Precision Engineered Creatine and Whey Protein - Need Advice

V3nd3tta

Hi,

I am just a beginner in bodybuilding and I just bought Precision Engineered Creatine http://www.hollandandbarrett.ie/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=574&prodid=562and Whey Proteinhttp://www.hollandandbarrett.ie/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=100&prodid=564 so I need a bit of advice. I weigh 205 lbs (93kg) and my questions are as follows:

On the the box for creatine it says to take one scoop which is apparently 43 grams by 4 times daily for the maintenance phase. The creatine is grape flavored as you can see in the above link. Is this not a bit too much ? Does this mean that in the 43 grams of the actual product there is 5 grams creatine and the rest 38g is just flavor? Anyone use this product before ?

Also for whey protein how much should I be drinking ?


Any advice would be helpful I do not want to overdose.

Cheers

gavtron

As far as I understand it your body will only absorb around 5-10g of creatine in a day, the rest is just waste and you excrete it. Maintainence and loading phases were just made up to sell more creatine.
From reading what you've bought it looks more like a post workout shake to my untrained eyes..has dextrose and taurine in it...dextrose can be useful for replenishing your glycogen levels i think, don't use it myself. The mix you bought has a lot of carbs in it, if it was just creatine that's all you'd see in the ingredients list.

I'm open to correction on this but that's just my view.

V3nd3tta

Cheers for the reply.

Yeah that is what I thought myself aswell, I was just told to take the 43 gram scoop a day because in that 43 grams only 5.25 gram is actually creatine. Should have just bought pure creatine...

Hanley

gavtron wrote: »

As far as I understand it your body will only absorb around 5-10g of creatine in a day, the rest is just waste and you excrete it. Maintainence and loading phases were just made up to sell more creatine.

Anyone who's high dosed creatine would probably tell you differently.

V3nd3tta

Well Hanley what is your opinion should I take more or what? Do you take it ?

Hanley

V3nd3tta wrote: »

Well Hanley what is your opinion should I take more or what? Do you take it ?

My opinion is it probably doesn't matter how much creatine your taking.

5g of creatine is fine, which is probably about what's in one of your scoops.

V3nd3tta

Thank You

gavtron

Hanley wrote: »

Anyone who's high dosed creatine would probably tell you differently.

Ok cool, is it effective to take it in a loading/maintenance phase? Or is there a right or wrong way to take it?

I always see conflicting views on it really, would like to hear your opinion.

Hanley

gavtron wrote: »

Ok cool, is it effective to take it in a loading/maintenance phase? Or is there a right or wrong way to take it?

I always see conflicting views on it really, would like to hear your opinion.

If your stomach can handle it, take 20g per day for 3 weeks and tell me what happens!!

I always get better results with 20-30g daily.

gavtron

Hanley wrote: »

If your stomach can handle it, take 20g per day for 3 weeks and tell me what happens!!

I always get better results with 20-30g daily.

Cheers, I'll let you know how i get on!

Mellor

As mentioned, the mix is mostly sugar, with some vreatine.
It's basically 33g carbs with 5-6g creatine per 43g

finish it off and get pure mono nect time. Even flavoured stuff will have 5g creatine per 6g powder

V3nd3tta

Mellor wrote: »

As mentioned, the mix is mostly sugar, with some vreatine.
It's basically 33g carbs with 5-6g creatine per 43g

finish it off and get pure mono nect time. Even flavoured stuff will have 5g creatine per 6g powder

Already got one this morning when I was heading into work. No point drinking the rest of the thing I guess...

Mellor

tbh its fine pre-workout as an energy drink imo

DARCHA22

V3nd3tta wrote: »

Hi,

I am just a beginner in bodybuilding and I just bought Precision Engineered Creatine http://www.hollandandbarrett.ie/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=574&prodid=562and Whey Proteinhttp://www.hollandandbarrett.ie/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=100&prodid=564 so I need a bit of advice. I weigh 205 lbs (93kg) and my questions are as follows:

On the the box for creatine it says to take one scoop which is apparently 43 grams by 4 times daily for the maintenance phase. The creatine is grape flavored as you can see in the above link. Is this not a bit too much ? Does this mean that in the 43 grams of the actual product there is 5 grams creatine and the rest 38g is just flavor? Anyone use this product before ?

Also for whey protein how much should I be drinking ?


Any advice would be helpful I do not want to overdose.

