If Enda stood aside

femur61

Would FG win a lot more seats if they had a new leader? I personally feel if the party, or Enda won't listen that he is not popular with the people and insists carrying on as leader, what hope have we getting him to listen if they get into a power. IMO they have come up with loads of new ideas but he is so unappealable. I have emailed FG members a number of times. Maybe if people feel this way more should be done to remove him from power. I personally don't really want a left wing governement.

irishh_bob

femur61 wrote: »

Would FG win a lot more seats if they had a new leader? I personally feel if the party, or Enda won't listen that he is not popular with the people and insists carrying on as leader, what hope have we getting him to listen if they get into a power. IMO they have come up with loads of new ideas but he is so unappealable. I have emailed FG members a number of times. Maybe if people feel this way more should be done to remove him from power. I personally don't really want a left wing governement.

the FG td in my constituency will not be get getting my vote for having backed enda last june , any TD who is that out of touch with the electorate does not deserve a nod , il still be voting FG though

to answer your question , YES , enda is what holds FG back from sweeping up more of the swing vote ( which won it for FF in 07 ) and disenchanted FF vote

SB-08

Of course they would get more seats. Only someone in total denial would deny that Kenny and Kenny alone is the reason loads of not only floating voters but past FG voters are planning on voting for Labour or someone else. It's beyond obvious he is a liability in this GE - and I find it amazing that he will have been opposition leader for near 9 years by the time the GE comes - surely one of the longest opposition leaders in history? He does not inspire any sort of confidence and also clearly lacks sufficient knowledge on the economy. We already have a dreadful communicator in charge so we don't need another. At least he appears honest though. But there is no point in Kenny stepping aside this near an election - frankly though FF are going to attack them and state that the majority of FG TD's and Senators voted no confidence in him so how can the country have confidence in him. Expect this to be wheeled out constantly by FF.

I believe if a better leader they could get a majority and wouldn't have to worry about a coalition with Labour. I will most likely vote for FG mainly due to their front bench, specifically Michael Noonan being comptenent - certainly more so than Labour. What I am not happy about is the prospect of a FG/Lab Coalition with Enda becoming Taoiseach, and therefor Joan Burton getting the MoF post. It would be a disaster. I would much prefer to have Richard Bruton as Taoiseach (even if he is thought far too highly of by some people) and Noonan as MoF. And if there needs to be a Labour MoF please give it to Ruarri Quinn again and NOT Moan Burton.:mad:

Joe10000

I would vote FG if he stepped aside

Liam Byrne

I'd go slightly against the grain on this one.

I'd have to acknowledge that some people seem to put "charisma" over substance, and that is crucifying Enda & FG.

That said, those who do that are - for the most part - the people who would have fallen for Ahern's faux charisma, and look where that got us.

Kenny has proven to be a good leader for FG, acting as a manager rather than a captain, and putting both experienced performers and enthusiastic newcomers into relevant positions - the perfect examples being Varadkar and Noonan; when you can see those people talking sense then it instils far more confidence than having the leader themselves on spouting nonsense.....it's not just "a leader", it's a whole party that seems - for the most part - to have its act together.

So I'd actually be LESS likely to vote FG if some upstart wanted to become leader, because we'd be then dealing with someone who didn't have an impressive track record.

I only wish that people in Ireland put a premium on substance instead of (perceived) style.

kilburn

As long as he keeps that clown Coveny in his box Enda is ok with me not that he would get my vote though

Focalbhach

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Kenny has proven to be a good leader for FG, acting as a manager rather than a captain, and putting both experienced performers and enthusiastic newcomers into relevant positions - the perfect examples being Varadkar and Noonan; when you can see those people talking sense then it instils far more confidence than having the leader themselves on spouting nonsense.....it's not just "a leader", it's a whole party that seems - for the most part - to have its act together.

So I'd actually be LESS likely to vote FG if some upstart wanted to become leader, because we'd be then dealing with someone who didn't have an impressive track record.

I only wish that people in Ireland put a premium on substance instead of (perceived) style.

