Can pubs/niteclubs refuse you tapwater?

Paulw

skinny1 wrote: »

pubs in ireland if asked cannot refuse any person that walks through there door and asks for a glass of water,this is 100% fact

Can you please provide a link to this 100% fact, because no one else can? I think you may struggle to find a link to it, because it doesn't exist.

No pub must provide free water to anyone.

rubadub

In the UK...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/opensecrets/2010/03/departments_differ_on_free_tap_water.html

Next month, pubs and licensed clubs in England and Wales will have to make free tap water available to their drinking customers.

This requirement is being imposed by the Home Office on 6 April in a new code of practice on alcohol retailing - despite the fact that another government department described it as a "disproportionate" act of excessive regulation which will provide "more meat & drink to the Daily Mail". (One can only assume that the Daily Mail does not survive on a diet of free tap water).

Pub interior

The differences of opinion between government departments have been revealed by a freedom-of-information request from the BBC.

The new Home Office measure is backed by the Department of Health, but it was opposed by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, and by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

The DoH says it backs the idea "as this allows customers to moderate their alcohol intake, should they so choose". But after the Home Office ran a consultative exercise on the code last year, the DCMS objected to the inclusion of the free-tap-water proposal, partly on the basis that it "veers into the health objective territory and is therefore inappropriate for the code".

The DCMS wanted this requirement deleted, arguing as follows:

"DELETE: not proportionate - we need to see evidence that this is necessary, especially given that refusal could lead to loss of licence etc. Do publicans really often refuse to provide water to customers who have purchase [sic] and consumed any kind of drink or food? There are also laws to stop the sale of alcohols to drunks and purchase on behalf of them etc, so this measure, in effect, is unnecessary and veers into the health objective territory and is therefore in appropriate for the code. Finally, it would be unworkable for licensed public land as well. There are hundreds of public spaces that have been licensed, in over 150 licensing authorities including village squares, parks farmers markets etc."

Defra also objected to the suggestion that free tap water must be provided where it is available. It saw the issue as a matter of proportionality in regulation, arguing:

"If for no other reason, 'where it is available' makes this condition entirely disproportionate. And is there really a problem here? Do pubs in practice refuse free tap water? Do people really end up drunk because free tap water was refused (presuming that paid-for tap water was available?). This all sounds implausible - more meat & drink to the Daily Mail."

However, the Home Office has pressed ahead despite the objections from DCMS and Defra. The BBC obtained this material through an FOI request to the Department of Health, which originally turned it down but then conceded after an appeal from my colleague, Julia Ross, who argued that disclosure was in the public interest.

I'm writing this up not because it is shocking or even surprising. It's perfectly reasonable for government departments to have different viewpoints, even if this is normally hidden from public view under the guise of "collective responsibility". Nor is it strange that the DoH prioritises health factors and the Home Office focuses on crime reduction, while other departments with other responsibilities emphasize the interests of the catering and entertainment industries.

But it is interesting that the DoH - eventually - agreed that this could be revealed to the public without excessive damage to the future candour of policy discussions.

And it's also very interesting for the extra light it sheds on how the inter-departmental consultative and decision-making process operates. The Home Office document states (paragraph 3.5) that the tap water proposal was unpopular with some retailers, but naturally doesn't reveal that concerns also extended to officials in DCMS and Defra.

And for those analysts of the British machinery of government who like to regard individual departments as clients, captured by the interests it is their job to rule over, they may be pleased to see this one apparent example of their theory in practice.

(Apologies, by the way, for light blogging recently, which is connected to my other responsibilities at the BBC as the general election approaches.)

In Australia
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/water-to-be-free-in-pubs-clubs-20100727-10uc4.html

PUBS, bars and clubs in Victoria will soon be required to provide free drinking water to customers under new laws welcomed by anti-violence campaigners as overdue, but criticised by the nightclub industry.

Legislation introduced in State Parliament yesterday will also clear the way for businesses such as hair salons to offer alcoholic drinks as a sideline without having to pay for liquor licences.

Adam Jaffrey, spokesman for the youth anti-violence group Step Back Think, welcomed the free water rule in pubs but questioned the timing of the move.
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''It makes for a more enjoyable, safer and more friendly night for everybody,'' Mr Jaffrey said. ''But we brought it to the government's attention in November last year.''