Cheers

€38.99 for 908g of protein :eek: , one bit of advice shop elsewhere

HP NUTRITION do 2.5kg of whey for the same price
reflex-nutrition.ie

Even go to a normal supplement shop(not H&B) and you will get a 5lb tub of whey for €50, that still saving you money, but online is cheaper.

UK bulk suppliers do 2.5kg of whey for less that 30euro
(bulkpowders, bulksupplementsdirect, myprotein)

Shop around so it saves you money, same applies to the creatine.

One bit of advice dont follow the directions on most products, suppliers usually have crazy dosing etc, always do your research on everything.

DARCHA22

V3nd3tta wrote: »

Hi,


Also for whey protein how much should I be drinking ?



Cheers

Depends on your diet and how much protein you need.

Calc your daily proetin requirements and if you are short in your diet add a shake or two.

bossdon

Id recommend ON 100% whey gold standard 5lbs tub for €47.99 I take one scoop when I wake up and one after workout. 1 tub will last about a month. Also you should checkout this youtube video and other videos he posted. It gives good advice for beginners.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BodyByBrendan#p/u/26/O11-baazoFQ

V3nd3tta

Ah well I made a mistake, I was just told to get it in the beginning since I am a beginner. Next time I will know ... Thx for the reply`s

theKramer

As regards creatine loading.
The only benefit of loading, i.e. taking 15 - 20g of creatine a day for the first 5 days or whatever, is that you see results faster. If you take 5g/day you will see the same results over a fixed 10 week period, its just that with the loading you have more creatine in your body initially.

With creatine, dont take it for more than 3 months at a time, and take at least 4 - 6 weeks off it. Also, make sure to drink at least 3ltrs of water extra per day.

And if you can lay off the beer, it would help as well, as you get worse hangovers when on creatine. Beer dehydrates you and means less water for creatine.

V3nd3tta

Yeah will do, u should have told me that last night... big hangover

theKramer

Thats why Im waiting til the new year before I go back on it. Wanna make sure I will have no major drinking going on while Im on it

This is what I use.

- The Superpump250 is preworkout, and gets you really focused (lots of caffeine & other stuff). You ONLY take it just before a workout, never on a non-training day!!
- The Sizeon is during/post workout.

The only downside with those is that you have to be really disciplined with the timing of taking them, but I have used a good few different creatine products and find that those two work the best for me.

I suppose everyone has their own preference, but once I tried the Gaspari stuff, I have never used anything else...

As regards protein intake, I usually take a protein shake after my workout, as obviously your muscles need it most then. I also take it at night just before bed, as your body rebuilds during your sleep, and usually in the morning when I wake up, as the body is low on protein after 8 hours of sleep and no food :-) That is on top of my brekkie and two main meals a day. Dont look on protein as a meal replacement. Its a supplement, so its in addition to your normal food intake. Also, you can take protein continuously, i.e. no need to go off it like you have to with creatine. There is no issue with that.

You would need to be exercising 4 or 5 days a week to justify that amount of protein intake. I play rugby and go to the gym, so thats why I take that much protein.

P.S. That website charges £10 for shipping no matter how big the order

Creatine is not bad for you per se, but you just need to know the basic rules:
Take on empty stomach to speed up absorption
Drink lots of water
Cut down on the beer
Cycle off every 10 - 12 weeks. Creatine occurs naturally in our bodies, and we get a small bit from meat, but in tiny doses. If you take it for something like 6 months or more, your body could become dependent on it. Kind of like why you dont take antibiotics continuously, as your body will favour the stronger source. Why make its own when it can get a better source somewhere else.

ray jay

theKramer wrote: »

Also, make sure to drink at least 3ltrs of water extra per day.

what happens if you don't do this?

Hanley

ray jay wrote: »

what happens if you don't do this?

Syphilis.

One of the lesser known side effects of creatine.

DARCHA22

theKramer wrote: »

Creatine is not bad for you per se, but you just need to know the basic rules:
Take on empty stomach to speed up absorption
Drink lots of water
Cut down on the beer
Cycle off every 10 - 12 weeks. Creatine occurs naturally in our bodies, and we get a small bit from meat, but in tiny doses. If you take it for something like 6 months or more, your body could become dependent on it. Kind of like why you dont take antibiotics continuously, as your body will favour the stronger source. Why make its own when it can get a better source somewhere else.

There is absolutly no need to cycle creatine at all.
There is no proof that cycling it is better for your body.
You can take creatine every day and it will have zero effect on yuor health.

Taking creatine on an empty stomach or a full stomach, dosent matter really.

And you can take creatine any time of the day, with or without carbs.

Just wanted to clear all that up.

DARCHA22

ray jay wrote: »

what happens if you don't do this?

Your willy falls off and you get man boobs :eek:

theKramer

ray jay wrote: »

what happens if you don't do this?

Creatine works in parts by absorbing water into your muscles, so you need to take in more water to counteract this.

theKramer

DARCHA22 wrote: »

There is absolutly no need to cycle creatine at all.
There is no proof that cycling it is better for your body.
You can take creatine every day and it will have zero effect on yuor health.

Taking creatine on an empty stomach or a full stomach, dosent matter really.

And you can take creatine any time of the day, with or without carbs.

Just wanted to clear all that up.

Its better to take it on an empty stomach, as then it will go into your bloodstream quicker.

Degsy

Creatine doesnt work..Working out works!

What i mean is its not a miracle supplement..you can take all the creatine in the world but without proper training,diet and rest nothing will happen...

DARCHA22

theKramer wrote: »

Its better to take it on an empty stomach, as then it will go into your bloodstream quicker.

Thats not true at all.

Its actually recommended that you take creatine ona partial or full stomach to avoid stomach discomfort.

It make no difference either way.

DARCHA22

theKramer wrote: »

Also, make sure to drink at least 3ltrs of water extra per day.
.

Nope, depends on the person and how much water they already take in.

So if i drink 1 gallon of water a day(4.5 LITRES), which is loads, your saying i shud drink 3 litres more per day. LOL

Hanley

DARCHA22 wrote: »

Thats not true at all.

Its actually recommended that you take creatine ona partial or full stomach to avoid stomach discomfort.

It make no difference either way.

Speaking the truth here.

And if you're worried about absorption rate, just take it earlier!!

theKramer

DARCHA22 wrote: »

Thats not true at all.

Its actually recommended that you take creatine ona partial or full stomach to avoid stomach discomfort.

It make no difference either way.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I have seen as many that say not to eat anything, but to start off on a light dose.

And I did state that Gaspari does not play well with a full stomach. They also recommend to start off on a lower dosage to assess tolerance. I have used it a number of times, but I still always start off on a third of the standard dosage and work my way up...

DARCHA22 wrote: »

Nope, depends on the person and how much water they already take in.

So if i drink 1 gallon of water a day(4.5 LITRES), which is loads, your saying i shud drink 3 litres more per day. LOL

I would agree with that. If someone is drinking 4.5 litres of water a day already they are fine, but Id venture not many are. I should have been more specific....

DARCHA22

theKramer wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I have seen as many that say not to eat anything, but to start off on a light dose.

And I did state that Gaspari does not play well with a full stomach. They also recommend to start off on a lower dosage to assess tolerance. I have used it a number of times, but I still always start off on a third of the standard dosage and work my way up...

QUOTE]

Creaine in general can casue stomach discomfort

Gaspari Sp250 casues stomach discomfort becasue
1. High in magnesium which is a laxative in high doses(SP250 has them doses)
2. High caffeien content, caffeien can casue some people to have a sudden urge to go sit on a toilet.


Full, partial, empty stomach, makes no difference as far as creatine is concerned.

The products you mention might say on an empty stomach, becasue of the ingredients in lets say SP250. Arginine AKG efects are more noticible on an empty stomach, same with caffeine, this has nothing to do with taking it on an empty stomach because of the creatine.

Do a little research and dont always follow the label.

V3nd3tta

Degsy wrote: »

Creatine doesnt work..Working out works!

What i mean is its not a miracle supplement..you can take all the creatine in the world but without proper training,diet and rest nothing will happen...

:P I know that but it helps

theKramer

DARCHA22 wrote: »

theKramer wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I have seen as many that say not to eat anything, but to start off on a light dose.

And I did state that Gaspari does not play well with a full stomach. They also recommend to start off on a lower dosage to assess tolerance. I have used it a number of times, but I still always start off on a third of the standard dosage and work my way up...

QUOTE]

Creaine in general can casue stomach discomfort

Gaspari Sp250 casues stomach discomfort becasue
1. High in magnesium which is a laxative in high doses(SP250 has them doses)
2. High caffeien content, caffeien can casue some people to have a sudden urge to go sit on a toilet.


