Can pubs/niteclubs refuse you tapwater?

fret_wimp2

I was in D-Two last night and asked a member of the bar staff for a glass of tapwater. He refused, saying that they had no water.

I know the council were turning off water mains the last few days, but a nite club, who has flushing toilets, have to wash glasses, ice machines etc tell me they cant spare a glass of tap water.

Is that legal?

Paulw

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Is that legal?

Yes, it is. They are under no obligation to give you water, but I'm sure they'd gladly sell you a bottle of still water.

castie

As far as I remember a nightclub cant open without running water.

GerardKeating

castie wrote: »

As far as I remember a nightclub cant open without running water.

Just because they have running water, does not mean they have to give it away free.

And it's not unreasonable to charge for tap water, there is a real cost to the nightclub to give a customer a glass of tap water, the glass does not fill/wash itself.

Padraig Mor

I've often heard it said (including from nightclub staff) that all pubs/clubs (even all public buildings?) must provide water by law at no charge when asked. Is it an actual law? I dunno...... Perhaps it used to be tied into the whole 'hot meal in a nightclub' thing?

Paulw

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I've often heard it said (including from nightclub staff) that all pubs/clubs (even all public buildings?) must provide water by law at no charge when asked. Is it an actual law? I dunno...... Perhaps it used to be tied into the whole 'hot meal in a nightclub' thing?

Can you find that actual law please, and let us know?

That's just an old wives tale.

By law they must have running water, but they have no obligation to provide it to you for free.

MunsterCycling

Paulw wrote: »

Can you find that actual law please, and let us know?

That's just an old wives tale.

By law they must have running water, but they have no obligation to provide it to you for free.

And can you show in law where it states they can refuse? Any place refusing isn't worthy of your custom.

Jagle

im sure they are under no obligation to provide you with water for free, as water comes at a cost, both with staff costs and the cost of cleaning it, but also the fact businesses pay for water

the only reason i imagine a nightclub/pub would ever refuse giving a customer a glass of water would be again as people have mentioned city limiting supply of water

Adyx

I worked in a nightclub before (long since closed) and just before I started working there, they had been prosecuted for not providing cold water in the taps in the toilets and for refusing people glasses of tap water. So certainly I think they would be obliged to provide water. I would think the only issue is do they have to provide it for free.

Nonoperational

You wouldn't have a law saying they can refuse in fairness. That's just silly. It's their business I don't see why they would have to give you free water. Maybe they had running water from a backup supply that they were sparing for essentials.

Padraig Mor

Paulw wrote: »

Can you find that actual law please, and let us know?

That's just an old wives tale.

.

Perhaps you missed the bit in my post that said "Is it an actual law? I dunno...... "?

Cabaal

Given business pay water rates it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to charge for water,

I find it amusing that people will pay crazy prices for drink, admission price for getting into the niteclub but will then complain about not getting free water.....go figure :pac:

reprazant

I thought that anyone was obliged to give you water if you asked for it. That law, if it was a law that is, was in place when water was free. Not sure now.

As for there being no water, if they can't open with no flowing water then no pub, club or restaurant would have been open in Dublin after 7 for the last week.

They have flowing water from their tanks but these are not drinkable. If they have no mains, what do you want them to do? You asked for tap water. They didn't have any.

P. Breathnach

Cabaal wrote: »

...
I find it amusing that people will pay crazy prices for drink, admission price for getting into the niteclub but will then complain about not getting free water.....go figure :pac:

It is equally amusing that a venue charges you a crazy price for admission and then refuses people a drink of water.

reprazant wrote: »

... They didn't have any.

Obviously I don't know the facts in a particular case, and I suspect that you don't either. In general, however, I would be surprised if a bar did not have drinkable water on tap.

matrim

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I've often heard it said (including from nightclub staff) that all pubs/clubs (even all public buildings?) must provide water by law at no charge when asked. Is it an actual law? I dunno...... Perhaps it used to be tied into the whole 'hot meal in a nightclub' thing?

I always thought this only came into effect if they also served food but am open to correction on it.

Plazaman

There's no actual law to force a publican to provide free water. The Vintners Association have an unwritten rule that water should be provided on request for say Customer Service purposes, medical purposes etc. Fine and dandy for a local but for a mahor city centre night club with higher water charges and rates etc a different story. Still unless the customers is asking for pints of water all night, one glass of water shouldn't be a big deal.

