TV Licence Thread Megamerge

source

PCPhoto wrote: »

source wrote: »

No, once you have a device capable of receiving a tv signal, you need a licence.

Do I need a TV licence for my mobile phone ????

Have watched live TV on it using different apps - so technically it has the capability of receiving a signal ?

Also - just a note, I have been told that the TV licence is being phased out - source is someone who works in RTE.

No because those apps are not receiving a tv signal, ie the phone doesn't have a tuner built in. Those apps are downloading content that is being shared by the broadcaster over the Internet. Completely different to receiving a tv signal, but with the same end result.

sandra06

anyone know what to do if they been in same situtation ,i got a court app in janaury for no tv licence ,i know i should have bought one but the money just wast there ,any idea what to do ,do i get a lawyer to appear for me ,if i backdate the licence will the court app go away ,anyone ever been in same situation ,i never even got a parking fine

hada

How did you manage to get summons? Did the inspector call round to the house and verify that you have a TV?

Regardless, I would contact a solicitor.

Delancey

Sorry to hear of your problem OP - I reckon having a TV licence when you go to court can only be of benefit to you.
How can you afford a Solicitor if you couldn't afford a licence for your TV ?

FreudianSlippers

What is the monthly cost of the TV licence? Under 15euro I presume since it's 160 annually.

Our man in Havana

€13.33 per month by direct debit.

sandra06

dats_right wrote: »

I am a trainee solicitor and I get enquiries about this the whole time. Somepeople panic themselves silly over this, I blame those ridiculous tv licence adds on tv and radio. Trust me this really isn't a big deal at all. And I can assure you, from my personal experience, that the best thing to do is to telephone the relevant TV Licencing section of An Post and tell them that the licence is now up to date. They can verify this and then in all likelihood will say "thank you very much, there is no need to turn up in court we will get the matter struck out" (infact I have had about 6 enquiries in the last few months and all were successfully resolved this way).

If you foolishly choose not to do this, then you should turn up to court and usually the judge will ask those who have paid their licence fee to identify themselves thank them for showing up and strike-out the proceedings against them. Usually only those who have not purchased a licence or not bothered to show up will be fined. Indeed the worst thing you could do would be not to turn up.

Don't even consider getting a solicitor involved it would be a total waste of money. And while Jo King makes some very valid points in regard to district court appearances for slightly more serious issues, to be fair I don't think much of what JK says applies to TV Licence offences.

thank u

CptSternn

So here is a question I don't think anyone has brought up here yet...

Whats the deal with TV licenses and Netflix? Netflix just setup shop this week in Ireland. For €6.99 you can legally stream a whole library of films and TV shows to your computer, phone, tablet, and yes even your own HDTV (if your TV isn't already internet enabled you can buy a USB dongle to make it so for about €50).

If I get rid of Sky and don't have a Saorview box, can they say anything if I don't renew my TV license? I am not availing of Sky or Saorview, I have no antenna connected to my TV. I am not getting RTE or any of those channels, I haven't watched them in years and if I really wanted to see them you can watch them online via their own websites for free these days.

So do I need a license?

In America Netflix is MASSIVE. They have accounted for a huge drop of like 25% in people who subscribe to TV services there (cable and satellite). Over 30% of all bandwidth used in America today is used by people watching Netflix. Of the people who have switched, most are young, college age students. The people who still subscribe to TV services are the same ones n the age group of people who are less likely to have a Facebook account.

If we move to the same system here and people in droves stop using Sky, Chorus, UPC, and Saorview will the government crack down on streaming media? Are there any laws in place already? Due to the nature of the service, if they did pass legislation how could they ever really enforce it?

As we speak Facebook is currently lit up with dozens of mates of mine, mostly college students who have hooked Netflix up to their Xbox or Playstation and are watching movies as we speak.


Just wondering if we are witnessing a revolution here that the mainstream has yet to even realise and what the current legal issues surrounding this might be.

Paulw

If you have a TV, you must have a TV license. :rolleyes:

If you have a PC and monitor (no TV at all), then you don't need a TV license.

