Homeless animals in Galway

Discodog

inisboffin wrote: »

So if someone decides they can't keep a puppy it is grand to slit its throat and eat it? I am frankly sick to death of this double standard of some animals humanlike, some animals not. Cruelty is cruelty, full stop.

Some people would argue, discodog, that eating meat IS cruelty to animals, in that it is unnecessary.

No because they are not qualified to kill it humanely & there are animal protein alternatives.

Eating meat is not cruelty. Humanely killing an animal never constitutes cruelty - every Vet would be guilty. It is the quality of life that constitutes cruelty in farming such as battery hens, veal calves etc. The excellent organisation Compassion in World Farming show that you can farm without being cruel.

If we killed Cows the way that we kill foxes, by chasing them with a pack of dogs, then very few people would eat beef.

If I am wrong about us Irish then I assume that we buy lots of free range foods - do we ?

softmee

EGAR wrote: »

So, yes, Ireland is extremely backwards when it comes to the care of its animals. And I am in a good position to judge this.

I lived in few european coutries and just to let you know -i have to admit the country where i come from ( Poland) is even worse unfortunately.. and i dont know if its good or bad, but i the cities there is much more many homeless animals, maybe because cities are bigger and its harder to control it, i dont know. I remember country holidays and all the dogs tied to the kennels with chains with no water during extremely hot summers ,no shadow - nothing. I was always fighting with farmers about it and they just didnt care. Their simple minds just dont get it. Animals are made for humans to use them and thats it. (Discodog neighours philosophy).
Anyway this thread probably will be moved to animal issues, so to avoid this i would suggest keeping it open for some reason. We could use it to share news about homeless/mistreated animals .
It should be easier to react and help if there is need for this. I know now i wont get help from officials and rescues are not always able to help, so this might be the other way of helping.

inisboffin

Discodog wrote: »

No because they are not qualified to kill it humanely & there are animal protein alternatives.

Eating meat is not cruelty. Humanely killing an animal never constitutes cruelty - every Vet would be guilty. It is the quality of life that constitutes cruelty in farming such as battery hens, veal calves etc. The excellent organisation Compassion in World Farming show that you can farm without being cruel.

If we killed Cows the way that we kill foxes, by chasing them with a pack of dogs, then very few people would eat beef.

If I am wrong about us Irish then I assume that we buy lots of free range foods - do we ?

Right, I can see that we fundamentally see animal welfare differently. By your own statement, we do not need to eat *any animals*, therefore killing them (however humanely) is just for our own profit and unnecessary. I never said eating meat is cruelty. But the fact that you are telling me the meat industry is completely 'humane' in the western world is at best dubious.
There is a lot of cruelty in mass farming, and that's pretty common knowledge.

In terms of the farming industry, I think we have a lot less 'mass farming' here, where livestock are fed hormones and ground up versions of the same species than other places. But again, I am assuming that everyone on here has researched their facts if they are accusing the majority of the nation of animal cruelty. You tell me.

If it were simply about eating 'humanely' killed animals, then there would be no reason why you couldn't get dog steak at the butchers. It is about double standards. Just like we treat humans with differences unequally.

The irony is I agree with you about many atrocities like fox hunting and letting animals starve, I just think we conveniently turn a blind eye when it doesn't suit our 'needs' like the meat industry. I honestly don't care whether a farmer takes care of his cows well for money reasons or takes care of his horse well for reasons of compassion, as long as the animal IS well cared for.

I don't want this thread to be closed because of going way off topic, so please feel free to pm me if you want to. The important thing is not who is worse, but how we can fix it here. In our country, with our issues and our temperament and our resources.

EGAR

I am not Irish, softmee and Poland is still battling with the poverty that was rampant during the Iron Curtain age - none of that applies to Ireland.

Discodog

inisboffin wrote: »

. The important thing is not who is worse, but how we can fix it here. In our country, with our issues and our temperament and our resources.

Most of Europe has the same issues & pro rata resources. The English & Welsh population donated €140 million to the RSPCA in 2008 so that's about €3 per person. If the Irish followed suit then the ISPCA would get €14 million but I bet that they don't.