Cabaal

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It is equally amusing that a venue charges you a crazy price for admission and then refuses people a drink of water.

They likely figure at that stage if your dumb enough to pay for that your likely dumb enough to pay for bottled water as well.

seamus

MunsterCycling wrote: »

And can you show in law where it states they can refuse?

Ain't how the law works. Unless they're legally compelled to do it, then they may legally refuse.

reprazant

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Obviously I don't know the facts in a particular case, and I suspect that you don't either. In general, however, I would be surprised if a bar did not have drinkable water on tap.

True, I don't know the facts but I do live in the city centre and for the last week my water has been turned off from 7 in the evening until 7 in the morning by the council due to severe water shortages.

If mine has, I would imagine theirs was as well.

TeaServer

About 6 years ago I saw a sign (several actually) displayed behind the bar in The Radisson in Galway.

It read:

Tap water FREE
Service Charge €2

Clever way around it I thought...

91011

Water has been turned off in dublin for the past few nights - it is causing hell for pubs / restaurants as they have to get in barells of water.

This is probably fine for flushing toilets and washing up after being heated but certainly not foor drinking.

Maybe, just maybe they were actually telling the truth?????????

Then again, maybe the op thinks that the pub staff don't want to be paid, the glasses wash themselves and the rent & heat on the premises is free.

Guy:Incognito

Adyx wrote: »

I worked in a nightclub before (long since closed) and just before I started working there, they had been prosecuted for not providing cold water in the taps in the toilets and for refusing people glasses of tap water. So certainly I think they would be obliged to provide water. I would think the only issue is do they have to provide it for free.

Did you actually see evidence of this prosecution or was this something you were told when you started to avoid you giving out free pints of water?

davo10

Considering the problems last year with bacteria in water in Galway, what would happen if a patron claimed they got sick from drinking tap water in a nightclub?, the water may be coming from a tank, not from the mains, take the hit and pay for a bottle, it's probably safer

nessie911

GerardKeating wrote: »

Just because they have running water, does not mean they have to give it away free.

And it's not unreasonable to charge for tap water, there is a real cost to the nightclub to give a customer a glass of tap water, the glass does not fill/wash itself.

Well the staff in my local would tell you that given a person a glass of tap water saves them in the long run, as it can both stop people from geting sick which theywould then have to clean up, but also it can settle the persons stomach, which will allow them to buy another drink.

But op I dont know if it is illegal not to give you water, i do think it is bad form, and that you should name and shame the place, and if it was me i would not bother going back there.

TouchingVirus

davo10 wrote: »

Considering the problems last year with bacteria in water in Galway, what would happen if a patron claimed they got sick from drinking tap water in a nightclub?, the water may be coming from a tank, not from the mains, take the hit and pay for a bottle, it's probably safer

But what if a rodent got beyond the rentokill and urinated on your bottle, contaminating the neck. Then you touch the neck off the glass while filling it the neck, touch it and pour the water into your glass and then get AIDS!? :eek:

Stop with the nonsense.

Adyx

Stekelly wrote: »

Did you actually see evidence of this prosecution or was this something you were told when you started to avoid you giving out free pints of water?

I don't understand what you mean. Why would they tell me they were being prosecuted for not providing drinkable tap water if they wanted me to continue the practice? For as long as I worked there and in every pub/club I've worked in since, tap water has always been provided free.

In addition to being told, it was also in one of the local papers afair.

91011

Adyx wrote: »

I don't understand what you mean. Why would they tell me they were being prosecuted for not providing drinkable tap water if they wanted me to continue the practice? For as long as I worked there and in every pub/club I've worked in since, tap water has always been provided free.

In addition to being told, it was also in one of the local papers afair.

They got prosecuted for not having running water in the toilets - this is a hygiene issue and they would have been prosecuted under health & safety legis;ation.

Not giving out free tap water is NOT illegal. - If anyone can show where any establishment must give free drinking water to anyone who asks for it, I'll dance naked on O'Connell st (that would be a dreadful sight!:D)

Adyx

91011 wrote: »

They got prosecuted for not having running water in the toilets - this is a hygiene issue and they would have been prosecuted under health & safety legis;ation.

