PWC - Accountants brought to book over raunchy emails - See mod note post 7.

Millicent

Foxtrol wrote: »

You talk to one colleague but it could be overheard by someone else. Thats exactly what happened here. These lads were having what they naively thought was a private chat but it was forwarded on.

Okay, maybe this email is overblown in my head, but was there not a ratings system/pictures attached? That seems a bit too systematic for a casual chat to me. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm basing this on what I've read so far.

BaZmO*

amdublin wrote: »

What does clunge/klunge actually mean I've never heard this word before in my life! (Or am I being naive??)

It's a derogatory term for a female lady garden, like snatch or fanjita. Totally inappropriate for an internal work email.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

It just horrifies the professional in me!

Hehe

Millicent

Ormus wrote: »

i think the point is that in reality that line is crossed every day in countless conversations by countless office workers.....the level of the sexism/unprofessionalism is not shocking at all.....whats shocking is that they put it in a work email and never stopped to think that it could go viral

I know it is likely crossed in many places but you would agree it is sexist as well as unprofessional?

midlandsmissus

Millicent wrote: »

But besides the whole point of not leaving a trail, would you not agree that this sort of jock culture appears to be inherently sexist? Having a private chat with a friend is not sexist -- it's perfectly normal and natural. But going to the lengths of devising a score system to share with colleagues? That's sexist in the same way Miss World/Universe is.

TBH I have a few male friends and all they EVER talk about is that kind of cr*p above. Women, women, women, who's hottest, who'd get it, which man has the best game, how to get her into bed, blah blah.

It's all they think about, I don't like it, but we're different species altogether!

BTW what has really depressed me about this thread is that "bird" seems to have gotten popular! No, for the love of God, no! Who the f*ck says bird!

Blowfish

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Judging by some accountants who posted on here, there seems to be a bit of a jock culture going on in these firms where this is tradition, and they have become desensitised to what is actually quite serious(using company email for derogoratory comments (clunge)), I'm guessing this jock culture will end today.

Except it's not just the guys who are at this kind of crap. For example.

coffee_cake

Blowfish wrote: »

Except it's not just the guys who are at this kind of crap. For example.

"let's vote on the boys teehee" is a tad different from "new clunge eh"

edit: though it's just as thick in honesty

Blowfish

bluewolf wrote: »

"let's vote on the boys teehee" is a tad different from "new clunge eh"

Rating guys on which one is most likely to sleep his way to the top is any better?

midlandsmissus

Blowfish wrote: »

Except it's not just the guys who are at this kind of crap. For example.

How are people so stupid? :rolleyes:

Here's another new one today : http://goingconcern.com/

Read the top article, some KPMG lads busted now. You have to laugh at this gobsh*te! these emails are showing us women how men really think!

fieldstk

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Does it really go on all the time int hese firms? I would be bricking it to send anything from my work email account, jesus EXPECIALLy anything that could be construed as discrimination/ harassment. How stupid can they be?

How do you know it goes on all the time?

it does go on. more than 2 guys with computers in the one office and add a few female staff and you have it. they cant help themselves

Millicent

midlandsmissus wrote: »

TBH I have a few male friends and all they EVER talk about is that kind of cr*p above. Women, women, women, who's hottest, who'd get it, which man has the best game, how to get her into bed, blah blah.

It's all they think about, I don't like it, but we're different species altogether!

BTW what has really depressed me about this thread is that "bird" seems to have gotten popular! No, for the love of God, no! Who the f*ck says bird!

Men and women aren't different species. I think we can all appreciate somebody's attractiveness but men and women aren't inherently different. Respect and decency is not gender specific and nor is sex drive. Men aren't slaves to their baser instincts, just as women don't need to be ladies.

Tbh, if that's all your male friends can talk about, I don't understand the value of their friendship. Not trying to be rude, but surely that's not all they talk about? They kind of sound a bit sexist, IMO, if that's the scope of their opinion about women.

Blowfish wrote: »

Except it's not just the guys who are at this kind of crap. For example.

And she deserved to be forced out of her job too. That's just sexism against men instead of the other way round here.

midlandsmissus

fieldstk wrote: »

it does go on. more than 2 guys with computers in the one office and add a few female staff and you have it. they cant help themselves

I sometimes wonder how it must feel to be such a slave to sex as a man is....

we have such different mindsets.