So maybe it is an issue of temperament. Maybe to avoid injuring our Irish pride we should keep quiet & hope it gets better - where have we heard that before ?.

A friend of mine farms mountain sheep in Wales. They graze in the remotest areas. If one of his sheep develops a limp he will hear about it within hours because someone will spot it, maybe a tourist/walker, they will phone the RSPCA who will call my friend. How long could you leave a sheep with a limp in Ireland before someone reported it ?.

You can't make people care. Ireland will improve but it will take decades to reach the standards of much of Europe & by then they will of become even better. If the majority here cared about animal welfare we could turn it around in 12 months.

NatalieA

About strays. Ireland has far less stray animals that some european contries. And it's different everywhere. Ever seen stray cats in Spain? They strong and fit, they catch birds for dinner!
In Latvia lots of cats outside, hard to tell, strays or not, majority has no collars and well fed. But some are wild, they live in bacements and have kittens there. People feed them, but it's hard to catch a kitten. Some try if want a pet to live at home. People love cats. Lots of people have more than 1 cat, they run free but come home to eat. Also people feed homeless cats and any cats that seem hungry, outside, if can't take them home. So some cats get fed by few households. Knew a cat that was visiting few apartments, eat and sleep there, then go outside, visit another family. 2 ladys couldn't decide whos pet it is Visited when was hot, like in Spain, near appartments on the grass there were 5+ cats and some dogs, laying down on the grass, in close proximity too hot to be bothered to bark or hiss.
In Ireland it's hard to spot a cat. I wanted one, no pet shop has them only was able to adopt a kitten from a pet farm. Lots of people don't know how to keep a cat, how to train it. When somebody visits with children, they usually scared of the cat , but find it so interesting, poor kitty can't find a place to hide. Cat is so good with my children. I feel sorry for those who never had a cat or dog as a child.

EGAR

Natalie, Ireland is RIPE will feral cat colonies which alot of rescues like myself try to reduce by trapping, neuter and release (TNR) and WHY on earth should cats be sold in petshops? Give me strength...

Do you have any idea how many adult dogs and pups end up in pounds every year? Obviously not, as per capita Ireland has a HUGE stray problem.

And it is yet again obvious that education is sadly lacking in those areas..

Das Kitty

My Mam was telling me that the Guards removed all the horses from Carrowbrowne during the week. Apparently they were left without food and water (and shelter obviously) during the freeze and a foal and mare died

I'm glad the horses were removed but I doubt there will be any convictions arising from it.

inisboffin

Discodog wrote: »

A friend of mine farms mountain sheep in Wales. They graze in the remotest areas. If one of his sheep develops a limp he will hear about it within hours because someone will spot it, maybe a tourist/walker, they will phone the RSPCA who will call my friend. How long could you leave a sheep with a limp in Ireland before someone reported it ?.

Are you really asking this question? Are we ok with anecdotal evidence now, in which case my experience is very different to yours. To answer your question I have one family member and one friend who are sheep farmers, one in Galway one in NW, and they DO get calls about injured sheep.

Please can you stop talking about the 'majority' of Irish people not caring about animals. It is a sweeping statement, and 'caring' is obviously a word we use very differently.

inisboffin

Das Kitty wrote: »

My Mam was telling me that the Guards removed all the horses from Carrowbrowne during the week. Apparently they were left without food and water (and shelter obviously) during the freeze and a foal and mare died

I'm glad the horses were removed but I doubt there will be any convictions arising from it.

Do you know if any were re-homed? I know someone had offered to take in two of the mares but didn't hear any more.

Das Kitty

inisboffin wrote: »

Do you know if any were re-homed? I know someone had offered to take in two of the mares but didn't hear any more.

That's the extent of my knowledge. They deserve a second chance the poor yokes have been neglected there for a lot longer than 2 weeks.

NatalieA

EGAR wrote: »

Natalie, Ireland is RIPE will feral cat colonies which alot of rescues like myself try to reduce by trapping, neuter and release (TNR) and WHY on earth should cats be sold in petshops? Give me strength...

Do you have any idea how many adult dogs and pups end up in pounds every year? Obviously not, as per capita Ireland has a HUGE stray problem.

And it is yet again obvious that education is sadly lacking in those areas..

Sadly, no. Only people working in shelters or otherwise involved know about things like that. I am trying to do what I can, I live food where I know one of the cats comes. Only it always runs away if sees me. Me and kids feed birds, and not only ducks, but also wild ones near the river. Met a dog in the park, took picture, not shure if has owner. Has a collar but was afraid to look, wery good friendly dog, was playing with us, bringing sticks and stones for us. Then ran away, so maybe just was let out?
Once found a cat near Dunnes, little fimale, was so hungry was trying to eate a nut shell! And nobody stopped. Me and my daughter got some food from the shop, some cat food too, she was still there. We gave her food and felt so sorry for her, was so small like a kitten, really, took her home. People, probably thought I was mad, with buggy and a baby picking up some cat, putting it under my coat. Don't know how was able to walk home, holding cat and pushing buggy. Funny thing. Cat was not a kitten, but pregnant mum! in no time I had 6 cats at home. ( already had one, plus mum +4 kittens). Was hard to find homes for them. All my friends sought I was mad! 2 short of a cat lady !trying calculate how many cats I will have in a year or too.
I like dogs too, but wouldn't know what to do with one, how to train ut.c. But cats are my weakness, always been. My kitty, the first one, from pet farm, like another child. She's my little girl. We understand each other wery well. Can't understand people who will harm a dog, or a cat. They are our companions.

Discodog

inisboffin wrote: »

Are you really asking this question? Are we ok with anecdotal evidence now, in which case my experience is very different to yours. To answer your question I have one family member and one friend who are sheep farmers, one in Galway one in NW, and they DO get calls about injured sheep.

Please can you stop talking about the 'majority' of Irish people not caring about animals. It is a sweeping statement, and 'caring' is obviously a word we use very differently.

There were sheep near me that had their legs tied every year - to stop them jumping over walls. The blue plastic rope cut into their legs. No one complained even though loads of people walked past every day.

Talking about the majority is not a sweeping statement. If the majority cared then the majority would of demanded action & better welfare laws. If the cat in wheelie bin lady incident had happened here it might of just made the news. In the UK she lost her job, & had to go into hiding with Police protection.

I wonder if people are more offended at our precious nationality being criticised than they are about the welfare of animals. Of course some people care but the majority do not & I will keep saying that until there is proper evidence to show otherwise which will not be any time soon. At the moment there is damming evidence to show that the majority give animal welfare a far lower priority than in many other countries.

Pro rata we give loads of money to charity. For example, as a country, we gave generously to the Haiti appeal. But for some reason we do not give in the same way to animal welfare as other countries do.

inisboffin

Discodog wrote: »

There were sheep near me that had their legs tied every year - to stop them jumping over walls. The blue plastic rope cut into their legs. No one complained even though loads of people walked past every day.

Talking about the majority is not a sweeping statement. If the majority cared then the majority would of demanded action & better welfare laws. If the cat in wheelie bin lady incident had happened here it might of just made the news. In the UK she lost her job, & had to go into hiding with Police protection.

I wonder if people are more offended at our precious nationality being criticised than they are about the welfare of animals. Of course some people care but the majority do not & I will keep saying that until there is proper evidence to show otherwise which will not be any time soon. At the moment there is damming evidence to show that the majority give animal welfare a far lower priority than in many other countries.

Pro rata we give loads of money to charity. For example, as a country, we gave generously to the Haiti appeal. But for some reason we do not give in the same way to animal welfare as other countries do.

Yes. You said it. We as a nation may have different priorities in terms of charity it seems. We often are one of the highest globally in terms of donation to disaster relief. Maybe as a nation we would prefer to give to human charities than animal charities. Maybe other countries give that money to animal welfare, maybe they spend it on bling, I don't know the answer to that, but I will leave it that I just disagree with you about about how the majority feel here in regard to cruelty.