Not giving out free tap water is NOT illegal. - If anyone can show where any establishment must give free drinking water to anyone who asks for it, I'll dance naked on O'Connell st (that would be a dreadful sight!:D)

No they didn't. Read my post again. They had no cold water in the toilets, there was hot water. To be fair this 10 years ago and I'm not 100% sure on the details but I do remember distinctly that the issue was no cold water in the toilets.
For what it's worth I do agree with you that it is not illegal to charge for water and nor should it be. However in practice I think most places do give it for free. A pint of tap water is a tiny amount of water compared to the amount used for cleaning, glasswashers, toilets or even the mineral guns used in some places.

Mark Hamill

91011 wrote: »

Then again, maybe the op thinks that the pub staff don't want to be paid, the glasses wash themselves and the rent & heat on the premises is free.

Pups pay for their staff, the washing up, the rent and heating by charging people for tap water? WTF are the entrance fee, the €2.50 for a small box of pringles and the €5.60 a pint of soft drink in aid of then?

davo10

TouchingVirus wrote: »

But what if a rodent got beyond the rentokill and urinated on your bottle, contaminating the neck. Then you touch the neck off the glass while filling it the neck, touch it and pour the water into your glass and then get AIDS!? :eek:

Stop with the nonsense.

My point being that you cannot be certain if you are getting mains or stored water, personally i prefer to drink the mains water from my Kitchen tap rather than the tap in my bathroom, but thats just me.

Incidently the disease you can get from rat pee is Weil's disease, not AIDS nobby. And as you brought it up, one of the ways it is transmitted is water supplies contaminated by animal urine coming in contact with broken skin/mucosa. I was thinking more of stomach bugs from stored water, you know, that type of nonsence.

"TouchingVirus"?, more like "WhatsaVirus"

foggy_lad

There is a law that I can't recall now that says once you are served in any licensed premises you have the right to use the toilets there and also once allowed onto the premises as a customer you have the right to a drink of water free of charge and after your water you then have the right to use the toilets in the establishment.

91011

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is a law that I can't recall now that says once you are served in any licensed premises you have the right to use the toilets there and also once allowed onto the premises as a customer you have the right to a drink of water free of charge and after your water you then have the right to use the toilets in the establishment.

The right to use the toilets? - More likely, that any licenced premises must have working toilets with running water and once you're on that premises and purchasing product, you have the right to use the facilities that must be provided.

But as for any right to have free water, this is absolute nonsense. But most pubs will out of courtesy provide one unless they think someone is taking the piss.

Cabaal

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is a law that I can't recall now that says once you are served in any licensed premises you have the right to use the toilets there and also once allowed onto the premises as a customer you have the right to a drink of water free of charge and after your water you then have the right to use the toilets in the establishment.

So again we have yet another person claiming something but not backing stuff up.

Toilets I'd imagine are part of the law but outside of that I can't see a law making it so a business must give free water to drink.

Can everyone stop this crap "there is such and such a law, or as far as I know etc", either backup what your saying or its only hear'say

Cabaal

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Pups pay for their staff, the washing up, the rent and heating by charging people for tap water? WTF are the entrance fee, the €2.50 for a small box of pringles and the €5.60 a pint of soft drink in aid of then?

Its called profit, you know the thing all business's aim to maximise in order to stay in business.

ebbsy

Cabaal wrote: »

So again we have yet another person claiming something but not backing stuff up.

Toilets I'd imagine are part of the law but outside of that I can't see a law making it so a business must give free water to drink.

Can everyone stop this crap "there is such and such a law, or as far as I know etc", either backup what your saying or its only hear'say

Hear Hear.

If you want to drink the water or use the toilet of a business then pay for it.

seamus

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Pups pay for their staff, the washing up, the rent and heating by charging people for tap water? WTF are the entrance fee, the €2.50 for a small box of pringles and the €5.60 a pint of soft drink in aid of then?

To be fair, most pubs don't charge entrance fees, even in Dublin City centre. Only nightclubs and a small number of pubs do.

From the pub's point of view, one guy comes in, sits at the bar and asks for a glass of water. He then sits there drinking it for 20 minutes while he watches the telly and on his way out he uses the toilet. Costing the pub money and contributing nothing. Even if he bought a box of pringles, I imagine the pub would happy.
Despite the origin of the word "pub", it's still a business, not a public sitting room.

