Irish Media Is A Joke

RockinRolla

But why are FF distancing themselves from any kind of deal if they are not telling porkies...

-Is it because they are afraid they will be forced to throw their own buddies and cronies to the wolves instead of the ordinary working people?

-Or are they afraid that they will be forced to put a stop to Eamon Ryan, Batt O'Keefe and others, and their 'grand schemes', that so much of a certain kind of political capital has already been built on the promise of?

-Or are they afraid they will be forced to cut all politician salaries, and demonstrate that they are serious about tackling corruption and cutting the political class down to size?

-Or are they afraid they will be forced to tackle the rampant rent-seeking, subsidy dole, and cartelism in this country, to reduce the cost of living and thus lower wages and welfare spending?

- Or are they afraid that they will be forced to cut state spending on private sector contracts, and further ruin the political capital they have built up on the back of clientism and cronyism?-

Should we not just bankrupt the country as a population, nobody would have to pay their mortgages and new clean banks could be set up...everybody wins.

maxxie

russia today lads

Biggins

RockinRolla wrote: »

But why are FF distancing themselves from any kind of deal if they are not telling porkies...

...Don't forget about a bye-election to win!

gizmo

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Frontline, news at one (radio) and Morning Ireland, are excellent and impartial.

Tubridy, Duffy, Finucane, and Miriam, are a joke in terms of their lack of impartiality.

It boils down to this, RTE is the only semi state that has not seen major change in recent years, and is insulated from real world economics.

It is the ruling party that hold the purse strings, and RTE know that, and are intertwined in it.

FF do not have the moral compass to allow RTE true impartiality, they criticised Pat Kenny and his team only two weeks ago for having the temerity to criticise the government on Frontline.

I'd agree with all of that bar the Frontline comment. I don't find it impartial at all and as I said in the above post, find it the mirror image of Primetime with respect to it's attitude to the government. Of course, FF considering a boycott of the program is completely juvenile and indefensible.

Speaking of the News At One actually, I noticed with some dismay that on Thursday they reported that industrial output in the country had risen 12% which was a nice change of pace to the general doom and gloom reporting. Unfortunately, the story was not run on any further news bulletin throughout the rest of the day which I found highly disappointing.

RoundyMooney

This is worth a read as well (yep, I know it's O' Reilly's rag!):

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/director-general-please-fix-our-lopsided-and-opinionated-rte-2418379.html

dotsman

RockinRolla wrote: »

Well, one side is telling porkies...

However, any kind of deal with the IMF-EU, as a matter of fact, would require a referendum laid out by the Irish constitution. Articles 1, 5 and 29 specifically, are in direct opposition to the proposed bailout with IMF interferance.

I don't think you quite understand how all this works.

skelliser

If you want to know how biased our media is toward the current status que then read this personal attack on a guy who predicted all of whats happened.

Sickening.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/just-who-is-morgan-kelly-2419341.html

Dudess

RockinRolla wrote: »

Until now, I never realised what it was like to be in some banana republic where the media was controlled by the government. Ireland in 2010 is comparable to the USSR pre 1989 where we have to depend on foreign news sources to understand whats happening in our own country!

No it isn't - we can bitch and moan about it all we want. It's romantic to pretend we're repressed I'm sure, but we're not.

Monty Burnz

PCros wrote: »

It is yeah

IMF: Ireland are grand they can get by alone
EU: No application for bailout received
Cowen: We didnt apply for a bailout

BBC: Ireland are fúcked
Sky: Ireland are fúcked
Bloomberg: Ireland are fúcked etc etc

Who do we believe the media or the actually parties involved?

I believe the guys with nothing at stake, not directly under the control of the Irish government. What amazes me is that Irish people are suddenly aware that we are goosed - all the info you need has been in the public domain for at least 4 years. The problem is that, when we could have made a difference, nobody was interested.

Cowen and Lenihan have not told the truth for a long time, and they keep making wrong calls. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but you will find that there are blogs and forums out there that are far superior sources of info than the goverment or (that other branch of government) RTE.

Nodin

Has anyone emailed the indo to see if we're allowed have this thread.....?

Monty Burnz

Dudess wrote: »

No it isn't - we can bitch and moan about it all we want. It's romantic to pretend we're repressed I'm sure, but we're not.

I believe he was referring to the control of the media, not to freedom of speech. And I thought it was pretty clear that he was referring to the media to be honest.

Cavehill Red

skelliser wrote: »

If you want to know how biased our media is toward the current status que then read this personal attack on a guy who predicted all of whats happened.

Sickening.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/just-who-is-morgan-kelly-2419341.html

A poorer attempt at an ad hominem hatchet job I couldn't imagine. They admit he was correct, quote a rival saying he's correct, can't even list his qualifications (because googling didn't turn them up) and use the usual anoymous 'sources' to say he's eccentric.

Collins isn't a bad hack but he ought to be ashamed of this piece of sh!t.

sollar

Countries going bankrupt is always going to be big news. I remember years ago when argentina went belly up it was all over the news.

The government here have told so many lies how could we possibly believe them anymore

RoundyMooney

Cavehill Red wrote: »

A poorer attempt at an ad hominem hatchet job I couldn't imagine. They admit he was correct, quote a rival saying he's correct, can't even list his qualifications (because googling didn't turn them up) and use the usual anoymous 'sources' to say he's eccentric.

Collins isn't a bad hack but he ought to be ashamed of this piece of sh!t.

Liam Collins, on Morgan Kelly wrote:

He stayed largely under the radar until he spotted what should have been the bleeding obvious -- that the housing boom was mad.

Really, Liam? (Like The Sun's lawyers, always watching, I know some lackey from INM will see this).

One of the biggest cheerleaders for the housing boom was the paper that pays your wages, and you come out with this biased hypocrisy?

I know your paymasters wanted Kelly's head on a platter this week, but this is ridiculous.

RoundyMooney

On the question as to whether we believe our politicians, or foreign media sources, well let's wait and see, shall we?

I know what the tally is up to now, and it isn't exactly swinging in favour of our parliamentarians.

This is democracy, FF style.

Monty Burnz

The Economist - foreign media source - does anyone know what they were saying about Ireland during the bubble?

RoundyMooney

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The Economist - foreign media source - does anyone know what they were saying about Ireland during the bubble?

Yep:

Can it last? (2004):http://www.economist.com/node/3261071

Property slump coming? (2007): http://www.economist.com/node/9968857

The rest of what I found was limited to the price of art, the success of FF, and an article from October 14, 2004, where the tagline was, "What Eastern Europe Can Learn from Ireland".

So, overall, nothing too prophetic, I have to say.

Ulysses Gaze

Look....Pravda RTE are a joke. Difficult to believe anything that is fed to us from them. Kid gloves approach with most politicians from FF.

Remember this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgzhRxRMB_U

Mister men

Surprised people even watch the RTE news tbh anymore. I try to avoid it at all costs but it's good for a giggle sometimes.

Monty Burnz

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Look....Pravda RTE are a joke. Difficult to believe anything that is fed to us from them. Kid gloves approach with most politicians from FF.

Remember this?

How amusing. A grovelling apology to Cowen for showing satirical pictures of him slipped into a gallery, followed by a guy resigning from the incredibly dodgy DDA for taking advantage of a tax loophole. FF really have a problem on principle with developers paying any tax, don't they? You have to admire the way they stand up for the oppressed rich.

Dudess

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I believe he was referring to the control of the media, not to freedom of speech. And I thought it was pretty clear that he was referring to the media to be honest.

It's not as if we have no way of finding stuff out (it isn't China where people are left totally in the dark) or as if we won't find out eventually, or as if journalists are disappearing.

Monty Burnz

Dudess wrote: »

It's not as if we have no way of finding stuff out (it isn't China where people are left totally in the dark) or as if we won't find out eventually, or as if journalists are disappearing.

Dudess, I don't mean to patronise you, but if you knew how the media in this country really worked, I think you'd be amazed and disgusted. I dabbled in the industry, and I have friends who work there still. Here are some problems:

1. The journalists do not understand what they are reporting on
2. The government will not give pertinent information or answer questions they do not like
3. The journalists are not motivated to ask hard questions as their access to senior government figures (required to do their jobs) will dry up if they do
4. The libel laws are so restrictive here you practically need a signed confession before you can point out that a politician has acted in a dubious manner
5. If you get sued for libel, you will lose and your career is more or less finished
6. Most journalists just repeat what they are told by government press agents; the concept of investigative journalism appears to be unkown here (can you imagine the amount of stuff that went uninvestigated from 2000-2009 WRT Anglo, AIB, BOI and FF?)
7. The organisations that journalists work for have political agendas (RTE & Independent pro-FF for years (RTE simply favour government parties), Daily Mail anti-government etc etc) which restricts both what they report and how they report it.

There's more, but that will do for now.