We have very different anecdotal evidence it seems, and also very different opinions even on hierarchy and compassion in the animal kingdom. I offered to chat via pm so as not take this off the topic of homeless animals, but you didn't respond. If this thread is about doing something then let it be that, rather than a back and forth of shame and sarcasm which doesn't do much. If you have legislative petitions, fb pages, info etc about how to do this Discodog, then by all means post them and I will share them.

Like you said, you can't 'make' people care, you can just share the positive steps that people are taking.

Amhran Nua

Tranceypoo wrote: »

Well, you must live in a happy sunny place where everyone treats their dogs really well

No, I live in Ireland. I'm starting to suspect that yourself and posters like "Discodog" live in some sort of alternate dimension however, with horrors lurking behind every garden gate. I live in what could be loosely termed a lower middle class estate, not a poodle in sight...

Discodog wrote: »

If the presentation of fact is insulting then feel insulted.

35% of people own dogs? Rubbish. There's a name for people presenting anecdotes as fact in order to justify some sort of thinly veiled attack on an entire nation.

Discodog wrote: »

200,000 dog licenses were issued in 2009 - even that is hardly 10% & most people don't get a license.

What? How on earth would you know that most people don't get licences? Your little postmistress and her dusty shoebox anecdote? Come off it.

Discodog wrote: »

I am not going to move off topic with child abuse but yes I believe that elected politicians knew & so did a lot of the population.

Ah, so not only do you think that Irish people approve dog abuse, they also approve child abuse in your world, which is obviously related to the Hollyoaks and Eastenders perception of "furriners".

Discodog wrote: »

Of course people would not vote for animal abuse but neither are they clamouring for a poll to vote against it or even offering any support to those that are.

Protip, stop calling them thick child abusing puppy eaters and you might get somewhere there.

Discodog wrote: »

Great way to run a political party. I have heard that it's true so it must be !.

Anecdotes versus anecdotes, I'd have thought the point was clear.

Discodog wrote: »

By killing many times more unwanted animals than they do.

I see, well if you want to take that route, heres something to consider: how many people have you turned off being actively involved in animal rescue with your aggressive, prejuidiced and insulting demeanour, and therefore how many puppies are you responsible for abusing?

I mean you are aware that you're needlessly insulting people, you've admitted as much, so you must be aware that these people are less likely to help you and are thus prolonging the problem. At a minimum this must be causing at least as much trouble as any amount of oblivious people sailing through their lives, probably a great deal more.

Why do you hate puppies, discodog?

meoklmrk91

I'm even from Galway but I just had a couple of things that I would like to say.

For those of you who think that homechecks are OTT and invasive I understand where you are coming from but since the GSPCA and the like are voluntary organisations I think they have a right to be picky about the homes that the animals they look after go to. The time, effort and hard work that goes into these places is unbelievable. Also with regards to GSPCA refusing to rehome without an enclosed garden and to homes with children under 7, this may be to do with the insurance policy that the rescue has. Not saying it is just saying it might be as I know from working at a local animal shelter that policies can have some very strict and sometimes strange rules.

Also for anyone who is disillusioned by animal cruelty in Ireland I suggest you go and visit one the animal rescues in your area. I'm sure they would be grateful for the help and you could get yourself an education on the appalling things that are happening every day in this country and going without punishment.

softmee

softmee wrote: »

Anyway this thread probably will be moved to animal issues, so to avoid this i would suggest keeping it open for some reason. We could use it to share news about homeless/mistreated animals .
It should be easier to react and help if there is need for this. I know now i wont get help from officials and rescues are not always able to help, so this might be the other way of helping.

Thanks everyone for a huge response to this idea

dapto1

Seeing as some people are having trouble understanding Amhran Rua for some reason, here's the wiki entry on anecdotal evidence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

dapto1

EGAR wrote: »

Ireland is RIPE will feral cat colonies

This made me giggle like a schoolgirl.

softmee

dapto1 wrote: »

Seeing as some people are having trouble understanding Amhran Rua for some reason, here's the wiki entry on anecdotal evidence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

I havent opened this thread for your games, argueing and funny pictures.

softmee

I just looked at done deal website and first what i saw:

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/dogs/1759783

-why this is even legal?

