Do you feel men tend to view women as sex objects, less as people?

Freiheit

Just noticed in a few instances of late how women seem to be portrayed and spoken of in this manner.

I don't want to generalise and say that all or even a majority of men are of this ilk....but feel it's fairly pervasive.

And if you do feel this to be true does it bother you?.

Danke alle
F

Fluorescence

I can't honestly say it's something I've noticed. I mean, a lot of guys may make a bit of a joke out of it but I don't think that many are actually chauvinist, sexist or view women solely as sex objects. Those that do wouldn't be the kind I hang around with anyway.

honru

Just noticed in a few instances of late how women seem to be portrayed and spoken of in this manner.

Care to share some examples?

SugarHigh

I'd view some women walking down the street who I don't know as sex objects, without caring what they are like as people. If that counts as being sexist then tbh I'm fine with that.

Fluorescence

Sugarhigh - I think everyone does that to some extent. Random people you see going down the street and thinking "Yeah, they're good-looking" or "Wow they're really attractive!" and stuff like that. I don't think that's what the OP meant though?

Maguined

I view people solely on my levels of interaction with them.

The less I know them or are less likely to interact with them the less I care about them as a person, I do not view them as any less of a human being with rights compared to myself, merely that I do not care about who they are as individuals.

As a result I often look at women purely based on their physical appearance and their attractiveness as I am never going to interact with them enough to find out anything more than that.

Similarly I only judge men by my levels of interaction, the man sitting next to me on the bus stop is a human being with hopes, aspirations, personality, family, morals and everything else but the only thing I care about him is how much of my leg room is he going to hinder.

The only ones I judge as less as people are scumbags like junkies assaulting people and stealing and generally being nothing but a curse upon society.

liah

It depends on the guy tbh. I think the way they process attraction is different, or it's just I'm different.

For example, if I notice someone I'm attracted to of the opposite gender I never make the immediate leap to sexualisation. It's more of an.. appreciation? Acknowledgement? "well hey, you're attractive" sort of thing? Not entirely sure how to describe it.. but I never seem to go from there to sexual thoughts unless I've at least heard them speak.

Most of my male friends (at least, from the way they talk about it) seem to immediately associate attractiveness with sexual ideas. I could be totally wrong on this, I've never really asked any of them about "how" they view attraction as it's never come up. It's just all I've been able to surmise from the way women are colloquially discussed.

I also don't know if I think the way any other women think, I don't have many female friends to provide reference.

Curious if there's trends though.

Silverfish

I think perhaps the OP is specifically asking women.

If the lads would like to discuss whether they and other men view women as sex objects, or feel viewed as sex objects themselves, perhaps TGC would be more suitable.

But this is a thread asking a question of women in a forum for women, so let's let the ladies reply before jumping in.

Thanks.

Truley

'Sex object' is a rather misleading or emotionallly laden term. If a guy looks at an attractive girl either on tv or in real life and thinks of her in a sexual way, then sure, he's seeing her as a 'sex object.' But what does that mean? It's not necessarily negative. It doesn't mean he sees her as any 'less a person' as the next random guy on the street.

SugarHigh

liah wrote: »

It depends on the guy tbh. I think the way they process attraction is different, or it's just I'm different.

For example, if I notice someone I'm attracted to of the opposite gender I never make the immediate leap to sexualisation. It's more of an.. appreciation? Acknowledgement? "well hey, you're attractive" sort of thing? Not entirely sure how to describe it.. but I never seem to go from there to sexual thoughts unless I've at least heard them speak.

Most of my male friends (at least, from the way they talk about it) seem to immediately associate attractiveness with sexual ideas. I could be totally wrong on this, I've never really asked any of them about "how" they view attraction as it's never come up. It's just all I've been able to surmise from the way women are colloquially discussed.

I also don't know if I think the way any other women think, I don't have many female friends to provide reference.

Curious if there's trends though.

I'd say your wrong, it's mostly not a sexual thing. I'd the same thing if I seen an attractive man (not as often) but I wouldn't have interest in having sex with him.

liah

SugarHigh wrote: »

I'd say your wrong, it's mostly not a sexual thing. I'd the same thing if I seen an attractive man (not as often) but I wouldn't have interest in having sex with him.

I'd appreciate an attractive man the same way as I'd appreciate an attractive woman.. or a sunset, or any other thing I find to be pleasant to look at. e.g. I'd walk by and think "wow, he's nice-looking" and I'd forget about it, completely. Is it the same way for men? Or anyone else, even?

For me the actual sexual part of the attraction doesn't come into play unless I talk to them. I'm working on the assumption that that way's normal, but again, the way guys talk colloquially has always made me wonder about it.

EDIT: Actually, I probably am just weird with this one. I could never wrap my head around porn, either..

Catari Jaguar

f®eak s©enery wrote: »

Care to share some examples?

In the past few days - The student teachers bikini shoot, the PWC emails

SugarHigh

liah wrote: »

I'd appreciate an attractive man the same way as I'd appreciate an attractive woman.. or a sunset, or any other thing I find to be pleasant to look at. e.g. I'd walk by and think "wow, he's nice-looking" and I'd forget about it, completely. Is it the same way for men? Or anyone else, even?

