Breaking news: 'Sinn Féin may take Govt to court over bailout deal'

Dionysus

Finally, some political party is doing what I, and many others, have been hoping: challenging the right of the current government to promise, on our behalf, to cover the debts of private banks and lenders.

Story: here

But Sinn Féin has gone further:

'Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams said: "Any new government should refuse to honour the terms of the IMF/EU deal and Sinn Féin will seek a mandate in the General Election to renegotiate it. [my emphasis]

This Government has no mandate to impose the terrible deal it has negotiated with the IMF and EU.

The interest payments alone will cripple our public finances for years.'

---

Do you think the government's decision to accept this bailout should be challenged? Do you think any new government should renegotiate this dreadful "deal" for Irish taxpayers and Irish sovereignty?

liah

Interesting move to gain votes. Wonder if they'd follow through?

stovelid

Dionysus wrote: »

Do you think the government's decision to accept this bailout should be challenged?

Do you think any new government should renegotiate this dreadful "deal" for Irish taxpayers and Irish sovereignty?

Yes and Yes to above.

No and No to Sinn Fein,

Saila

wont someone please think of the children soverinty

ScumLord

liah wrote: »

Interesting move to gain votes. Wonder if they'd follow through?

Sinn Fien have little to lose why wouldn't they.

stovelid

Wouldn't it just be easier to lure bring the IMF delegation to an abandoned warehouse and let Dessie Ellis and Martin Ferris negotiate a new deal?

Dionysus

liah wrote: »

Interesting move to gain votes. Wonder if they'd follow through?

True. But I think somebody should be doing this, just as I think somebody should have challenged the refusal to hold that election in Donegal. Where are the other parties?!

I think we've got a terrible, terrible deal out of this. I've yet to read anybody who thinks it was a good deal for us. Some organisation in Irish politics has to challenge it.

I wish it had been Labour as I had it in mind to vote for them. I want the impressively anti-government performance of Burton, Gilmore, Rabbitte et al to extend beyond the television screen.

sensibleken

There was an article in the times today with Pat Rabbitte saying they were breaching the constitution, which seems fairly clear cut, and will consider brining a challenge once he receives clarrification from the government

Giggernaut

Fail - in that Sinn Fein will huff and puff with great gusto but will ultimately fizzle out.

Dave!

Will Gerry Adams not just fook off? He getting bored of Norn Iron politics or somethin?

phantom_lord

Dionysus wrote: »

This Government has no mandate to impose the terrible deal it has negotiated with the IMF and EU.

How do they work that out?

Do they have any legal basis for a challenge?

TwoShedsJackson

Sinn Fein can say what they want because they know they'll never have to follow up on it.

Donkey Oaty

Sinn Féin is considering a legal challenge to the Government's decision not to put the EU/IMF bailout deal to a Dáil vote.

Ehh....hmm....what do yez think?

I'm considering calling them feckin' money-hungry public-opinion-thirsty cowards.

Notorious97

Yes they should definitely do this, and yes i think given the chance they would definitely follow through in attempting to re do the deal agreed. Why wouldn’t they, they successfully defeated the Gov in court over Donegal, they have nothing to lose, they are doing the right thing and sticking up for Irish people here.

People will still drag them back to the troubles, but for once i wish the anti republicans would for a second put aside the fact it is a republican party doing this and recognise they are the only god damn Irish party standing up to the Gov and backing up their words with actions (Donegal being the example so far). FG and Labour are poor excuses for Irish parties, if they want some respect they would take the Gov to court too.

Fair play to Sinn Fein

Wolfe Tone

Yet again Sinn Fein are the only ones to stand up to this disgrace of a government.

Guy:Incognito

So SF are going to stop us getting money and the unions are going to bring the country to a grinding halt to prevent us from stopping spending money we dont have, I cant see how any of this will adversely affect us.

Donkey Oaty

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Yet again Sinn Fein are the only ones to stand up to this disgrace of a government.

No.

Dionysus

phantom_lord wrote: »

How do they work that out?

Do they have any legal basis for a challenge?

If the government does not have a vote in the Dáil it would seem that Sinn Féin could be on strong grounds under Article 29 Section 5 & 6 of Bunreacht na hÉireann?

5. 1° Every international agreement to which the State becomes a party shall be laid before Dáil Éireann.

2° The State shall not be bound by any international agreement involving a charge upon public funds unless the terms of the agreement shall have been approved by Dáil Éireann.

3° This section shall not apply to agreements or conventions of a technical and adminstrative character.

6. No international agreement shall be part of the domestic law of the State save as may be determined by the Oireachtas.

Here

Other than that, I'm not sure what the constitutional basis of their opposition is.

Stekelly

Stekelly wrote: »

So SF are going to stop us getting money and the unions are going to bring the country to a grinding halt to prevent us from stopping spending money we dont have, I cant see how any of this will adversely affect us.

Ahh no....AFAIK they would like the bailout to be stopped so that we the people are not saddled with debt to ensure Franco German bondholders dont lose out on their gamble on the Irish banks.

This explains it nicely
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7806291/

Forest Master

Saila wrote: »

wont someone please think of the children soverinty

Learn to spell it before you spout it.

Sonnenblumen

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Yet again Sinn Fein are the only ones to stand up to this disgrace of a government.

and also disgrace the majority of irish people.

Tis the season for balaclavas, tra alala lala...oh no:(

prinz

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Yet again Sinn Fein are the only ones to stand up to this disgrace of a government.

Nope, they are the only ones who think so little of the electorate to realise that even if this "challenge" fails stupid people will still be duped into voting for them. Populism for the win.

darragh16

Why should Gerry Adams have any say in Irish politics. He's a representative in a foreign country?

magma69

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Yet again Sinn Fein are the only ones to stand up to this disgrace of a government.

How do you work that one out?

sensibleken

prinz wrote: »

Nope, they are the only ones who think so little of the electorate to realise that even if this "challenge" fails stupid people will still be duped into voting for them. Populism for the win.

I dont like sinn fein at all. but they have a compelling chance of bringing it through. Also Labour raised the exact same issue. Wonder why there are two threads attributing it to Sinn fein alone

stovelid

sensibleken wrote: »

Wonder why there are two threads attributing it to Sinn fein alone

Partisanship?

Notorious97

darragh16 wrote: »

Why should Gerry Adams have any say in Irish politics. He's a representative in a foreign country?

Gerry Adams is Irish and can have a say in Irelands politics or wherever else he likes.

Hes resigning his seat in West Belfast to run in Louth as far as im aware, don’t be so ignorant.

He is probably more Irish than most people within the 26 counties. As i said in my post on page one, fair play to SF doing this if they follow through, and to all the purely anti republicans / anti irish this site seems to breed its time for action and not words, if a party (in this case SF) can bring about some change in this shocking deal, we should all be behind them regardless of how we feel about a party. They are Irish and they are at least attempting to help do something about the mess FF has created.

phantom_lord

Dionysus wrote: »

If the government does not have a vote in the Dáil it would seem that Sinn Féin could be on strong grounds under Article 29 Section 5 & 6 of Bunreacht na hÉireann?

5. 1° Every international agreement to which the State becomes a party shall be laid before Dáil Éireann.

2° The State shall not be bound by any international agreement involving a charge upon public funds unless the terms of the agreement shall have been approved by Dáil Éireann.

3° This section shall not apply to agreements or conventions of a technical and adminstrative character.

6. No international agreement shall be part of the domestic law of the State save as may be determined by the Oireachtas.

Here

Other than that, I'm not sure what the constitutional basis of their opposition is.

Don't think it counts as an international agreement in this context though.

Donkey Oaty

darragh16 wrote: »

Why should Gerry Adams have any say in Irish politics. He's a representative in a foreign country?

Well, who else will galvanize the pro-paedophile vote?

Millicent

Giggernaut wrote: »

Fail - in that Sinn Fein will huff and puff with great gusto but will ultimately fizzle out.

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Sinn Fein can say what they want because they know they'll never have to follow up on it.

Considering that they just successfully fought against the government's refusal to hold a by-election in Donegal, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

Donkey Oaty

Notorious97 wrote: »

He is probably more Irish than most people within the 26 counties.

Explain, so it can be ridiculed appropriately.

starbelgrade

sensibleken wrote: »

There was an article in the times today with Pat Rabbitte saying they were breaching the constitution, which seems fairly clear cut, and will consider brining a challenge once he receives clarrification from the government

Looks like it's a case of Sinn Fein getting In Before The Pat Rabbitte then.

Donkey Oaty

starbelgrade wrote: »

Looks like it's a case of Sinn Fein getting In Before The Pat Rabbitte then.

Are you saying that he's living on burrowed time?

My name is URL

Millicent wrote: »

Considering that they just successfully fought against the government's refusal to hold a by-election in Donegal, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

+1.. I'd say SF are a lot less likely to just huff & puff than the other main parties are. I don't agree with pretty much any of their policies but some of the posts in this thread just show the idiocy of people.. those who would rather allow things to stagnate and become impossible to change than they would to show agreement with someone regardless of how much sense it makes.. simply because of who they are

problemchimp

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Sinn Fein can say what they want because they know they'll never have to follow up on it.

Well they followed up on forcing a by election in Donegal, Kenny and co just shouted from the sidelines pretending they want to be in power. Like it or not the Shinners are here to stay and they have a decent % for a small party. Oh and before you start about terroists, lets not forget FF gun running or sinn fein the workers party slipping quietly into the Labour party.

Gunsfortoys

Can someone give me a RATIONAL explanation as to why they are against this?

I am no advocate of Sinn Fein but they seem to be the only party to contest anything in the political system today.

I have heard NOTHING from the other partys in relation to the bailout, just empty rhetoric and nonsense.

phantom_lord

Millicent wrote: »

Considering that they just successfully fought against the government's refusal to hold a by-election in Donegal, I wouldn't be too sure about that.

They had a basis and reasoning for that challenge.

Can't see how they have that here.

TheZohanS

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Well, who else will galvanize the pro-paedophile vote?

I think that's a bit unfair on Gerry tbh.

I'm not a shinner but fair play to Sinn Fein for at least openly saying that they would challenge the deal, maybe other political parties will take note and follow suit.

Even Dermot Ahern came out and said that the ECB had forced the government into accepting the bailout.

Donkey Oaty

problemchimp wrote: »

...and before you start about terroists, lets not forget FF gun running or sinn fein the workers party slipping quietly into the Labour party.

True. Let's not.

Millicent

phantom_lord wrote: »

They had a basis and reasoning for that challenge.

Can't see how they have that here.

As Dionysus pointed out, it could be challenged on the basis of undermining the constitution, so they possibly do have a basis. As for reasoning, I'd say the reasoning would be self-evident, no?

Pompey Magnus

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Can someone give me a RATIONAL explanation as to why they are against this?

Because there are an awful lot of Irish people who, when they hear the words "Sinn Fein are suggesting..." they don't wait to hear the end of the sentence, they have already made their minds up to oppose it.

phill106

Dionysus wrote: »

If the government does not have a vote in the Dáil it would seem that Sinn Féin could be on strong grounds under Article 29 Section 5 & 6 of Bunreacht na hÉireann?

5. 1° Every international agreement to which the State becomes a party shall be laid before Dáil Éireann.

2° The State shall not be bound by any international agreement involving a charge upon public funds unless the terms of the agreement shall have been approved by Dáil Éireann.

3° This section shall not apply to agreements or conventions of a technical and adminstrative character.

6. No international agreement shall be part of the domestic law of the State save as may be determined by the Oireachtas.

Here

Other than that, I'm not sure what the constitutional basis of their opposition is.

The government/imf/europe would have to do some fast talking to say that the bailout is not an international agreement.

Fair play to them

I hope they follow through with it and win.

Some people would rather see us get screwed over by Europe and have to pay for the wrong doings of this inept government for the next 50 years.

The same fools will probably vote FF next election.

prinz

phill106 wrote: »

The government/imf/europe would have to do some fast talking to say that the bailout is not an international agreement.

Neither the IMF nor the ECB/ European Fund are nations.

Donkey Oaty

TheZohan wrote: »

I think that's a bit unfair on Gerry tbh

Context, dear Zohan, context.

Alarmingly, it's who you keep out, not who you vote in, that decides the future in this island.

phantom_lord

Millicent wrote: »

As Dionysus pointed out, it could be challenged on the basis of undermining the constitution, so they possibly do have a basis. As for reasoning, I'd say the reasoning would be self-evident, no?

The bailout doesn't fail under the remit of that section of the constitution. I really can't see how this can be challenged on constitutional grounds.

Millicent

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Because there are an awful lot of Irish people who, when they hear the words "Sinn Fein are suggesting..." they don't wait to hear the end of the sentence, they have already made their minds up to oppose it.

Exactly. I'm in no way a Shinner but they are looking better and better these days. At least they are trying to come up with solutions and I find it amazing how many people dismiss it as showboating.

Whatever people think of Sinn Fein, they are a democratically elected party. People's instant reaction to whatever Sinn Fein says without even considering whether there is a grain of sense in it saddens me. It's the same sort of attitude that meant there wasn't much uproar when they weren't invited to the all-party budget talks. I can't imagine people standing for that sort of treatment if it was aimed at Fine Gael or Labour.

Millicent

phantom_lord wrote: »

The bailout doesn't fail under the remit of that section of the constitution. I really can't see how this can be challenged on constitutional grounds.

Depends on your interpretation, I'd wager. Be interesting to see if they have a case.

My name is URL

phantom_lord wrote: »

The bailout doesn't fail under the remit of that section of the constitution. I really can't see how this can be challenged on constitutional grounds.

That's the whole point in challenging it.. if it was clear cut either way then there would be no question. Look at all the spiel coming from Rabitte about the deal and yet he continues to sit on his hands and do nothing about it.

The 'government' that have agreed to sell us down the river are not the ones that will have to deal with the problems when we hit the rapids over the next few years. The opposition parties should have some say in this as they are the ones who will need to make it work in the long run

phantom_lord

My name is URL wrote: »

That's the whole point in challenging it.. if it was clear cut either way then there would be no question.

That's exactly what I'm saying though. It is clear cut and there is no question afaics.

It's not in breach of the articles Dionysus posted.

My name is URL

phantom_lord wrote: »

That's exactly what I'm saying though. It is clear cut and there is no question afaics.

It's not in breach of the articles Dionysus posted.

The British, Danish and Swedish loans are all bilateral agreements afaik, and made up part of the bailout plan, so maybe it could be challenged on that point?