" deerhound greyhound bitch fast bitch hare dog good for breeding lurchers "

Those people they trade dogs like they are just items ,i have no words.

:mad:

-or this:

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/dogs/1728231

"He has procuced many large litters"

This is just awful!

softmee

Most of the adds there are saying : " IKC registered" ,what is IKC?
How those dogs can be registered anywhere?

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/dogs/1756735

Mother can be seen? They are kept in a horror conditions, not socialised, not house trained.
This should be illegal.

This is all the source of the problem really. If they wont stop those people, there will be always lots suffering neclected dogs out there

softmee

The Irish Kennel Club. I am jst wondering if all those people lie or IKC standards are so low and they dont care.

Mrs OBumble

inisboffin wrote: »

Yes. You said it. We as a nation may have different priorities in terms of charity it seems. We often are one of the highest globally in terms of donation to disaster relief. Maybe as a nation we would prefer to give to human charities than animal charities.

Maybe. But you/we still have:

• No out-of-hours social work service for half the children in the state
• Psychiatric hospitals that were deemed not fit for human habitation years ago, but are still in use
• Asylum-seekers, including young children, living in hostel-style accommodation for years on end.

And it's only this year that you've admitted just how unacceptable your institutional childcare was right up until very recently (the last Magdalene laundry didn't close until 1996).

Somehow I think that in this country the attitudes towards animals are linked to the attitudes to vulnerable, and unpopular, human beings.

I'm a cat person. Was a serious cat lady in my last house (not in Ireland) ... only one cat, but very dotted up. Won't have a cat here 'cos it couldn't have access to the outdoors where I'm living now.

But even so, I'm more concerned about the way human beings are treated here than animals.

inisboffin

JustMary wrote: »

Maybe. But you/we still have:

• No out-of-hours social work service for half the children in the state
• Psychiatric hospitals that were deemed not fit for human habitation years ago, but are still in use
• Asylum-seekers, including young children, living in hostel-style accommodation for years on end.

And it's only this year that you've admitted just how unacceptable your institutional childcare was right up until very recently (the last Magdalene laundry didn't close until 1996).

Somehow I think that in this country the attitudes towards animals are linked to the attitudes to vulnerable, and unpopular, human beings.

I'm a cat person. Was a serious cat lady in my last house (not in Ireland) ... only one cat, but very dotted up. Won't have a cat here 'cos it couldn't have access to the outdoors where I'm living now.

But even so, I'm more concerned about the way human beings are treated here than animals.

You're absolutely right about all those inadequacies Just Mary, but when we make these statements and comparisons with other nations we HAVE to look at the bigger picture. Absolutely it could be linked that a repressed nation where institutional abuse existed to people, that there is also institutional abuse for animals.
But, there is a big difference between institutional abuse (and faulty systems) and individually the majority of people in this country being guilty of animal cruelty and abuse.

Conquering nations and new nations have very different social history to say colonised nations. It is a fact that per capita (I am low on batt so not going to google for stats, but feel free), Irish have one of the highest records for giving to aid programmes, on the flipside, yes we have the laundries, the clerical abuse, the banks. People need to become empowered to help. Education about this stuff is key, that's my point.
Shouting at the child that lived 5 doors down from 'the maggies' and blaming her for doing nothing (as she didn't know what was going on) is not as productive as educating people on *how* to help. We have enough guilt and shame behind us without (mostly unfairly) saying that 'the majority' of Irish are cruel/neglectful of animals.

Perhaps I am surrounded by saints but all my neighbours are wonderful animal owners. I currently don't keep any animals as I travel a bit, but am 'sitter' for gorgeous cats and dogs of my friends when I can. They are very well treated and very loved by their owners. I can only go on my own experience when (as someone pointed out in a wikilink) we are comparing anecdote to anecdote.

