Can pubs/niteclubs refuse you tapwater?

91011

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is a law that I can't recall now that says once you are served in any licensed premises you have the right to use the toilets there and also once allowed onto the premises as a customer you have the right to a drink of water free of charge and after your water you then have the right to use the toilets in the establishment.

The right to use the toilets? - More likely, that any licenced premises must have working toilets with running water and once you're on that premises and purchasing product, you have the right to use the facilities that must be provided.

But as for any right to have free water, this is absolute nonsense. But most pubs will out of courtesy provide one unless they think someone is taking the piss.

Cabaal

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is a law that I can't recall now that says once you are served in any licensed premises you have the right to use the toilets there and also once allowed onto the premises as a customer you have the right to a drink of water free of charge and after your water you then have the right to use the toilets in the establishment.

So again we have yet another person claiming something but not backing stuff up.

Toilets I'd imagine are part of the law but outside of that I can't see a law making it so a business must give free water to drink.

Can everyone stop this crap "there is such and such a law, or as far as I know etc", either backup what your saying or its only hear'say

Cabaal

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Pups pay for their staff, the washing up, the rent and heating by charging people for tap water? WTF are the entrance fee, the €2.50 for a small box of pringles and the €5.60 a pint of soft drink in aid of then?

Its called profit, you know the thing all business's aim to maximise in order to stay in business.

ebbsy

Cabaal wrote: »

So again we have yet another person claiming something but not backing stuff up.

Toilets I'd imagine are part of the law but outside of that I can't see a law making it so a business must give free water to drink.

Can everyone stop this crap "there is such and such a law, or as far as I know etc", either backup what your saying or its only hear'say

Hear Hear.

If you want to drink the water or use the toilet of a business then pay for it.

seamus

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Pups pay for their staff, the washing up, the rent and heating by charging people for tap water? WTF are the entrance fee, the €2.50 for a small box of pringles and the €5.60 a pint of soft drink in aid of then?

To be fair, most pubs don't charge entrance fees, even in Dublin City centre. Only nightclubs and a small number of pubs do.

From the pub's point of view, one guy comes in, sits at the bar and asks for a glass of water. He then sits there drinking it for 20 minutes while he watches the telly and on his way out he uses the toilet. Costing the pub money and contributing nothing. Even if he bought a box of pringles, I imagine the pub would happy.
Despite the origin of the word "pub", it's still a business, not a public sitting room.

There was a thread somewhere on boards a while back where a guy went into a busy pub to watch a gig. He sat at the bar and got a drink of water. Two glasses later, the barman came up to him and told him to sling his hook. And rightly so - he was taking up space in the pub that could have been taken up by a paying customer, enjoying music that the pub was paying for, and expecting to be served glasses of water.

FWIW, I've never been refused a glass of water in any pub, but then I would usually order it with (or shortly after) other drinks. And no pub would ever throw out a teetotaller who was with other drinkers.

Mark Hamill

Cabaal wrote: »

Its called profit, you know the thing all business's aim to maximise in order to stay in business.

The way some people where going on, you would swear pubs and nightclubs where being run on a knife edge and only getting by by charging for tap water. If its just a case of greedy managers milking customers for all they got, then just say that.
Incidently, all you need to stay in business is to break even, profit is what the owners line their pockets with.

Mark Hamill

seamus wrote: »

To be fair, most pubs don't charge entrance fees, even in Dublin City centre. Only nightclubs and a small number of pubs do.

From the pub's point of view, one guy comes in, sits at the bar and asks for a glass of water. He then sits there drinking it for 20 minutes while he watches the telly and on his way out he uses the toilet. Costing the pub money and contributing nothing. Even if he bought a box of pringles, I imagine the pub would happy.
Despite the origin of the word "pub", it's still a business, not a public sitting room.

I'm not saying pubs cant earn money, but there is a point where they are taking the piss. Someone using the toilets and drinking a glass of water is not going to cost a pub that much at all, and if they are treated well and made welcome then the pub is going to encourage repeat custom.

seamus wrote: »

There was a thread somewhere on boards a while back where a guy went into a busy pub to watch a gig. He sat at the bar and got a drink of water. Two glasses later, the barman came up to him and told him to sling his hook. And rightly so - he was taking up space in the pub that could have been taken up by a paying customer, enjoying music that the pub was paying for, and expecting to be served glasses of water.

FWIW, I've never been refused a glass of water in any pub, but then I would usually order it with (or shortly after) other drinks. And no pub would ever throw out a teetotaller who was with other drinkers.

