Limerick Junction-Waterford for the chop?

Drimnagh Road

kildarecommuter wrote: »

Announcment expected on closure according to IE sources in September apparently....

This was obviously going to happen sooner rather than later - not because of poor patronage - but because Irish Rail pumped €10'000s into upgrading the line last year during their controversial six week blockade, and when Irish Rail upgrade a line it generally means they are about to close it.

Which is why if the long overdue Cork mainline relay ever does go ahead I'd be worried.

See this IRN thread about the Limerick-Waterford route from September 2010 which discusses the upgrade.

Drimnagh Road

Partizan wrote: »

All that is needed for Limerick Junction - Waterford and Ballybrophy-Limerick is for proper investment and times and interconnectivity so the public can use it.

With utmost respect Partizan, these lines have had investment, the Limerick-Ballybrophy line has been relaid with decent second hand track on numerous sections, particularly down the South end, and there is still as many TSRs as I've had cups of tea this year, trains plodding along at 25 mph alongside the brand new M7.

coolperson05

To be honest, the Limerick Junct-Waterford line was the only one that could have really competed with the roads. It takes 2 hours to drive from Waterford to Limerick, or about an hour and a half to Limerick Junct.

It's approx. 70ish miles of a journey. So if a train capable of 70mph still takes 1hr 38mins to do the journey, it could never survive! Get me to limerick city in under an hour and a half, and I'll take the train!

Similarly, it takes approx 1hr45mins from Waterford-Cork driving. about 2hr30mins on a bus. So a train should be able to do Waterford-Cork even going up to Limerick junction, in 2 hours if the line was a decent speed!

dowlingm

I agree with coolperson05 - the N24 is a crapfest and IE should be lording it over BE, but instead have crippled themselves by operating the line solely as a Dublin/Cork feeder.

On these lines improvement has been matched by disimprovement:

LJ-Waterford: line speed increased from 40 to 50mph but Tipperary loop lifted and trains on the line reduced to one unit. Limerick Junction East Platform never gonna happen now because IE dawdled so even feeder opportunities are compromised.
Killonan-Ballybrophy: track laid but not tamped, then when it was tamped PSRs were slammed down on some of the line's bridges, allegedly due to post Broadmeadow inspection. Of course, if those PSRs had been imposed before the speed increases on the other trackage then the line would have gone from "faster by bus" to "faster by bicycle".

Again I think this is proof that IE don't give a crap about services outside Dublin.

Ballybrophy-Killonan Junction is surely next and I could envisage Manulla-Ballina being downgraded to freight only. And in a worst case scenario, I could see Enniscorthy-Rosslare being written off.

DWCommuter

Karsini wrote: »

Again I think this is proof that IE don't give a crap about services outside Dublin.

Ballybrophy-Killonan Junction is surely next and I could envisage Manulla-Ballina being downgraded to freight only. And in a worst case scenario, I could see Enniscorthy-Rosslare being written off.

YEP!

dowlingm

That would be IE all right - close Ballina to passengers and then declare that without the passenger revenue the freight isn't paying the bills :rolleyes: At present bustitution is usually to Claremorris but if there was ever a whisper that Manulla was to be opened as a passenger halt as opposed to a transfer point I'd be fairly suspicious about their motives.

You'd have to wonder though whether that line is really the worst performer - Westport has reopened to timber to relieve the pressure on Ballina. On a revenue basis there's probably quite a bit of cash coming in compared to lines which have only passengers to depend on. It's just a pity that a set of 2700s have to deadhead all the way from Limerick once a week to relieve the shuttle which doesn't help the expense side of the equation.

As for Enniscorthy-Rosslare: I could see a cutback to Wexford being the first step. Easy to stop people complaining about ferry connections if they are no trains! Plus there will be the revenue from the "Farewell Special".

purplepanda

There appears to be some strange goings on regarding the threatened & recently closed lines.

Seems that Perry People Movers have been in contact with IE regarding their light weight Tram Trains on threatened lines, also there has been more reports of meetings of the Save The Rail campaign with overseas rail companies regarding running services on the above lines.

So is IE trying to undermine any potential interest so it can close these lines without fuss by making out it still considers them somehow viable using PPM rolling stock. Are they trying to discourage any potential rival rail companies from gaining access to "their soon to be closed but we don't want anyone else to run trains" network. :rolleyes:

Also are these overseas companies really serious about attempting to run future services on the threatened & closed lines

Why all the secrecy & underhand dealing, are the government involved in any of these discussions, perhaps it's about time that these issues were made open & transparent?

dowlingm

I would say any discussion of PPMs is a deflection, like the Community Rail talk on the Rosslare Waterford line before.

OurLadyofKnock

purplepanda wrote: »

there has been more reports of meetings of the Save The Rail campaign with overseas rail companies regarding running services on the above lines.

Transportuser09

Didn't they claim to have been investigating PPM before? I would say its just so they can claim to have tried all options when closing it.

Judgement Day

Wow - even people on the Waterford Forum have noticed what's afoot! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73958397#post73958397 Now, any chance that somebody could get in touch with their local TDs and the media before it's too late to do anything or are they going to wait for Save The Whale? :rolleyes:

dermo88

Its been a while since I posted. I have been busy lately, and I have noticed that it is "be polite" month. So that might spoil the old sarcastic tone I had previously. It could be a lot less fun, but lets keep it serious.

Realistically the problem boils down to who pays for it. The communities along the route want a railway service, but the money is not there to pay for it.

The Community Rail partnership scheme in Britain worked well where local communities came together and saved threatened routes. They also cooperated wth the privatised companies.

Since 1945, how many lines have been closed?
How many of the communities along those routes wished to save them?
Could a private operator do a better job than CIE/IE with the correct financial structure in place?

The past is another country. CIE/IE are not the devil incarnate, but in a climate where Ireland is regressing back to normal conditions (not so rich, not so poor), it is necessary to ask is there a a better way?

My views on Unions were/are somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun, particularly with their (quite literally) corrossive effect on the development and modernisation of the railway network. There is also a crisis of confidence from past generations. They remember the stale black and orange banger train, and their experience of good transport in Ireland is limited to the DART after they buy their first car. If a bad service is provided even once, it takes 20 or more good services to overcome the mistake.

Ireland can have one or the other. If it wants Japanese style efficiency it has to pay for it, but it cannot afford it. Simply put, the population densities often do not justify it.

There is also the case of local taxation. Local taxation would be one revenue raising area for retaining these services because a rail link does add value to housing, provided that the service provision is adequate.

It is hypocritical to preach "green" while raising taxes on fuel to the right, yet raising fares on the left. Ideally a partnership system, with local participation on saving and promoting threatened routes is the ideal. However, apathy is the threat here also. One poster on another forum stated

"Its like if you see a rubbish shop, poorly stocked, expensive and has poor opening hours. After a while people will just stop going there"

This simply sums up the problem in one sentence, simply and succinctly.

dowlingm

Anyone care to spell out what operational implications these rumoured changes at Waterford will have?

http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/reply/52301/Waterford-to-Rosslare-rail-link-under-threat-of-closure#reply-52301

I've heard major rationalisation is on the cards with the third line alongside the station to go which is already in progress, the long abandoned section of the Waterford-Mallow line from Suir Bridge Junction out to the Suir Viaduct has been lifted also. The Waterford-Carrick on Suir section from Waterford West to Dunkitt is to be lifted and a set of points installed at Dunkitt with one line from there all the way to Waterford Station, the double line section from Waterford West to Waterford Central is also to be singled with a passing loop at Waterford Station to permit liner trains access to Bellview if the platform is occupied.

Judgement Day

Obviously getting ready for Waterford/Limerick Junction to be designated as an engineers siding.

Run_to_da_hills

Judgement Day wrote: »

Just another load of crap. Once you put a bus on rails you have all of the disadvantages of a road vehicle and none of the advantages of a comfortable rail vehicle. It would of course be cheaper but then again running neither bus nor train would be even cheaper. Do we live in a country or an economy?



NIR briefly tried the railbus option on the Coleraine/Portrush branch in the early 1980s (?) and despite being a 'reasonably' comfortable vehicle it was unable to handle the traffic during busy periods and this is what you are up against once you go down the road of trying to operate a railway on the cheap.

Why isn't the 2750 class not used on this line instead of being attached to multiple units on the WRC ?

dowlingm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why isn't the 2750 class not used on this line instead of being attached to multiple units on the WRC ?

Apparently IE are resistant to 2750 operating alone for reliability reasons.

Judgement Day wrote: »

Obviously getting ready for Waterford/Limerick Junction to be designated as an engineers siding.

That was my take too, since the interface essentially moves from Waterford West to Dunkitt Junction which presumably would be operated using a ground frame rather than moving the ETS staff gear there? To think I used to wonder once upon a time if Dunkitt could become an interface to a TWIN-track approach to Waterford to help with passenger and/or freight increases on the Carlow line - instead it's just a lift of the other track, if the rumour is true of course.

Losty Dublin

Singling the line to Dunkitt allows them to close Waterford West signal cabin and the relevant few € in PW costs. It also means the end of the last section of Absolute Block which should make things a wee bit easier and simpler to train and work.

Niles

There were concerns about the 2751s working single at one point, but I think that was resolved. I remember seeing a single unit in the bay platform at Ballybrophy while passing through, though that's few year ago now. They seem to prefer using them with 2700s on the WRC now for some reason.

Run_to_da_hills

dowlingm wrote: »

Apparently IE are resistant to 2750 operating alone for reliability reasons.

One carriage trains are used between Stoke on Trent and Crewe, whats the issue? Surely its no different than a single loco hauled train.

DWCommuter

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Singling the line to Dunkitt allows them to close Waterford West signal cabin and the relevant few € in PW costs. It also means the end of the last section of Absolute Block which should make things a wee bit easier and simpler to train and work.

I bet it closes in 2012.:D

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

One carriage trains are used between Stoke on Trent and Crewe, whats the issue? Surely its no different than a single loco hauled train.

Exactly. This is Dick Fearn we're talking about.