Full, partial, empty stomach, makes no difference as far as creatine is concerned.

The products you mention might say on an empty stomach, becasue of the ingredients in lets say SP250. Arginine AKG efects are more noticible on an empty stomach, same with caffeine, this has nothing to do with taking it on an empty stomach because of the creatine.

Do a little research and dont always follow the label.

I prefer to actually post based on my own personal experience. I have never had any problems taking Gaspari on an empty stomach, because I tried it on a low dosage, and worked my way up. Not one problem. None.

Which is why I am also recommending that anyone who takes it does the same, because from my own personal experience of using this product, I have never had an issue when taking on an empty stomach. Now Im not recommending that a person not eat all day, but that they take it about 2 hours at least after a major meal, or an hr after a very light snack. Which is what the label says.

And I also stated that I took the Superpump on semi-full stomach, only once though, and it did NOT play nice. Gave me a queasy type feeling. Nothing really bad, just a kind of bloated feeling. Which is probably why they recommend you dont take it on a full stomach!!!

And its pretty reckless to recommend to people to not follow the label. Guidelines are there for a reason. And I will qualify again by saying I have used this product myself and I had no problems with following the advice of the manufacturer. See my point :cool:

V3nd3tta

theKramer wrote: »

DARCHA22 wrote: »

I prefer to actually post based on my own personal experience. I have never had any problems taking Gaspari on an empty stomach, because I tried it on a low dosage, and worked my way up. Not one problem. None.

Which is why I am also recommending that anyone who takes it does the same, because from my own personal experience of using this product, I have never had an issue when taking on an empty stomach. Now Im not recommending that a person not eat all day, but that they take it about 2 hours at least after a major meal, or an hr after a very light snack. Which is what the label says.

And its pretty reckless to recommend to people to not follow the label. Guidelines are there for a reason. And I will qualify again by saying I have used this product myself and I had no problems with following the advice of the manufacturer. See my point :cool:

I just ordered it I :):)

theKramer

V3nd3tta wrote: »

theKramer wrote: »

I just ordered it I :):)

By the way, as the label states dont take it too late in the evening as the caffeine might keep you awake. I wouldnt recommend taking it any later than 5 or 6pm if you can. Depends on how you react to caffeine, I suppose.

I really like the Superpump, as when I go into the gym, I get this awesome "I ain't gonna let any weight get the better of me" type of determination. More than normally, of course

DARCHA22

theKramer wrote: »

DARCHA22 wrote: »

I prefer to actually post based on my own personal experience. I have never had any problems taking Gaspari on an empty stomach, because I tried it on a low dosage, and worked my way up. Not one problem. None.

Which is why I am also recommending that anyone who takes it does the same, because from my own personal experience of using this product, I have never had an issue when taking on an empty stomach. Now Im not recommending that a person not eat all day, but that they take it about 2 hours at least after a major meal, or an hr after a very light snack. Which is what the label says.

And I also stated that I took the Superpump on semi-full stomach, only once though, and it did NOT play nice. Gave me a queasy type feeling. Nothing really bad, just a kind of bloated feeling. Which is probably why they recommend you dont take it on a full stomach!!!

And its pretty reckless to recommend to people to not follow the label. Guidelines are there for a reason. And I will qualify again by saying I have used this product myself and I had no problems with following the advice of the manufacturer. See my point :cool:

No you didnt, you specifivcally talked about CREATINE, not SP250.

In relation to SP250 i pointed out how someone "might" have a funny stomach on it.

You said take CREATINE on an empty stomach for better absorbtion, You are wrong.

99% of what you are posting is wrong,.

Reckless, dont make me laugh, Yes NEVER follow the instructions, WHY??
1. They are designed to make you take more, so you spend more money

Example, Load creatine 20g a day for 5 days, then take a break, then load again. Simple economics here, you end up spending more money.

Example 2, Take a protein shake 3 times a day, i can guarentee you that more than half the people that buy shakes donet even need them, casue they either get enuf protein from diet or dont train hard enuf to justify it.

Each product will work diff for everyone, i would go to a forum if i was unsure about a product and see what people think before i followed the back of a tub.

An example i read about was the back of a prohormone tub said no pct needed, when PCT was bloddy essential, whos reckless now.........

You need to read back over what you are posting mate, and learn to debate in a linear fashion.

How can you say "from you personal experiences" that creatine gets absorbed better on an empty stomach, what scientific measurements have you used to determine that??

