Limerick Junction-Waterford for the chop?

highlydebased

CIE wrote: »

Compare that to the nine buses (six on Sunday) that "compete" to/from the same destinations, that operate at a timetabled average speed of 31 mph

What? That cannot be right, seeing as the bus is faster than the train as it is

foggy_lad

CIE wrote: »

Kinda hard to ride from Limerick to Waterford if there are no direct trains and the three trains actually start at Limerick Junction. Compare that to the nine buses (six on Sunday) that "compete" to/from the same destinations, that operate at a timetabled average speed of 31 mph between Limerick Junction and Waterford (by comparison, the train is timetabled to run at an average speed of 34 mph, so it looks like some stories are getting crossed here; no matter, the truth will out, as Shakespeare said).

Oops its the semantics police! You obviously work for Irish Rail so should have no trouble digging out the number oF passengers travelling from Limerick Junction to Waterford and from Waterford to Limerick Junction, maybe then you will see the absolute nonsense in offering express trains that will be just as slow as the rickety service that already exists.

The bus that goes between Waterford and Limerick Junction is the 55, an expressway bus which serves several towns on the route not served by trains. This same bus serves Limerick city and does Waterford to Limerick much faster than the train(2h 25min for bus compared to 2h 46min for the train!) and connects(an alien concept to Irish Rail) to serve Galway via the x51 which is faster than the rickety railcar. This bus travels the route 8 times a day compared to 3 trains which because of their times and the hassle of walking to out of town stations and switching to bus transfers etc are practically no use to the travelling public.

bus timetable here

trains here

All this is without mention of the higher cost of travelling by rail, not just dearer tickets but the extra cost in time and also taxis to/from the out-of-town stations. get the bus it is much faster and cheaper!

corktina

you dont think logical cold facts like that will drag the old head out of the sand do you?

It is madness to have two state supported branches of the same company competing with each other!

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

you dont think logical cold facts like that will drag the old head out of the sand do you?

It is madness to have two state supported branches of the same company competing with each other!

No but a bit of Cold German efficiency might light a fire under the asses of CIE and its Subsidiaries

KC61

corktina wrote: »

you dont think logical cold facts like that will drag the old head out of the sand do you?

It is madness to have two state supported branches of the same company competing with each other!

Bus Eireann Expressway services do not receive a PSO grant so let's nip that argument in the bud. They are run as a commercial business.

Propellerhead

God, you can nearly smell the excitement on this thread over the impending destruction of national infrastructure from here...

foggy_lad

KC61 wrote: »

Bus Eireann Expressway services do not receive a PSO grant so let's nip that argument in the bud. They are run as a commercial business.

This if true only makes the situation worse for Irish rail because they are operating a massively expensive service at taxpayers expense when a properly functioning bus service is operating alongside with no wasting of taxpayers money!

corktina

(hardly expressway if they only average 31moh surely...)

Natinal Infrastructure that has been pruned until it just isnt viable to keep it and it is beyond our means to restore it to any form of meaningful level.THREE trains a day, how much does it cost to maintain this infrastructure to run them?

Transportuser09

As KC61 pointed out that bus isn't a PSO. It's far easier and cheaper for a bus to be operated commercially than a railway line with such funding, considering the bus operator only has to maintain the vehicle itself and doesn't have to worry about how much the road itself is used.

If the service was more commuter orientated three trains a day wouldn't be too bad. The Dublin-Sligo/Rosslare service was little more than this ten years ago, yet they managed to survive.

However despite this with the current financial mess closure is probably hard to prevent if it's announced. I'm actually more surprised the Nenagh route isn't next. It'll probably come down to whether or not the NTA think the closure is justified, if the bus service is better they probably will. The bus services in south Wexford were fairly poor and they still authorised the rail closure there which doesn't give a lot of hope for this line.

corktina

yes i think you are right. Buses are cheaper to operate (unfortunately,as I'd love to see a kind of Sodor operating in Ireland,,,) and the costs of the road are spread across many more users than the costs of Rail,where non-users pay a larger proportion of the cost.

Bulgy and Bertie will win out eventually Im afraid.

KC61

testicle wrote: »

Some of the trainspotters on this thread are deluded if they think this line should be kept open. Advocating Express services! You're out of your mind!

To be fair it is one poster that is advocating express services - that poster has had a whole heap of ludicrous ideas on a variety of public transport in Ireland and I suspect that they have not used it in years.

The line itself is cleared for 50mph and should be cleared for 60 mph later in 2011.

dowlingm

KC61 and I continue to disagree on the PSO. While Expressway services do not benefit directly from PSO, the PSO services added to the Expressway services give economies of scale to BE in matters of purchasing and facilities that are not available to smaller operators who only run Expressway like services. There's a reason Aer Arann chased PSOs - steady income irrespective of use to allow them to take a punt on services to UK and France.

To be clear, when I mentioned express services above, it was in the context of my continuing opposition to all-day service to Ardrahan and Craughwell and to the proposal to locate a station at Crusheen. The example is not quite apposite to Limerick-Waterford (except for the refusal to run any through service) but was more a comment on Corktina's quote at post #13 of Foggy Lad's sweeping statement at post #4.

corktina

retraction please...all i said was

"Foggy put it well.."

and quoted an earlier post.