Simple really.

juan.kerr

CptSternn wrote: »

So here is a question I don't think anyone has brought up here yet...

Funny guy

frag420

How would one define a television? How is it different from a monitor?

I would presume it would have something to do with the ability to recieve signals IE it has an antena.

So if this is true would there be an issue with someone buying a television as we know them now and disabeling the antena for the sole purpose of not recieving a signal and then using another device IE Xbox, Apple TV to stream Netflix and/or similar services?

frAg

Basq

Paulw wrote: »

If you have a PC and monitor (no TV at all), then you don't need a TV license.

Simple really.

Not that simple..

.. if your PC is capable of recieving a broadcast signal (i.e TV Tuner), then you need a TV license.

Paulw

A TV is a device that is capable of receiving a broadcast signal.

A monitor has no ability to receive a broadcast signal, and no tuner.

I believe there is a definition in the Communications Act - http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Broadcasting+Legislation/

Basq

Paulw wrote: »

A TV is a device that is capable of receiving a broadcast signal.

A monitor has no ability to receive a broadcast signal, and no tuner.

I believe there is a definition in the Communications Act - http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Broadcasting+Legislation/

So if you have a PC with an inbuilt TV tuner or a Saorview reciever, you don't need a TV license? That doesn't sound right to me!

CptSternn

My HDTV is three years old. Guess what? No HDTV's made prior to a few months ago can pick up the new Saorview signal. Even FTA Tv's can't process it due to the MPEG version on the firmware. Therefore my TV does not pick up any channels, with or without an antenna. I have to have a Saorview or Sky box else it's a black screen.

Do I still need a license? For all intents and purposes my TV is a monitor. It's built in decoder is now obsolete and no longer can decode the signal which is being used therefore it is not able to pick up or display a signal no more than one of the old rear projection old TVs that are by no means digital ready can these days.

Paulw

CptSternn wrote: »

My HDTV is three years old. Guess what? No HDTV's made prior to a few months ago can pick up the new Saorview signal. Even FTA Tv's can't process it due to the MPEG version on the firmware. Therefore my TV does not pick up any channels, with or without an antenna. I have to have a Saorview or Sky box else it's a black screen.

Do I still need a license?

Yes, according to the law you do still need a TV license.

CptSternn

I would fight that to the High Court. I can plug a sky box into my computer monitor - all new computer monitors come with a HDMI port, and therefore are equally as able to receive a TV signal as an older TV.

Both are unable by design to receive a signal, but with the adaptation of a third party piece of hardware can receive the signal. Without the third party hardware neither will be able to receive a signal.

If they are going to say I need a license for that, they must equally agree all persons in Ireland with a computer, be it a laptop or desktop, also need to pay the licensing fee, else they are specifically singling myself and others out without just cause.

o1s1n

Paulw wrote: »

Yes, according to the law you do still need a TV license.

What about when the analog tv signal is switched off though?

I would be in the same position. I can pick up the bog standard RTE stations on my tv at the moment with a coathanger arial.

However when that service is switched off (to happen this year I think?) then my tv and any non Saorview compatable tv will no longer be able to receive the broadcast signal.

CptSternn

I just did a quick check of the Wikipedia and found this...

In 2009, a ministerial order under the 2009 Act explicitly exempted two classes of device from the requirement to have a licence; namely, portable devices with small screens such as 3G phones or PDAs, and devices accessing streaming video services via the internet.[41] However, computers with TV tuner cards are not exempt.[41]

That put me on to this document here:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0319.html

In which EAMON RYAN, former Minister for Communications back in 2009 made this change to the law:

1. This Order may be cited as the Television Licence (Exemption of Classes of Television Set) Order 2009.


2. In this Order—


“non-portable” in relation to a television set, does not include any television set capable of simultaneously or near-simultaneously exhibiting television broadcasting services transmitted, relayed or distributed by means of any of the following networks, namely–


(a) analogue terrestrial television networks,
(b) cable television networks,
(c) digital terrestrial television networks,
(d) internet protocol television networks,
(e) multipoint microwave distribution system television networks (analogue or digital), and
(f) satellite television networks;


“portable” in relation to a television set, means that the television set is designed to be easily carried manually by a person and the set and, if it is used in conjunction with another apparatus, that apparatus, is capable of displaying an image of not more than 160 square centimetres.