RockinRolla

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Dudess, I don't mean to patronise you, but if you knew how the media in this country really worked, I think you'd be amazed and disgusted. I dabbled in the industry, and I have friends who work there still. Here are some problems:

1. The journalists do not understand what they are reporting on
2. The government will not give pertinent information or answer questions they do not like
3. The journalists are not motivated to ask hard questions as their access to senior government figures (required to do their jobs) will dry up if they do
4. The libel laws are so restrictive here you practically need a signed confession before you can point out that a politician has acted in a dubious manner
5. If you get sued for libel, you will lose and your career is more or less finished
6. Most journalists just repeat what they are told by government press agents; the concept of investigative journalism appears to be unkown here (can you imagine the amount of stuff that went uninvestigated from 2000-2009 WRT Anglo, AIB, BOI and FF?)
7. The organisations that journalists work for have political agendas (RTE & Independent pro-FF for years (RTE simply favour government parties), Daily Mail anti-government etc etc) which restricts both what they report and how they report it.

There's more, but that will do for now.

Thats quite sickening to be honest and very worrying.

Dudess

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Dudess, I don't mean to patronise you, but if you knew how the media in this country really worked, I think you'd be amazed and disgusted. I dabbled in the industry, and I have friends who work there still. Here are some problems:

1. The journalists do not understand what they are reporting on
2. The government will not give pertinent information or answer questions they do not like
3. The journalists are not motivated to ask hard questions as their access to senior government figures (required to do their jobs) will dry up if they do
4. The libel laws are so restrictive here you practically need a signed confession before you can point out that a politician has acted in a dubious manner
5. If you get sued for libel, you will lose and your career is more or less finished
6. Most journalists just repeat what they are told by government press agents; the concept of investigative journalism appears to be unkown here (can you imagine the amount of stuff that went uninvestigated from 2000-2009 WRT Anglo, AIB, BOI and FF?)
7. The organisations that journalists work for have political agendas (RTE & Independent pro-FF for years (RTE simply favour government parties), Daily Mail anti-government etc etc) which restricts both what they report and how they report it.

There's more, but that will do for now.

Dabbled in it myself - worked in radio and regularly encountered barriers from people who only wanted to talk about certain stuff, wouldn't talk about other stuff. To me, it wasn't worrying - just the way things always have been. In an ideal world, every media organisation would be agenda-free but that's not how things go when you have the likes of opinion columns.

Monty Burnz

Dudess wrote: »

Dabbled in it myself - worked in radio and regularly encountered barriers from people who only wanted to talk about certain stuff, wouldn't talk about other stuff. To me, it wasn't worrying - just the way things always have been. In an ideal world, every media organisation would be agenda-free but that's not how things go when you have the likes of opinion columns.

Right - but what about the points I made other than the agendas of media outlets? Do you think the press in general did a good job of informing the populace about the bubble? And investigating the corruption and incompetence of the banks, and the massive incompetence/corruption of Fianna Fail?

Ulysses Gaze

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Right - but what about the points I made other than the agendas of media outlets? Do you think the press in general did a good job of informing the populace about the bubble? And investigating the corruption and incompetence of the banks, and the massive incompetence/corruption of Fianna Fail?

Well...advertisments from Property Supplements were huge cash cows for the Papers so not bloody likely they were going to inform the populace about the bubble! Irish Times spent was it €50 million on myhome.ie? again they had a vested interest in keeping the bubble going.

O'Reilly and INM are pro-FF anti-Sinn fein - so little in the way of investigative journalism there in terms of outing FF Corruption.

And as for Pravda:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obnGVSf6-gA

Oh and 2 minutes in here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvJbddjYzXg

SugarHigh

Dudess wrote: »

It's not as if we have no way of finding stuff out (it isn't China where people are left totally in the dark) or as if we won't find out eventually, or as if journalists are disappearing.

That's a pretty dumb opinion. That's like saying it doesn't matter if the HSE is **** because you can always go private. RTE is a STATE broadcaster and has a duty to inform the state unlike other broadcasters who only have to please their shareholders.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

I don't get the grief with libel laws, they're very necessary and anyone would be thankful if it was your name being dragged through the mud by an 'undisclosed source' with no backup

Helix

RockinRolla wrote: »

Until now, I never realised what it was like to be in some banana republic where the media was controlled by the government. Ireland in 2010 is comparable to the USSR pre 1989 where we have to depend on foreign news sources to understand whats happening in our own country!

its the same in every country

america is the worst of all

Clawdeeus

Helix wrote: »

its the same in every country

america is the worst of all

Their channels are a joke (then again everyones is), their print media (Newsweek, Time, Economist, NY Times, WSJ) are probablly the best for world affairs and analysis.

Everyone has an angle though, Ireland is no better or worse in that.

Incidently, most read article on the Wall Street Journal; http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703560504575612593174135232.html?mod=WSJ_hp_us_mostpop_read

We are boned.