Millicent

fieldstk wrote: »

it does go on. more than 2 guys with computers in the one office and add a few female staff and you have it. they cant help themselves

Please tell me that's sarcasm/trolling?

Millicent

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I sometimes wonder how it must feel to be such a slave to sex as a man is....

we have such different mindsets.

*has apoplexy* *head explodes* :eek:

midlandsmissus

Millicent wrote: »

Tbh, if that's all your male friends can talk about, I don't understand the value of their friendship. Not trying to be rude, but surely that's not all they talk about? They kind of sound a bit sexist, IMO, if that's the scope of their opinion about women.

I would have thought this was EXTREMELY common with younger men tbh?

Blowfish

midlandsmissus wrote: »

You have to laugh at this gobsh*te! these emails are showing us women how men really think!

Please don't generalise those idiots to all of us.

coffee_cake

Millicent wrote: »

*has apoplexy* *head explodes* :eek:

You just don't know which is worse :rolleyes:

Millicent

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I would have thought this was EXTREMELY common with younger men tbh?

Um, no. How young are you talking? Anything over 15 (and even those lads I knew at that age got the piss taken out of them by their peers) and no, not IME.

midlandsmissus

Millicent wrote: »

Um, no. How young are you talking? Anything over 15 (and even those lads I knew at that age got the piss taken out of them by their peers) and no, not IME.

Got the piss taken out of them for talking about women? Jesus it's not like that at all round here, it's all non-stop one upmanship,and tring to better each other with their "record". If you don't keep up with the other lads you're "gay", this is still going on with guys I know that are in their late twenties...but then I do live in the country, Ive always thought there was a more sexist culture in the country than in the big cities. Do you live in Dublin?

Joeyjoejoe83

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I sometimes wonder how it must feel to be such a slave to sex as a man is....

we have such different mindsets.

Indeed, its a curse only affecting us men.....oh....hang on, whats this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8049905/Karen-Owen-Duke-students-sex-powerpoint-presentation-goes-viral.html

Wait a minute, another one?!?!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235129/Deloitte-girl-quits-sending-email-asking-colleagues-vote-offices-attractive-men.html

At the end of the day, both sides are guilty of this, these guys just got caught and the over reaction brigade have jumped onboard. They made a mistake, a suspension to them and some compensation to the ladies, with the Herald hopefully getting destroyed in court for printing those pics....to me that is the worst part of this whole story.

midlandsmissus

Joeyjoejoe83 wrote: »

Indeed, its a curse only affecting us men.....oh....hang on, whats this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8049905/Karen-Owen-Duke-students-sex-powerpoint-presentation-goes-viral.html

Wait a minute, another one?!?!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235129/Deloitte-girl-quits-sending-email-asking-colleagues-vote-offices-attractive-men.html

At the end of the day, both sides are guilty of this, these guys just got caught and the over reaction brigade have jumped onboard. They made a mistake, a suspension to them and some compensation to the ladies, with the Herald hopefully getting destroyed in court for printing those pics....to me that is the worst part of this whole story.

I would still say it is infinitely more men who do this than women. Anyway, besides the point. The first lady you used in your exmple there resigned, why do you think the lads should only get suspended?

Pepe LeFrits

The wimin in PWC are absolutely cracking; must've been a good list.

Seosaimh77

Just saw the email. Wasn't as bad as I was expecting but it was still pretty stupid. Idiots.

Millicent

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Got the piss taken out of them for talking about women? Jesus it's not like that at all round here, it's all non-stop one upmanship,and tring to better each other with their "record". If you don't keep up with the other lads you're "gay", this is still going on with guys I know that are in their late twenties...but then I do live in the country, Ive always thought there was a more sexist culture in the country than in the big cities. Do you live in Dublin?

Well see, calling each other "gay" for not objectifying women isn't exactly a winning endorsement for progressiveness! And yeah, that one embarrassing guy who was reminiscent of Jay from the Inbetweeners, talking about the women who were "going to get it," "look at the arse/tits on that", "I'm riding loads" etc. etc. would get the piss ripped out of them by other guys.

