Too much of Gaeilge?

WooPeeA

Right, I know it's Irish and we should protect it etc. but I think that putting life-saving signs written only in Irish without any English translation (such as "Don't cross this line" at railway stations) is a bit too much.

So now if someone dies it's gonna be his fault as 'has been warned' or what?

I know it's a national language but we all know the reality.

PeterIanStaker

Yes indeed I agree, everyone who speaks it should be shot and their homes burned.






not

Wolfe Tone

In fairness what else could it say?

ottostreet

I think a useless language like Irish should be just left to die, instead of keeping it on life support.

More useful European or global languages would be better off taught here.

Dudess

WooPeeA wrote: »

So now if someone dies it's gonna be his fault as 'has been warned' or what?

No, it's his fault for being stupid enough to cross the line. Agreed though, signs only in Irish is a bit delusional.

Sardonicat

I don't see the point if those signs in Irish. I fail to see how they contribute to the survival of the language.

Enkidu

Sardonicat wrote: »

I don't see the point if those signs in Irish. I fail to see how they contribute to the survival of the language.

Natural Selection :pac:

Krusader

ottostreet wrote: »

More useful European or global languages would be better off taught here.

They are taught here

Feeona

WooPeeA wrote: »

I know it's a national language but we all know the reality.

Do people who don't speak Irish not realise the reality of getting hit by a train?

WooPeeA

WooPeeA wrote: »

Right, I know it's Irish and we should protect it etc. but I think that putting life-saving signs written only in Irish without any English translation (such as "Don't cross this line" at railway stations) is a bit too much.

So now if someone dies it's gonna be his fault as 'has been warned' or what?

I know it's a national language but we all know the reality.

Chances are, there are about 20 or so similar English only signs warning the same thing elsewhere, sometimes it's simply impossible to make all signs bi-lingual!

ottostreet

Crosáidí wrote: »

They are taught here

taught better. I did German & Irish in secondary school, and I've learned more cantonese from my girlfriend over a couple of hours than I did in 6 years in school.

Enkidu

Enkidu wrote: »

Natural Selection :pac:

+1

& common sense!

Krusader

ottostreet wrote: »

taught better. I did German & Irish in secondary school, and I've learned more cantonese from my girlfriend over a couple of hours than I did in 6 years in school.

'cause it serves your interests to do so

johngalway

I've been to Hungary a few times. All the friggin signs are in Hungarian. The cheek of them bloody central Europeans :rolleyes:

Dudess

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

In fairness what else could it say?

johngalway wrote: »

I've been to Hungary a few times. All the friggin signs are in Hungarian. The cheek of them bloody central Europeans :rolleyes:

You're being disingenuous. I'm all for keeping Irish alive, but it's not our first language.

ottostreet

Crosáidí wrote: »

'cause it serves your interests to do so

Whose interests does Irish serve anymore?

who what when

ottostreet wrote: »

taught better. I did German & Irish in secondary school, and I've learned more cantonese from my girlfriend over a couple of hours than I did in 6 years in school.

You could be on to something there. If our schools rewarded students with sex rather than grades we'd be be the most multilingual country in the world! Or at least the boys would be anyway!

ottostreet

ottostreet wrote: »

Whose interests does Irish serve anymore?

If it wasn't for the language shift in the 19th century we'd all be speaking Irish now! If you were brought up speaking Irish you'd be complaining about having to speak English!

Krusader

ottostreet wrote: »

Whose interests does Irish serve anymore?

200,000 speakers or so and rising

Dravokivich

Feeona wrote: »

Do people who don't speak Irish not realise the reality of getting hit by a train?

Well i saw some Poles hopping across the barriers on a railway crossing the otherday. Perhaps if they understood what the Irish for "Red lights means stop" they would not have taken such foolish actions.

Enkidu

who what when wrote: »

You could be on to something there. If our schools rewarded students with sex rather than grades we'd be be the most multilingual country in the world! Or at least the boys would be anyway!

Cunnilingual even!

twinQuins

johngalway wrote: »

I've been to Hungary a few times. All the friggin signs are in Hungarian. The cheek of them bloody central Europeans :rolleyes:

Don't the majority (at least) of Hungarians actually speak Hungarian? Maybe you should think these things through, first.

ottostreet

who what when wrote: »

You could be on to something there. If our schools rewarded students with sex rather than grades we'd be be the most multilingual country in the world! Or at least the boys would be anyway!

Now that's just silly.

I'll give German the benefit of the doubt in a school environment, simply because I enjoyed the language, the class was decent, and our teacher was clued in on how to make a language interesting. I was average at German.

However, Irish...Irish was just...pointless. I've never been one to hang onto stuff for sentimental value, and maybe that's what makes me view Irish with such negativity. I just don't see any real advantages to learning and using Irish, or why we do so, apart from good old rose-tinted glasses.

Krusader

who what when wrote: »

You could be on to something there. If our schools rewarded students with sex rather than grades we'd be be the most multilingual country in the world! Or at least the boys would be anyway!

