If Enda stood aside

Oasis_Dublin

Bertie Ahern did have a Degree from UCD in economics to be fair to him... oh no wait, he didn't, he told lies and people still voted him back in! Education means shag all, FFers constantly rant on about how intelligent a man Brian Cowen is but... well the argument makes itself.

yosemite_sam

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Bertie Ahern did have a Degree from UCD in economics to be fair to him... oh no wait, he didn't, he told lies and people still voted him back in! Education means shag all, FFers constantly rant on about how intelligent a man Brian Cowen is but... well the argument makes itself.

You're right, we have seen where brains have got us. It is now time for Enda

Jayuu

yosemite_sam wrote: »

You're right, we have seen where brains have got us. It is now time for Enda

At least the man has the courage to put himself out there and try to say what he thinks the country needs to get back on its feet. And I'm sure he probably knows quite well that he's not the best public speaker in the world.

It so easy to sit anonymously in front of a computer screen and post snide, smart-ass remarks. Do you think you could do better if you were put in charge of the country? If so get out there and let yourself be judged in the same manner.

Irish Slaves for Europe

Jayuu wrote: »

At least the man has the courage to put himself out there and try to say what he thinks the country needs to get back on its feet.

No he doesn't, hes been hiding away from the media for some time now.

Kenny had a chance to show leadership and integrity when that FG TD threatened to ruin the career of a garda for not allowing him to drink drive. Instead Kenny did NOTHING, thereby proving he is just as corrupt and just as much as a gombeen as anyone in FF.

later12

yosemite_sam wrote: »

Enda Kenny is a qualified primary school teacher, just the sort of qualification you need to run a country

Sean Lemass, one of the most pragmatic, forward looking and capable Taoisigh that we have ever had, as well as probably being the most respected across party lines, was a draper by trade.

This sort academic snobbery, as though most of the Dail are these very high brow thinkers, is just daft. Brian Cowen was a small town solicitor with about one years' experience of defending drunk drivers before progressing to politics, and Eamon Gilmore and his Pet Rabbit were professional pinkos.

Perhaps in using his experience of dealing with spoiled children, Enda Kenny can bring some cross party concensus to the governance of this country, much to its potential benefit. Perhaps he could also throw the public sector brats out in the yard, maintain order, improve our grades to AAA (maybe even with a gold star) and encourage the population into behaving like reasonable, intelligent adults.

Oasis_Dublin

Jayuu wrote: »

At least the man has the courage to put himself out there and try to say what he thinks the country needs to get back on its feet. And I'm sure he probably knows quite well that he's not the best public speaker in the world.

It so easy to sit anonymously in front of a computer screen and post snide, smart-ass remarks. Do you think you could do better if you were put in charge of the country? If so get out there and let yourself be judged in the same manner.

I could "have the courage" to do my job for 228,000€ per annum plus expenses.

irishh_bob

Irish Slaves for Europe wrote: »

No he doesn't, hes been hiding away from the media for some time now.

Kenny had a chance to show leadership and integrity when that FG TD threatened to ruin the career of a garda for not allowing him to drink drive. Instead Kenny did NOTHING, thereby proving he is just as corrupt and just as much as a gombeen as anyone in FF.

you overestimate how easy it is to ruin the career of a guard in this country , what sheehan said was nothing more than the ramblings of a pompous gob****e , storm in a teap cup

Liam Byrne

Irish Slaves for Europe wrote: »

Kenny had a chance to show leadership and integrity when that FG TD threatened to ruin the career of a garda for not allowing him to drink drive. Instead Kenny did NOTHING, thereby proving he is just as corrupt and just as much as a gombeen as anyone in FF.

Incorrect. An FG TD spouted ****e while drunk (not a particularly admirable trait, admittedly) but you CHOSE to interpret it as a threat.

Personally, I'd prefer someone who threatens something and doesn't do it to someone who doesn't threaten it and just goes and does it.....for all the ****e they've spouted, I never heard Ahern, Lenihan or Cowen actually verbally threaten to ruin the economy and cause hardship.