+1 on this.

unit 1

According to "public opinion" we should have FG in power with EG as taoiseach. Nonsense really as most people vote for their local politician, and although they may express an opinion about a party leader in a poll, it's actually the numbers that count after the election. Most people voting for their local FG deputy = EK as taoiseach, and FG know this.
In fact it will be refreshing to have a taoiseach that has integrity and honesty as his main qualities and he could manage a very fine government indeed.

dlofnep

FG will never receive a vote from me - But Enda Kenny has worked hard for the party, making it relevant once again. He, for at least his supporters should be held in high regard. My problems with Enda is that he fails to instill confidence in me, aside from the fact I don't believe in Fine Gael's vision of Ireland.

maynooth_rules

I really really cannot understand people saying they would not vote for FG if Enda were to stay leader, but would if he stepped aside. He is a decent honourable man whose biggest fault is that he is quite bland. That should not matter two ****s really. As far as traits go in politicians, charisma should not be anywhere near the top. Judge FG on the front bench that they would form, not just on their leader

irishh_bob

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'd go slightly against the grain on this one.

I'd have to acknowledge that some people seem to put "charisma" over substance, and that is crucifying Enda & FG.

That said, those who do that are - for the most part - the people who would have fallen for Ahern's faux charisma, and look where that got us.

Kenny has proven to be a good leader for FG, acting as a manager rather than a captain, and putting both experienced performers and enthusiastic newcomers into relevant positions - the perfect examples being Varadkar and Noonan; when you can see those people talking sense then it instils far more confidence than having the leader themselves on spouting nonsense.....it's not just "a leader", it's a whole party that seems - for the most part - to have its act together.

So I'd actually be LESS likely to vote FG if some upstart wanted to become leader, because we'd be then dealing with someone who didn't have an impressive track record.

I only wish that people in Ireland put a premium on substance instead of (perceived) style.

i accept that kenny could be a good manager of talents , the problem i have with him as leader is that by him being at the front , he is denying the party ( and the country ) the chance of a fine gael goverment without labour , fine gael should have no problem getting an overall majority such is the unprecedented collapse of FF , that they ( under kenny ) seem happy enough to form a goverment with labour per usual suggests a lack of ambition for thier party and country , in times of crisis , straight ahead hard descisions need to be made , with coaliton comes compromise , backdowns and half measures

irishh_bob

dlofnep wrote: »

FG will never receive a vote from me - But Enda Kenny has worked hard for the party, making it relevant once again. He, for at least his supporters should be held in high regard. My problems with Enda is that he fails to instill confidence in me, aside from the fact I don't believe in Fine Gael's vision of Ireland.

i didnt know enda had a vision for ireland , what is it ??

irishh_bob

maynooth_rules wrote: »

I really really cannot understand people saying they would not vote for FG if Enda were to stay leader, but would if he stepped aside. He is a decent honourable man whose biggest fault is that he is quite bland. That should not matter two ****s really. As far as traits go in politicians, charisma should not be anywhere near the top. Judge FG on the front bench that they would form, not just on their leader

the country is full of decent ( and bland ) people but sadly when it comes to politics and having ambitions to lead ones country , that isnt enough , politics nowadays is superficial and very immage oritentated , kenny simply doesnt have IT , he doesnt inspire people , you claim that people vote for thier local TD based on what he or she does , thats not entirely true , a party is identified in many ways by who thier leader is , back in the day , FF had berties face plastered all over every bill board for every TD , such was the berts popularity , contrast this with the fact that biffo has never ( and never will) appeared alongside local TD,s or MEP,s at election time

most people only take a shallow passing interest in politics and as such , a party needs to have a leader who grabs thier attention , afterall , everyones vote is of equal value

who_ru

femur61 wrote: »

I personally don't really want a left wing governement.

can you please tell me how you feel this country has benefited from having a centre right wing Govt these last 18 odd years?

Bottle_of_Smoke

no chance of him stepping down now - he's gonna be taoiseach next and that's what he wants. Varadkar will probably take over in a few years

There's maybe a 10% chance Sinn Fein & LAbour could form a government but Enda knows the chances are FG will be the main player.

I don't believe for a second FF and labour could form one so why would enda step down now

dlofnep

irishh_bob wrote: »

i didnt know enda had a vision for ireland , what is it ??

It might do you well to have a glance at their policies.

Oasis_Dublin

Enda Kenny or Brian Cowen, hummmm who is more out of touch with the electorate?

Mr.Micro

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Enda Kenny or Brian Cowen, hummmm who is more out of touch with the electorate?

Biffo by about €65 billion plus probably about €200 more billions.

Oasis_Dublin

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Biffo by about €65 billion plus probably about €200 more billions.

Precisely. People who say they won't for FG because of Kenny stink strongly of people who want to make excuses to vote FF. Anyone has to be better than Cowen, surely?

dlofnep

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Biffo by about €65 billion plus probably about €200 more billions.