Pubs are a business, but they are in the hospistality/entertainment sector and in the hospitality/entertainment sector you cant be expecting to make money off everyone at every turn. Otherwise ryanair would have long sinced opened pubs where you pay to sit on chairs (extra service fee for cushions), straws would have to be returned after use (with fines for damages) etc etc.

keithclancy

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I'm not saying pubs cant earn money, but there is a point where they are taking the piss. Someone using the toilets and drinking a glass of water is not going to cost a pub that much at all, and if they are treated well and made welcome then the pub is going to encourage repeat custom.


Pubs are a business, but they are in the hospistality/entertainment sector and in the hospitality/entertainment sector you cant be expecting to make money off everyone at every turn. Otherwise ryanair would have long sinced opened pubs where you pay to sit on chairs (extra service fee for cushions), straws would have to be returned after use (with fines for damages) etc etc.

On the Continent you usually pay to use the Toilet.

They are usually really clean though, it costs money to keep toilets clean ffs.

In Ireland the Toilets are usually manky, your lucky if theres a toilet seat.

IMO, walking into a bar and expecting service for free is taking the piss.

Keith186

I have to say I thought all public houses were obliged to have toilets and serve water as many posters have already said. Don't have anything to back that up other than I heard it years ago.

If its a requirement or not you should never be refused free tap water unless you are taking the piss.

Paulw

Keith186 wrote: »

I have to say I thought all public houses were obliged to have toilets and serve water as many posters have already said.

Yes, they must have toilets (with running water), and no they have no legal obligation to serve water for free.

Simple as that.

axer

This year the UK made it compulsory for licensed clubs to provide free tap water. Don't think there is anything here like that though.
http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/clubsclass/redtape/Pages/legalclubslicensingact2003.aspx

Mark Hamill

keithclancy wrote: »

IMO, walking into a bar and expecting service for free is taking the piss.

I dont expect it for free, I pay for it with overpriced crisps and drinks.

davo10

"Incidently, all you need to stay in business is to break even, profit is what the owners line their pockets with" Quote Mark hamill

What planet are you on right now?, businesses need to make profits, not all businesses make a profit every month so they need reserves, also for expansion/modernization/refurbishment/unexpected downturn/expenses/closures eg due to weather. To expect a business owner to not want/need to make a profit is beyond comprehension. As for going to a pub and only eating pringles/crisps, you can bring your own and stand outside the pub, it will be cheaper for you and the pub owner.

noodler

Cabaal wrote: »

Its called profit, you know the thing all business's aim to maximise in order to stay in business.

Wow, genius.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

The way some people where going on, you would swear pubs and nightclubs where being run on a knife edge and only getting by by charging for tap water. If its just a case of greedy managers milking customers for all they got, then just say that.
Incidently, all you need to stay in business is to break even, profit is what the owners line their pockets with.

Exactly, I don't live in the country but where I live, no pub has actually had to close.

keithclancy wrote: »

On the Continent you usually pay to use the Toilet.

They are usually really clean though, it costs money to keep toilets clean ffs.

In Ireland the Toilets are usually manky, your lucky if theres a toilet seat.

Yeah, drinks are usually cheaper on the continent as well.

Mark Hamill

davo10 wrote: »

"Incidently, all you need to stay in business is to break even, profit is what the owners line their pockets with" Quote Mark hamill

What planet are you on right now?, businesses need to make profits, not all businesses make a profit every month so they need reserves, also for expansion/modernization/refurbishment/unexpected downturn/expenses/closures eg due to weather.

I dont run a business, but if I did, I would see break even as including these things. If I was going to need to expand/refurbish ect then I would include this in projected costs, and if I covered those costs then the business stays open. Things like refurbishments and even closures should be at least partially accounted for

davo10 wrote: »

To expect a business owner to not want/need to make a profit is beyond comprehension. As for going to a pub and only eating pringles/crisps, you can bring your own and stand outside the pub, it will be cheaper for you and the pub owner.

I never said I expected a business owner to want to make a profit (I already said "I'm not saying pubs cant earn money, but there is a point where they are taking the piss."). Everything in a business is a cost, but does that mean you start charging everything seperately to each individual? Should cinemas change to standing and start charging seperately for seats to actually sit down in? Should nightclubs start charging for specific songs to be played? At what stage do you say a charge is unjustified, that the supposed cost is negligable and its just a case of greed?

Run_to_da_hills

London night clubs have no issue with tap water, its freely available in over the counter or in the jacks however it is so horrible no one seems to go near it.

aN.Droid

I completed the bar skills course with Failte Ireland 2 years ago and my instructor told me numerous times that it was illegal to refuse someone a drink of water and use of the toilets. He was a man who was in the industry for over 50 years so I tend to believe him.