Ideally, I'd prefer neither, of course, but give me "mouthing off" over actually directly taking steps to do something (while telling those warning what those steps would lead to to do away with themselves) any day.

Not to mention O'Dea explicitly taking steps to ruin the career of a journalist.

Sully

Irish Slaves for Europe wrote: »

No he doesn't, hes been hiding away from the media for some time now.

You wont find anything about Kenny on the BCC/CNN etc. But if you pay enough attention, he is alive and well in local media.

Kenny had a chance to show leadership and integrity when that FG TD threatened to ruin the career of a garda for not allowing him to drink drive. Instead Kenny did NOTHING, thereby proving he is just as corrupt and just as much as a gombeen as anyone in FF.

Yeah. That does right him off as a leader. Terrible, for not interfering immediately and waiting for the TD to fall on his own sword without public interference from his party leader. :rolleyes:

There are ways and means of doing things and perhaps running wild to the press with "Ill kick him straight out!" wouldn't be the smartest. He stepped aside in due course, and didn't need a public interference from his party leader.

johnnyskeleton

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'd go slightly against the grain on this one.

I'd have to acknowledge that some people seem to put "charisma" over substance, and that is crucifying Enda & FG.

That said, those who do that are - for the most part - the people who would have fallen for Ahern's faux charisma, and look where that got us.

Kenny has proven to be a good leader for FG, acting as a manager rather than a captain, and putting both experienced performers and enthusiastic newcomers into relevant positions - the perfect examples being Varadkar and Noonan; when you can see those people talking sense then it instils far more confidence than having the leader themselves on spouting nonsense.....it's not just "a leader", it's a whole party that seems - for the most part - to have its act together.

So I'd actually be LESS likely to vote FG if some upstart wanted to become leader, because we'd be then dealing with someone who didn't have an impressive track record.

I only wish that people in Ireland put a premium on substance instead of (perceived) style.

It's not the lack of style/charisma that makes me dislike Kenny. It's that he's very soapy, and looks like if elected he will be just the same sort of gombeen as Ahern etc by giving jobs to the boys and getting elected with pure pork barrell politics.

So I would also put a premium on substance, but sadly Kenny doesn't have that either.

supersean1999

yosemite_sam wrote: »

Enda Kenny is a qualified primary school teacher, just the sort of qualification you need to run a country

what was your ff leader. who ruined the country:D

yosemite_sam

Jayuu wrote: »

At least the man has the courage to put himself out there and try to say what he thinks the country needs to get back on its feet. And I'm sure he probably knows quite well that he's not the best public speaker in the world.

It so easy to sit anonymously in front of a computer screen and post snide, smart-ass remarks. Do you think you could do better if you were put in charge of the country? If so get out there and let yourself be judged in the same manner.

I will have my chance to tell him exactly what I think of him in the coming weeks, as I am one of his constituents.

ghostdancer

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Kenny has proven to be a good leader for FG, acting as a manager rather than a captain, and putting both experienced performers and enthusiastic newcomers into relevant positions - the perfect examples being Varadkar and Noonan; when you can see those people talking sense then it instils far more confidence than having the leader themselves on spouting nonsense.....it's not just "a leader", it's a whole party that seems - for the most part - to have its act together.

i very much disagree with this.

he's rode on a wave that would have happened with or without him. if the economic collapse hadn't happened, FG would still be the opposition party come the next GE.

his management of his party, at least at the higher levels, has been shambolic, most obviously displayed in the Bruton leadership fiasco, which only failed as Bruton made a balls of it all.

the only reason Noonan is there now is because of that heave, he would still be on the sidelines if Bruton et al hadn't moved against Kenny and ticked him off.

syklops

ghostdancer wrote: »

i very much disagree with this.

he's rode on a wave that would have happened with or without him. if the economic collapse hadn't happened, FG would still be the opposition party come the next GE.

his management of his party, at least at the higher levels, has been shambolic, most obviously displayed in the Bruton leadership fiasco, which only failed as Bruton made a balls of it all.

the only reason Noonan is there now is because of that heave, he would still be on the sidelines if Bruton et al hadn't moved against Kenny and ticked him off.

