When choosing a dog why....?

lrushe

Discodog wrote: »

Why do people get so hung up over breeds & their supposed characteristics ?. Dogs reflect their owners far more than their breed. There is this huge misconception that one breed of dog is more trustworthy, gentler, easier to train etc etc etc.

I have met hundreds of dogs & they are individuals not breeds. Whatever trait you assign to a breed there will plenty of examples that buck the perceived trend. I have just spent some time with the distraught owner of a beautiful St Bernard that has just bitten for the third time.

Why do many of us suggest a rescue ?. Maybe because we are sick to death of the fact that thousands of wonderful dogs die unnecessarily every year. If just some of the people that buy a puppy took a rescue we could save a lot of lives.

Now here is a suggestion. Breeders love dogs so how about a an agreement to reduce the number of puppies being bred & a campaign to save unwanted dogs from being killed. Lets get our killing down to the level of other comparable countries & then we can all start buying pedigree puppies with a clear conscious.

If you love dogs I cannot understand how you can buy a puppy & not save a life instead. It really is that black & white.

While I agree with most of your post, I find the last part a bit condescending and judgemental. If I didn't buy my dogs I wouldn't have a dog at all and either way no extra life would have been saved.
If rescues weren't so rigid with their policies maybe more people would consider them a source for obtaining their next dog. Instead many people are turned away feeling like the aren't good enough to own a dog. I have first hand experience of this thus I went down the route of buying my dogs.

Discodog

If I wanted to rehome a dog I would be turned down by some, predominantly the bigger, rescues. But a lot of them would be happy to let me take a dog. There are loads of rescues that are very flexible in their rehoming policy. There are also 6500 dogs that die in the Pounds - anyone can take one of them without being vetted.

If anyone gets turned down or does not like the way that they are treated they can decide to buy a puppy, try a few other rescues or go to the Pound. I actually found two of my three wandering having been dumped & I could find more very easily.

The amazing Suzi, who posts here, rescues puppies - literally hundreds of them. Every single pup that she gets has the potential to be just as wonderful a pet as any pedigree. A rescue may mean a little more work. It might require some persistence & patience in finding the right dog, but the rewards are huge. All three of my dogs arrived unexpectedly & on an instant. They are the sweetest natured bunch that you could ever wish to meet.

If everyone who has one dog considered getting a second from a rescue it would make a huge difference (two are much easier than one). If even 50% of the people who were going to buy a pup took a rescue instead it would make an even bigger difference.

If you are turned down by a rescue be annoyed with the human but don't take it out on other rescue dogs who's lives literally depend on being rehomed.

magentas

Toulouse wrote: »

Not everybody is aware that the shelters are teeming with pedigree dogs as well as crossbreeds.

There was a post a while back from someone who hadn't realised that shelters were full of puppies, they thought they only had grown dogs!

People in Ireland can be very ignorant when it comes to shelters, it's no harm to point it out the facts in case they are not aware.

I think you may be referring to me there!

although I'd call it naivity over ignorance TBH

I imagined that it would be all dogs basically, the fact that there were new born pups really saddened me because I wasn't aware that that level of neglect and cruelty was so common in ireland:(

magentas

Can I just tell a story that I think is relevant to this discussion?

I know of a guy that breeds dogs because he loves them (his words)
he breeds a specific breed once a year and has something like 7dogs himself that are honestly very well looked after.

earlier this year he bred a litter of 6pups. he could only sell 2. he sold one or two more at half the price of the first 2. he had to give the last 2 away as he couldn't get anyone to buy them. they were pedigree dogs and he could show 5generations of the dogs.

when he had difficulty selling the last 4 pups, I heard he was considering putting them down as he couldn't keep them himself. It upset me so much and I was so angry. Coming from a supposed "dog lover" he was willing to kill them if he couldn't make a few quid (I've been told "that's not the way it was" but that's the way I see it:mad:

basically, if he hadn't bred this litter, he wouldn't have put the mother through this, or the pups, he wouldn't be down money, he wouldn't be adding to the already hugely over-populated dog situation in ireland and a shelter could have potentially re-homed six more dogs

Angelmangle

lrushe wrote: »

While I agree with most of your post, I find the last part a bit condescending and judgemental. If I didn't buy my dogs I wouldn't have a dog at all and either way no extra life would have been saved.
If rescues weren't so rigid with their policies maybe more people would consider them a source for obtaining their next dog. Instead many people are turned away feeling like the aren't good enough to own a dog. I have first hand experience of this thus I went down the route of buying my dogs.

I really don't understand how this statement is condescending and judgmental. In my opinion it is a simple statement of fact. There are thousands upon thousands of dogs who are put to sleep in this country and to my mind it is immoral and unethical to pay for a dog when you can save a life instead - to me it is that black and white.

kiersm

It feel it is judgemental to say that you should always rescue a dog before buying a dog, it is up to each individual to decide which they want to do. Resuing a dog is great but there is nothing wrong with buying a puppy. I went to a rescue at least twice looking for a puppy but they never had any and i knew what kind of dog i didnt want but was just waiting to see a dog that i fell in love with to take home with me. At the time i couldn't find a listing anywhere for a pound (i found out where it was later) but i have the right to choose the dog i want & to sound very selfish i wasnt sure if i wanted to have to put in the extra effort that is required with a resue dog. So I will not be told that i was wrong to buy both of my dogs.

BengaLover

I have had a similar experience with cats..
Last 2 were rescue cats from kittens, one had to be put down and then we decided rather that get another rescue cat we would like to buy a Bengal from a breeder.
This decision was looked down upon by a few animal rescue people I am aquainted with - they had this attitude of 'oh my goodness how could you actually buy a cat instead of rehoming a poor abandoned one from the animal welfare'.
We chose a Bengal (see my sig) because of their temperament and personality, and whilst there is nothing wrong with rescue cats, WE wanted a Bengal, and i'm so glad we did, and we are currently desperate for another.
On the other hand, I have known Animal Welfare people to actually REFUSE to allow someone to adopt a cat if they get the slightest suspicion the animal would be kept outside!

Whispered

It's about peoples priorities, some people have getting a rescue as a number 1 priority. We knew we would get a rescue, breed, size etc meant nothing to us beyond not wanting a toy breed.

For others having a certain breed, age, size, temperment etc is their priority and they are entitled to make their decision based on that.

It is hard for people who prioritise differently to understand each other sometimes. It's like this in all decisions in life though really isn't it.

Discodog

kiersm wrote: »

It feel it is judgemental to say that you should always rescue a dog before buying a dog, it is up to each individual to decide which they want to do. Resuing a dog is great but there is nothing wrong with buying a puppy. I went to a rescue at least twice looking for a puppy but they never had any and i knew what kind of dog i didnt want but was just waiting to see a dog that i fell in love with to take home with me. At the time i couldn't find a listing anywhere for a pound (i found out where it was later) but i have the right to choose the dog i want & to sound very selfish i wasnt sure if i wanted to have to put in the extra effort that is required with a resue dog. So I will not be told that i was wrong to buy both of my dogs.

It is your decision. If everyone made the same decision as you then thousands more dogs would die. A rescue can involve more effort. But today's rescue is just yesterday's adorable puppy. They were all lovely puppies once.

It is all about choices & clearly the majority in Ireland chose to let thousands of perfectly good dogs die. A UK documentary featured a Vet putting down unwanted Pound dogs. As he said the killing should be done openly & not hidden away so that people can forget that it happens. Many people simply do not know that so many dogs die here.

Our neglected horses have become big news all over the World recently with stories in New York & even on Al Jezeera. Apparently a German MEP questioned why they are bailing out a country with such an appalling record on animal welfare.

Thanks to the internet Ireland's record is being exposed.

ISDW

OK, obviously I agree with rescuing dogs, but why should people who are posting on this thread be made to feel bad for buying a dog from a responsible breeder? Why should they have to let somebody else buy that puppy, wait for it to grow up and get dumped and then get it? Somebody who buys a puppy and looks after it for its whole life is not the one responsible for all of the unwanted and stray dogs in Ireland.

Why should it only be the irresponsible, uncaring people who are allowed to buy puppies?

kiersm

I completely agree with ISDW, I'm not disagreing with the idea of rescue in theory its a great idea but why should i be made to feel guilty over the fact that i decided to buy a puppy instead of rescuing. Not everyone who buys a puppy is going to an irresponsible owner but unfort they are the owners you hear bout.

Also it sounds like i'm not the only person that has had a not so great exp with rescues. The fact that they will only let you adopt a dog if you'll have someone home everyday or as the previous poster said if you're going to leave a cat outside they wouldn't let you adopt....

BengaLover

And then they charge you 30 euro for the privelege!:D

Bullseye1

Generally people who purchase pedigree dogs do not surrender them to dog pounds. Responsible breeders ask people who take puppies to have them spayed and neutered so they are also not responsible for stray dogs wondering the streets.

Therefore people who are interested in pedigree dogs are not the people you should be directing to dog pounds. The way to deal with that problem is to have people who keep dogs in general to get them spayed/neutered. And not to be getting puppies for Christmas.

Most dogs in these kennels are mongrels from people who do not keep them under control, who have no identity tag or chip and most likely no dog license.

Cherry Blossom

threeleggedhors wrote: »

just ask a vet how many dogs are destroyed each year in ireland, it's a ridiculously large number. It's logistically and ethically a more intelligent choice to rescue and abandoned dog, imop

This is a very sweeping statement. For me my rescue horse's are no. 1 priority. I looked, even advertised for a suitable dog to rehome and didn't find one suitable. Put an advert on done deal and in the local free ads, all I got from either was people ringing me trying to sell me unsuitable dogs. For me buying was logistically and ethically the more intelligent choice. Not to mention that there isn't a rescue with 60 miles of me other than the pound. I haven't seen one advert for crossbred dogs (other than so called designer breeds) in the local free ads in the 2 years I was scanning them except for one trying to sell Westie/ terrier cross puppies for €350. No price was advertised and I rang and was told she thinks the father was a Westie if thats what the white pointy teddy-bear dogs are and because of their apperance she'd be selling them for €350 and had plenty of homes from family members to give any unsold ones to :rolleyes:

boomerang

Very disheartened to see people having a pop at rescues here. Rescuers get into it for the love of the animals, go to enormous lengths to ensure they are safe and find the best homes possible. Wouldn't that be any dog's ideal, to have someone home with them most of the time, and to be allowed inside and treated as one of the family? Not everyone can provide that kind of home, but they shouldn't resent animal rescue groups for trying. They treat each dog as if it were their own, and act accordingly. What kind of home would you want for your dog, if you couldn't care for it anymore? How choosy would you be?

As for keeping cats indoors, that is absolutely the rescue's prerogative. Let me tell you, if you've nursed a stray kitten back from the brink of death with cat flu and worms and fleas or an injury from being hit by a car, the last thing your heart wants you to do is give it to someone who'll let it out to stray away, be killed on the road, chased by dogs or have things pelted at it by annoyed neighbours. You take a huge risk in letting cats outdoors. Some people just can't bear to take that risk, me included, and I always try to find indoor-only homes. Other people feel that leaving the cat out is a risk worth taking, that the cat is deprived if never let out. But if nothing else, absolutely a cat should be kept indoors for the first month in its new home and I don't think any kitten should start going outdoors until it's at least six months old and neutered.

I absolutely agree that everyone has a choice to buy or adopt. But buy from a responsible breeder or else you're contributing to the suffering of the mother dog who is churning out the pups in filthy confinement. And don't dismiss the idea of adopting a rescue on the basis that rescue dogs are problematic, or won't bond to you like a puppy, or that you won't find the breed you want in rescues.

(Steps off soap box)

EGAR

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Generally people who purchase pedigree dogs do not surrender them to dog pounds. Responsible breeders ask people who take puppies to have them spayed and neutered so they are also not responsible for stray dogs wondering the streets.

Therefore people who are interested in pedigree dogs are not the people you should be directing to dog pounds. The way to deal with that problem is to have people who keep dogs in general to get them spayed/neutered. And not to be getting puppies for Christmas.

Most dogs in these kennels are mongrels from people who do not keep them under control, who have no identity tag or chip and most likely no dog license.

Sorry but I have to disagree there, I've had plenty of pedigree dogs in rescue here from the Pound, surrendered by their owners, including rare and expensive breeds such as French Bulldogs and English Bulldogs.

boomerang

And Yorkies, Bichons, Westies, Cairns, Kerry Blues, Shih Tzus, Cavaliers, Labradors, Boxers, Golden Retrievers, Irish Setters, English Setters, Springer Spaniels, Bassetts, Beagles, German Shorthaired Pointers, German Shepherds, Great Danes, St. Bernards... All have passed through our rescue in the last twelve months.

Bullseye1

I don't see the resentment towards rescuers at all. The point of the thread is to establish why people feel the need to push people who are looking for a specific breed to a shelter. If your going to recommend a shelter why not a link to a shelter who have the breed the OP is looking for.

How would you feel if you started a thread about rescues and people started posting about approaching breeders to fill your dog needs. Just saying.

Bullseye1

EGAR wrote: »

Sorry but I have to disagree there, I've had plenty of pedigree dogs in rescue here from the Pound, surrendered by their owners, including rare and expensive breeds such as French Bulldogs and English Bulldogs.

Don't know. I'm not paying €1000 for a pup and then going to surrender it. I am positive that the majority of dogs in pounds are mongrels.

toadfly

I got my Yorkie from the pound. Was loads of pedigree dogs there at the same time, westie, beagle, cairn terrier, lab etc etc..

Not just "mongrels".

boomerang

Ah there is a bit bullseye, in the last few posts. I know there's always going to be a bit of negativity from people who've been turned down for a dog by a rescue because they didn't have the home situation the rescue were looking for. I'm just trying to show people the rescuers' perspective. They only have the dogs' best interests at heart. It bothers me when people accuse rescues of being too rigid - it's not rigidity, it's about trying to find the best possible homes. by the rescuers' definition. I hate turning people down for a dog.

boomerang

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Don't know. I'm not paying €1000 for a pup and then going to surrender it. I am positive that the majority of dogs in pounds are mongrels.

It's about half and half, Bullseye. And I agree with you, it's rare to find an expensively-bought, rare breed in a pound or shelter - what you'll generally find are the popular breeds I listed above, which unfortunately puppy farmers and have-a-go backyard breeders churn out by the bucket load and are sold relatively cheaply.

toadfly

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Don't know. I'm not paying €1000 for a pup and then going to surrender it. I am positive that the majority of dogs in pounds are mongrels.

So if you had a mixed breed dog that you paid little or nothing for it would be ok to surrender?

EGAR

Your positive then is wrong. it's more like 50/50 at present although the number of PB dogs is rising in pounds over the last two years. The most expensive dog was £3000, a French Bulldog bought from a UK breeder of a *special champion pairing*.

BengaLover

I have to say Ive seen this on the boards a few times. Someone enquires about a breed and someone always pops us and does the old, why dont you adopt an animal, there are always animals looking for a good home tactic..
Its a little annoying, so the OP does have a valid point.
On the other hand, you have to see it from the perspective of an animal rescuer worker - long hours dedicated to rescuing animals from appalling conditions and then trying to nurse them back to health and get them a good home must be at times heartbreaking.

Bullseye1

Maybe the best thing to do would be if an OP is looking for a specific breed then point the OP to a shelter that has one of those breeds.

Bullseye1

TillyGirl wrote: »

So if you had a mixed breed dog that you paid little or nothing for it would be ok to surrender?

Confused as to where you think I have ever given the impression that surrendering a dog would be okay. But I understand that sometimes it's for the best for both the dog and owner. I've owned mongrel breeds in the past and have loved them equally. But some people like myself fall in love with a breed and that's the breed I'll be sticking with.

boomerang

BengaLover wrote: »

I have to say Ive seen this on the boards a few times. Someone enquires about a breed and someone always pops us and does the old, why dont you adopt an animal, there are always animals looking for a good home tactic..
Its a little annoying, so the OP does have a valid point.

Where's the harm in that, BengaLover? I'd be the first one to suggest it, in case it was one avenue that hadn't occured to the poster. I'm not anti-breeding and I don't begrudge people that want to buy a purebred pup. That choice doesn't bother me at all. My anger's directed at the people breeding solely to make money, who abuse their bitches in the process and are creating an over-supply of poorly-bred, poorly-socialised and disease-prone pups. There just aren't enough good homes out there for them all. If dog breeding was better regulated and left to the people that do it for love rather than profit, I'd be a very happy woman.

Personally I'd rather adopt a dog, in which case I probably wouldn't know its pedigree, or what heriditary diseases were in its lines, than buy a pup that equally has no health testing done, hasn't been properly socialised, and I don't know its parents' temperament. Because that's the case for most people that buy puppies from the small ads. At least if I adopt, the puppy farmer doesn't profit a second time.

Bullseye1

I started a thread a week or two ago about Boerboels. Now someone posted about rescues and provided a link to a shelter which had one. To me this is the way to push shelters. JMO.

boomerang

Wow, there was a Boerboel in an Irish shelter? That's pretty rare. Would be lovely if you feel it's the right dog for you.