By taking "gaspari" you do know "Gaspari" is a company and not a product.

V3nd3tta

theKramer wrote: »

V3nd3tta wrote: »

By the way, as the label states dont take it too late in the evening as the caffeine might keep you awake. I wouldnt recommend taking it any later than 5 or 6pm if you can. Depends on how you react to caffeine, I suppose.

I really like the Superpump, as when I go into the gym, I get this awesome "I ain't gonna let any weight get the better of me" type of determination. More than normally, of course

That`s cool... Yeah I won`t I usually take my supplements around that time just before the gym anyway

DARCHA22

theKramer wrote: »

DARCHA22 wrote: »

Forget about GASPARI products.

You gaVe the rules for takign CREATINE.

What you posted about creatine, cycling, absorpton etc, is wrong.

Now you decide you want to continue the debate with a different thing altogether, Superpump250, OR as you call it " Gaspari"

Gaspari say something about their product and you simply apply it to CREATINE, that dont work man

DARCHA22

Im out!

theKramer

DARCHA22 wrote: »

theKramer wrote: »

No you didnt, you specifivcally talked about CREATINE, not SP250.

The thread started focusing specifically on SP250, so I gave specifics on it.

DARCHA22 wrote: »

theKramer wrote: »

In relation to SP250 i pointed out how someone "might" have a funny stomach on it.

You said take CREATINE on an empty stomach for better absorbtion, You are wrong.

99% of what you are posting is wrong,.

And I posted that taking it close after a meal is a bad idea, as I did that and it didnt play well, whereas I have never had an issue with an empty stomach. With this or any creatine.

DARCHA22 wrote: »

theKramer wrote: »

Reckless, dont make me laugh, Yes NEVER follow the instructions, WHY??
1. They are designed to make you take more, so you spend more money

Example, Load creatine 20g a day for 5 days, then take a break, then load again. Simple economics here, you end up spending more money.

I already agreed with you on that point and explained in my own post that over a longer fixed period, it made no difference, just that you would notice results quicker.

DARCHA22 wrote: »

theKramer wrote: »

Example 2, Take a protein shake 3 times a day, i can guarentee you that more than half the people that buy shakes donet even need them, casue they either get enuf protein from diet or dont train hard enuf to justify it.

In that post I stated that I was a rugby player, and also stated in the same post that one would want to be training 4 or 5 days a week to justify that much protein intake. And the OP said he wants to get into bodybuilding, so he probably will be doing enough to justify it.

DARCHA22 wrote: »

theKramer wrote: »

Each product will work diff for everyone, i would go to a forum if i was unsure about a product and see what people think before i followed the back of a tub.

Which is what he did, and I gave him info on a particular product I have used.

DARCHA22 wrote: »

theKramer wrote: »

An example i read about was the back of a prohormone tub said no pct needed, when PCT was bloddy essential, whos reckless now.........

You need to read back over what you are posting mate, and learn to debate in a linear fashion.

I never mentioned anything about pro-hormones so you cant really beat me with that stick.
There are good and bad supplements out there, as there are with any product. I gave him info on one I used and rate quite highly. For example, I have used BSN NO-Xplode and NutritionX Xplode 2, but wouldnt recommend them as I found the SP250 way superior to them.

DARCHA22 wrote: »

theKramer wrote: »

How can you say "from you personal experiences" that creatine gets absorbed better on an empty stomach, what scientific measurements have you used to determine that??

What scientific measurements have you to say otherwise?

DARCHA22 wrote: »

theKramer wrote: »

By taking "gaspari" you do know "Gaspari" is a company and not a product.

I do. And since I provided the link to the product, I assumed people would be able to go to that link and see what I was talking about, and then differentiate.

I'm out too.

DARCHA22

Dude you seriously need to learn how to read, i was giving examples of guidelines on tubs and you took them all personally WTF!
They were examples and nothing to do with YOU, i was illustrating clearly my point.

Congratulations on doing a full circle without joining the ends, I think this is the first time i have ever seen anyone to confuse themselves in a debate(sure its all written in frint of you to re-read over an over)

I look forward to your next input into threads, however confusing and wrong that might be.

I really hope you dont give advice to people outside of forums, i can imagine they would be injecting whey or sumtin, or rubbing glutamin on their skin.

Anyway, go read the thread back and if you figure out which topic you want to stay on or if you actually understood the logical sequence of this thread then maybe there might be hope for you. BUT i doubt it.