For me the actual sexual part of the attraction doesn't come into play unless I talk to them. I'm working on the assumption that that way's normal, but again, the way guys talk colloquially has always made me wonder about it.

EDIT: Actually, I probably am just weird with this one. I could never wrap my head around porn, either..

I don't think that's anything unique. If you heard someone say they could eat a horse would you expect them to?

Fluorescence

Maguined wrote: »

I view people solely on my levels of interaction with them.

The less I know them or are less likely to interact with them the less I care about them as a person, I do not view them as any less of a human being with rights compared to myself, merely that I do not care about who they are as individuals.

As a result I often look at women purely based on their physical appearance and their attractiveness as I am never going to interact with them enough to find out anything more than that.

Similarly I only judge men by my levels of interaction, the man sitting next to me on the bus stop is a human being with hopes, aspirations, personality, family, morals and everything else but the only thing I care about him is how much of my leg room is he going to hinder.

The only ones I judge as less as people are scumbags like junkies assaulting people and stealing and generally being nothing but a curse upon society.

Best answer in this thread, and most likely true for most people.

almostnever

liah wrote: »

I'd appreciate an attractive man the same way as I'd appreciate an attractive woman.. or a sunset, or any other thing I find to be pleasant to look at. e.g. I'd walk by and think "wow, he's nice-looking" and I'd forget about it, completely. Is it the same way for men? Or anyone else, even?

For me the actual sexual part of the attraction doesn't come into play unless I talk to them. I'm working on the assumption that that way's normal, but again, the way guys talk colloquially has always made me wonder about it.

That's exactly the way I am too.

On topic: I don't think in my normal, daily interactions I've been made to feel objectified in a sexual way.

I am a friend

I do agree that men treat women as sex objects, less as people especially if the woman in question is attractive..

Typically (and before anyone jumps down my neck, there are always exceptions) men would have a pretty standard view on whether or not a particular woman is attractive and I have found its easier for them to agree on this that women on a male.. I do think that if a woman is attractive they see that aspect of her first and its takes precedence over anything else e.g. her education, what she says etc

I have a pretty difficult job which involves having plenty of hard conversations with customers and non customers but i think its easier for me dealing with men than for my male colleagues... I think men see me as a woman before they see me as my job....

Freiheit

The Price Waterhouse Cooper incident is an example of this... . Interesting how a friend of mine seems happy to play this role, most women I know are not. Sadly slightly off topic she appears to view him (her partner) as one too,saying that she'l leave him if he goes bald or becomes overweight.

starlit

Yes, I've always noticed it. It grates on my nerves though sometimes if they make a joke to my face that I would find quiet insulting, I laugh it off, but I do wonder what went through that guys mind to have a reason for him to say such a thing to me (whether sexist or seeing me or another girl as an object etc) that might include me or another girl I know or a girl that might pass by a few lads, I'd hear what they might say. I just feel like saying to them to just grow up and act their age. It doesn't matter how old guys are whether mature or not they will still act silly when it comes to girls thinking it will get the girl in the end which may or may not always happen, depends on the girl!

Ectoplasm

No I don't really think so. I think 'sex object' is a fairly specific term and finding a woman attractive is not what I would consider seeing a woman as a sex object. Any man who sees women only as sex objects and not as people has some pretty serious issues and I really don't think there are too many men like this around.

I think men can do this - and sometimes I think they are actively encouraged to do it by various media; a page three girl is put there so that men (and women who enjoy that sorta thing) can look at the pretty girl, not consider what she is like as a person. Porn is another example but then it's designed that way and both men and women view porn. It's a little bit sad also how often the media paint men as neanderthals who are driven by sex and nothing else. That's not an accurate representation of the men in my life and I know some of them resent this kind of portrayal of men as so two dimensional.

I do think that a lot of men will notice a womans attractiveness before anything else registers - but I'm a woman and this happens to me too.
I suppose it depends on what you mean by seeing women as sex objects and less as people - if it is based on first glances, brief encounters etc. I think it's pretty harmless and also pretty normal. If you are talking about a general mindset, where a guy doesn't see any women as anything other than a sex object, well then, that's a serious problem but not something that men in general do.

Faith

I don't think it's fair to blame men for doing this, when women do it just as much. I work in a place where women serve customers out front and there's men working in the store room. All of us women have a list of our favourite store boys; in what order we'd choose to have sex with them; who has the best body; who's the least attractive; etc. And we are not even particularly discreet about it. If one of the hotter guys is around, we all constantly make innuendoes, touch him, invite him home with us... Everyone knows it's in jest, girls and guys. We're all constantly laughing while we do it, and the guys love the attention. But if a stranger observed our behaviour, they'd probably be shocked.

It's just a fact of life that humans judge others immediately on the basis of their appearance. Our views of people are often strongly influenced by their physical appearance. I'm as guilty of any man of looking at a person of the opposite sex and making them into a sex object. As long as it doesn't cross the line, or make the person uncomfortable, I don't see the problem. A "sex object" isn't necessarily a negative thing - it's just thinking of a person in sexualised terms. It only becomes a problem when a person is incapable of separating sexual desire from the actual person.