And I do live in Dublin, but I'm not from here. I'm thinking of friends in my hometown in the SouthEast when I think of comparisons.

Ormus

Millicent wrote: »

I know it is likely crossed in many places but you would agree it is sexist as well as unprofessional?

i completely agree

but that doesn't mean its shocking or remarkable or worth talking about

the only thing which makes it mildly interesting is that they got caught

Millicent

Ormus wrote: »

i completely agree

but that doesn't mean its shocking or remarkable or worth talking about

the only thing which makes it mildly interesting is that they got caught

Ah, I get you. Perhaps more interesting because of the size/esteem attached to PWC and the manner in which they were caught out. I do think it's still worth talking about if only to see if this sort of behaviour is still indicative of large corporations here.

mikemac

As said, goes on in any big company offices.

Their mistake was getting caught

And to write klunge on an email, that lad would be thrown out the door
I don't see suspensions here, it'll be nothing less then the sack. People get fired for far less then this

Not a disaster, they've lost a reference but maybe they can head to London and get an even better job
And in 10 years they will look back on this and laugh

Invisible2

I dont think theres anything too bad about the email just stupid but I think they should get sacked. Who really cares what they said-its the associated press that PwC have received. They don't need it. It looks so unprofessional. PwC are bigger than those idiots so they might as well sack them showing that they take this seriously.

After all they can easily find people to fill their jobs

Foxtrol

Millicent wrote: »

Okay, maybe this email is overblown in my head, but was there not a ratings system/pictures attached? That seems a bit too systematic for a casual chat to me. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm basing this on what I've read so far.

There was no rating system. From the mail it appears that firstly one lad sent a list (including pictures) of what he thought were the best looking 10 girls in the new intake (no ranking). Another lad added on the pictures of another 3. The next guy says states his "reservations" about one of the girls being included. The next guy forwards it outside of his office to other mates with the phrase "FYI. New Clunge".

This is just like a group of lads/girls in a pub after work chatting about the new intake agreeing and disagreeing as they go. This is followed by one from the group going off to his/her mates outside the group and describing themn using derogatory language. There's simply no sexism in it, just human nature and the one mate that takes things a little too far while trying to get attention. (This is not saying using the email was not idiotic but trying to show how this stuff happens everyday)

As far as someones comment about this incident stopping an apparent "jock culture" in the Big 4, I'll have to disagree. This situation is only going to give people a bit of cop on to not use their work emails for this kind of stuff. The majority of the Staff in the Big 4 are just after leaving college and are between 21 and 26 so this kind of situation is bound to happen. I'll add that from my experience the girls are just as bad as the guys when it comes to this kind of thing (they're just not stupid enough to get caught).

Diapason

I'd say if they're sacked they've a reasonable case for wrongful dismissal. It's pretty hard to sack people for one offence in this country.

Millicent

Foxtrol wrote: »

There was no rating system. From the mail it appears that firstly one lad sent a list (including pictures) of what he thought were the best looking 10 girls in the new intake (no ranking). Another lad added on the pictures of another 3. The next guy says states his "reservations" about one of the girls being included. The next guy forwards it outside of his office to other mates with the phrase "FYI. New Clunge".

This is just like a group of lads/girls in a pub after work chatting about the new intake agreeing and disagreeing as they go. This is followed by one from the group going off to his/her mates outside the group and describing themn using derogatory language. There's simply no sexism in it, just human nature and the one mate that takes things a little too far while trying to get attention. (This is not saying using the email was not idiotic but trying to show how this stuff happens everyday)

As far as someones comment about this incident stopping an apparent "jock culture" in the Big 4, I'll have to disagree. This situation is only going to give people a bit of cop on to not use their work emails for this kind of stuff. The majority of the Staff in the Big 4 are just after leaving college and are between 21 and 26 so this kind of situation is bound to happen. I'll add that from my experience the girls are just as bad as the guys when it comes to this kind of thing (they're just not stupid enough to get caught).

I'll reserve definitive judgement for the moment but thank you for describing it out for me. In fairness though, if you consider it another way: Would picking the ten ugliest girls have been sexist? Would doing the same based on race or religion be okay? And whether it was numbered, having the ten hottest is a rating system. What sort of derogatory language is used, if it won't get the thread locked or Boards in trouble?