Commentary test for inferno- healthy criticism please

Doctor DooM

Hey guys,

Farz was kind enough to help out with a commentary test the other night.

Something went wrong with the recording and there were some HORRIBLE
sync issues. I'm trying to take the decent bits I can.

I've done a little research and it seems the software I'm using is prone to desync with a hauppage so I've got the "superior" software for next time.

I'm going to throw up a few clips and if anyone has some ideas, I'd like to hear them.

Please note: The girl talking knows nothing about SF, I just wanted to check multiple volume levels from the mics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PDFCB8Zrds

Things I have noticed:

The game volume does indeed need to be reduced to virtually nothing.

You need to speak loudly, clearly, and very quickly to do this at all. It's actually quite difficult to call things as they happen. I think there's going to be a lot of people who think they can do this who can't

You don't notice just how little you actually know about SF until you try commentating on a match

I had a habit of moving the mic away from my mouth (and should know better from podcasting). I think I am going to have to sit on monitor duty and gently assist the commentators for a while

The audio floats in and out of sync in this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn1oDWqCAJc

Any comments? Do I need to increase the high end on the mics a bit?

Doctor DooM

Also Farz don't worry I will make sure to put up some of you winning later.

Placebo

i ****in knew that was you on chun, thanks for using terrible matches but jeez LOVIN THE COMMENTARY just gives it another dimensions, doesnt even matter if its accurate or relevant. Would defo watch inferno replays if they have commentary

GorySnake

lol Farz

It sounds really good. We need Ry and Zorin on commentary for Infernos

Doctor DooM

Placebo wrote: »

i ****in knew that was you on chun, thanks for using terrible matches but jeez LOVIN THE COMMENTARY just gives it another dimensions, doesnt even matter if its accurate or relevant. Would defo watch inferno replays if they have commentary

I'm not picking bad matches on purpose. The desyncing was so bad in the first round of that fight as to be severely distracting (2 characters would be fliging fireballs at each other and suddenly I'd shout "WHAT AN ULTRA!!!")

But it's better to find these things now than at inferno.

Tallon

I liked it

Sairus

Both commentators seemed a little too quiet for my tastes, particularly the girl. Wether that was yee talking too quietly or the actual audio levels I dont know.

Doctor DooM wrote: »

You need to speak loudly, clearly, and very quickly to do this at all. It's actually quite difficult to call things as they happen. I think there's going to be a lot of people who think they can do this who can't

You don't notice just how little you actually know about SF until you try commentating on a match

Our brief attempt at commentating on the Makoto v Makoto match at Eirtakon comes to mind here. That lasted all of, what, 10 seconds before we gave up? XD

Doctor DooM

Sairus wrote: »

Both commentators seemed a little too quiet for my tastes, particularly the girl. Wether that was yee talking too quietly or the actual audio levels I dont know.


Our brief attempt at commentating on the Makoto v Makoto match at Eirtakon comes to mind here. That lasted all of, what, 10 seconds before we gave up? XD

lol yeah the problem was I had to think the name of the moves, and of course you basically need to commentate on reaction.

Do you mean ayjay's voice was quiet? I thought I sounded really LOUD when I took the mike back from him after the chun fight.

Vyze

Sounds good. Although one thing for general commentary (as opposed to sound levels etc) - all the best stuff I've heard was by Rockfeller/Sub-Zero/etc where they spend half the time just taking the piss out of the players rather than talking about the match itself. Maybe even at least just throw in a little discussion about who is playing and so on whenever there's not a lot of specific things to say about the match.

Also, if you have two people commentating I've always quite like the dynamic of having one knowledgable person and one "keen but uneducated" person. That way, you can have commentary that not only has a deep analysis of what's going on, you've also got the non-player to ask questions that will help explain the game to anybody who's thinking of picking up the game for the first time. e.g. in 3S the less knowledgable person can ask why someone is whiffing a normal a lot so that the other one can explain what it's good for, etc.

Orim

I haven't watched them yet but I agree with Vyzes comments.

However I think that's the sort of stuff that will get picked up on once we get the commentary sorted. For a while it'll just be grab people who are available but eventually we'll break it down to get the people who are good at commentating for whatever reason.

I doubt that any commentator you want to name went straight to commentating. It's jsut something you'd start doing while waiting for a match or having been knocked out of the tournament.

GorySnake

I agree with Vyze, one commentator who knows his stuff, and one there for the laugh (but can still commentate). One style of commentary I hate seeing on streams is literal play-by-play. Calling each and every move exactly as it happens offers nothing to the viewer (low forward, fireball, low forward, fireball). I'd much rather hear what strategy is being played at that point, whats going through the player's minds, at least from the commentators viewpoint and other things like good matchup knowledge.