There was a thread somewhere on boards a while back where a guy went into a busy pub to watch a gig. He sat at the bar and got a drink of water. Two glasses later, the barman came up to him and told him to sling his hook. And rightly so - he was taking up space in the pub that could have been taken up by a paying customer, enjoying music that the pub was paying for, and expecting to be served glasses of water.

FWIW, I've never been refused a glass of water in any pub, but then I would usually order it with (or shortly after) other drinks. And no pub would ever throw out a teetotaller who was with other drinkers.

Mark Hamill

Cabaal wrote: »

Its called profit, you know the thing all business's aim to maximise in order to stay in business.

The way some people where going on, you would swear pubs and nightclubs where being run on a knife edge and only getting by by charging for tap water. If its just a case of greedy managers milking customers for all they got, then just say that.
Incidently, all you need to stay in business is to break even, profit is what the owners line their pockets with.

Mark Hamill

seamus wrote: »

To be fair, most pubs don't charge entrance fees, even in Dublin City centre. Only nightclubs and a small number of pubs do.

From the pub's point of view, one guy comes in, sits at the bar and asks for a glass of water. He then sits there drinking it for 20 minutes while he watches the telly and on his way out he uses the toilet. Costing the pub money and contributing nothing. Even if he bought a box of pringles, I imagine the pub would happy.
Despite the origin of the word "pub", it's still a business, not a public sitting room.

I'm not saying pubs cant earn money, but there is a point where they are taking the piss. Someone using the toilets and drinking a glass of water is not going to cost a pub that much at all, and if they are treated well and made welcome then the pub is going to encourage repeat custom.

seamus wrote: »

There was a thread somewhere on boards a while back where a guy went into a busy pub to watch a gig. He sat at the bar and got a drink of water. Two glasses later, the barman came up to him and told him to sling his hook. And rightly so - he was taking up space in the pub that could have been taken up by a paying customer, enjoying music that the pub was paying for, and expecting to be served glasses of water.

FWIW, I've never been refused a glass of water in any pub, but then I would usually order it with (or shortly after) other drinks. And no pub would ever throw out a teetotaller who was with other drinkers.

Pubs are a business, but they are in the hospistality/entertainment sector and in the hospitality/entertainment sector you cant be expecting to make money off everyone at every turn. Otherwise ryanair would have long sinced opened pubs where you pay to sit on chairs (extra service fee for cushions), straws would have to be returned after use (with fines for damages) etc etc.

keithclancy

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I'm not saying pubs cant earn money, but there is a point where they are taking the piss. Someone using the toilets and drinking a glass of water is not going to cost a pub that much at all, and if they are treated well and made welcome then the pub is going to encourage repeat custom.


Pubs are a business, but they are in the hospistality/entertainment sector and in the hospitality/entertainment sector you cant be expecting to make money off everyone at every turn. Otherwise ryanair would have long sinced opened pubs where you pay to sit on chairs (extra service fee for cushions), straws would have to be returned after use (with fines for damages) etc etc.

On the Continent you usually pay to use the Toilet.

They are usually really clean though, it costs money to keep toilets clean ffs.

In Ireland the Toilets are usually manky, your lucky if theres a toilet seat.

IMO, walking into a bar and expecting service for free is taking the piss.

Keith186

I have to say I thought all public houses were obliged to have toilets and serve water as many posters have already said. Don't have anything to back that up other than I heard it years ago.

If its a requirement or not you should never be refused free tap water unless you are taking the piss.

Paulw

Keith186 wrote: »

I have to say I thought all public houses were obliged to have toilets and serve water as many posters have already said.

Yes, they must have toilets (with running water), and no they have no legal obligation to serve water for free.

Simple as that.

axer

This year the UK made it compulsory for licensed clubs to provide free tap water. Don't think there is anything here like that though.
http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/clubsclass/redtape/Pages/legalclubslicensingact2003.aspx

Mark Hamill

keithclancy wrote: »

IMO, walking into a bar and expecting service for free is taking the piss.

I dont expect it for free, I pay for it with overpriced crisps and drinks.

davo10

"Incidently, all you need to stay in business is to break even, profit is what the owners line their pockets with" Quote Mark hamill

What planet are you on right now?, businesses need to make profits, not all businesses make a profit every month so they need reserves, also for expansion/modernization/refurbishment/unexpected downturn/expenses/closures eg due to weather. To expect a business owner to not want/need to make a profit is beyond comprehension. As for going to a pub and only eating pringles/crisps, you can bring your own and stand outside the pub, it will be cheaper for you and the pub owner.

noodler

Cabaal wrote: »

Its called profit, you know the thing all business's aim to maximise in order to stay in business.

