what party would be in our sport best interest

meathshooter1

without getting into economics,what party would benefit our sport.we have seen FF decimate centrefire pistols and senior gardai unfairly treat myself and fellow shooters in my opinion.with a general election on the way what can our sport expect from a almost certain new goverment.I know there are more pressing issues on there minds.but our national govering bodies should not miss the oppertunity to find out what there policys are on these issues.

pejay

By the sounds of it on the news and primetime, they will all be knocking on our doors again soon so no better time to ask some questions.

Get it straight from the horses mouth.

SpringerF

You ask which party should we vote for
As far as I am concerned the greens are the party we should actively canvass people not to vote for.

And here is another reason to say NO to the greens

http://www.caireland.org/Newsflashes/Newsflash/Hunting_Bill_Introduced_by_Green_Party/

I wont go into the fact that the greens have single handly destablised the Euro by their political ignorance and nievety.

This is the shooting forum and not the political forum so I should desist from further comment.

Cass

SpringerF wrote: »

This is the shooting forum and not the political forum so I should desist from further comment.

On that note political discussion is NOT prohibited on the main shooting forum. You are free to discuss it once it relates to shooting and shooting/hunting related topics. If it devolves into a fullblown political debate on party policies, budget, IMF, etc basically any non-shooting related topics it will be moved to the political forum.

---

There will be no party that will be the safe option. Was it not Labour that opposed the stag hunting ban/bill then it passed and when asked recently Eamon Gilmore stated he would not try to reverse or lessen the Act if Labour got into Government.

No party will appease the shooters of this country by going against the overwhelming public dislike of firearms/hunting and all the aspects attached to these endeavours. They will promise the earth moon and stars, but as we all know will not hold true to their word once in power.

I would not condone not voting, its a waste, but consider your options carefully, research each party, send e-mails, talk to those canvassing. Then make your decision.

sfakiaman

No one with an interest in shooting should even consider voting FF, Green or SF, they all sold us out by voting for the CJB. Both FG and Lab voted against except (I think) John Deasy FG. I suggest everyone emails their candidates for their point of view stating 'no reply, no vote'. The working of the firearms legislation was supposed to be up for review after it had been in force for a year so a new government can justifiably be expected to to do just that. The next government will not be making major economic decisions, that will be done for us from abroad, so this time we need to push for our other legitmate interests to be protected.

cavan shooter

Good letter in the independent today
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/electionrsquos-going-to-be-a-bloody-affair-2431300.html

daveob007

as said by a previous poster,,none of them will be fully on our side but we must ask anyway.
it's a good time for the fcp to talk to the others and hopefully tidy up some of the mess created by Ahern and his cronies who banned practical shooting and banned all new centre pistols.
also the greens only want a ban on all hunting,carbon tax etc and will not favour our cause,,ward union is a prime example of their policies.

cavan shooter

The greens are gone, Fianna Fail (not a typo) is gone, work hard on Fine Gael. lets hope RISE will be RISEN for the canvassing

MarkD.

No party is good enough if a person that voted in the TD or the party will stand their ground and be counted.
If we want laws, regulations and all the likes in our favour we must all group together and fight for our cause. Having the notion "oh the TD's will do that for us", no such thing, they must be pushed by the people.

Every action by the law of physics must have an opposite and equal reaction example if the government that comes into power decides to push plan A we must all push for plan B.

Years ago 100,000 plus people lined the streets of Ireland voicing their anger against the war in Iraq, where are all these people when it comes to protesting about the economic state of the country, Id like to think when push comes to shove members of the hunting and firearms faternity will step up to the cause.

Overall, dont vote Greens for definate. But who ever you vote for you must push them to do things for you.

Its not what your country can do for you, its what you can do for your country!

knockon

I suppose its different issues for different folks but I'am not to offay with say the stag hunting group and their issues.

My issues were the pistol licensing debacle and the damage it has done to our sport. It cost me the bones of 3K in legals and stuff that made me very angry. I blame Dermot Ahearn and Fianna Fail. I have a leaflet left in my letter box by Willie O Dea and it states. "The Criminal Justice (Misc Provisions) Act 2009" "This introduced the most far reaching GUN and knife control measures since the foundation of the State".

As far as I can tell the criminals with illegal firearms are still carring their hardware and the only ones effected are members of the genuine shooting community.

