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Huge waste of money by University

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    #62
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    bigpink wrote: »
    How is that sad?
    How depressed do you think 1000's of people with kids and houses feel with no jobs etc?Aw the poor chanters will help them through im sure

    I can't keep talking to you because I think I could be banned if I said what I thought here. Evidently, you don't take anyone's views on-board as evidenced by the fact that refuse to acknowledge the point I and others have repeatedly made about the non-monetary value of music and chant. Try considering a viewpoint outside of your own life.


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    #63
    jimthemental
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭jimthemental


    Millicent wrote: »
    You're saying €40,000 for a lecturer is not proportionate? For a lecturer in a university, it's actually pretty low. Average salary was in the mid 60s a couple of years ago. That's not taking into account the more competitive pay in some more "esteemed" colleges, where lecturers could fairly reasonably expect a salary in the 80,000 range.

    I know but I still have a feeling that a Professor in chemistry or physics is going to be more useful to more students and possibly bring in a fairly large wedge too. Of course on the other hand I feel that the majority of these people are overpaid. Another point is that most of these people are teaching our best and brightest and yet most have no formal training in how to educate. I understand this is getting off topic and I'm taking attention away from chanting but I think they should just cut either the cost or the position and move on to sorting some of the important issues in our third level system.


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    #64
    spinandscribble
    Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭spinandscribble


    stupid thread is stupid. Begrudging is a fine thing isn't it? Really shows true colours. Lol at the special needs cut music comment. Would op prefer we put them to work in a sweat shop to help make money? I don't think much tax will come from sweat shop wages...


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    #65
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    bigpink wrote: »
    Have you done the chanting course?

    I didn't go to UL but study of Gregorian chant was first and second year stuff for my music degree. We learned the writing and history of it, rather than that and the performance. It is one of the founding disciplines of modern music. You're throwing stones at something you haven't the first clue about.


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    #66
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    So cuting music therapy for kids that benefit from it is ok?But having chanting courses for adults is better


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    #67
    Moist Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭Moist Bread


    bigpink wrote: »

    Yeah my Dad listens to alot of music but that aint going to pay the bills.

    No it is not it was an opinion this thread
    No he is not a minister

    If he played music in a band and got gigs, then he might pay the bills. If he did a course on music he might make a few bob teaching music too. Even teach some chanting grinds in his spare time - there's good money in that, I hear.


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    #68
    highlydebased
    Registered Users Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    Sure with your attitude we may aswell cut all the courses, sure what good are degrees in music, science, business etc -.- better off have school leavers on the dole?


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    #69
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    Millicent wrote: »
    I can't keep talking to you because I think I could be banned if I said what I thought here. Evidently, you don't take anyone's views on-board as evidenced by the fact that refuse to acknowledge the point I and others have repeatedly made about the non-monetary value of music and chant. Try considering a viewpoint outside of your own life.

    Say what you too or pm me it
    I see the non monetary value,i like music but dont expect taxpayers to pay for me to study it
    Try considering a viewpoint of people that would work at any job these days


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    #70
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    smellslikeshoes wrote: »
    Could also say the same about music and art or any performing art, sure lets just abolish it all :rolleyes:

    In a University context, I'd agree.


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    #71
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    jimthemental wrote: »
    I know but I still have a feeling that a Professor in chemistry or physics is going to be more useful to more students and possibly bring in a fairly large wedge too. Of course on the other hand I feel that the majority of these people are overpaid. Another point is that most of these people are teaching our best and brightest and yet most have no formal training in how to educate. I understand this is getting off topic and I'm taking attention away from chanting but I think they should just cut either the cost or the position and move on to sorting some of the important issues in our third level system.

    I'll agree that lecturers here are overpaid, no question. I heard of some on higher than the 80,000 I mentioned. The candidate for this job though is required to have experience teaching both chorally and at third level. They also need a whole lot more besides. I don't think 40-50,000 is as overpaid as many, many others around the country.


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    #72
    highlydebased
    Registered Users Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    Furthermore, the post is looking for a lecturer for a masters course, for which students pay fees, so not really funded by the taxpayer...


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    #73
    studiorat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    bigpink wrote: »
    So please tell what this chanting course does for this country?Are you making a living from music?Isnt artists very low tax?

    That's a myth, Musicians pay the same tax as everybody else.

    That's a good job for a music teacher somewhere. I work in a similar place and now is a pretty good time to be working in education imo.

    I agree it is kind of depressing that there seems to be people who can't see beyond accountancy and business as a career. What did the people who studied business and economics every do for the country? :pac:

    Anyway teaching music is much more important than teaching friggin economics or some boring sh1te like that.


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    #74
    ClutchIt
    Registered Users Posts: 709 ✭✭✭ClutchIt


    bigpink wrote: »
    Id rate business alot more than a chanting course
    Music to any normal person is hobby/past time shur if my dad is out of work next year he should go to a chanting course come get real

    I don't think anyone would recommend doing a chanting course if they were looking to gain employment from it. If they were looking at it as an academic excercise then it would be more suitable, as you would learn about the first type of melodic music (not rythm based, like drumming) in the world.

    Do doctors need to know physics to perform their jobs? No. However they are all taught it as it is important to understand the fundamentals of why things happen. This is a basis for not just cutting chanting adrift from the rest of the world and abolishing any teaching of it. Oh our country is broke? Well then should we just leave someone else pay for the teaching of this subject, or should we actually have some pride in the culture of this country?


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    #75
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    Neon-Circles wrote: »
    Sure with your attitude we may aswell cut all the courses, sure what good are degrees in music, science, business etc -.- better off have school leavers on the dole?

    Science,business with some tuning and cutting,id leave alone but chanting im sorry people should have to pay for that themselves

    I did 2 years of business and being honest excpet 2 subjects but wassnt great thats why i left and to work also
    If i had to pay a fee id prob wouldnt have gone to college till after working for a few years


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    #76
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    bigpink wrote: »
    Say what you too or pm me it
    I see the non monetary value,i like music but dont expect taxpayers to pay for me to study it
    Try considering a viewpoint of people that would work at any job these days

    I won't, I don't believe in being rude so I'll refrain. And you're making a lot of presumptions in this thread. Why would I not be considering a viewpoint of working people these days by virtue of my argument here? I'm sure someone unemployed with the relevant qualifications would love this job.

    I also note that there is a Sports job advertised on jobs.ie for around the same salary. Why have you no issue with that?


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    #77
    spinandscribble
    Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭spinandscribble


    bigpink wrote: »
    So cuting music therapy for kids that benefit from it is ok?But having chanting courses for adults is better



    :D obvious troll is obvious. Your idea to get rid of music/art therapy not mine bucko.


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    #78
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    Millicent wrote: »
    I won't, I don't believe in being rude so I'll refrain. And you're making a lot of presumptions in this thread. Why would I not be considering a viewpoint of working people these days by virtue of my argument here? I'm sure someone unemployed with the relevant qualifications would love this job.

    I also note that there is a Sports job advertised on jobs.ie for around the same salary. Why have you no issue with that?

    No go on say it..
    I never said your not but you said my viewpoint is limited so im suggesting you see a viewpoint aswell
    Shur nothing stoping you starting a thread on it if you think its a waste


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    #79
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    spinandscribble wrote: »
    :D obvious troll is obvious. Your idea to get rid of music/art therapy not mine bucko.

    Not my idea plenty of cuts for special needs kids


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    #80
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Gregorian chant is wonderful :(


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    #81
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Neon-Circles wrote: »
    Furthermore, the post is looking for a lecturer for a masters course, for which students pay fees, so not really funded by the taxpayer...

    Completely missed that! If that course has even 20 people at €4,500 (the lower end of the Master's scale -- no price listed on UL website), there's 50,000 left over after paying that lecturer.


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    #82
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    bigpink wrote: »
    No go on say it..
    I never said your not but you said my viewpoint is limited so im suggesting you see a viewpoint aswell
    Shur nothing stoping you starting a thread on it if you think its a waste

    You have presumed throughout this thread that I and others are upper-class snobs. No apology after that. You have presumed that I can't consider the viewpoints of those working. Wrong again and no apology. You have refused to consider that art and music can generate income, even though you have been twice called on that. I would posit that I'm not the one that can't see any other viewpoints here.


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    #83
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    Millicent wrote: »
    Completely missed that! If that course has even 20 people at €4,500 (the lower end of the Master's scale -- no price listed on UL website), there's 50,000 left over after paying that lecturer.

    Well if U.l can confirm that zero taxpayers money is spent on it,then ive no problem with it:) everyones happy


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    #84
    JonJoeDali
    Closed Accounts Posts: 537 ✭✭✭JonJoeDali


    If UL was a private institution, more power to them. But the fact is that UL are pretty much 100% state funded. Whilst I disagree with a lot of the stuff being said about the arts on this thread, I think that if you're going to remain 100% funded by the State, when told to jump you should ask "how high?". If UL made steps towards making themselves more independent, high level intellectual pursuits can be justified. As it is, UL is not a university AFAIC - they're a glorified polytechnic and should focus on training monkeys for the dwindling multinational interests in the area.


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    #85
    spinandscribble
    Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭spinandscribble


    bigpink wrote: »
    Not my idea plenty of cuts for special needs kids

    Getting mad at the arts sector for the public cuts that affect special needs kids is pretty wacky. The arts sector is suffering too and the way UL decide to structure their course and heaven forbid, pay people for their expertise has nothing to do with it. And I know plenty of UL Music therapy grads (who needed their music degree before getting qualified) working with special needs kids so it comes full circle in the end anyway. We have enough law/business grads out of work so by your logic we should cut those courses too?


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    #86
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    Millicent wrote: »
    You have presumed throughout this thread that I and others are upper-class snobs. No apology after that. You have presumed that I can't consider the viewpoints of those working. Wrong again and no apology. You have refused to consider that art and music can generate income, even though you have been twice called on that. I would posit that I'm not the one that can't see any other viewpoints here.

    Never called you a upper class snob,i said it feels like your looking down at people in hard times while defending a chanting course

    Im sure art and music has an income no doubt but its very niche

    Told you if no taxpayers money is wasted on it that is fine


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    #87
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    spinandscribble wrote: »
    Getting mad at the arts sector for the public cuts that affect special needs kids is pretty wacky. The arts sector is suffering too and the way UL decide to structure their course and heaven forbid, pay people for their expertise has nothing to do with it. And I know plenty of UL Music therapy grads (who needed their music degree before getting qualified) working with special needs kids so it comes full circle in the end anyway. We have enough law/business grads out of work so by your logic we should cut those courses too?

    Well hopfully they use music for kids but google a bit u'll find stories of cuts in this sector which are wrong but not chanting


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    #88
    Moist Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭Moist Bread


    Serious post: This thread is pretty redundant and is just going around in circles at this stage.


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    #89
    spinandscribble
    Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭spinandscribble


    bigpink wrote: »
    Never called you a upper class snob,i said it feels like your looking down at people in hard times while defending a chanting course

    Im sure art and music has an income no doubt but its very niche

    Told you if no taxpayers money is wasted on it that is fine

    I think you'll find it's you looking down on others calling peoples courses a "waste". Millicent hasn't "looked down" on anyone and i challenge you to point out one area he/she did.


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    #90
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    So im 100% wrong?
    Anyway we could put up a poll about it?


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    #91
    spinandscribble
    Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭spinandscribble


    Moist Bread wrote: »
    Serious post: This thread is pretty redundant and is just going around in circles at this stage.

    agreed. *out*


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