The 'hierarchy' of worthy animals is B*ll**** too. Don't tell me if someone set up a humanely killed, hand reared, satin sheeted kennel dog butchery here too, there wouldn't be uproar. Someone asked about horse meat in a thread a while back and the uproar was huge. Most of the people 'uproaring' were happy enough to eat other animals, and I guarantee you that not every person on this thread vets the farming practices connected to their kebab meat at 3 am. THIS worries me. A freezing horse gets photographed and there is huge press. A freezing calf is ignored.
THIS way of thinking is absolutely reflected in how we treat asylum seekers, 'non-nationals' and other groups too. Two sets of rules.

I guess I am lucky, I assume compassion, that's what I see around me, so I get it in my life, and hopefully pass it on.

dapto1

Inisboffin, that's a good point about the hierarchy of an animals. Completely agree.

softmee wrote: »

I havent opened this thread for your games, argueing and funny pictures.

You're new to this whole internet thing, aren't you?

Anyway, I was trying to help the discussion by providing a link to an explanation of anecdotal evidence, as there seemed to be some confusion about its meaning.

In conclusion: Get over yourself.

Discodog

Amhran Nua wrote: »

35% of people own dogs? Rubbish. There's a name for people presenting anecdotes as fact in order to justify some sort of thinly veiled attack on an entire nation.

Researchers have revealed new figures on the ownership of cats and dogs in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

The results show that Ireland is principally a dog-owning population, with more than three times as many households (35.6%) having one or more pet dogs compared to just 10.4% having one or more pet cats.

The figures differ to those from the UK, as a 2007 PFMA survey showed that 22% of UK households have dogs, while 18% have cats.

Lead author Dr Martin Downes, of the Centre for Veterinary Epidemiology and Risk Analysis at University College Dublin, said: “The differences between UK and Ireland are particularly interesting, given the close geographical, historical and cultural linkages between these two countries. In the UK dogs are less popular than in Ireland, whereas cats are more popular.

http://www.petproductmarketing.co.uk/content.php?sid=69

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Protip,

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I mean you are aware that you're needlessly insulting people,

I am not insulting anyone but I could make an exception in your case.

Discodog

JustMary wrote: »

But even so, I'm more concerned about the way human beings are treated here than animals.

Why does it have to be a matter of priorities ?. The Greens were rounded on for introducing a Dog Breeding Bill when there were more important priorities.

There will always be something that is more important that could take precedence but many countries decide that there are basic, instinctive rights that are an intrinsic part of society.

An Animal Welfare Bill will not cost anything. It can be drafted quickly & easily by copying those of other countries. The enforcement of legislation can be self financing.

Are we really saying that when every other problem is sorted that we will think about animal cruelty ?.

It is interesting that the RSPCA & Dogs Trust cite N.Ireland as the worst part of the UK for cruelty & neglect. So maybe it runs deeper than just a case of insufficient legislation.

From The Rough Guide to Ireland: "Finally one problem you may encounter, particularly in the West - is that of Farmer's dogs chasing & snarling at your wheels".

inisboffin

Discodog wrote: »

Lead author Dr Martin Downes, of the Centre for Veterinary Epidemiology and Risk Analysis at University College Dublin, said: “The differences between UK and Ireland are particularly interesting, given the close geographical, historical and cultural linkages between these two countries. In the UK dogs are less popular than in Ireland, whereas cats are more popular.

Revenge of the Cat People!

Discodog

Amhran Nua wrote: »

What? How on earth would you know that most people don't get licences? Your little postmistress and her dusty shoebox anecdote? Come off it.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Protip,

A free "protip" for you. Before you run the Country learn to use a calculator. I will make this as simple as I can.

Last Census shows 1.4 million households.

Dr Martin Downes, of the Centre for Veterinary Epidemiology and Risk Analysis at University College Dublin - who I would believe a lot more than you says that 35.6% of household have at least one dog. So that makes a minimum of 490,000 dogs & only 213,000 licenses were issued.

So even if we allow for just one dog per household. More people don't bother getting a license that those who do.

Simples