To be honest all the fit girls speak Irish, just look at TG4 weather girls. It's an incentive for lads.
Gaeilge is sexy

who what when

ottostreet wrote: »

Now that's just silly.
QUOTE]

Ask your average class of 17 year old boys how silly it is!

johngalway

Dudess wrote: »

You're being disingenuous. I'm all for keeping Irish alive, but it's not our first language.

Morkarleth wrote: »

Don't the majority (at least) of Hungarians actually speak Hungarian? Maybe you should think these things through, first.

Two bites, not bad.

Euro_Kraut

Learning Irish doesn't stop people form learning other languages. In fact being exposed to other languages at an early age increase your ability to learn other languages later in life.

Gaelscoil students should have a particular advantage learning other European languages later in life having under gone immersion learning. Here in Switzerland huge money is being spent in promoting immersion learning. We are fortunate in Ireland that the infrastructure already exists. In anything we need to exploit it more.

InTheTrees

WooPeeA wrote: »

Right, I know it's Irish and we should protect it etc. but I think that putting life-saving signs written only in Irish without any English translation (such as "Don't cross this line" at railway stations) is a bit too much.

If we cant mess with the english will life ever be fun anymore?

InTheTrees

Crosáidí wrote: »

Gaeilge is sexy

Plainly someone who's never been in Swedish class.

:eek:

Stained Class

ottostreet wrote: »

Whose interests does Irish serve anymore?

Those people who translate all state documentation into Irish & some bods in TG4...

I'll think of more profitable & essential services later.:rolleyes:

Stained Class

Stained Class wrote: »

I'll think of more profitable & essential services later.:rolleyes:

Ah yes, companies that produce paper!:D

Mike 1972

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Learning Irish doesn't stop people form learning other languages. In fact being exposed to other languages at an early age increase your ability to learn other languages later in life. .

If one doesnt get hit by a train in the meantime

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Gaelscoil students should have a particular advantage learning other European languages later in life having under gone immersion learning. Here in Switzerland huge money is being spent in promoting immersion learning. We are fortunate in Ireland that the infrastructure already exists. In anything we need to exploit it more.

Im sorry this is total bull$h1t (didnt they used to make the same argument for Latin)

"learning Irish early in life might make it easier for one to speak German later in life"

Id imagine learning German early in life would work far better.

Novella

"Life-saving signs" are usually pretty stupid, like "Don't walk to the edge of this cliff 'cause there is a danger you'll slip and fall". If you need a bloody sign to tell you what could kill you or what's dangerous, maybe you shouldn't be allowed out of a padded room.

Mike 1972

Remember seeing (monolingual) "Paisti ag Imirt"* signs on a road in Dundalk.

Distance from Dundalk to nearest international land border < 10Km
Distance from Dundalk to nearest Gaeltacht area of any significance > 100 Km

* apparently it means "children at play"

enda1

ottostreet wrote: »

taught better. I did German & Irish in secondary school, and I've learned more cantonese from my girlfriend over a couple of hours than I did in 6 years in school.

So you're saying we should ride our teachers then...

I see no problem with this plan and wholeheartedly endorse it!

Donkey Oaty

enda1 wrote: »

So you're saying we should ride our teachers then...

I see no problem with this plan and wholeheartedly endorse it!

I'm less keen on the idea as most of my Irish teachers were aul fellas with beards.

Corsendonk

What if the IMF says we can't afford two languages?

ejmaztec

Corsendonk wrote: »

What if the IMF says we can't afford two languages?

Probably use an Anglo-Saxon expletive and tell them to fuck off.

mcmoustache

I've said it in another similar thread and I'll say it again here:

I'm from the west of Ireland (about 40km west of Galway) and I speak Irish with family and friends on a daily basis. It's the language I grew up with and it shaped how I see the world. I also promote and encourage its use.

I get annoyed when I hear those jibes about it being on life-support. First of all it's incorrect and you could only believe that it was on its last legs if you weren't getting out enough. Sure, you'll never hear it spoken if you're from some farm in the back-arse of Offally or from some shtty housing estate in Finglas, but out west, it's still the language of commerse and society. Not only that, those from the galltacht(the English area outside the gaeltacht) who can afford it are sending their kids in increasing numbers to Irish-speaking schools. Whether or not this is due to the parents wanting their children to have Irish as a language or due to a desire to avoid having little Fiachra share a class with Pawel and Muhamed is irrelevant. The number of Irish speackers is growing.


All that said, I don't think that so much should be spent translating documents that nobody can read. I've done translation work before and I know that less than 5% of all Irish speakers would understand your average Irish-language legal document. English ones are hard enough. Whenever I see any signs in Irish at bus or train stations, the translations are usually misspelt and I know that it's the English one that I'll read. I think it's an awful waste of money and should be stopped. I still think that place name signs should be in Irish because the place names make no sense in English.

In all, I do agree that there is a lot of waste going on with regards to translation services but it's certainly not a dead language. One would need to be ignorant, retarded, provincial, deaf, deluded or some combination of the five to think so.

mcmoustache

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Remember seeing (monolingual) "Paisti ag Imirt"* signs on a road in Dundalk.

Distance from Dundalk to nearest international land border < 10Km
Distance from Dundalk to nearest Gaeltacht area of any significance > 100 Km

* apparently it means "children at play"

Signs like this are stupid. It makes no sense to put them up there in Irish.

mcmoustache

Corsendonk wrote: »

What if the IMF says we can't afford two languages?

It's free to speak it. In fact, they even give you money for speaking it. Actually that could solve our economic problems.;)

jimmycrackcorm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Well i saw some Poles hopping across the barriers on a railway crossing the otherday. Perhaps if they understood what the Irish for "Red lights means stop" they would not have taken such foolish actions.

Apparently the swans on the other side can't understand the signs either.

dory

Anyone seeing a correlation here between those too intellectually challenged to learn Irish and those who need a sign to tell them not to walk onto the path of a speeding train??

*ducks*

InTheTrees

Corsendonk wrote: »

What if the IMF says we can't afford two languages?

My first chuckle of the day.

PeterIanStaker

dory wrote: »

Anyone seeing a correlation here between those too intellectually challenged to learn Irish and those who need a sign to tell them not to walk onto the path of a speeding train??

Hopefully that means that the likes of Myers will walk into the path of said train. :cool:

MagicMarker

Dudess wrote: »

You're being disingenuous. I'm all for keeping Irish alive, but it's not our first language.

Our constitution says otherwise. And like the bible, the constitution never lies!

Wibbs

Crosáidí wrote: »

200,000 speakers or so and rising

I love how this stat keeps rising and rising but with little actual proof of the reality. Just because I can order a beer in French does not a French speaker make me. Ditto for the majority of so called Irish speakers. Even the most pro Irish stats show anywhere from 20,000 to 40,000 actually speak it fluently.

A good post on the matter from this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055958148

Enkidu wrote: »

Fair enough, but it still isn't great. Eight hundred sat through Irish, but only around three hundred and eighty four (roughly) had any benefit confered on them. If the students were equal confortable with both languages then they should have gotten the five extra bonus point. Now possibly the situation is better than this, because of uniform reduction of marks, but:

Total number of students who, at Leaving Cert Level, have studied Irish for thirteen years: 45,984
Numbers with good enough Irish to do papers in Irish: 384

Ratio: 120:1

That is roughly the success rate of the educational system.

Also consider that the 10% bonus is for: History, Geography, Physics, Chemistry, Physics and Chemistry, Biology, Science and Business. Only forty people were capable of doing these through Irish well enough.

400 out of 46,000 and only 40 for the more "intellectual" subjects.
Read them stats and tell me anything close to 200,000 can speak, read and write Irish fluently to anything like the definition of that term. Its not because Irish speakers are intellectually slow, so the main reason seems to be a helluva lot less people actually speak it, beyond a childs level.

Krusader

Wibbs wrote: »

I love how this stat keeps rising and rising but with little actual proof of the reality. Just because I can order a beer in French does not a French speaker make me. Ditto for the majority of so called Irish speakers. Even the most pro Irish stats show anywhere from 20,000 to 40,000 actually speak it fluently.

A good post on the matter from this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055958148

400 out of 46,000 and only 40 for the more "intellectual" subjects.
Read them stats and tell me anything close to 200,000 can speak, read and write Irish fluently to anything like the definition of that term. Its not because Irish speakers are intellectually slow, so the main reason seems to be a helluva lot less people actually speak it, beyond a childs level.

obviously the LC is a major exam for alot of kids, now kids in meánscoileanna get the subjects through Irish, on the day some might feel a bit more comfortable doing them in English, but wouldn't they have to be able to understand their Irish instruction in the subject all through 5th & 6th year to get any kind of decent mark in the LC doing it through English, or have you just glossed over that fact

WooPeeA

Crosáidí wrote: »

200,000 speakers or so and rising

"Raisin" you mean..?

DJP

Wibbs wrote: »

Even the most pro Irish stats show anywhere from 20,000 to 40,000 actually speak it fluently.

I seem to remember having this debate with you before. According to the census, I believe it is, and as was mentioned in the Dáil yesterday are supposed to be 76,000 fluent Irish speakers outside of the education system.

Irish is doing well with the growing Irish language media and gaelscoileanna but is falling down in the Gaeltacht with young people there speaking it and in the business sector.

So we need a bit of an IMF job done on the Irish language. Hopefully the 20 Year Strategy will do it. Crucially we need more second-level gaelscoileanna or gaelcholaistí (there are campaigns for eight more including two in Dublin) and the new family support centres and new cultural centres need to be built asap. And state signage needs to be dealt with including road signage- I mean in relation to new signage. And we need another Gaeilge subject for the L Cert as the new syllabus is dubbed down to much and way too easy (even insultingly so I believe) for fluent/native/people with very good Irish speakers. And the new National Training Centre should be let be developed in Baile Bhuirne in Cork. If these things happen soon I will be confident. The patient "the Irish language" is a psychotic patient in the Gaeltacht (in terms of young people) and the patient needs to be taken care of. Every month that goes by without care it becomes even harder to treat the patient satisfactorily.

I do wonder why some people do not consider the-exciting- possibility that Irish may grow radically over the next 20 years with this new strategy if it is taken seriously from the beginning.

Jamiekelly

Personally, I blame rap music.