I think he handled the Bruton mutiny very well. For someone who is spouted as being everything from incompetent, to unintelligent, lacking experience, just a school teacher, and to being so unpopular with the electorate, he defended his position as leader of the party, and fought off a coup d'état, by arguably more popular politicians. Does not sound like the actions of such a petty leader at all does it?

Also, and I have said this before, I dont want Richard Bruton as leader of the party, in the same way I dont want Edwin Van der Sar(A top notch goalie for you non-football fans) playing as striker. Richard Bruton is a talented financial expert. So right now I want him in Finance. James Reilly TD or to use his other title Dr James Reilly MD knows a thing or two about health so I want him in the position of Minister of Health.

senordingdong

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

It's not the lack of style/charisma that makes me dislike Kenny. It's that he's very soapy, and looks like if elected he will be just the same sort of gombeen as Ahern etc by giving jobs to the boys and getting elected with pure pork barrell politics.

So I would also put a premium on substance, but sadly Kenny doesn't have that either.

So your dislike of him is based completely on his appearance?

And you can tell he will succumb to cronyism, just by looking at him?

I would lose alot of respect for FG is Enda was pushed aside.

Liam Byrne

ghostdancer wrote: »

he's rode on a wave that would have happened with or without him.

A bit like Ahern, so, except that Ahern started to believe his own spin and let it get out of control.

ghostdancer wrote: »

if the economic collapse hadn't happened, FG would still be the opposition party come the next GE.

Can I borrow that crystal ball for next Saturday's Lotto ?

The passive voice of your statement re the economy has also been noted. It didn't "happen", it was caused; and it was then "let happen".

ghostdancer wrote: »

his management of his party, at least at the higher levels, has been shambolic, most obviously displayed in the Bruton leadership fiasco, which only failed as Bruton made a balls of it all.

the only reason Noonan is there now is because of that heave, he would still be on the sidelines if Bruton et al hadn't moved against Kenny and ticked him off.

Again, that's crystal ball stuff. It's quite possible that given Noonan's previous record that he was kept on the sidelines to see what way that panned out, and Noonan has now proven that while Health wasn't within his skillset, finance certainly appears to be.

paky

if enda kenny becomes the next taoiseach im going to run for the dail myself. in all fairness the calibre of politicians in this country is so weak

senordingdong

paky wrote: »

if enda kenny becomes the next taoiseach im going to run for the dail myself. in all fairness the calibre of politicians in this country is so weak

Judging by the past ten years, and most of the content in this thread...I'd argue that it is infact the electorate that or of weak calibre.

Liam Byrne

paky wrote: »

if enda kenny becomes the next taoiseach im going to run for the dail myself. in all fairness the calibre of politicians in this country is so weak

There's no denying that the calibre is weak, but why would it take Kenny becoming Taoiseach to trigger your running yourself ? Surely the last two pathetic and incompetent Taoisigh would be enough to make you do this ?

syklops

paky wrote: »

if enda kenny becomes the next taoiseach im going to run for the dail myself. in all fairness the calibre of politicians in this country is so weak

So after the election, if Enda Kenny gets in you will run for the Dail?

Do you not think thats closing the barn door after the horse has won the election?

dicknorris

paky wrote: »

if enda kenny becomes the next taoiseach im going to run for the dail myself. in all fairness the calibre of politicians in this country is so weak

The reason the calibre of politician is weak because most of them are teachers and not businessmen who know how to run a business/country

deanh

dicknorris wrote: »

The reason the calibre of politician is weak because most of them are teachers and not businessmen who know how to run a business/country

Exactly which businessmen would fit your description? Seanie Fitzpatrick? David Drumm? Sean Quinn? Sean Dunne? Beverly Cooper Flynn? Do you actually believe what you post or is it more populist rubbish spoken by every 'bar-stool' economists/ politicians, the length and breath of the country? Actually, quite a high % of our T.D.'s are ex publicans/ auctioneers who do have experience of running a business.