I would like to see the law though, just to clarify.

davo10

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I dont run a business, but if I did, I would see break even as including these things. If I was going to need to expand/refurbish ect then I would include this in projected costs, and if I covered those costs then the business stays open. Things like refurbishments and even closures should be at least partially accounted for


I never said I expected a business owner to want to make a profit (I already said "I'm not saying pubs cant earn money, but there is a point where they are taking the piss."). Everything in a business is a cost, but does that mean you start charging everything seperately to each individual? Should cinemas change to standing and start charging seperately for seats to actually sit down in? Should nightclubs start charging for specific songs to be played? At what stage do you say a charge is unjustified, that the supposed cost is negligable and its just a case of greed?

If you ran a business you would see making a profit as breaking even?, so whats your problem then?, applying your logic aren't all busiunesses who make a profit, just breaking even? doh.

One last question Mark because i think we are going off on a tangent from OP's post, how would you build up capital in the first place to be able to cope with these projected costs?

PS answer, 1. from profits or 2. bank loan, 3. own money. And while for tax purposes it may make better business sence to get a loan and write off interest, most banks are not now lending to small businesses so cash reserves/profits are the only option and guess what you need for that?, yes, profit.

Cabaal

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I dont run a business, but if I did, I would see break even as including these things

My my you';ve cracked it, may I suggest that you start your own business asap and you'll succeed in it on the basis that all you want to do is break even
:rolleyes:

Of course every other business in the world will laugh at you...but you'll show them
:pac:

noodler

davo10 wrote: »

As for going to a pub and only eating pringles/crisps, you can bring your own and stand outside the pub, it will be cheaper for you and the pub owner.

On what planet? What % of the pubs in Dublin would say no to a punter purchasing two packets of overprices Pringles and using the pub's seats? In what way does it cost the Publican anything?

Are you going to make an opportunity cost argument? Because I was under the impressions from all the bleating from the industry that they were gaving trouble filling seats.

Mark Hamill

davo10 wrote: »

If you ran a business you would see making a profit as breaking even?, so whats your problem then?, applying your logic aren't all busiunesses who make a profit, just breaking even? doh.

No, I would see breaking even as breaking even. I would just look past the previous week or two when considering if I broke even. Profit is money that goes into your pocket to spend on what you like. Money you put back into your business isn't profit, its costs.

davo10 wrote: »

One last question Mark because i think we are going off on a tangent from OP's post, how would you build up capital in the first place to be able to cope with these projected costs?

PS answer, 1. from profits or 2. bank loan, 3. own money. And while for tax purposes it may make better business sence to get a loan and write off interest, most banks are not now lending to small businesses so cash reserves/profits are the only option and guess what you need for that?, yes, profit.

But you cant consider it profit if you are planning to spend it back on the business, otherwise you could call every cent you take in the cash register profit.

Mark Hamill

Cabaal wrote: »

My my you';ve cracked it, may I suggest that you start your own business asap and you'll succeed in it on the basis that all you want to do is break even
:rolleyes:

Of course every other business in the world will laugh at you...but you'll show them
:pac:

Its bizarre the high horses people are on here, seeing as they dont seem to know the difference between income and profit and seem to be alien to teh idea of cost profections including possible refurbishments and uprgrades.

Although, come to think of it, it does explain a lot about why this country is going down the toilet.

Paulw

Limericks wrote: »

I completed the bar skills course with Failte Ireland 2 years ago and my instructor told me numerous times that it was illegal to refuse someone a drink of water and use of the toilets.

Maybe you should write to him and ask for his reference in law. Surely, if he's teaching, he should know where this is written?

Antomus Prime

Interesting Subject, and some interesting posts here, from what I've heard from friends that have worked in the industry, it's not illegal to charge for water. If they want to charge for it they can.

I've emailed a friend of mine who's a solicitor and when he gets back to me with the correct answer and a reference to the legislation i'll post it here.

skinny1

pubs in ireland if asked cannot refuse any person that walks through there door and asks for a glass of water,this is 100% fact

Cabaal

skinny1 wrote: »

pubs in ireland if asked cannot refuse any person that walks through there door and asks for a glass of water,this is 100% fact

Backup what your saying with a source and then its fact, otherwise what your saying is meaningless

skinny1

go check consumers rights and educate youself

seanmc1980

you educate us and post the link?

Pubs dont have to provide free water by law simple as. If anyone can provide me witha link to a common law case that says differently then i'll eat my words.

Cabaal

skinny1 wrote: »

go check consumers rights and educate youself

ah ok so your talking nonsense then because you know yourself you can't backup your claim. Thanks for your posts shame they were totally useless

:rolleyes:

dudara

skinny1 wrote: »

go check consumers rights and educate youself

It would be preferable if you could provide a link to support your statement.

dudara