Hardly a sweeping statement

dowlingm

corktina wrote: »

retraction please

There you go

kildarecommuter

Announcment expected on closure according to IE sources in September apparently....

Judgement Day

Wonderful - Dublin/Cork won't be far behind. :rolleyes:

Hungerford

kildarecommuter wrote: »

Announcment expected on closure according to IE sources in September apparently....

That could cause a political storm if it was axed and the Nenagh branch wasn't because a certain Alan Kelly is Minister for public transport...

Judgement Day

Hungerford wrote: »

That could cause a political storm if it was axed and the Nenagh branch wasn't because a certain Alan Kelly is Minister for public transport...

Don't worry, I have it from an impeccable source that both are to close.

corktina

almost inevitable I would have thought in this (hackneyed phrase) econmic climate.

How long before the remaining Rosslaire line is cut back? Whats at risk next? Ballina? Oh no thats a Freight HotSpot I forgot.

munchkin_utd

Judgement Day wrote: »

Don't worry, I have it from an impeccable source that both are to close.

is there ANYWHERE a list of what these lines are costing in Euros and Cent in infrastructure upkeep and operation subsidy?

Irish rail gets 100s of millions in subsidy a year but rarely is there any insight into what proportion of it is mainline + suburban services that have millions of customers and chronically underused branch lines.

Hungerford

Judgement Day wrote: »

Don't worry, I have it from an impeccable source that both are to close.

What gets me about Irish Rail is that these lines don't necessarily need to close, as demonstrated by the Portush-Coleraine line in the North.

It connects a town of 6,000 with a town of 24,000 yet generates around 5% of NIR's network traffic because of a frequent service, quick journey times and good connections with the mainline. Yet Irish Rail can't find an effective means of running services between Clonmel (pop 15,400) with two major cities, Waterford and Limerick, and two mainline connections.:eek:

That said, there are also issues for the regulatory authorities here too. Portrush-Coleraine is signalled using a block token system yet services are allowed to run at 70mph. In the South, lines with such a system would be limited to 50mph.

Partizan

This is absolute lunacy of the highest order. Shutting down railway lines when we actually need them. All that is needed for Limerick Junction - Waterford and Ballybrophy-Limerick is for proper investment and times and interconnectivity so the public can use it. Closing the Limerick Junct - Waterford line on a Sunday is the height of madness and it is a shocking indictment that IE has deliberatley allowed these lines to be run down as a prelude to closure. IE entrusted by the people in running our railways has failed dismally. It is time for accountabilty amoung the top brass and resignations should follow. Come on Leo, get the finger out. Where will the closures end. Will the shut the Sligo-Athlone line, Ballina and Rosslare to Gorey. is the Waterford - Cherrywood Junct line even safe?

P.S. I can see a huge political storm developing over this.

Judgement Day

Sadly, I can see the usual amount of hot air from useless politicians, hand wringing and buck passing - not a storm! Varadkar will say in the time honoured, buck passing tradition that the closure of lines is an operational matter for CIE/IE. The No Trains Authority will get CIE/IE to undertake to maintain the lines and that will be that.

dowlingm

It's worth noting the line did make it to April, unlike the predictions upthread :D:D

munchkin_utd

is roscrea Birdhill really for the chop too in the coming months?
Why are then then spending taxpayer borrowed money on track works?

Track Works - Birdhill/Roscrea - Saturday 13th August by Corporate Communications

Due to Track works between Birdhill and Roscrea on Saturday 13th August, the following services will be substituted by buses:

corktina

possibly they have no choice or the track might be unusable? Or just testing the schedules for the Rail Replacement Service when it does close?

Jehuty42

Or maybe the line isn't closing at all and it is just normal scheduled maintenance? Occam's razor and all.

P.s I look forward to being accused of being an IE employee just because I happen not to assume the absolute worst in them.

Judgement Day

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Or maybe the line isn't closing at all and it is just normal scheduled maintenance? Occam's razor and all.

P.s I look forward to being accused of being an IE employee just because I happen not to assume the absolute worst in them.

Who cares if you're an IE employee or not, both lines are still going to close.

coylemj

Partizan wrote: »

Will the shut the Sligo-Athlone line, Ballina and Rosslare to Gorey. is the Waterford - Cherrywood Junct line even safe?

Sligo to Athlone, Waterford to Cherrywood - what are you talking about?

If you want to go from Sligo to Athlone by rail you have to get a train from Sligo to Connolly, then a Luas to Heuston, then either a Galway or Westport/Ballina train to Athlone, there is no Sligo to Athlone line.

highlydebased

Partizan wrote: »

This is absolute lunacy of the highest order. Shutting down railway lines when we actually need them. All that is needed for Limerick Junction - Waterford and Ballybrophy-Limerick is for proper investment and times and interconnectivity so the public can use it. Closing the Limerick Junct - Waterford line on a Sunday is the height of madness and it is a shocking indictment that IE has deliberatley allowed these lines to be run down as a prelude to closure. IE entrusted by the people in running our railways has failed dismally. It is time for accountabilty amoung the top brass and resignations should follow. Come on Leo, get the finger out. Where will the closures end. Will the shut the Sligo-Athlone line, Ballina and Rosslare to Gorey. is the Waterford - Cherrywood Junct line even safe?

P.S. I can see a huge political storm developing over this.

Ballina-Gorey?

It's waterford-cherryville junction btw