3. The following classes of television set are declared to be classes of television set to which section 142 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 (No. 18 of 2009) does not apply, namely—


(a) a non-portable television set capable of exhibiting television broadcasting services distributed by means of the publicly available Internet, and


(b) a portable television set.

So, a 'portable' device does not need a license, but a device that is 'non-portable' as outlined in the list above does need a license EXCEPT as it says in the second part of the law, and I quote from the law a non-portable television set capable of exhibiting television broadcasting services distributed by means of the publicly available Internet

That seems to say pretty clearly that even if you are streaming via the Internet you are exempt.

Does it not?

Paulw

o1s1n wrote: »

What about when the analog tv signal is switched off though?

The law doesn't specify that the device has to be able to receive analogue nor digital.

It's not like I'm making the law, just reading what is there. Try reading it and making your own conclusions.

As for taking it to the High Court, I hope you have enough funds to even take that case.

CptSternn

Paulw wrote: »

The law doesn't specify that the device has to be able to receive analogue nor digital.

It's not like I'm making the law, just reading what is there. Try reading it and making your own conclusions.

As for taking it to the High Court, I hope you have enough funds to even take that case.

Yeah the whole thing is a bit murky as it appears once again our government has no clue and is just making decisions based on blurbs they read somewhere instead of actually talking to informed people.

chipchop

Im gonna go ahead and assume that our laws on this reflect that of the UK which can general be said for Ireland. In which case I went to uni in the UK and we received notices in the post informing us that if we are streaming video (tv/movies) that this is regarded as television and requires a tv license which is monitored by the BBC.

Weather or not its strictly monitored at all and these are just scare tactics is anyones guess so its up to yourself weather you want to give it a shot or not! then again theres always a chance that this hasn't been introduced in Ireland, but if the government began to loose money on TV licenses due to it you can be sure they will defiantly introduce it! but from a previous comment it appears they already have!

BrianD

CptSternn wrote: »

I would fight that to the High Court. I can plug a sky box into my computer monitor - all new computer monitors come with a HDMI port, and therefore are equally as able to receive a TV signal as an older TV. .

When you plug your Sky Box or UPC into your monitor and/or your obsolete HDTV you have a TV set and require a licence.

there are hundreds of thousands of people watching TV through UPC or SKy that are not using the tuner in their TV.

kbell

Give them time, we'll soon need a licence for any type of media we own.

CptSternn

chipchop wrote: »

Im gonna go ahead and assume that our laws on this reflect that of the UK which can general be said for Ireland. In which case I went to uni in the UK and we received notices in the post informing us that if we are streaming video (tv/movies) that this is regarded as television and requires a tv license which is monitored by the BBC.

Weather or not its strictly monitored at all and these are just scare tactics is anyones guess so its up to yourself weather you want to give it a shot or not! then again theres always a chance that this hasn't been introduced in Ireland, but if the government began to loose money on TV licenses due to it you can be sure they will defiantly introduce it!

Therein lies the real question. If I watch a video on YouTube I am streaming video. Are they going to go after everyone with a computer? How will they even begin to enforce that? Monitor every person in Ireland to see if they stream a video? Companies have already been told they can't monitor for bittorrents because of the Data Protection Act. Our government was just told last week they couldnt use ESB records to find out who owns what home also due to the Data Protection Act. I find it hard to believe they would allow the open monitoring of all data going into every home in Ireland just so they can use that information to chase down people watching YouTube videos.

Aside from the legal aspect, the amount of resources it would take would be far beyond what our government has. They would in all senses of the word be setting up a system to the Great Firewall Of China - they would have to monitor everything, all the time. They would have to have themselves the hardware and bandwidth to even attempt this, meaning a HUGE investment in the current infrastructure, not to mention a few billion, and thats being frugal, in new hardware setup throughout the country to even accomplish this.