So when the Fianna Fail/Green walkers come to my door they can expect me to vent my anger (diplomatically of course). But what about the stag, the hunters, the air pistol guys, the clay shooters I ask the question. What will you raise with them?

johngalway

You all know what politicians are like, some my bit of advice is don't ask them or their cronies leading questions like...

"I like my hunting, what's your stance on it?"

Instead ask more vague questions which don't give away your own interest in the subject. Then watch them squirm - or completely avoid the question.

You're in the lead position when you know what they think. They're in the lead position when you tell them what you think.

Sparks

Thing is, no matter how adamant they are that they'll fix stuff when they're on your doorstep, there is no provision in the Irish Constitution to hold them to their word even if they were capable of delivering on it (which they're not).
So basicly, I wouldn't waste your time wondering if they'll keep their election promises.
Just please, whatever you do, don't vote for a local TD because you think he/she does a good job. They don't, no matter how hard they work. They just make up numbers in the Dail for the most part, and the whip ensures they vote with party policy regardless of personal opinion.

As to what party, I don't think it matters nearly as much as ensuring that the next government is not a single-party government either literally or effectively (as FF has been for the last two turns).
Coalitions tend to listen more; single-party governments tend to just do whatever they want and shove stuff through the Dail, which is how we got railroaded twice in five years.

Besides, the IMF are in at this point. Unless we default (anyone else think that Vincent Browne was the scariest thing on telly in a decade?), it won't matter who's in government, they'll all be bound by the IMF to cut funding all over the shop, and hike prices. The four-year plan FF just walked out will already cut €50 million out of the sports budget and hike VAT by 2% by 2014 which will drive up the cost of everything we do in this sport, and if the licence fee isn't hiked as well, I'd be surprised. Plus, they're dropping 1,500 Gardai and another 2,000 in Justice so we're not going to see our efficency numbers get better.

Bananaman

I think seeking a review of the aspects of the criminal justice bill that penalize target shooters - such as the 'alleged' ban on IPSC and the ban on future licensing of Restricted pistols -thus ruining Irelands chances of hosting some prestigous sporting events and in essence discriminating against people who wish to get involved in the sport - is something we could all ask for

god knows the bill is an utter failure as a 'criminal justice' bill

if enough of them hear it - it may gain some traction

we just have to hope we don't end up with another political agenda vehicle like the FCP


B'Man

Sparks

Thing is, TDs won't deliver legislation. They don't write it, they just vote on it. Only the Minister can direct that the legislation be written as a Bill, but even he/she doesn't draft that legislation. The people who do are the civil servants in the Department of Justice (in this case). So what's needed here is (a) an excellent working relationship with the civil servants, and (b) a mandate from the Minister.

we just have to hope we don't end up with another political agenda vehicle like the FCP

How do you think we got (a) above?
The FCP is one of the best things we've gotten in shooting in the last forty years. It's just not what shouty folk want it to be (ie. it's not a body controlled by us which can veto the Oireachtas - but guess what, that's not physically possible because of that pesky Irish Constitution).
A bit of realism is needed here B'man.

meathshooter1

there will be a lot of promises being made for votes in the coming weeks and we could make the most of a bad situation 220000 licences plus families that a lot of votes ,I know from writing to TDs myself during the CJB and found in particular Charlie Flanagan FG,Pat Rabbite LAB,very helpfull and kept me well informed on what was happening in the Dail and Seanad and both where opposed to law abiding firearm holders being scapegoated.both of them where very informed on the subject as where a number of labour and FG senators.I am going to write to a number of these over the coming weeks to see what there policies will be and contact the NGOs to see if they can get some kind of official response.Personally FF/green have cost me and my sport a lot which I am still fighting through the courts.I have voted for ff in the past but since the CJB it has opened my eyes how out of touch with reality they are,payback is a bitch.I know economics will be priority of the partys but it will cost nothing to put smiles on the shooting community faces 220000 licences add holders families do the maths,I look forward hearing from Des Crofton.

rrpc

Just tell the Government parties (if and when they come to your door) that you're voting against them for what they did to the shooting and rural sports. Tell all the others the same thing.

Then there'll be no doubt in their minds as to what'll happen if they follow the same path.

freddieot

Could it get worse if I vote for anyone other that FF \ Greens ? - of course it could. Things can always get worse.

No doubt that is about the only argumment left for FF \ greens to use.

I know one thing - I know who is responsible for treating me and others like criminals, tainting us with the same brush as gangland thugs, forcing us to suffer the indignity and hassle of taking our cases to the Courts to try to find some Justice and in the process costing us and the taxpayers huge expense.

I urge all shooters to remember this when they stare down at the ballot sheet. If we give the current Royal Family another few years they will go after the rest of the shooting community and our sports and it will be even worse for all of us.

We need to audition a brand new cast for the next season even if it is still just a Muppet Show.

Rant over..

Genghiz Cohen

freddieot wrote: »

We need to audition a brand new cast for the next season even if it is still just a Muppet Show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9t_VsKsG2k

Ignore the video, listen to lyrics.

Sparks

Hm, seems Dermot Ahern has announced he's not going to run in the next election, and will be retiring from politics alltogether...

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

Hm, seems Dermot Ahern has announced he's not going to run in the next election, and will be retiring from politics alltogether...

And what's the bad news

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

And what's the bad news

That whomever is elected in will have a mandate based on economics rather than giving our shooting community everything they want without question
(And that some of our brethren may get very shouty demanding that they do so, and wind up queering the pitch before the first day's business in the Dail is over, giving us another five years of a hostile Minister in office...)

bunny shooter

I'm pissed off over how I have and am being treated and I am going to have my say when they come for votes and I don't care if they don't like it :mad:

dCorbus

They're pretty much all as bad as the other IMO

The worst government in the history of the state (i reckon) combined with the worst opposition in the history of the state - It's no wonder we're in the feckin state we're in.

Whilst the shooting sports and the candidates attitudes and the party's policies on this subject will be a consideration in my decision, there are a shed-load of other questions I'd like to ask any of the Kvnts, of any and all shade, creed, and colour, who have the temerity to call to my door and ask for my vote after the goddawful haims they've all made to this country.

Sparks

I know none of us would give them the time of day, but since even a failed political movement is funny every so often, here's Dan Boyle's most recent tweet about the latest RedC poll which shows the greens at 3% and Fianna Fail at 13%:

Marvellous things opinion polls. It seems we've closed the 37% gap between FF and the Greens at the last GE to 10% now.

As someone else put it,

It reminds me of the time when the Workers Party had one solitary TD left, due to defections to Democratic Left, and made a fine speech to the Dáil, saying that there would be "no more splits in the WP Parliamentary Party".

deerhunter1

meathshooter1 wrote: »

without getting into economics,what party would benefit our sport.we have seen FF decimate centrefire pistols and senior gardai unfairly treat myself and fellow shooters in my opinion.with a general election on the way what can our sport expect from a almost certain new goverment.I know there are more pressing issues on there minds.but our national govering bodies should not miss the oppertunity to find out what there policys are on these issues.

Firing Party :rolleyes:

rrpc

The damage was already done two elections ago, so bemoaning the state of the country now is more than seven years too late.

It was patently evident in 2002 that they had no interest in running the country properly and were just using our money to keep themselves in power.

And the same whinge about there being nothing better to replace them with was trotted out at that time too.

Of all the excuses I've heard for returning a corrupt and spineless government to power, that one takes the biscuit.

Sparks

BTW, this makes for interesting reading...

Rosahane

Sparks wrote: »

BTW, this makes for interesting reading...

Reminds me of thirty years ago or so we were all on PAYE marches. Haughey's first term in charge. I was part of a technical team of about twenty people. Our team leader at the time -Fergie -was a member of the Communist Party of Ireland and I was heavily involved in FG at the time.

At one the weekly team meetings there was the usual rants about the iniquities of a FF government. Fergie looked up and said "well about 60% of us voted for them, it wasn't me and it wasn't Rosahane so I can't see how most of you can complain"

That fairly killed the conversation

Unfortunately people don't learn from their mistakes:(

IceMaiden

What the opposition are up to ,

Parliamentary Questions and Answers
http://www.banbloodsports.com/pqs.htm

What are your politicians saying about bloodfield sports
http://www.banbloodsports.com/views.htm


What is RISE up to !
Rural Ireland Says Enough!
http://risecampaign1.wordpress.com/

Rosahane

IceMaiden wrote: »

What the opposition are up to ,

Parliamentary Questions and Answers
http://www.banbloodsports.com/pqs.htm

What are your politicians saying about bloodfield sports
http://www.banbloodsports.com/views.htm