Example of useless commentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkjoywaqHeI

Also, I only saw the first video which sounded great so if it sounds like Im getting at you, my apologies.

Doctor DooM

GorySnake wrote: »

Also, I only saw the first video which sounded great so if it sounds like Im getting at you, my apologies.

Nah it's all good stuff, keep it coming

UberPrinny_Baal

Haha, that's a fun video.

I actually really like Rachel as a commentator, her voice sounds like any Irish DJ on the radio.

"There's a bird in the hippos mouth!" made me laugh out loud.

I definitely agree with Gory and Vyze that the one less knowledgeable commentator makes things better.

We could all take turns at this at the next Inferno, since all the best players will be occupied by playing.

unky chop chop

Vote Ry for #1 commentator

Rob2D

Doctor DooM wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn1oDWqCAJc

Hahaha Cammy gets a "big DP punish". Unintentional humour FTW.

Other than the sync issue, it sounds fine to me.

Ry

GorySnake wrote: »

lol Farz

It sounds really good. We need Ry and Zorin on commentary for Infernos

Yeh both of them!

On the tests;

Really promising Brian. Small sync issues but I think you've nearly got it down. Just having some commentary really did add to it even at the slightest interest in what was going on so I'm excited to see where it can go with better audio sync and sound levels! Fair play!

D4RK ONION

Oh Farz, that was poor :P

Great stuff DooM, must try my hand at this next time, I think I did okay at eirtakon with you and sairus.

Placebo

i am poor !!!!!!

Doctor DooM

To be fair to Farz he warms up and wins a couple towards the end. I'll throw them up later just so he has the evidence


Thanks for all the stuff lads, I'm going to keep it all in mind (as should everyone who wants to take a shot at it).

In advance I will forewarn as well we'll prob attract some negative attention on yt. If anyone is sensitive about that, don't do it.

Sairus

GorySnake wrote: »

Example of useless commentary:

God that was terrible. Actually painful to listen to.

ayjayirl

Good input from all. Keep it coming as Beno says. I think it will benefit from you guys doing the commentary. It would also help with the two players playing locally rather than over the net as it will add to the atmosphere and at Inferno it would do that. Plus you can comment on the reactions of each player to the win/lose.

Brian, just a thought..... If you run the audio from the splitter to the desk and then to the hauppauge it might give better control over levels. Maybe you did, I'm not sure cause there were about 5000 wires, 3 boxes of elecs, xbox wires and a dog.

You could also look at a 'reaction mic'.one that is multi-directional for picking up the crowd (in a level controlled way) for inferno. Dunno what that would cost - probably upwards of 300 quid for a decent one but might add to it.

ayjayirl

Doctor DooM wrote: »

To be fair to Farz he warms up and wins a couple towards the end.

Did he? hmmm.

Ramza

I thought it was good for a first time

Doctor DooM

ayjayirl wrote: »

Brian, just a thought..... If you run the audio from the splitter to the desk and then to the hauppauge it might give better control over levels. Maybe you did, I'm not sure cause there were about 5000 wires, 3 boxes of elecs, xbox wires and a dog.

You could also look at a 'reaction mic'.one that is multi-directional for picking up the crowd (in a level controlled way) for inferno. Dunno what that would cost - probably upwards of 300 quid for a decent one but might add to it.

That's the exact set up I used, but as you said it wasn't the tidiest of set ups. If Zeus was not there it clearly would not have worked.


I think the mics will pick up claps etc. There's a few times in the tests when you can hear me laughing or whatever in the background.

Anywho I have spent enough on this stuff for the next while, time to put it to use before I spend any more on omni directional mics

ayjayirl

Doctor DooM wrote: »

omni directional mics

Thanks, couldn't think of the word.



In a band for over 10 year my arse!!!!:P

[SARCASM]Well done Jacko[/SARCASM]

A-Trak

Fair play Brian, I think this is a brilliant step forward.
to be honest, I'd rarely watch the more recent videos as they were a bit sterile.

This adds personality & atmosphere to them, well played.

Also baggy doing a scathing commentary if Dave is ever playing

Sisko

This is great.


As for feedback, well you know me I'm all about editing , so my personal preference would all splitting the audio tracks and manually balancing the audio levels so the game level and the voice level have a nice mix. Editing also solves some sync issues.

I mean back when I was suggesting commentating before back before any decent gear was owned by anyone I was suggesting getting a ****ty tape recorder with mics plugged in and I would have added in the commentators audio in over the games in an editor.

But of course editing adds a hell of a lot of time to the process.

All that aside, how much space does all your gear take up, can you see it being done in XGC? Are you cool with it being used at XGC?

Vyze

As Sisko said, having the commentary totally separate is better do editing reasons. Plus that means if the commentary goes badly (say some prick keeps shouting over your shoulders), you haven't spoiled the sound from the original game in case you just wanna fade to that.

Doctor DooM

On the last couple of points.

I'm not doing commentary seperately and editing. I don't have the skills or the extra time required to do it (while it might only take a couple of minutes a video to settle the audio levels etc, rendering HD footage is quite slow).

I'd definitely consider doing it though if someone would volunteer to do the leg work once the recording was done.

On the point of XGC- no, I don't ever forsee using the full set up there.

This isn't as bad as it sounds as the goal is for inferno not to return to XGC and the lads up North have a college to play with.


The reasons being- all this gear together is just a little too unweildy and a little too expensive for me to leave in a place like XGC where accidents can and already have happened. This needs to be done in a more controlled environment.

Secondly, it would be hugely unfair to the other patrons to have two people shouting their heads off about frame advantage while trying to play call of honoureachblops. We did a test in XGC and this to me was the truly major issue.

Placebo

I think keep it AS quick, easy and simple as possible, separating sound etc is too much work and for what ? a monthly competition?

whats more important is, a desk with a white cloth, two nice mic's
Ryan and another volunteer.


GAME ON

Doctor DooM

Placebo wrote: »

I think keep it AS quick, easy and simple as possible, separating sound etc is too much work and for what ? a monthly competition?

This is it basically. Simply too much time.

Kirby

This is great Doom. Commentary adds so much to the atmosphere and I'm sure it will pick up crowd reactions too.

Commentary and crowd is so, so much better than in game sounds. We don't need to hear Ryu shout Hadoken! for the umpteenth time, do we? But hearing people on the mic rag on airthrows and turtling and random ultra's is awesome

bush

Sounds good to me. Can the players still hear the ingame sounds as usual, ye?

Misty Chaos

You have something pretty damn good going on here, keep it up, Doom.

Heh, I can already see what sort of commentary they'll have when I come up with this set up in place for the first time;

Commentator: And heres comes Misty Chaos, better known for sleeping around the gaff than in his in game skills! :pac:

Doctor DooM

Bush80 wrote: »

Sounds good to me. Can the players still hear the ingame sounds as usual, ye?

Yup, that's what I needed the splitter for and why I couldn't do it for the last inferno, otherwise the tv's speakers would be outputting the commentary directly at the players

UberPrinny_Baal

The play-by-play commentary style we're all deriding is definitely pretty good for stuff like listening to an important sports match on the radio, where the announcer has to create a visual picture in the mind of the listeners.

That style simply isn't necessary in Street Fighter though, because we're all WATCHING the match. Even the most newbish of newb players (and most non-players) will know a fireball when they see it, they don't need to be told what it is.

The stuff Doom was doing talking about what the players were thinking, what they needed to do next, and the overall strategy behind the moves was all great.

Specific examples I liked in the commentary:

"Farz is focusing fireballs to try and build ultra, once he has it he can threaten it on any other fireballs"

"Ohhhh, whiffed the super, but he's still in control of the match with Farz down and he's keeping the pressure up."

"He can just sit back and wait, he has the life lead and there's only 15 seconds left, he can force Farz into action."

"Keep the pressure on, keep the pressure on, AW he let him back up"

"There's a bird in the hippos mouth!"

Sairus

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

The play-by-play commentary style we're all deriding is definitely pretty good for stuff like listening to an important sports match on the radio, where the announcer has to create a visual picture in the mind of the listeners.

That style simply isn't necessary in Street Fighter though, because we're all WATCHING the match. Even the most newbish of newb players (and most non-players) will know a fireball when they see it, they don't need to be told what it is.

Oh yar, I really should have said something along those lines as it's exactly how I feel on the topic

Doctor DooM

Here's the last third, including vitally Farzes victories

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S40EZmlzGo

DAVE!!!

Placebo

who the **** is dave, i hate him
also my PP is low because im playing cammy ranked, phasing the chun out

its great to hear commentary kinda helps ur game
also what normal anti airs do u think are best? online none work that well except d,f lk , even that in advance.

Orim

For Chun :

cr.MP, st.FP, st.MK, cr.MK, st.RH, cr.RH

There's some others but they'd be the main ones besides d/f.LK

All situational though.

ayjayirl

First time I think I have ever heard that Optimus is cute.

Hilarious.

Placebo

Orim wrote: »

For Chun :

cr.MP, st.FP, st.MK, cr.MK, st.RH, cr.RH

There's some others but they'd be the main ones besides d/f.LK

All situational though.

cr.MP, = great only if close
st.FP, = crap
st.MK, = so slow
cr.MK, = ?
st.RH, = slower
cr.RH = good with honda, i find

this is all online though, i dont get much offline play

Dreddybajs

Placebo wrote: »

cr.MP, = great only if close
st.FP, = crap
st.MK, = so slow
cr.MK, = ?
st.RH, = slower
cr.RH = good with honda, i find

this is all online though, i dont get much offline play

That's why Dan said "all situational", they're all good AA moves, you just gotta learn when to use them. Chun imo has some of the best antiair in the game, but it's some of the hardest to put to use cause a lot of it is matchup or spacing specific.

Sagat06

Dreddybajs wrote: »

That's why Dan said "all situational", they're all good AA moves, you just gotta learn when to use them. Chun imo has some of the best antiair in the game, but it's some of the hardest to put to use cause a lot of it is matchup or spacing specific.

Agree completely, jumping in on Bush for example is a nightmare, he mixes them up to great affect.

Placebo

sure you can use her slap for a lame late anit air.
CHUN imo has pretty bad AA's when compared to say ryu. You could cross chun up all day.

Orim

Placebo wrote: »

cr.MP, = great only if close
st.FP, = crap
st.MK, = so slow
cr.MK, = ?
st.RH, = slower
cr.RH = good with honda, i find

this is all online though, i dont get much offline play

As I said it depends on the match and the jump in.

As an example, st.FP will beat Boxer everytime he leaves the ground, pretty much without fail. It's also very good in the Adon and Dudley match.

cr.MP will either beat a shotos MK/RH jump or at worst will make them whiff with the lowered hitbox. cr.MK is the similar. You can make a lot of jumps whiff by using it.

st.MK starts up in 7 frames, which isn't terrible. Quicker than d/f LK and if you do it late you can use the close version to AA which is 4 frames.

st.RH is slow but it has a great hitbox and is more for reacting to jumps when they are distance away from you. it's especially good against the big characters that you can hit with it even if they don't jump.

This is one of problems with Chun, she doesn't have a go to normal AA. You have to try and learn your spacing and angles and work on it and remember the situations where x,y or z will work. All else fails go for the airthrow.

Doctor DooM

Placebo wrote: »

who the **** is dave, i hate him
also my PP is low because im playing cammy ranked, phasing the chun out

its great to hear commentary kinda helps ur game
also what normal anti airs do u think are best? online none work that well except d,f lk , even that in advance.

Farz, when you were playing me I was delibrately using the standing hp aa to show you how!

Also bush often uses cr mp online on me.

Doctor DooM

Orim wrote: »

In all situations go for the airthrow.

F'ed your Pee.

Placebo

Orim wrote: »

As I said it depends on the match and the jump in.

As an example, st.FP will beat Boxer everytime he leaves the ground, pretty much without fail. It's also very good in the Adon and Dudley match.

cr.MP will either beat a shotos MK/RH jump or at worst will make them whiff with the lowered hitbox. cr.MK is the similar. You can make a lot of jumps whiff by using it.

st.MK starts up in 7 frames, which isn't terrible. Quicker than d/f LK and if you do it late you can use the close version to AA which is 4 frames.

st.RH is slow but it has a great hitbox and is more for reacting to jumps when they are distance away from you. it's especially good against the big characters that you can hit with it even if they don't jump.

This is one of problems with Chun, she doesn't have a go to normal AA. You have to try and learn your spacing and angles and work on it and remember the situations where x,y or z will work. All else fails go for the airthrow.

a lot of them while situational need to be very accurate where risk vs reward leans more toward risk. example is MK , late, its excellent works great in training, try it in match, you'll eat some nice damage. Because all her AA's are situational and need to be quite accurate i would rate a simple SRK over most of them.
But i dont play enough with her anymore so

Dreddybajs

You can cross any character up if you know the right setups.

I don't see how her slap would be any use at all, you're only going to get 40 damage and it has a crap hitbox.

edit: "you have to be accurate" isn't a reason not to use the antiairs, you have to be accurate with Ryu's DP too even. It's just a case of actually spending time learning to use them

bush

Chun has godlike AAs. She just doesnt have a one for all AA