unless you're a dodgy dealer or some speculator.

Whatever you think of it and Im not convinced myself of the security of holding them, the fact remains that if you bought into them say 2.5 years ago when prices were in the region of 10 to 20 dollars, you could now be cashing out at 50 to 100 times investment. Now I guess realistically most would have cashed out some or all of their investment long before now but still some crazy returns in real hard cash.

Seaneh

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

This sums up what a load of bollix this bitcoin is. You earn them by solving puzzles :eek:. In real world you need to work to earn money unless you're a dodgy dealer or some speculator.

As opposed to fiat money, which banks create, from nothing, and has no intrinsic value and nothing to back it up besides the say so of a central bank?

How is that any different?

Nemeses2050

Seaneh wrote: »

As opposed to fiat money, which banks create, from nothing, and has no intrinsic value and nothing to back it up besides the say so of a central bank?

How is that any different?

There's your answer

HighClass

Litecoin have now gone up to just under $50. Can see them going up a lot more in the next few weeks. I was reading loads into Bitcoin last year but didn't really think about buying into them as I only thought they would be used for buying things on The Silk Road. Oh well

Max Keiser will be on ITV news tonight as well talking about BTC so I'd expect that to put the price up a bit again.

Cantona's Collars

What about this poor fecker who threw out a hard drive last year,the bitcoins he amassed would have been worth around €6 million.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2514580/Bitcoins-worth-4m-hard-drive-thrown-Newport-landfill-accident.html

I am pie

It would be great if you could actually "cash out"

Apparently if you try to cash out on the most popular exchange mgtox they say it will take several months for the money to hit your irish bank account.

Now, given that this currency is generated for free or has been bought by people at anything from 5 to 10% of it's current value, where do people think the money is coming from to pay up when people want to cash out?

If you can't cash out, it's all for nothing surely.