What is RISE up to !
Rural Ireland Says Enough!
http://risecampaign1.wordpress.com/

That's very usefull. Good to know who our friends and especially our enemies are

meathshooter1

don't mean to depress you lads and ladies I'm sick to the ears of politics but time to resurrect this one since its been announced the general election has been set for march 11th haven't heard anything from any party a few PQs in the DAIL alright but no policies regarding our sport.the smell of sweet revenge Mr D Ahern is upon me:D;).not that he cares with his big fat pension and all the other rats leaving the sinking ship (rant over).the other parties will be knocking on doors very soon.time to grab the bull by the horns .

Sparks

Well, speaking for myself, I'd vote Labour. I don't necessarily agree with everything they do, but the choice is FG or Labour. And while FG said they were pro-shooting, and were polite to our reps when they went to talk to them, they didn't reign in Olivia Mitchell or John Deasy when they went off on shooters despite Enda telling us that they were going against FG policy.

Contrasting that with Labour, where the last time legislation was going through the Dail, Howlin was quite happy to stand up and argue our points and did so as effectively as was possible at the time.


Mind you, I'm pretty sure that other folk will be thinking of things other than shooting when deciding how they'll vote - things like the job they've lost, the house they're about to lose because they can't afford the mortgage repayments anymore, the tens of thousands they'll own in negative equity when they lose the house, the emigration their kids are looking at or already taking up...

This election's going to be fought on economic policies more than any other point I suspect.

Dusty87

meathshooter1 wrote: »

haven't heard anything from any party a few PQs in the DAIL alright but no policies regarding our sport.

Sinn Fein called to my house couple of weeks ago canvassing

Bananaman

I agree with Sparks that our issues will not count for much in the election due to the severity of some other problems out there

however, living in an urban centre tends to blinker people a bit and they forget that politics is local - success is national - so in your electoral area where 50 votes might swing it your opinion does count

in another area where there are 10,000 votes in the difference you matter not a whit

regardless - whoever gets elected, regardless of party, side of the dail, portfolio, etc. It will be of benefit to us all that they have heard of our problems on the hustings - one day when a matter gets raised in the Justice committee or over a few pints in the dail bar and all or many of those present have heard the same thing in different constituencies while out canvassing, they may decide it is politically expedient to have a proper look at it - on such sands have cities been built

FF may be pariahs but they will be in opposition, they will be on the justice committee and they will vote on matters before the dail so keep that in mind

Personally I dunno who I'll vote for yet but I'm gonna keep em all talking if they want it - no trick or treat here (",)

B'Man

sfakiaman

Sparks wrote: »

This election's going to be fought on economic policies more than any other point I suspect.

On this point I disagree with Sparks (though I agree with his other points). The Dail has no control over monetary policy and only limited control of fiscal policy, to a large extent they will have to do what our creditors (IMF, EU etc) tell them. In my opinion this is an ideal time to press social issues on the candidates, and I mean now not on the doorstep. Print off copies of Dail speeches from the various party spokesmen and write to your candidates. Both FG and Labour voted against the FF/Green bill so let them know you expect them to review the workings of the firearms laws. The legislation as it stands is a nonsence, it puts unnecessary work on the Guards, restricts commerce and alienates a proven law abiding sector of the voting public while doing nothing to reduce crime. Now may just be the best time to push our point of view.

rowa

Dusty87 wrote: »

Sinn Fein called to my house couple of weeks ago canvassing

sinn fein have been very anti-gun and anti-shooting sports in the north , ironically :rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

Oh ! what a nice late birthday present for me ! A general election!!:D
One lot I am well disappointed in is on our side is R.I.S.E.

If they had played that right ,they could have been somthing akin to the UK Countryside Alliance,got just about everyone in the country that was affected by the depouplation of rural Ireland,closed post offices,garda stations,axed train and bus routes,etc,etc
Seems it was just a dual issue affair,stag hunting and dog breeding.:(
I'd like to be proven wrong on this one.But they have gone too quiet in the last 10 months.

johngalway

I already know which party I'll be voting for, just need to select candidates for preferences. Must email them on a few points tomorrow. For reasons beyond shooting I won't be voting, FF, Labour, SF, Green, or Independent.

dCorbus

N.O.T.A.:mad: