An Garda Siochana - Do you respect them?

Dan_Solo

k_mac wrote: »

You probably wouldn't even be taken to court. An adult caution would most likely be the extent of your discipline. If Gardaí brought everyone who assaulted them to court the court lists would be very full.

Don't make me laugh. We're talking about three punches connecting with the face. Not some squirming and wriggling that put a crease in your tie like is also technically assault.
We do know the difference between assault and battery even if we haven't been to cop school.

prinz

Dan_Solo wrote: »

They're different cases of cops getting off criminal offences due to technicalities. The first one was where the DPP took too long to bring the case and the Garda was released on a technicality. Glad they got him back eventually but like a said, let's see if Joe Public ever gets off with a fine for breaking a cop's face.

Owen Gaffney walked away with a few hours community service for smashing a garda's jaw. Not much different.

Dan_Solo

prinz wrote: »

Owen Gaffney walked away with a few hours community service for smashing a garda's jaw. Not much different.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1027/1224282072339.html
This would be the case where 4 Gardai broke into a house without a warrant and assaulted a man in his sleep and hospitalised his mother?:rolleyes:
Great example. Keep them coming.

MagicSean

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Don't make me laugh. We're talking about three punches connecting with the face. Not some squirming and wriggling that put a crease in your tie like is also technically assault.
We do know the difference between assault and battery even if we haven't been to cop school.

No you're clearly talking about something you know nothing about. I am talking about assaults that have caused injuries. You clearly have a chip on your shoulder.

Darraghnormal

A paticular night out I had about 6 months ago greatly lowered my respect for them.

Id just been laid off from work and was out on the gargle, as ye do, and being annoyed and pissed off at the world, bought a bag of jolly green as well. So everones out havin a good time, pretty drunk,giving out about work and about a hundred "if i was in charge, i tell ye what id do" conversations, back to a party in artane, everyones happy.
I left the session at about 3 in the morning, walking through artane and the guards drove by and got out. Asked me had i been drinking, which i clearly had been, told them yes, showed them ID and my work card, told them what happened that day and that i was just heading home. Then they asked me could they search me, when I asked them why they said i must have something to hide, and said tell them if i had anything on me i shouldnt have i better tell them now. So i but my hands in my pocket, and took out the bag of green i had, which wasnt much, cuffed, back to station, stripped and left in a freezing cell for 2 hours.

All for about 2 g's of green?

Respect has plummetted since then.

MagicSean

Dan_Solo wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1027/1224282072339.html
This would be the case where 4 Gardai broke into a house without a warrant and assaulted a man in his sleep and hospitalised his mother?:rolleyes:

No he broke the jaw well before that.

prinz

Dan_Solo wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1027/1224282072339.html
This would be the case where 4 Gardai broke into a house without a warrant and assaulted a man in his sleep and hospitalised his mother?:rolleyes:
Great example. Keep them coming.

No, this would be about 4 years prior to this. So the two aren't linked. He broke a garda's jaw and got nothing but community service. Not too different to a fine you might say.

Dan_Solo

k_mac wrote: »

No he broke the jaw well before that.

Right, so they broke into his house and attacked him in his sleep while hospitalising his mother on a revenge mission?
That's OK then I guess.:rolleyes:

Independent wrote:

He was given community service for fracturing the jaw of Garda Vincent Hourican in the incident -- which happened when he was aged 14 -- but he did not complete this and so was jailed for three months.

So how much jail time did you expect a 14 year old to get exactly?

drivingmenuts

Case here in ennis last weekend ...Guard gets arrested for drink driving and being abusive to other guard....brought to station...breathalised and fails.....goes to court......summons thrown out because "other" guard had dated the offence incorrectly...what a crock of ****e...how can you respect that.

digme

Getting more and more like a corporation it seems.

Dan_Solo

drivingmenuts wrote: »

Case here in ennis last weekend ...Guard gets arrested for drink driving and being abusive to other guard....brought to station...breathalised and fails.....goes to court......summons thrown out because "other" guard had dated the offence incorrectly...what a crock of ****e...how can you respect that.

In fairness it's impossible to tell whether this is perversion of justice or regular old incompetence.:D

Dan_Solo

k_mac wrote: »

No you're clearly talking about something you know nothing about. I am talking about assaults that have caused injuries. You clearly have a chip on your shoulder.

I clearly have what clearly?
Do you have any examples of battery (that is what an assault that causes injury is called, yes?) on a Garda by an adult that were resolved with a fine and no criminal record?

drivingmenuts

Dan_Solo wrote: »

In fairness it's impossible to tell whether this is perversion of justice or regular old incompetence.:D

the judge last week made it quite clear that he knew what had occured (old boys network) and the female arresting guard just sat there with her mouth shut....obviously been told to stay shtum......

Bosco boy

drivingmenuts wrote: »

Case here in ennis last weekend ...Guard gets arrested for drink driving and being abusive to other guard....brought to station...breathalised and fails.....goes to court......summons thrown out because "other" guard had dated the offence incorrectly...what a crock of ****e...how can you respect that.

A judge has to issue a summons v's a Garda, might be wrong!

Bosco boy

drivingmenuts wrote: »

the judge last week made it quite clear that he knew what had occured (old boys network) and the female arresting guard just sat there with her mouth shut....obviously been told to stay shtum......

who arrested the person, the local vet! Conspiricy my arse

samsx

do you know that that student protest was hijacked by a different element of people only interested in causing chaos and destruction. the students themselves were engaged in a right to protest and got their point across. The Guards were there to stop the messers from causing mayhem. If the Guards weren't there everyone would be giving out about the fact that they were ill prepared. No pleasing everyone..........

drivingmenuts

Bosco boy wrote: »

who arrested the person, the local vet! Conspiricy my arse

Get this weeks Clarfe people and try to reply then......It stinks to the high heaven and only a narrow minded person can not accept that there is certain members who do not follow the law they are paid to uphold.....I will post the whole article here and make your mind up then... just had a word there with a colleague there and he informed me that the Garda on duty at the station when dating the offence put in a date that was 7 months in advance of the actual offence...
At best incompetant at worst...corrupt..

Rhamiel

Bosco boy wrote: »

I didnt quite catch what you said you worked at!!!!!!!!

....ehhhh not that its relevant to this forum but if you persist in asking for whatever reasons then I can tell you I have worked plenty of ****ty jobs to put myself through education. I have Diplomas in Psychology and Fine Art/Visual Communication and am currently in the process of a Law Degree so if you want to go ahead and start a forum on me go on and work away at it like the good man!!

Wompa1

Rhamiel wrote: »

....ehhhh not that its relevant to this forum but if you persist in asking for whatever reasons then I can tell you I have worked plenty of ****ty jobs to put myself through education. I have Diplomas in Psychology and Fine Art/Visual Communication and am currently in the process of a Law Degree so if you want to go ahead and start a forum on me go on and work away at it like the good man!!

ouch! A non answer probably proves whatever point he was making for himself. You are going to be one qualified guy when you finish your law degree

steddyeddy

K-9 wrote: »

You are in a siege situation.

A few good thousand where outside the Dept. of Finance offices. You were not aware of it, but you can be sure the Gardai were aware of the threat to the State involved.

I did not say the Guards aren't to blame for some injuries. Kindly quote me where I did?

Gardai have to deal with a certain element that would have no problem in undermining the very rights and law and order you seek protection under.

I've declared my interest earlier in this thread and I am well aware of a certain element that the Guards had to deal with that day. Nowhere have I said the Guards acted perfectly. There is No idyllic solution in cases like this.

If you have a problem with the riot squad, they have clearly identifiable numbers on their helmets, captured on many a You Tube video. Report away, as is your right.

You didnt say they acted perfectly but you implied the students who got injured were partly to blame for being naive and not moving. I was there I was aware of everything, the gaurds were just acting like thugs in uniform they certainly didnt look trained to any high degree.

Some people are making out that the gaurds had no option than to act like thugs and attack people in a riot situation, the gaurds choose to use heavy handed tactics full stop they didnt have to but they did. Pushing people back and grabbing people does not create the type of injuries seen in the video. Stamping on someones head is certainly not a requirment of responding to a riot situation!

WesternNight

The once I needed them in an emergency, they were there in 3 minutes flat. Was I grateful for their quick response? Absolutely. Do I respect all Gardaí purely because they're Gardaí? Not necessarily. Do I respect the Gardaí who I've dealt with personally? Yes.

angelfire9

drivingmenuts wrote: »

the judge last week made it quite clear that he knew what had occured (old boys network) and the female arresting guard just sat there with her mouth shut....obviously been told to stay shtum......

There was a typo on the warrant the arresting Garda sat there with her mouth shut cos in fairness what the hell could she say???

Nothing to do with the "old boys network"
Most of the cops I know around Clare were pissed at what had happened in this case

And for the record the Honourable Judge Mangan does not show favouritism to the Gardai in his courts
Anyone who spends any time in the Clare district courts can tell you that!

steddyeddy

The point isnt are the individual gaurds good or bad as theres plenty of both however the issue is the garda siochcana itself allows the bad elements to continue as they are again and again. Bribary, intimidation lieing to protect collegues, assault, corruption, abuse of power and drink driving exists unopposed with in the garda and thats why I dont respect it.

Dan_Solo

angelfire9 wrote: »

And for the record the Honourable Judge Mangan does not show favouritism to the Gardai in his courts

Er, nobody was suggesting that.

steddyeddy

As regards with people saying that some gaurds are bad at their job, many people are bad at their job but much of what people report the gaurds for is illegal activity and corruption and that goes well beyond being bad at your job!

K-9

steddyeddy wrote: »

You didnt say they acted perfectly but you implied the students who got injured were partly to blame for being naive and not moving. I was there I was aware of everything, the gaurds were just acting like thugs in uniform they certainly didnt look trained to any high degree.

Some people are making out that the gaurds had no option than to act like thugs and attack people in a riot situation, the gaurds choose to use heavy handed tactics full stop they didnt have to but they did. Pushing people back and grabbing people does not create the type of injuries seen in the video. Stamping on someones head is certainly not a requirment of responding to a riot situation!

I never seen any video evidence of a Guard stamping on somebodies head. If I did see it I wouldn't be defending it. There was a lot of exaggerations over how the Guards behaved on the day though.

And yes, if you don't clear out of the area ASAP when the riot squad arrive, you are naive. Nothing good is going to happen in a siege situation.

You don't seem to have any appreciation of the task they faced on the day. Some people suggested they should have made arrests which ignores the logistics of the situation. No matter what they did the usual naysayers would be on here attacking them.

steddyeddy

I never seen any video evidence of a Guard stamping on somebodies head. If I did see it I wouldn't be defending it. There was a lot of exaggerations over how the Guards behaved on the day though.

I was there it was one of the many incidents that was reported

And yes, if you don't clear out of the area ASAP when the riot squad arrive, you are naive. Nothing good is going to happen in a siege situation.

Agree but even so the so the gaurds and only the gaurds were responsible for the injuries inflicted, heavy handedness like that is not needed. look at the riots in london and note the force and tactics used there.

You don't seem to have any appreciation of the task they faced on the day. Some people suggested they should have made arrests which ignores the logistics of the situation. No matter what they did the usual naysayers would be on here attacking them.

I have massive apreciation of the task, how they responded to the task I take issue with. I dont think they could have made arrests but there are other non violent methods of riot control they could have put their horses to better use for one thing.

Dan_Solo

K-9 wrote: »

And yes, if you don't clear out of the area ASAP when the riot squad arrive, you are naive. Nothing good is going to happen in a siege situation.

Ah right, so if a Garda batters you for being a peaceful protester then it's your own fault because you should know that Garda regularly batter peaceful protesters.
It's all so clear now that it's the peaceful protesters fault. Thanks for clearing that up sergeant.

steddyeddy

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Ah right, so if a Garda batters you for being a peaceful protester then it's your own fault because you should know that Garda regularly batter peaceful protesters.
It's all so clear now that it's the peaceful protesters fault. Thanks for clearing that up sergeant.

exactly what is on the video is riot officers rushing students and not the other way around also the riot officers hitting students sitting on the ground.

K-9

steddyeddy wrote: »

I was there it was one of the many incidents that was reported



Agree but even so the so the gaurds and only the gaurds were responsible for the injuries inflicted, heavy handedness like that is not needed. look at the riots in london and note the force and tactics used there.



I have massive apreciation of the task, how they responded to the task I take issue with. I dont think they could have made arrests but there are other non violent methods of riot control they could have put their horses to better use for one thing.

It must be on one of the many Youtube clips. Jaysus, a Guard stamping on somebodies head would be gold for the protesters.

So the guy who was taped kicking at the riot squad outide the DOF offices didn't deserve a hit with a baton? The guy who was held up as an example of what happened?

With rights come responsibilities and if you behave irresponsibly, you don't have many rights.

They did use the horses to clear the area but the they got slated for that too. It depends on heavy handedness. A guy getting a few whacks of a baton for earlier kicking at riot squad Gardai isn'r heavy handedness. It may look like that on a few clips on RTE news or You tube, but Garda brutality it does not make.

Once a siege or riot situation develops, you do not argue with a Guard. In a peaceful protest like the original march you can and may well get away with it. In a public order situation, that's out the window.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Ah right, so if a Garda batters you for being a peaceful protester then it's your own fault because you should know that Garda regularly batter peaceful protesters.
It's all so clear now that it's the peaceful protesters fault. Thanks for clearing that up sergeant.

That's quite the strawman you built there.