JimmyCrackCorn

Starting a debate on sexism by referring to the opposite sex (men) as a generalisation

The answer to your actual question is yes a large group of men do objectify women to the point where they are just a sexual object. You should probably try to avoid that group of men:D

LittleBook

I always think these kind of discussions can benefit from a bit of definition. So from Dictionary.com:

Sex object
noun
- a person viewed as being of little interest or merit beyond the potential for providing sexual gratification.

Gerry Manderer

Faith wrote: »

I don't think it's fair to blame men for doing this, when women do it just as much. I work in a place where women serve customers out front and there's men working in the store room. All of us women have a list of our favourite store boys; in what order we'd choose to have sex with them; who has the best body; who's the least attractive; etc. And we are not even particularly discreet about it. If one of the hotter guys is around, we all constantly make innuendoes, touch him, invite him home with us... Everyone knows it's in jest, girls and guys. We're all constantly laughing while we do it, and the guys love the attention. But if a stranger observed our behaviour, they'd probably be shocked.

It's just a fact of life that humans judge others immediately on the basis of their appearance. Our views of people are often strongly influenced by their physical appearance. I'm as guilty of any man of looking at a person of the opposite sex and making them into a sex object. As long as it doesn't cross the line, or make the person uncomfortable, I don't see the problem. A "sex object" isn't necessarily a negative thing - it's just thinking of a person in sexualised terms. It only becomes a problem when a person is incapable of separating sexual desire from the actual person.

Sexual harrassment. If the roles were reversed would it be considered ok?

God the hypocrisy, touching someone up is not crossing a line??!

cdaly_

Gerry Manderer wrote: »

Sexual harrassment. If the roles were reversed would it be considered ok?

God the hypocrisy, touching someone up is not crossing a line??!

Sexual harassment in the workplace is any form of unwelcome sexual attention...

If it's mutually understood between colleagues and is not unwelcome, then it's not harassment. OTOH, It has to be the case that it would cease if any party indicated that it was unwelcome.

Good question on the role reversal. OP?

Gerry Manderer

cdaly_ wrote: »

Sexual harassment in the workplace is any form of unwelcome sexual attention...

If it's mutually understood between colleagues and is not unwelcome, then it's not harassment

Ok but where in the scenario does it indicate that the behaviour is "welcomed"

Why is it because it is a man being treated this way that you would automatically assume that it it is not unwelcome?

Whether or not the person considers it harassment or not is irrelevant, it should be judged objectively as opposed to subjectively

Faith

Gerry Manderer wrote: »

Ok but where in the scenario does it indicate that the behaviour is "welcomed"

You bolded it yourself. The "everybody knows it's in jest" line signified that the behaviour is welcomed. The men in question have never, ever indicated that they're uncomfortable with it, and in fact actively play along with us.

Re: role reversal, that was the whole point. The OP asked if men view women as sex objects; I pointed out that it easily works both ways. In my work place, it often does run both ways.

Gerry Manderer

Faith wrote: »

You bolded it yourself. The "everybody knows it's in jest" line signified that the behaviour is welcomed. The men in question have never, ever indicated that they're uncomfortable with it, and in fact actively play along with us.

Re: role reversal, that was the whole point. The OP asked if men view women as sex objects; I pointed out that it easily works both ways. In my work place, it often does run both ways.

Ok then by that logic, if the girls in PWC were Ok with the emails (to refer to a recent news topic) that were set around rating them, then only the ones that were offended by it are justifiably entitled to consider it sexual harrassment/inappropriate?

Faith

Gerry Manderer wrote: »

Ok then by that logic, if the girls in PWC were Ok with the emails (to refer to a recent news topic) that were set around rating them, then only the ones that were offended by it are justifiably entitled to consider it sexual harrassment/inappropriate?

If the girls hypothetically knew about this rating, and were happy with it, then it would be hypocritical to claim that it was inappropriate, yes.

You seem to keep missing the definition that cdaly_ so kindly posted, so I'll quote it for you:

cdaly_ wrote: »

Sexual harassment in the workplace is any form of unwelcome sexual attention...

If it's mutually understood between colleagues and is not unwelcome, then it's not harassment. OTOH, It has to be the case that it would cease if any party indicated that it was unwelcome.

So as long as the attention is not unwelcome, then it's not harrassment.

Gerry Manderer

No, I read the definition and i'll reiterate the point I made in response to the definition


Whether or not the person considers it harassment or not is irrelevant, it should be judged objectively as opposed to subjectively

Dudess

Faith wrote: »

All of us women have a list of our favourite store boys; in what order we'd choose to have sex with them; who has the best body; who's the least attractive; etc. And we are not even particularly discreet about it.

Do they know about the lists? I'm sorry but I find that kinda underhand and teenage - if it's literally a list each.

Women being leery, like a bunch of them at a strip show - I don't see much of that behaviour in my social circles at all. Ditto men.

Gerry Manderer

It's sexual harrassment, simple as, but because it is directed towards males as opposed to females its considered to be just a laugh which is the point I was trying to make