Eircom themselves have said their systems and network cannot even handle monitoring for bittorrent as just trying to do that would bring their entire operation to a halt. The government would have to setup a network infrastructure that is bigger and more powerful than the one currently used across the country. Thats just not going to happen.

They can't even go after Netflix for their user list, as again, besides the legal issues you can stream to your phone, tablet, anywhere so they wouldn't be able to even tell who is streaming to a TV and who is streaming to a phone.

It will be interesting to see where this goes sure.

o1s1n

Paulw wrote: »

The law doesn't specify that the device has to be able to receive analogue nor digital.

It's not like I'm making the law, just reading what is there. Try reading it and making your own conclusions.

As for taking it to the High Court, I hope you have enough funds to even take that case.

The law states that the device needs to be able to receive the signal, yes?

Televisions can receive an analog broadcast. It's one of their inbuilt functions.

It's why the oul 'but I don't have digital tv etc!' arguement doesn't work as even the oldest television can receive analog.

Computer monitors/LCD panels don't require a license as they cannot receive such a signal.

Therefore if analog is turned off, your television unit itself can no longer receive the state broadcast signal without the help of some other device. In effect, becoming as capable signal wise as a computer monitor.

Paulw

o1s1n wrote: »

The law states that the device needs to be able to receive the signal, yes?

Therefore if analog is turned off, your television unit itself can no longer receive the state broadcast signal without the help of some other device. In effect, becoming as capable signal wise as a computer monitor.

Yes. But, the law doesn't say that the TV stations have to broadcast a signal that your TV can receive.

I'm just reading what the law says. If you can receive a signal (which it could, if a signal was broadcast), then you need a TV license.

chipchop

CptSternn wrote: »

It will be interesting to see where this goes sure.

Yeah no i agree its a bit of a nightmare black hole to be honest which seriously need clearing up, and Im sure there will be clarification eventually, but the notices we received in the post in the UK (they were specifically targeting students) appeared to indicate the streaming of television broadcasters services such as BBC iPlayer, so i'd imagine in ireland the monitoring relating to streaming and tv license's would be referring to RTE player and SkyGo but that then leaves a cloud hanging over net flicks, altho given that its all legally operated id imagine it will fall under the same laws as RTE player etc.

BrianD

o1s1n wrote: »

The law states that the device needs to be able to receive the signal, yes?

Televisions can receive an analog broadcast. It's one of their inbuilt functions.

It's why the oul 'but I don't have digital tv etc!' arguement doesn't work as even the oldest television can receive analog.

Computer monitors/LCD panels don't require a license as they cannot receive such a signal.

Therefore if analog is turned off, your television unit itself can no longer receive the state broadcast signal without the help of some other device. In effect, becoming as capable signal wise as a computer monitor.

But you would require a licence if your computer monitor was hooked up toa Sky or UPC box. Also the TV signal is not confined to just RTE reception, if it can receive any TV signal even if isn't RTE.

Definition of a TV set:

"“ television set ” means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus;"

However, it's quite obvious that technology is outpacing the law. I wouldn't view Netflix as a television broadcast no more than watching a DVD is.

I would hazard a guess that when analogue is switched off that it's unlikely that they would chase after somebody who was using an obsolete TV for, say, gaming provided that it's not connected to anything capable of receiving a broadcast signal - Sky, UPC, saorview box etc.

BostonB

chipchop wrote: »

Im gonna go ahead and assume that our laws on this reflect that of the UK which can general be said for Ireland. In which case I went to uni in the UK and we received notices in the post informing us that if we are streaming video (tv/movies) that this is regarded as television and requires a tv license which is monitored by the BBC....

That would then include any form of a computer, PDA, tablet or even smart phone, Console etc. Which doesn't make a whole heap of sense.

I would take the law as any equipment that can recieve broadcast TV signal, be that satellite, cable or analog TV. But not anything that is streamed from the internet. So if you have a STB or a TV with a tuner only.

I expect the uni has an issue with streaming material over its network rather than TV broadcasts. Some twit of a paper pusher game up with the TV licence idea. That doesn't mean its legally correct.