That's not really accurate, as Enda supports the bailout - He just wishes to re-negotiate the terms.

irishh_bob

dlofnep wrote: »

It might do you well to have a glance at their policies.

nothing to out of the ordinary as far as i can see considering the state of the country

Oasis_Dublin

Cowen' party has caused the collapse. FG rejected the bailout yesterday. It's a kin to blaming everyone else other than Larry Murphy for what he did because everyone else didn't stop him. (Admittedly slightly crude but...)

irishh_bob

who_ru wrote: »

can you please tell me how you feel this country has benefited from having a centre right wing Govt these last 18 odd years?

i honestly dont think thier was too much idealogy at the heart of goverment this past thirteen years , buying off vested interests ( by way of a property and credit bubble ) as a means of maintaining power was thier only real plan

meglome

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'd go slightly against the grain on this one.

I'd have to acknowledge that some people seem to put "charisma" over substance, and that is crucifying Enda & FG.

That said, those who do that are - for the most part - the people who would have fallen for Ahern's faux charisma, and look where that got us.

Kenny has proven to be a good leader for FG, acting as a manager rather than a captain, and putting both experienced performers and enthusiastic newcomers into relevant positions - the perfect examples being Varadkar and Noonan; when you can see those people talking sense then it instils far more confidence than having the leader themselves on spouting nonsense.....it's not just "a leader", it's a whole party that seems - for the most part - to have its act together.

So I'd actually be LESS likely to vote FG if some upstart wanted to become leader, because we'd be then dealing with someone who didn't have an impressive track record.

I only wish that people in Ireland put a premium on substance instead of (perceived) style.

I agree with all of this but the sad reality is he's hurting their chances. The amount of times people have said to me they won't vote for FG with Kenny as leader is unreal. I don't agree with their reasoning but that won't change the reality of it. Bruton would change most of that I think.

Liam Byrne

dlofnep wrote: »

That's not really accurate, as Enda supports the bailout - He just wishes to re-negotiate the terms.

It's perfectly accurate because Cowen & FF are the only reason we needed the bailout.

Havermeyer

dlofnep wrote: »

That's not really accurate, as Enda supports the bailout - He just wishes to re-negotiate the terms.

How is it not accurate? Kenny supports an effort to get the country out of the hole it is in - but believes we could get a better deal. So, why not give him a shot?

It still baffles me how people I know, friends and family, would rather vote for FF over FG just because Kenny is still at the helm - the same people are still blind to the fact that Bertie was/is a self serving little 'so and so' - sad really.

femur61

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Precisely. People who say they won't for FG because of Kenny stink strongly of people who want to make excuses to vote FF. Anyone has to be better than Cowen, surely?

Totally inaccurate I will definitely not vote FF, but will probally go with FG. I hate this parish pump politics, but that is the only way to show how much FF have destroyed our country. I feel if Enda stood aside FG would win more votes.

enda1

(yes I'm aware my name is also Enda...)

He should have stepped aside at the time of the last party upheaval.
The public have no confidence in the man. He is a weak person. I have heard many stories of his dealings and handling of the people and business. He is lost in a room and has no character or charisma - he is ultimately a shy person.

He is no leader of a company, not a strong person with determination. His decisions are too deliberate and meek.

No chance the man should, but a high chance he will lead the country.
Still with a strong minister of finance and of EntEmp, there's hope.

whatawaster

I've done a u-turn on Enda. I supported Bruton at the time, but the more I think about it, the more I think he is more suited to a ministry.

FG have a very good front bench with Noonan, Varadkar and Bruton. They, along with some of their policies, are why i will vote FG

jmayo

I see it's that time of the month again, another poll, ff are doing pathetically, voters still don't like Kenny's lack of charisma, his accent, his take on economics, his party's supposed lack of policies, his party's policies, his hairstlye, his picture, whatever.

So lets have a new thread about Kenny stepping aside to let the true glorious leader of FG, whoever the hell that is, come striding forward to save the country. :rolleyes:

F*cks sake, if everyone that claims they would vote for FG if only Kenny was not the leader was to vote for FG, then I think ff would be on 0.5%, Labour on 2% and the rest scraping for 1%.

And if Enda steps aside, who then ?
Ah yes we have Richard the financial expert.
Except after a couple of months he will be considered aloof with no charisma, has a girly giggle and shure you can't trust him as didn't he stab poor Enda in the back.

Then what about James Reilly, oh he is good, he knows what he is on about especially health.
Ah but wait wasn't he the chief negogiator for the doctors when they got great deal on over 70s medical cards, he has a beard and didn't he also back Kenny.
Nah we can't have him.

What about Noonan isn't he great the way he can put lenihan in his box.
He knows what he is on about and would be good.
Ah but didn't he lead them before and what about his time as minister of health.

Ah but haven't FG got Leo the lionheart who will appeal to all the urban young non parish pump voters. Ah but isn't he a right wing nutjob, a doctor and not really one of us due to him not having paternal roots in this country going back to Brian Boru.

It doesn't matter if God himself was leading FG, there are people in this country that would rather vote for a donkey led ff and there are other who vote for some parties of the left, because they still for some reason see FG as wandering around with blueshirts hidden under their beds.

dlofnep

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It's perfectly accurate because Cowen & FF are the only reason we needed the bailout.

I wasn't disagreeing with that. What I mean is, they basically agree on the same measures to correct it - which is the transfer of private debt to sovereign debt.

leeroybrown

Unlike most people, my problem with Enda isn't his lack of charisma, it's that I continuously notice that he's got a lack of in depth understanding of the major government departments and his parties own policies in these areas. Far too often Enda seems to be light on knowledge and in need of prompting. The other major party leaders would run rings around him in an unscripted factual discussion. A political leader doesn't need to be an oracle of knowledge but it's incredible important that they be able to quickly understand and retain important information related to issues they've been briefed about - otherwise they'll be an ineffective and ill informed decision maker.

AnneFrank

femur61 wrote: »

Would FG win a lot more seats if they had a new leader? I personally feel if the party, or Enda won't listen that he is not popular with the people and insists carrying on as leader, what hope have we getting him to listen if they get into a power. IMO they have come up with loads of new ideas but he is so unappealable. I have emailed FG members a number of times. Maybe if people feel this way more should be done to remove him from power. I personally don't really want a left wing governement.

Why do you feel this way,is it because he's from outside Dublin ?Do you prefer style over substance ??Get real and look at the mans record,this appealable nonsense is madness,we need substance not another charlie or bertie

Sully

The mind boggles as to why this is let continually be discussed on this forum under different headings. Hardly any topics on Brian Cowen, or Gerry Adams who both have poor ratings. Maybe their party would do better with a new leader? Instead, we have a round and round discussion on the leader (one single man, out of a large party) of the main opposition party which poses to beat most others and possibly even Labour. I do not believe for one second that FGs chances of an overall majority will jump significantly if a new leader was elected.

How in the name of god can one man be stopping the country from voting a brilliant party with the potential of getting us out of this unholy mess FF brought us in? I don't believe it for a second. The Irish people voted FF in continuously, and still do, despite the major ****s up they have done and the lies they have told us. They are incompetent, yet people voted them back in. A whole party, with a history of party leaders who were brilliant in the eyes of the media but were terrible for the country. Right now, nobody is bothering with the "Should we replace Cowen?" discussion despite he was part of the problem before brought to the top of the ship and when brought there he screwed us all over yet again. Despite being the lowest leader in poll ratings, and despite seemingly being drunk on the radio after a "long night".

So excuse me for a second if I dismiss this nonsense of a "Enda is causing FG to suffer". Despite his poor ratings, FG is still the most popular party - a new record for them. Despite Kenny, who is the vice chair of the European People's Party is the largest and most influential European-level political party of the centre-right (imagine - european leaders like him and put him in a position of power! Shock horror!), having brought his party from nothing to the most popular with a strong front bench. Despite showing balls of steal in the heave and pushing aside the glory hunter, and reshuffling making a fantastic choice bringing Noonan back and in place for Finance - doing a much better job, thank you very much. Despite brining FG to the largest party in local government.

People voted FG under Kenny before, and will still do so. There is a small element, in my view, damaging ratings but I do not believe for one second it would cause a significant shift in party support.

Its very disappointing to see people so intent on discussing the oppositions leader, not their policies, and not bothering attacking those in government which have brought our country to its knees and screwed us over. Its Kenny who was created the party many of you are and want to vote for. Those policies and the team - thank Kenny.

Its not, nor should it be, a popularity contest. Its about who is the best leader, the best governor. The best to serve the state with dignity and honesty. Adams? Sorry, but no thanks. Damaged goods. Gilmore with the gale? What exactly has he done bar being a fantastic speaker? What has he on offer, and people want him as leader? God help us all. Cowen is a better leader then Gilmore. More taxation!

One would assume are these chatters being sent out to damage the party vote, and help others gain weight in this election.

scr123

FG will never face the truth, there is an ABFG in this country as much as there is an ABFF. Neither of course are as big as the ABLAB +cronies . FG just do not connect with people and blaming a nice soul like Kenny is taking the easy way out. People are afraid of the extremism in FG just like they are afraid of the extremism in Lab + crosies on the left

Sully

scr123 wrote: »

FG will never face the truth, there is an ABFG in this country as much as there is an ABFF. Neither of course are as big as the ABLAB +cronies . FG just do not connect with people and blaming a nice soul like Kenny is taking the easy way out. People are afraid of the extremism in FG just like they are afraid of the extremism in Lab + crosies on the left

I very much doubt that!

Het-Field

scr123 wrote: »

FG will never face the truth, there is an ABFG in this country as much as there is an ABFF. Neither of course are as big as the ABLAB +cronies . FG just do not connect with people and blaming a nice soul like Kenny is taking the easy way out. People are afraid of the extremism in FG just like they are afraid of the extremism in Lab + crosies on the left

What is extreme about the center-right FGers and the smoked-salmon socialists of Gilmore ? Both are center leaning with small differences.

What are FF ?

RDM_83 again

I think the reason is that there is a general dislike of real right wing party's in Ireland by a majority of people which is always FG undoing (and IMO that dislike is a good thing).

2nd Unlike FF, FG don't seem to be thirsty for power, they do not initiate things to cause the government dificulty and maybe thats a better way to be in opposition but it makes me wonder why they don't have that hunger.

3rd FG will never get above the 3rd preference while the still have Leo Varadkar as a potential front bencher, the guy is a right wing autsterity minded zealot, and tbh honest you've just got to see he's not motivated by any understanding of the real world being a reaganomic fan through his college days

Oasis_Dublin

femur61 wrote: »

Totally inaccurate I will definitely not vote FF, but will probally go with FG. I hate this parish pump politics, but that is the only way to show how much FF have destroyed our country. I feel if Enda stood aside FG would win more votes.

I don't think they would because people would then attempt to paint them as a party which is internally divided between those who "favoured Kenny before the leadership change" and those who "now favour the new leader Bruton."

It is also not "totally inaccurate"; if you believe that there are no people using the Kenny line in order to vote FF then your analysis is totally inaccurate.

Sugarfree

Sully wrote: »

The mind boggles as to why this is let continually be discussed on this forum under different headings. Hardly any topics on Brian Cowen, or Gerry Adams who both have poor ratings. Maybe their party would do better with a new leader? Instead, we have a round and round discussion on the leader (one single man, out of a large party) of the main opposition party which poses to beat most others and possibly even Labour. I do not believe for one second that FGs chances of an overall majority will jump significantly if a new leader was elected.

How in the name of god can one man be stopping the country from voting a brilliant party with the potential of getting us out of this unholy mess FF brought us in? I don't believe it for a second. The Irish people voted FF in continuously, and still do, despite the major ****s up they have done and the lies they have told us. They are incompetent, yet people voted them back in. A whole party, with a history of party leaders who were brilliant in the eyes of the media but were terrible for the country. Right now, nobody is bothering with the "Should we replace Cowen?" discussion despite he was part of the problem before brought to the top of the ship and when brought there he screwed us all over yet again. Despite being the lowest leader in poll ratings, and despite seemingly being drunk on the radio after a "long night".

So excuse me for a second if I dismiss this nonsense of a "Enda is causing FG to suffer". Despite his poor ratings, FG is still the most popular party - a new record for them. Despite Kenny, who is the vice chair of the European People's Party is the largest and most influential European-level political party of the centre-right (imagine - european leaders like him and put him in a position of power! Shock horror!), having brought his party from nothing to the most popular with a strong front bench. Despite showing balls of steal in the heave and pushing aside the glory hunter, and reshuffling making a fantastic choice bringing Noonan back and in place for Finance - doing a much better job, thank you very much. Despite brining FG to the largest party in local government.

People voted FG under Kenny before, and will still do so. There is a small element, in my view, damaging ratings but I do not believe for one second it would cause a significant shift in party support.

Its very disappointing to see people so intent on discussing the oppositions leader, not their policies, and not bothering attacking those in government which have brought our country to its knees and screwed us over. Its Kenny who was created the party many of you are and want to vote for. Those policies and the team - thank Kenny.

Its not, nor should it be, a popularity contest. Its about who is the best leader, the best governor. The best to serve the state with dignity and honesty. Adams? Sorry, but no thanks. Damaged goods. Gilmore with the gale? What exactly has he done bar being a fantastic speaker? What has he on offer, and people want him as leader? God help us all. Cowen is a better leader then Gilmore. More taxation!

One would assume are these chatters being sent out to damage the party vote, and help others gain weight in this election.

+10000

Listen I personaly think Enda will make a good Taoiseach, he is a steady pair of hands, he is an honest man. We all talk about cleaning up the corruption out of this country. Its not the Taoiseach who will be the main man to lead Ireland out of its financial mess, it is the men and women in the finance, enterprise, education portfolios etc. The Taoiseach needs to be a figurehead against the corrupt backwardness of the FF-era, a leader who is without reproach and is decent, honest and honourable.

irishh_bob

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I think the reason is that there is a general dislike of real right wing party's in Ireland by a majority of people which is always FG undoing (and IMO that dislike is a good thing).

2nd Unlike FF, FG don't seem to be thirsty for power, they do not initiate things to cause the government dificulty and maybe thats a better way to be in opposition but it makes me wonder why they don't have that hunger.

3rd FG will never get above the 3rd preference while the still have Leo Varadkar as a potential front bencher, the guy is a right wing autsterity minded zealot, and tbh honest you've just got to see he's not motivated by any understanding of the real world being a reaganomic fan through his college days

FG are not a proper right wing party , ireland has never had a proper right wing political party , the political system just like the electorate is pathologically centrist

dlofnep

Sully wrote: »

How in the name of god can one man be stopping the country from voting a brilliant party

That's subjective. I don't see anything beyond populist rhetoric from Fine Gael. They wish to cut 30,000 public sector jobs, despite Ireland being in a position of mass unemployment - rather than putting caps reflective to our economic woes on top level public servants. They wish to install a mandated health insurance plan, where those slightly over threshold for a medical card - while under financial debt, would be at a loss when it comes to safeguarding their own health.

They wish to transfer private debt on the backs of our children, and our children's children. They discuss "protecting the most vulnerable" - while in the same paper, wish to introduce water rates and inflict cuts across the board in all the wrong places.

Fine Gael aren't abysmally awful. Some of their policies are workable, and fresh - but many are not. Any party that supports the public funding of pure, unadulterated greed is far from brilliant.

My two cents.

themont85

Sully wrote: »

The mind boggles as to why this is let continually be discussed on this forum under different headings. Hardly any topics on Brian Cowen, or Gerry Adams who both have poor ratings. Maybe their party would do better with a new leader? Instead, we have a round and round discussion on the leader (one single man, out of a large party) of the main opposition party which poses to beat most others and possibly even Labour. I do not believe for one second that FGs chances of an overall majority will jump significantly if a new leader was elected.

How in the name of god can one man be stopping the country from voting a brilliant party with the potential of getting us out of this unholy mess FF brought us in? I don't believe it for a second. The Irish people voted FF in continuously, and still do, despite the major ****s up they have done and the lies they have told us. They are incompetent, yet people voted them back in. A whole party, with a history of party leaders who were brilliant in the eyes of the media but were terrible for the country. Right now, nobody is bothering with the "Should we replace Cowen?" discussion despite he was part of the problem before brought to the top of the ship and when brought there he screwed us all over yet again. Despite being the lowest leader in poll ratings, and despite seemingly being drunk on the radio after a "long night".

So excuse me for a second if I dismiss this nonsense of a "Enda is causing FG to suffer". Despite his poor ratings, FG is still the most popular party - a new record for them. Despite Kenny, who is the vice chair of the European People's Party is the largest and most influential European-level political party of the centre-right (imagine - european leaders like him and put him in a position of power! Shock horror!), having brought his party from nothing to the most popular with a strong front bench. Despite showing balls of steal in the heave and pushing aside the glory hunter, and reshuffling making a fantastic choice bringing Noonan back and in place for Finance - doing a much better job, thank you very much. Despite brining FG to the largest party in local government.

People voted FG under Kenny before, and will still do so. There is a small element, in my view, damaging ratings but I do not believe for one second it would cause a significant shift in party support.

Its very disappointing to see people so intent on discussing the oppositions leader, not their policies, and not bothering attacking those in government which have brought our country to its knees and screwed us over. Its Kenny who was created the party many of you are and want to vote for. Those policies and the team - thank Kenny.

Its not, nor should it be, a popularity contest. Its about who is the best leader, the best governor. The best to serve the state with dignity and honesty. Adams? Sorry, but no thanks. Damaged goods. Gilmore with the gale? What exactly has he done bar being a fantastic speaker? What has he on offer, and people want him as leader? God help us all. Cowen is a better leader then Gilmore. More taxation!

One would assume are these chatters being sent out to damage the party vote, and help others gain weight in this election.

Because Enda Kenny is leader of the most popular Party and still gets atrocious ratings that's why. He is the only leader to not go up with his party. Why is that? That is the reason people talk about it so much. Not only that but his Party have made very few gains since FF's real implosion in the polls. They will be the largest party by default and that is embarrassing for any FG supporter.

Cowen gets poor ratings because FF gets poor ones. Adams will never get good approval ratings-there are too many people who just refuse to vote SF for him to ever get good ones.

Enda Kenny may be a nice guy but he doesn't just lack style, he also lacks any substance whatsoever. His grasp of economics is pathetic. He lacks even basic knowledge of economic terms. Stuff like getting stuff prompted to him during interviews in the backround doesn't engender confidence that this man is the change needed.

I wouldn't mind your line of argument for say John Bruton who at least was intelligent but lacked charisma.

These 'chatters' are consistent polls showing no positive correlation between the weakness of others and him going up. He is the problem, that is why there are so many threads on it.

Sully

dlofnep wrote: »

That's subjective. I don't see anything beyond populist rhetoric from Fine Gael.

They wish to cut 30,000 public sector jobs, despite Ireland being in a position of mass unemployment - rather than putting caps reflective to our economic woes on top level public servants. They wish to install a mandated health insurance plan, where those slightly over threshold for a medical card - while under financial debt, would be at a loss when it comes to safeguarding their own health.

They wish to transfer private debt on the backs of our children, and our children's children. They discuss "protecting the most vulnerable" - while in the same paper, wish to introduce water rates and inflict cuts across the board in all the wrong places.

Fine Gael aren't abysmally awful. Some of their policies are workable, and fresh - but many are not. Any party that supports the public funding of pure, unadulterated greed is far from brilliant.

My two cents.

Whats so popular about that? Basically, you are saying things are bad enough and FG will make it worse. Thats not populism. If Fine Gael said the opposite, and promised the world and its mother without fault - thats populism.

Sully

themont85 wrote: »

Because Enda Kenny is leader of the most popular Party and still gets atrocious ratings that's why. He is the only leader to not go up with his party. Why is that? That is the reason people talk about it so much. Not only that but his Party have made very few gains since FF's real implosion in the polls. They will be the largest party by default and that is embarrassing for any FG supporter.

Atrocious ratings?! FG is the most popular party the in country at over 30%! Consistently! Labour briefly peaked but it was short lived - even for Gilmore whos rating is dropping!

Fianna Fail have dropped support significantly. Many jumped to FG, but others jumped to others such as Labour. There is a shift in the political scene in Ireland and its not just about jumping from on boat to another. Its going to spread out. Fine Gael have always been second largest party and are now the most popular because their support grew that bit stronger as people wanted change. Now, its not going to be through the roof because there isn't much room to give. I don't believe we will see any party in Ireland, for a very long time, get huge support. Its not in our political makeup.

In addition, many unions and public sector workers won't want a FG government because of their policies - this is going to impact on their support and the public sector is a huge vote. The suggestion seems to be that most people would swing to FG from FF - I don't think thats the case.

Id love to see a poll asking how many people would vote FG if Kenny wasn't the leader and what party they originally supported when swapping over. Those are not the polls done because they risk dampening the media headlines and debate.

Cowen gets poor ratings because FF gets poor ones. Adams will never get good approval ratings-there are too many people who just refuse to vote SF for him to ever get good ones.

SFs support is high (for them), Adams rating is low.

Enda Kenny may be a nice guy but he doesn't just lack style, he also lacks any substance whatsoever. His grasp of economics is pathetic. He lacks even basic knowledge of economic terms. Stuff like getting stuff prompted to him during interviews in the backround doesn't engender confidence that this man is the change needed.

Endas ratings are only poor in recent times - back in 2004 for example, he wasn't far from Berties ratings. Enda personal rating was at 45%! I don't believe he changed much in those years gone by bar some poor interviews. I don't think you need a degree in finance to be a leader - look at Bertie and Brian. We need to look beyond the whole "you need to be educated in this area to speak".

I wouldn't mind your line of argument for say John Bruton who at least was intelligent but lacked charisma.

Are you suggesting Kenny isn't intelligent?

These 'chatters' are consistent polls showing no positive correlation between the weakness of others and him going up. He is the problem, that is why there are so many threads on it.

Not fully correct. He has done well in previous polls and in one of the polls recently his support did rise. Gilmore is slipping up, Cowen has fallen. That leaves who, Adams?

Other FG leaders in the past have gone onto be very good leaders but had poor ratings at the time. Noonan is being prompted as a leader of FG now but was hated prior.

themont85

I'm not getting into this quoted every line we each post business but;

-Adams rating is quite good actually when I look at it relative to their support. Again though Adams past makes it difficult for me to see any way he ever achieves high ratings.

-FG on their current rating are only a couple of points above what they got at the General Election. Polls have shown that the majority of FF's support has gone elsewhere. They will be the largest party by default tbh. That is a failure of leadership.

-He rarely interviews well. This isn't only a 'couple' of times its happened. He rarely sounds truely assertive or in command of what he is supposed to be talking about.

Michael Noonan's FG in 2002 were never going to do well. They bloodied their leader at the wrong time and created division within their Party. They were facing (at the time) the most successful ever Government in the history of the State; one that oversaw unprecedented growth and Peace in Northern Ireland. They didnt have a hope either way.

dlofnep

Sully wrote: »

SFs support is high (for them), Adams rating is low.

Gerry Adams has one of the highest ratings of all party leaders. 5 points higher than Enda Kenny infact. That has always been the case.

dlofnep

Sully wrote: »

Basically, you are saying things are bad enough and FG will make it worse.

I didn't say they would make it worse, but they will make it worse for alot of people. Especially those 30,000 workers reliant on their positions, without any jobs to go to. It might have made sense under a thriving economy, with job positions vacant everywhere - but it doesn't make sense today under the current climate. Not to mention, the public will front the cost of their redundancies.

I think as it stands, Fine Gael is a slightly better alternative than Fianna Fáil - Purely on the basis of who caused the crisis. But both offer similar processes for ending the crisis - and that is where I draw the line.

Jayuu

It is a sad comment on the politics of this day and age that people can say "I like that party's policies but I don't like their leader so I'm not voting for them".

As somebody else pointed out no matter who would end up as leader of Fine Gael there would be another group of people who would dislike him/her as leader of the party. So what then? Remove that leader. Keep going until you've run out of people. Its such a facile and infuriating argument.

As for those who talk about the "charisma" factor, I think the "charisma" we had here in Ireland is just another term for "cute hoor" and I think we've had enough of those leading our country, thank you very much.

The simple fact is that people need to vote for a party based on its policies. And they need to inform themselves on those policies and what they will mean. Those are what are going to make a difference in the long run. Can we stop being so shallow as to vote for personalities? Is that too grown up a request?

Liam Byrne

scr123 wrote: »

FG will never face the truth, there is an ABFG in this country as much as there is an ABFF.

Except for the fact that most of us in ABFF have a damn good reason for being there; what reasons do you have for being an ABFG ?

scr123 wrote: »

FG just do not connect with people and blaming a nice soul like Kenny is taking the easy way out.

Really ? So who does, in your opinion ?

scr123 wrote: »

People are afraid of the extremism in FG just like they are afraid of the extremism in Lab + crosies on the left

I'm more afraid of the extremism in FF, TBH.....the "once you're well-connected and can get away with it, you're grand, and if you get caught just give us a few years and we'll let you back in" type of extremism.....it has proved far more damaging.

Anyway, this is heading off-topic, but given some of your previous posts about being "staunch FF" I had to point out that you wouldn't vote FG in a month of Sundays, so the above is all kinda pointless.

imme

dlofnep wrote: »

That's not really accurate, as Enda supports the bailout - He just wishes to re-negotiate the terms.

everybody supports the bailout,
what's the alternative dlofnep?

The question posed by the OP is one I've wondered about before and was going to post such a question.
I think if there were to be a different leader of FG for an election which was promised that they would have to be a superb communicator, a person who could conjure up a picture of an Ireland to come, is there such a person in FG?