David Butten, of the Melbourne Nightclub Owners Forum, questioned the changes, saying they would have no impact on the psychology of binge drinking and could threaten the viability of some businesses.

''In the context of a nightclub or bar, the government needs to realise water is a commercial product,'' said Mr Butten. ''Forcing nightclubs and bars to lose more of their income-earning potential is not going to help solve … drunkenness.

''A lot of people go out and drink only water. Nightclubs and bars provide a service in the form of entertainment and that has to be paid for. There has to be some appreciation of the commercial reality of how bars and nightclubs operate.''

A spokeswoman for Consumer Affairs Minister Tony Robinson said the law was deliberately general, allowing each business to tailor its response.

The new laws will also make it compulsory for licensed venue staff to be trained in responsible service of alcohol.

And a promise to exempt from licensing rules ''bed and breakfasts, florists and giftmaker businesses who supply alcohol as an incidental part of their operations'' will be extended to other small businesses. ''So hairdressers will be able to offer complimentary glasses of champagne to clients and butchers can sell bottles of wine to take away with food purchases," Mr Robinson said.

Craig Kershaw, whose Doctor Follicles barber chain offers clients a complimentary glass of beer, said it marked the return of common sense. ''I run a barber shop, not a bar, so this cuts out all the red tape stuff.''

I don't think there is any law here. I have heard of some "safe nightclubbing" thing, not sure if it was UK or here, but it was talking of drink for clubbers -to stop dehydration on E.

91011

skinny1 wrote: »

go check consumers rights and educate youself

Its been checked many many times over the years on several discussion forums including boards & askaboutmoney, yet still no-one whatsoever has ever been able to show anything to back up the claim - because there is nothing!

Fighting Irish

Mark Hamill wrote: »

The way some people where going on, you would swear pubs and nightclubs where being run on a knife edge and only getting by by charging for tap water. If its just a case of greedy managers milking customers for all they got, then just say that.
Incidently, all you need to stay in business is to break even, profit is what the owners line their pockets with.

:rolleyes:

subway

interesting topic, i've never had reason to be refused water.
i would imagine its just good customer service to provide it, although i am aware, anecdotally, of certain night clubs in dublin where the primary activity was dancing and drug taking who would charge for water as a way to make money of those who had little to no interest in alchol.


the closest reference i can find is in this recent article which clearly implies that there is no requirement to have drinking water on the premises, from which it can be inferred that there can be no requirement to provide drinking water onwards

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2010/dec/19/the-pipes-are-calling-as-council-struggles-to-keep/

He also noted it was a requirement of Dublin City Council for all premises to have 24 hours' worth of water stored, although this was not expected to be drinking water but rather water to facilitate the flushing of toilets and other activities.

jclally

I don't normally have anything good to say about publicans these days, particularly in Dublin, but from my experiences working in pubs through school there are two extremes. People who are spending money in your pub and ask for a glass of water - no problem. People who expect to sit in your pub, being served by your staff and using your facilities without paying anything- thats cheeky and Id say no to them.
Its like people drinking diluted orange / blackcurrant. If they're eating, or buying other drinks then Id never charge for it. But you do get some people who think they should be able to sit in a pub watching matches or listening to music, drinking blackcurrant for free, and get offended if they get charged.
I was in a pub in North Co. Dublin a few weeks back and they charged me €6.90 for a vodka and blackcurrant - €4.95 for the vodka, and €1.95 for the smallest dash of blackcurrant. This having already spent €100 there between food and drinks. The same barman spent the next 10 mins saying the smoking ban had killed the bar trade.

koremelt

Some friends were in a pub in Dublin (well known pub on Baggot Street) at the weekend,
about 8 of them all drinking alcohol, one went to the bar around 12 and asked for a pint of water having had enough and was refused... Have to say when I heard this I was outraged, barman's reasoning was that if everyone came in and ordered water they would go under.
She bought a sparkling water but they left soon after.
Thought this kind of c*&p went out the window with the Celtic Tiger

slimjimmc

Don't dig up old threads please.
Closed.