Green Senator Ó Brolcháin - Boards.ie responsible for public hysteria over recession

galwayrush

hallelujajordan wrote: »

His job is to represent all of the people, not just the boardsies. It is conceivable that he reads your concerns, takes them on board but disagrees with them ?

As a green, looks like his job is to read our concerns, and totally disregard them if they are not similar to his green agenda.:rolleyes:

K-9

hallelujajordan wrote: »

The one I quoted, where you were representing "the people". For the record, I have no problem with posting criticism or complaint, however vitriolic it might sometimes get but I do take issue with those who (without any mandate whatsoever) claim to represent the "man on the street"

The "silent majority". LOL.

When posters start saying that I automatically think of "voices in my head".

paulaa

hallelujajordan wrote: »

The one I quoted, where you were representing "the people". For the record, I have no problem with posting criticism or complaint, however vitriolic it might sometimes get but I do take issue with those who (without any mandate whatsoever) claim to represent the "man on the street"

Where in my post below did I say I represented anyone or any thing other that my own opinion ? I think you're a bit mixed up. Several other people had expressed the same before me, why pick on my post? A hangover from the last debate we had maybe lol.

Do you deny that the people of this country are angry at the mess that FF and their sidekicks have gotten us into ?

Hysteria or not, it wouldn't dawn on the esteemed Senator that the Irish public are extremely angry with the mess the politicians have made of this country. Like his TD colleagues, he is trying to place blame for this on others, anyone but where the real fault lies.

They need to come down from their insulated, gold plated ivory towers and realise the depth of feeling in this country atm.

Scofflaw

galwayrush wrote: »

As a green, looks like his job is to read our concerns, and totally disregard them if they are not similar to his green agenda.:rolleyes:

Not totally, but otherwise that's pretty much what any policy-driven party does. The opposite is populism, where you only act on the basis of what people's concerns du jour are, and that's where you get Fianna Fáil from.

cordially,
Scofflaw

skelliser

hallelujajordan wrote: »

His job is to represent all of the people, not just the boardsies. It is conceivable that he reads your concerns, takes them on board but disagrees with them ?

I would just like to add that Senator O Broilachain doesnt represent anyone not even the people of Galway.

You see, we the people of Galway have rejected him three times, 2002 and 2007 general elections and the 2009 local elections.

And what reward did he get?
a nice seat in the seanad and 70k a year plus expenses!

meditraitor

skelliser wrote: »

You see, we the people of Galway have rejected him three times, 2002 and 2007 general elections and the 2009 local elections.

+1,000,000...... he is a no-one

galwayrush

skelliser wrote: »

I would just like to add that Senator O Broilachain doesnt represent anyone not even the people of Galway.

You see, we the people of Galway have rejected him three times, 2002 and 2007 general elections and the 2009 local elections.

And what reward did he get?
a nice seat in the seanad and 70k a year plus expenses!

No wonder we are ****ed.

SeaFields

I only saw this thread now. I deal with the public everyday in retail and I can tell ye that the worry out there is NOT confined to the boards mentioned by Senator Brolchain.

Jesus, that statement mad me very mad. I will have a discussion everyday I'm working (not instigated by myself may I add) on how bad things are. People are very very worried and not once has our government come out and communicated this to us, as citizens. They have answered questions in the Dail, questions by politicians, and to those lucky enough to be in a chamber of commerce meeting.

He wants to know about public worry over the recession? How bout the look on Noonan and Burtons faces when they came out of Merrion st. and had their briefings with the dept of finance officials. Jaw dropping was an understatement.

Maybe the Senetor should also criticise BBC and Reuters tonight who are reporting on secret negotiations on our bailout by the EU.

Scofflaw

Maybe the Senetor should also criticise BBC and Reuters tonight who are reporting on secret negotiations on our bailout by the EU.

Slightly more accurately, are making unverified claims that we're in secret negotiations. Again, that's not the same as saying we're not, but that the claim that we are is only really rumour-mongering at this stage.

cordially,
Scofflaw

skelliser

Scofflaw wrote: »

Slightly more accurately, are making unverified claims that we're in secret negotiations. Again, that's not the same as saying we're not, but that the claim that we are is only really rumour-mongering at this stage.

cordially,
Scofflaw

well the FT, bloomberg, and tomorrows SBP are reporting that we are.
and the WSJ as well iirc.
I think we can say we are at this stage regardless of whatever spin FF apply.

My name is URL

skelliser wrote: »

well the FT, bloomberg, and tomorrows SBP are reporting that we are.
and the WSJ as well iirc.
I think we can say we are at this stage regardless of whatever spin FF apply.

Do any of them mention who exactly is saying it?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1113/economy.html

Note the last sentence in that report.

SeaFields

Scofflaw wrote: »

Slightly more accurately, are making unverified claims that we're in secret negotiations. Again, that's not the same as saying we're not, but that the claim that we are is only really rumour-mongering at this stage.

cordially,
Scofflaw

yeah but the point of the thread is that "hysteria" is due to discussion on a public internet board including this one. What I was saying is that, true or not, BBC and Reuters, and followed up by another poster, Bloomberg and Sunday Business Post, are reporting on secret negotiating.

So the point stands. This "hysteria" as he calls it or the worrying that everyone else calls it, has other origins other than internet forums.

And I, as an ordinary member of the public, like most of us, can only go on what we see on the news and what we read in the papers. The communication from the government has be poor at best.

Scofflaw

skelliser wrote: »

well the FT, bloomberg, and tomorrows SBP are reporting that we are.
and the WSJ as well iirc.
I think we can say we are at this stage regardless of whatever spin FF apply.

I don't think that makes the slightest bit of difference, since they're largely reporting each other. No matter how often a rumour is repeated, it remains a rumour until somebody actually substantiates it.

After all, virtually every media outlet in the world has at some point carried a story on rumours that Elvis was still alive (and on UFOs, and so on). The UK and the Murdoch-owned media regularly carry stories that are entirely made up - there was a particularly good one a couple of years back about the banning of cake sales at fairs and markets "as the result of an EU Directive". Completely made up, even to the comments supposedly by the Scottish Womens' Institute - but other papers carried the story, and phoned people to get outraged comments from them on the basis of the made-up story, which they gave, and which provided fresh legs for the story, because every local paper had a local dignitary that could be relied on to be shocked and condemnatory. Even the issuing of a press statement by the Scottish Women's Institute saying that the whole thing was complete fiction didn't kill that story.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

SeaFields wrote: »

yeah but the point of the thread is that "hysteria" is due to discussion on a public internet board including this one. What I was saying is that, true or not, BBC and Reuters, and followed up by another poster, Bloomberg and Sunday Business Post, are reporting on secret negotiating.

So the point stands. This "hysteria" as he calls it or the worrying that everyone else calls it, has other origins other than internet forums.

And I, as an ordinary member of the public, like most of us, can only go on what we see on the news and what we read in the papers. The communication from the government has be poor at best.

I don't disagree with that - see my comments on the O'Brollchain thread. Speaking from experience of moderating forums, though, he's right that you can easily get groupthink going, and that can help turn worry into hysteria, and hysteria into panic - and by those I do mean 'hysteria' and 'panic', rather than just concern and worry. And I'd add that the rolling 24-hour news cycle we now have, with media feeding largely off media, is a factor too.

The point I'm making, I suppose, is that there's a level of worry where you take rumours on board as rumours, but your primary decision-making basis is what you see actually happening. Then there's a whole other level where the worry becomes irrational, where negative rumours are treated as solid facts while anything positive is ignored - even though the rumours aren't substantiated, and even where several rumours have actually proven untrue, such as the IMF one from earlier in the week. Discussion forums seem particularly prone to the latter.

cordially,
Scofflaw

K-9

Scofflaw wrote: »

I don't think that makes the slightest bit of difference, since they're largely reporting each other. No matter how often a rumour is repeated, it remains a rumour until somebody actually substantiates it.

After all, virtually every media outlet in the world has at some point carried a story on rumours that Elvis was still alive (and on UFOs, and so on). The UK and the Murdoch-owned media regularly carry stories that are entirely made up - there was a particularly good one a couple of years back about the banning of cake sales at fairs and markets "as the result of an EU Directive". Completely made up, even to the comments supposedly by the Scottish Womens' Institute - but other papers carried the story, and phoned people to get outraged comments from them on the basis of the made-up story, which they gave, and which provided fresh legs for the story, because every local paper had a local dignitary that could be relied on to be shocked and condemnatory. Even the issuing of a press statement by the Scottish Women's Institute saying that the whole thing was complete fiction didn't kill that story.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Completely agree with that.

Still, I'd say it would be negligent of a Govt. atm not to be having talks about the possibility of an EU/IMF interjection.

Given what has gone on over the last 7/8 years, I'd say you could well be correct!

SeaFields

Scofflaw wrote: »

The point I'm making, I suppose, is that there's a level of worry where you take rumours on board as rumours, but your primary decision-making basis is what you see actually happening. Then there's a whole other level where the worry becomes irrational, where negative rumours are treated as solid facts while anything positive is ignored - even though the rumours aren't substantiated, and even where several rumours have actually proven untrue, such as the IMF one from earlier in the week. Discussion forums seem particularly prone to the latter.

Thanks, yes, thats the point I was making. And I suppose, being a mod of a politics/ Irish economy board, you are going to have a much better basis to make a critical assessment of what you hear/see/read. Others are not going to have that knowledge ( and I am not patronising the "others" part - I include myself in it). As I said, our understanding is going to come from that same media. Lots of people are going to wake up tomorrow, sit down with there morning coffee and read (probably in a lot of the national newspapers going by tonights reporting) that we are negotiating a bailout - in secret.

Perhaps if we get that general election that the "experts" are muting will happen, one of the first things that the new Taoiseach should do (and follow it up regularly) is to come out and tell us exactly where we are, without the bullsh!t (maybe easier for a new leader). Wishful thinking I suspect.

hallelujajordan

paulaa wrote: »

Where in my post below did I say I represented anyone or any thing other that my own opinion ? I think you're a bit mixed up. Several other people had expressed the same before me, why pick on my post? A hangover from the last debate we had maybe lol.

Not sure I was picking on you particularly . . just the first post that I read that seemed to be trying to represent more than just a personal opinion . .

I've highlighted the bits for you . .

paulaa wrote:

Hysteria or not, it wouldn't dawn on the esteemed Senator that the Irish public are extremely angry with the mess the politicians have made of this country. Like his TD colleagues, he is trying to place blame for this on others, anyone but where the real fault lies.

They need to come down from their insulated, gold plated ivory towers and realise the depth of feeling in this country atm.

paulaa wrote:

Do you deny that the people of this country are angry at the mess that FF and their sidekicks have gotten us into ?

I don't know . . I dont (can't) speak for "the people of this country". I know that some people are angry because I read their posts but the muted reaction to organised protests seems to indicate to me that people are more concerned with sorting things out and more or less supportive of Lenihans statement that "anger is not a policy" . .

paulaa

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I don't know . . I dont (can't) speak for "the people of this country". I know that some people are angry because I read their posts but the muted reaction to organised protests seems to indicate to me that people are more concerned with sorting things out and more or less supportive of Lenihans statement that "anger is not a policy" . .

You "read" reactions here but do you ever actually speak to ordinary people in the real world, outside of Cuman meetings, about this whole situation ? If you did you would realise the anger and the complete feelings of helplessness and powerlesness to do anything.

You will probably find that yourself when you're knocking on doors in the next few weeks.


As to supporting Lenihan's policy, which one ? This week's. last week's or last month's ?

IRISHREDSTAR

Nearly all theatres in Ireland are run by FF for years they have controlled art, radio, TV all funded by the peoples taxes.
Now Cowen is ragging fury at BBC over reports made about Ireland's bailout.
I just wonder is this cheese they plan to hand out to the masses going to be laced with Prozac.

There is no place for fascists in a democracy, the people should rail against this unelected cabbage and against the undemocratic Senate.

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

His job is to represent all of the people, not just the boardsies. It is conceivable that he reads your concerns, takes them on board but disagrees with them ?

Quite possible, since my concerns and opinions would involve fair and transparent expenses that were actually expenses, for a start. I'm sure he disagrees with that because it'd hit his overpaid pocket and doesn't suit his agenda.

So, since my opinions and concerns ask for fairness, accountability and not making it impossible for ordinary people to have a life in this country while letting others off with millions in payouts, he might disagree with that too based on his own agenda.

A certain Ahern that you used to like also dismissed what he called "scaremongering" and we know where that ignorance got us.

Mind you, I do find it interesting when government supporters complain about panic and scaremongering; we only have their word for it that the world would have collapsed if Lenihan & Cowen hadn't signed up there and then to the bank guarantee.

I guess scaremongering is only acceptable when it toes the government line.

From the same Senator
http://greenparty.newsweaver.ie/c1caw0ef5s7nagng2rkjst

dear lord!! Abolish or reform the senate its undemocratic

hallelujajordan

paulaa wrote: »

You "read" reactions here but do you ever actually speak to ordinary people in the real world, outside of Cuman meetings, about this whole situation ? If you did you would realise the anger and the complete feelings of helplessness and powerlesness to do anything.

You will probably find that yourself when you're knocking on doors in the next few weeks.


As to supporting Lenihan's policy, which one ? This week's. last week's or last month's ?

Yes, I do speak to people but I don't speak for people (or claim to) . . . and I have spoken to many supportive people . . I have also spoken to many angry people . . I have also spoken to angry people who are themselves culpable for their own situations but prefer to blame the establishment . .

Look, I'm not claiming that people are not angry; to make such a claim would be a contradiction of the argument I am putting forward. I am simply saying that I am fed up with the number of posters on here who think they represent the views of "the people", "the man on the street", "joe public" . . unless someone has elected you to, you really can only represent your own opinion and that was part of what the senator was saying.

yoshytoshy

hallelujajordan wrote: »

unless someone has elected you to, you really can only represent your own opinion and that was part of what the senator was saying.

Thats the problem with this country ,we've got a government who lied through their back teeth to get elected.
They don't represent the people of Ireland.

paulaa

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Yes, I do speak to people but I don't speak for people (or claim to) . . . and I have spoken to many supportive people . . I have also spoken to many angry people . . I have also spoken to angry people who are themselves culpable for their own situations but prefer to blame the establishment . .

Look, I'm not claiming that people are not angry; to make such a claim would be a contradiction of the argument I am putting forward. I am simply saying that I am fed up with the number of posters on here who think they represent the views of "the people", "the man on the street", "joe public" . . unless someone has elected you to, you really can only represent your own opinion and that was part of what the senator was saying.

I don't see many on here thinking that they speak for anyone but themselves. The posters here are from all parts of the country and beyond. They speak to people everyday in work, at home, in the pub etc and I'm sure they can gauge the mood of those they're speaking to.

Since the Senator wasn't elected to represent anyone I would treat his attempts to stifle discussion with the same cynicism I do the party lackeys (all parties) that try to do the same here and on other forums.

If you're so fed up reading people's opinions here you can always switch off your computer. Simple

flutered

paulaa wrote: »

I don't see many on here thinking that they speak for anyone but themselves. The posters here are from all parts of the country and beyond. They speak to people everyday in work, at home, in the pub etc and I'm sure they can gauge the mood of those they're speaking to.

Since the Senator wasn't elected to represent anyone I would treat his attempts to stifle discussion with the same cynicism I do the party lackeys (all parties) that try to do the same here and on other forums.

If you're so fed up reading people's opinions here you can always switch off your computer. Simple

or better still just log on the the web pages of goverment tds and senators, a rather famous bard came up with a quote which covers you guys (dff) the truth is often bitter.

Nehaxak

As an outlet for people to openly discuss issues or whatever, Boards excels far more than any media outlet in this country could ever do.
However, it's also fairly anonymous and that hysterical sounding posting from "JennyBigNose" (apologies if there is anyone named that btw) saying the country is going bankrupt tomorrow, might well be the Taoiseach, or indeed Enda Kenny - or just some 12 year old kid.

Saying that, hysteria and continual discussions on "what if" scenarios can lead to world markets getting very edgy. Case in point may be the possibility of European stock markets and the Euro itself taking a dive tomorrow due to general hysteria going around media outlets, particularly so it seems originating and continuing to come from Bloomberg, even on their news ticker running along the bottom of their channel throughout the last few days relating to Ireland.

If you want to destroy a country and it's people, there's a few ways to go about it but one of the easiest is to just destroy them publicly, whether that's via spreading rumours as fact in regards their financial situation or just plain saying they all have AIDS, as some in the US did to Haiti at one stage at the height of the fears surrounding AIDS itself as it first emerged - the country honestly never recovered from that for a long long time, as much as what else had gone on since.

It may have gone too far this time and Ireland may be left with no choice but to now accept EU funding in some sort of bail out one way or the other, if anything just to calm not just the EU but international markets - even if we can survive and sort out our own mess regardless, without such funding being required.

We shall see anyway.

paulaa

If the Government had been keeping us informed with real facts and figures on a regular basis a lot of the fear and rumour would be minimised. Instead they gave us the mushroom treatment, it seems, because they hadn't a clue themselves.

ei.sdraob

The senator doesn't like the message he is hearing from the proles so he blames the messenger.

Why doesn't he, the Greens and the Listening Party do the country a favour and go and commit collective harakiri :mad:

DeVore

wow....

The senator doesnt count the many people with mental illness we have helped with the PI forums.

Or the fact that I posted this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055911944 trying to explain to people that burning our own house is not a good idea.

Or that we have diligently removed the "bank X is about to fail" threads.

Or perhaps he missed when his own party colleague, Mr Gogarty, debated on this very site?

No, its all our fault. I'm sick of being the messenger and I'm sick of being shot. :rolleyes:

DeV.