Wow, genius.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

The way some people where going on, you would swear pubs and nightclubs where being run on a knife edge and only getting by by charging for tap water. If its just a case of greedy managers milking customers for all they got, then just say that.
Incidently, all you need to stay in business is to break even, profit is what the owners line their pockets with.

Exactly, I don't live in the country but where I live, no pub has actually had to close.

keithclancy wrote: »

On the Continent you usually pay to use the Toilet.

They are usually really clean though, it costs money to keep toilets clean ffs.

In Ireland the Toilets are usually manky, your lucky if theres a toilet seat.

Yeah, drinks are usually cheaper on the continent as well.

Mark Hamill

davo10 wrote: »

"Incidently, all you need to stay in business is to break even, profit is what the owners line their pockets with" Quote Mark hamill

What planet are you on right now?, businesses need to make profits, not all businesses make a profit every month so they need reserves, also for expansion/modernization/refurbishment/unexpected downturn/expenses/closures eg due to weather.

I dont run a business, but if I did, I would see break even as including these things. If I was going to need to expand/refurbish ect then I would include this in projected costs, and if I covered those costs then the business stays open. Things like refurbishments and even closures should be at least partially accounted for

davo10 wrote: »

To expect a business owner to not want/need to make a profit is beyond comprehension. As for going to a pub and only eating pringles/crisps, you can bring your own and stand outside the pub, it will be cheaper for you and the pub owner.

I never said I expected a business owner to want to make a profit (I already said "I'm not saying pubs cant earn money, but there is a point where they are taking the piss."). Everything in a business is a cost, but does that mean you start charging everything seperately to each individual? Should cinemas change to standing and start charging seperately for seats to actually sit down in? Should nightclubs start charging for specific songs to be played? At what stage do you say a charge is unjustified, that the supposed cost is negligable and its just a case of greed?

Run_to_da_hills

London night clubs have no issue with tap water, its freely available in over the counter or in the jacks however it is so horrible no one seems to go near it.

aN.Droid

I completed the bar skills course with Failte Ireland 2 years ago and my instructor told me numerous times that it was illegal to refuse someone a drink of water and use of the toilets. He was a man who was in the industry for over 50 years so I tend to believe him.

I would like to see the law though, just to clarify.

davo10

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I dont run a business, but if I did, I would see break even as including these things. If I was going to need to expand/refurbish ect then I would include this in projected costs, and if I covered those costs then the business stays open. Things like refurbishments and even closures should be at least partially accounted for


I never said I expected a business owner to want to make a profit (I already said "I'm not saying pubs cant earn money, but there is a point where they are taking the piss."). Everything in a business is a cost, but does that mean you start charging everything seperately to each individual? Should cinemas change to standing and start charging seperately for seats to actually sit down in? Should nightclubs start charging for specific songs to be played? At what stage do you say a charge is unjustified, that the supposed cost is negligable and its just a case of greed?

If you ran a business you would see making a profit as breaking even?, so whats your problem then?, applying your logic aren't all busiunesses who make a profit, just breaking even? doh.

One last question Mark because i think we are going off on a tangent from OP's post, how would you build up capital in the first place to be able to cope with these projected costs?

PS answer, 1. from profits or 2. bank loan, 3. own money. And while for tax purposes it may make better business sence to get a loan and write off interest, most banks are not now lending to small businesses so cash reserves/profits are the only option and guess what you need for that?, yes, profit.

Cabaal

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I dont run a business, but if I did, I would see break even as including these things

My my you';ve cracked it, may I suggest that you start your own business asap and you'll succeed in it on the basis that all you want to do is break even
:rolleyes:

Of course every other business in the world will laugh at you...but you'll show them
:pac:

noodler

davo10 wrote: »

As for going to a pub and only eating pringles/crisps, you can bring your own and stand outside the pub, it will be cheaper for you and the pub owner.

On what planet? What % of the pubs in Dublin would say no to a punter purchasing two packets of overprices Pringles and using the pub's seats? In what way does it cost the Publican anything?

Are you going to make an opportunity cost argument? Because I was under the impressions from all the bleating from the industry that they were gaving trouble filling seats.