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'd go slightly against the grain on this one.

I'd have to acknowledge that some people seem to put "charisma" over substance, and that is crucifying Enda & FG.

That said, those who do that are - for the most part - the people who would have fallen for Ahern's faux charisma, and look where that got us.

Kenny has proven to be a good leader for FG, acting as a manager rather than a captain, and putting both experienced performers and enthusiastic newcomers into relevant positions - the perfect examples being Varadkar and Noonan; when you can see those people talking sense then it instils far more confidence than having the leader themselves on spouting nonsense.....it's not just "a leader", it's a whole party that seems - for the most part - to have its act together.

So I'd actually be LESS likely to vote FG if some upstart wanted to become leader, because we'd be then dealing with someone who didn't have an impressive track record.

I only wish that people in Ireland put a premium on substance instead of (perceived) style.

+1. After watching prime time tonight ill gladly vote the FG men who backed Enda over Fianna FAIL who backed the rich greedy circle of property developers who bust this country.

senordingdong

dicknorris wrote: »

The reason the calibre of politician is weak because most of them are teachers and not businessmen who know how to run a business/country

I disagree.
Alot of them have already proved themselves quit cute when it comes to their accounting and book-keeping.

syklops

deanh wrote: »

Exactly which businessmen would fit your description? Seanie Fitzpatrick? David Drumm? Sean Quinn? Sean Dunne? Beverly Cooper Flynn? Do you actually believe what you post or is it more populist rubbish spoken by every 'bar-stool' economists/ politicians, the length and breath of the country? Actually, quite a high % of our T.D.'s are ex publicans/ auctioneers who do have experience of running a business.

To be fair. between the Irish obsession with property ownership, and our affection for drink, being either a publican or an auctioneer is not a particularly difficult job.

dlofnep

dicknorris wrote: »

The reason the calibre of politician is weak because most of them are teachers and not businessmen who know how to run a business/country

It was businessmen that destroyed the state. The last thing we need is more self-serving **** in the Dáil.

leeroybrown

We're getting pretty off topic here but...

We need a blend of people with different experience in the Dáil. One of our current problems is that the Dáil is dominated by a limited group of professions/backgrounds where people have the time to build a campaign and can take an extended breaks from their normal careers with relative ease. If I took a Dáil term out of my area of work I'd be genuinely unemployable at the end of it - experience aside I'd practically need to start again.

Personally, I couldn't care less what background the Taoiseach is from so long as they provide strong decisive leadership to the government. Enda seems great a marshalling a party of backbenchers but I do have questions about his ability to lead policy direction for the entire country.

WAFFLES10

People make me laugh, from what im reading , Enda Kenny is not, well, 'x Factor enough, well this is pathetic, surely we want a taoiseach who is more than a pretty face and a charmer for the tv cameras , perhaps a leader who can put the right people in place like nnonan on finance , and unlike say coughlan in education, or maybe a leader who sees a future for the country re, health , education, job creation, rather than a future for bankers and bailouts, im baffled that some people would throw away the future GROWTH of the country because the supposed X Factorless Kenny.

WAFFLES10

WAFFLES10 wrote: »

People make me laugh, from what im reading , Enda Kenny is not, well, 'x Factor enough, well this is pathetic, surely we want a taoiseach who is more than a pretty face and a charmer for the tv cameras , perhaps a leader who can put the right people in place like nnonan on finance , and unlike say coughlan in education, or maybe a leader who sees a future for the country re, health , education, job creation, rather than a future for bankers and bailouts, im baffled that some people would throw away the future GROWTH of the country because the supposed X Factorless Kenny.

Absolutely. We need someone who is frugal with public expenditure and who puts the needs of every decent hard working citizen in this country before the needs of their property tycoon buddies. If Kenny can deliver on his promise to get shot of the quangos and white elephant wastes in this country then in my honest opinion the FG/Labour coalition would be a success.
Irish people are buying into this silly personality contest too much and that's why second hand car salesmen like Bertie and Haughey thrive and make a hare of us.

peckerhead

Over here, lads. :rolleyes: