Festina lente

chickey2

RayCun wrote: »

3 weeks ago

its just today has me wrecked - lie-in tomorrow and two recovery runs, I'll be fine

You should be grand then. Look after those platelets! ;-)

RayCun

I was being a bit optimistic thinking that the easy day would sort me out, was still pretty tired through the week last week. But it was a fairly easy week anyway, and now I have an actual day off running :eek:

Monday was the usual AM and PM recovery runs (8.1k each)

Tuesday, short run in the morning, slightly less short in the afternoon (6.4 and 8.7k)

Wednesday, morning session, 5 x (400 @ 10k, 1200m at steady). I try to avoid looking at the watch all the time on these, but checking afterwards the 10k sections were a bit too slow, while the steady ones were fine. Did these in Bushy park on the way to work. 16.1k total

Thursday, same as Tuesday

Friday, plan says "hilly endurance run". This is on the way to work, so the best I could manage was to run from Bushy park up Braemor Road/Taney Road/Mount Anville. A few nice climbs in there, but could do with more. Also a bit shorter than I expected. Next time may cut through UCD and back out to do Roebuck as well, but I don't see many other options for making my commute hillier. 13.1k

Saturday, I switched the Saturday and Sunday runs around, because I had to be in Santry for 10 for the kids XC on Sunday. That meant I could start this a little later than usual (ie after 7am). Ran up to Phoenix park, in at Islandbridge, Military, S-bends, the glen, around the front of Ordnance Survey then onto the trails around to North road as far as that road through the zoo (Lords walk?), then turned and retraced my steps home. All grand, but i was getting tired, and effort increased, once I left the park again, all uphill from there. Nearly went on my snot in Inchicore, crossing the road and my right foot wasn't high enough, caught on the kerb behind me, lucky I didn't pull something staying upright:rolleyes: 29k

Sunday, easy run in the morning and the afternoon, 9 and 9.5k, up to Tymon, a lap, and back. This would have been an easy day on Saturday, but doing it after the long run meant I was pretty tired and heavy-legged for both.

123k for the week, 515 for last month

RayCun

Monday - day off!

Tuesday - supposed to be tempo run, but I was still feeling the effects of the weekend. I underestimated (ie. didn't consider at all) the impact of switching Saturday and Sunday. Instead of hilly run -> easy double -> long run, I had hilly run -> long run -> double day on legs that felt overstretched and unresponsive. So just a 12k easy run home

Wednesday - easy 12 in the morning and easy 8 in the evening

Thursday - easy 8 in the morning and easy 12 in the evening

Friday - 3 x (3 x 600) @5k
up early to get this done, over to Bushy on my way to work. 30 seconds recovery in the sets, which is barely long enough to stop running and take a breath to swear when the the watch starts beeping again. The lap of Bushy is about 1200m, so 1st and 3rd reps in each set were downhill and 2nd uphill, but I managed to keep paces in the right area. 4 minutes of very slow recovery between sets.

AuldManKing

For the Magness training plan, to achieve a more "mortal mileage" - do you keep the sessions the same length and just cut the distance off the easy days? Or do you cut the sessions by a %?

RayCun

AuldManKing wrote: »

For the Magness training plan, to achieve a more "mortal mileage" - do you keep the sessions the same length and just cut the distance off the easy days? Or do you cut the sessions by a %?

I've kept most of the sessions the same. Last week's 5 x (400/1200) is 6 in the plan, and I think this Sunday's progression run has a longer progressive element in the plan than I will be doing. Not because of any well-thought out plan, you understand

One thing I've noticed actually is that I feel I got much fitter/sharper very quickly in the first month or so of the plan. Which is a good thing, yes, but I was thinking over the weekend that it probably isn't sustainable - I'm not going to improve this much in the next 6 weeks, and the 6 after that, and the 6 after that. So I have to pay more attention to keeping the easy days easy, and be ready to drop sessions like Tuesday when I'm overextended. I do have a few spare weeks over the plan, I'll be making sure to use them around races for recovery.

RayCun

completing the week...

Saturday - 9.5k in the morning, 8 in the afternoon
lap of Tymon in the morning, road loop later

Sunday - 14k easy, 6 progressive, cooldown
two laps of Tymon for the first bit, then down to a nearby park which is just under a km per lap. Tried to keep it to a steady increase of about 10 seconds per lap, which is surprisingly difficult

Niggle watch - left ankle (still), right knee, right hip

Lazare

RayCun wrote: »

3.58.06

Very pleased with that, but also completely wrecked. Proper report when my brain is no longer tapioca. Next year perhaps?

Garmin tells the story

Sorry to dig up a 7 year old post Ray but when I saw on another thread that your first marathon was 3:58:06 and you're now a sub 3 marathoner it gave me a huge boost of inspiration.

I just ran my first in 3:58:08.

I'm gonna pick up your log from that point on and study it hard.

Hopefully crack a sub 3 before I'm 50.

RayCun

Read Krusty's - aim higher!

RayCun

another missed session :rolleyes:

Monday : AM and PM recovery runs (14.7k total)

Tuesday: hilly run home from work - out the front of UCD, up Fosters Avenue, past Deer park, Mt Anville, the Goat, under Taney bridge and up into Churchtown, then home - so pretty much flat after the first 5k :rolleyes: No time for more though, had to be home for a parent teacher meeting

Wednesday: 10k into work, gym for an hour, 8k afterwards

Thursday: supposed to be a session, but my knee was sore after the gym (after the hills after the run after...) The way out of the office park is a couple of hundred metres downhill, and that was enough to tell me running hard was out for the day. Jogged home (7k)

Friday: direct run into work (7k), fine today

It occurred to me that the thing to do with these missed sessions is to use them to fill the extra weeks in my plan. Even better, do them instead of similar sessions in later weeks, and push those similar sessions into the free weeks. eg, next week the plan says 15 + 15 tempo but I didn't do the 10 + 15 tempo last week. So I'll do 10 + 15 next week, and put 15 + 15 on the stack...

RayCun

Saturday: 10k in the morning, 6k in the afternoon. Nothing exciting about either

Sunday: 32k - up to the park, in at Islandbridge, around the outside to Parkgate entrance and outside to the corner of Infirmary road to get to 16k, then turned around and ran the same route in reverse. Nice morning out there. Only just getting light when I got to the park so I nearly ran into a herd of deer outside Ordnance Survey house. On the way back, crossing Chesterfield, a clubmate was just parking and ran up behind me, so there were a few faster miles until I left the park again.

Felt fine afterwards - legs tired and heavy but not sore. But then when I went to bed my ankle started acting up again :mad: so it wasn't a great night's sleep.

Anyway, that's the first block of marathon training done. About 800k in the 7 weeks, and most sessions done, with two to fit in over the next few months. No races, but I am feeling pretty good apart from the ankle.

RayCun

Monday : usual AM and PM recovery runs (14.7k total)

Tuesday: 10 x 10 hills (10k)
Legs were still feeling tired and heavy from the weekend on the way to the hill, but were surprisingly okay for the hills themselves

Wednesday: 12k AM into work, 6k when I got home - first half with the kid, second on my own

Thursday: split tempo, 10 + 15 minutes
Into Bushy park on the way home for this one. I was reading up on the session the other day (wondering was there a difference between 'LT' pace and 'tempo' pace), and he says something about this sort of session supposed to be invigorating rather than draining :rolleyes::pac: maybe if I was 20 years younger!

Warm-up and drills, then the first 10 minutes was basically two laps of the park. It was pretty dark by the time I started, so I checked the watch on the lit path at one end, and turned on the light for a quick check at the other, and tried to keep the same effort otherwise. A few minutes easy running recovery, and I decided to do the second half in the opposite direction for a bit of variety.
Less watch-checking this time, more on effort, and a bit slower - though I honestly think the darkness was slowing me down a bit too. I almost ran into someone I didn't spot until he was almost on top of me, and there wasn't a lot to see of the path.

Anyway, 3:48 for the 10, and 3:53 for the 15

Friday: 10k this morning, will do another 6 later

RayCun

Friday: PM easy 6k

Saturday: AM pacing Tymon parkrun. Freezing out there, I did my warmup with a jacket, tracksuit bottoms and hat on, and kept the hat on for the first lap of the run itself.

Had guests over in the afternoon, and ate too much cake, but when they went for a walk I dragged myself out for another 10k.

Sunday: 7 x (800@LT, 800@MP)
I knew this was going to be a tough one. Went over to Bushy park to get a flattish circuit and make it easier to judge each interval - a track would have been ideal. I was a bit worried about the cold after Saturday, it was the kind of day that would make you consider running in tights :eek:, and did consider waiting until the afternoon, but decided to get it over with in the morning. I did wear a long sleeved top under my t-shirt though, it was that cold.

Did some sprints before the start to wake myself up, which had the entirely predictable effect of making me run too fast on the first interval (3:42 pace, and that was easing off a lot in the second half), before settling into something a bit more controllable. First five were about right, sixth I was fading, and last 'LT interval' wasn't even marathon pace, I was cooked.

On the bright side, if the session had been 7 miles at marathon pace I probably would have thought, "hmm, that'll be a bit hard", but doing this session really does make you think "thank **** it's back to marathon pace now" :pac:

oh, ankle was fine with that (or no worse than the rest of me!), it seems to be the long runs > fatigue > longer contact time > more twisting

pconn062

Very impressed with your current training streak Ray, very consistent.

RayCun

this appears to be Steve Magness' web site from about 2005 :pac:

AuldManKing

Some great nuggets in there, Ray.

Regarding pace of easy runs - we all know this, but still probably run them too fast;

" .....................This has been shown to occur somewhere around AT (marathon pace) to LT. So Let's say your AT is at 5:20 pace. If you run at 5:35 pace all your doing is recruiting ST fibers and getting adaptations because the intensity isn't high enough to recruit FT fibers. So you might as well be training at 6:30 pace, because full ST fiber recruitment will be taking place there too. If the goal is to train FT fiber oxidative abilities then go run an LT session. If it's not, then don't run at a high intensity that's doing little benefit as a slower more comfortable run could do.
To sum this up a quote from Jan Olbrecht's book Science of Winning:

"Research has shown that these slow twitch muscle fibers are fully activated even at low and medium intensities...Higher training intensities will not recruit additional mitochondria in the slow twitch fibers...thus more intensive training will not lead to a larger training effect in the slow twitch muscle fibers..."

Of course this is just looking at one physiological variable of increasing endurance, but the point of it was that, the easy or normal run should serve a purpose. If the intensity is low in your training schedule such as a period of mostly just mileage, it is okay to increase the pace slightly and run at a faster pace to establish some cardiovascular fitness. However, when real training commences, the purpose of these in between runs is clear. It's to facilitate recovery and work on or maintain the aerobic system between specific workouts. That's why the most important thing is to define what you are working on. If you are just using them for recovery and maintaining the aerobic system, then they should be done comfortably.
As I showed above you have to increase the intensity substantially to activate the fast twitch muscle fibers to get them to develop aerobically, and if you were trying to do that, then you would just schedule an LT workout, instead of trying to hammer an "easy" run.

For a high schooler, if 7 minute pace feels comfortable, why increase the effort to run 6:30 pace when that's not the point of the run and it will only make you more tired for the upcoming workout. If the runs in between the workouts are hurting the workout itself then they are being done to fast. Every run needs to be looked at independently to see what the goal is. If it's to increase LT, then do an LT workout, if it's to recover, then go jog, if it's to maintain the aerobic system, then go run a comfortably 7 miles. Don't "hammer" an easy run if that's not the purpose, save the faster running for when it is the purpose."

RayCun

Monday : usual AM and PM recovery runs (14.6k total)

Tuesday: 3k tempo, 1.5k @ 10k, 6 hills
Paces way off on these, still tired from Sunday I think. Plus running in the dark again. I was wondering the other night why this was bothering me so much this year, then I thought back
this time last year, still having trouble with achilles, not much faster running
two years ago, same
three years ago, post DCM recovery, and I seemed to be doing club sessions
four years ago, was doing lots of easy running
further back, I was doing more club sessions

So this is the first time I've been fitting sessions into my commute during the winter.
And it's a pain in the arse!

Wednesday: 10k AM, 10k PM

Thursday: 10k with pickups
Last pickup was in my local park, running the 'wrong' direction to avoid some walkers, and I missed a turn in the dark and ran out into the grass :rolleyes:

Friday: 10k into work

OOnegative

Best of luck in Waterford Ray, hope it goes to plan, run well.

OOnegative

Savage running Ray, is that a new PB?

RayCun

yeah, 1:21:28, PB was 1:22:17 from Bohermeen way back in 2013. Two halves in 2014 were both 1:23:0x

It's firmly in 'meh' territory - can't be too unhappy with a PB, but I would have liked to go faster. I'll put up more detail on Monday when I upload the run, but -

I didn't have much of a plan going into the race, or a firm target really - loose idea of getting under 3:50 average pace, and starting a it slower and building into it. That plan disappeared when I saw the start - 500m off fairly steep downhill! The only plan left was "run" :pac:

That seemed to be working okay for a while - the first 10-12k were faster than planned but felt comfortable. I tagged on behind a couple of Eagle AC runners for a while, they seemed to be running about 3.46/48, I'd drop back on the uphills and catch up on the downs, but around 10k? one of them picked it up again and I wasn't chasing. Still felt good until about 8/9 miles? but pace dropped over the next 2/3,before I started pulling it back in the last 2/3.

I think a combination of a couple of things that I need to get better at -

in the first few miles, I arrive at an effort level that feels manageable and also fast enough. Getting into the second half of the race, that effort level is no longer fast enough, but I'm too slow to react. When I get closer to the end, I can work harder, but there's that section of the race where I need to find a level between "first half effort" and "near the end effort"

judging that effort level on a hilly course. Flat road, I know what I should be running. In the early miles I was comfortable easing off a bit on the uphill and making it back on the down. But around 8/9/10, it was fairly draggy and I was dropping off too much

Anyway. Some progress, but not as much as I'd wanted.

Murph_D

Completely identify with your insights about the middle third of the race not being up to your own expectations and standards but it's still a significant thing to hit a substantial PB after 4 years, isn't it? Congrats. Lots like a lot of other things are going right.

RayCun

race details

a bit too fast in the first half, went through 10k in about 37.30
14-17k weren't awful, but 10-15 seconds off what they should have been, and I didn't pull it back as much as I thought towards the end

oh, and 488km for November

RayCun

as I mentioned on career move's log, Waterford prompted me to look back on my log from late 2012/early 2013, and that was depressing :eek::o:(

anyway, all recovery this week

Sunday: 6.5k very slow and creaky

Monday: no running, gave blood

Tuesday: 11k easy home from work

Wednesday: 10k easy into work, and 6k in the evening, half with the kid

Thursday: 10k home, a few pick-ups

Friday: 10k back in

Quads and hips tight and achy early in the week, gradually better. Legs still feel a bit stiff and heavy, so will take it easy over the weekend too and start back on plan on Monday. I was going to do some pick-ups on the way in this morning but there were too many frosty and slippy patches, it wasn't worth it.

davedanon

RayCun wrote: »

as I mentioned on career move's log, Waterford prompted me to look back on my log from late 2012/early 2013, and that was depressing :eek::o:(

Because you were so much better? Or worse.

RayCun

davedanon wrote: »

Because you were so much better? Or worse.

because of the sirens, alarm bells, and flashing red lights

AuldManKing

looking fwd Ray, whats on the cards??

btw - I've been speaking with your uncle a lot lately

RayCun

AuldManKing wrote: »

looking fwd Ray, whats on the cards??

btw - I've been speaking with your uncle a lot lately

Ha, really? Say hi to him for me, I haven't seen him in ages

The next few months are
Masters XC
Raheny 5
Trim 10
probably Carlingford half
Rotterdam

I think I'll leave it to the club captain to decide whether I'll be running cross country or the marathon in the autumn (most likely the marathon), and that will determine most of my summer racing.

and Berlin in 2019?


weekend was

Saturday: 10k in the morning, 10k in the afternoon - both just up to Tymon and a lap around

Sunday: slept late! Combination of half-bottle of wine hangover, the weather, and OH having to do some early shopping. Got out around noon and went up to Tymon again, for some old-school running through the mud around the edge of each field. Bumped into some clubmates for a while, got rained/sleeted on for a while, but mainly just easy splashing.

Monday: easy jog into work. Lots of ice out there

RayCun

Monday: PM jog home from work again

Tuesday was a miracle of bad planning. The day was supposed to be 13k/13k, but I had to get a bag into work in the morning so was going to cycle, and decided to do 10k/16k instead. Got up early to do the 10k in time to shower/eat/cycle in to work, went up to Tymon and did a couple of laps of the parkrun course. Literally around the corner from the house on the way back, I decided that I'd be better off running into work - much safer if it's getting slippy. But that meant staying in my running gear and getting cold while eating breakfast, and then running in with a heavier bag than usual because there was no time for repacking :rolleyes:

Did the planned lap of UCD on the way home anyway, sure why not?

Wednesday: split tempo, 15 + 15 minutes (this week is supposed to be 15 + 20, but I missed this one a few weeks ago)

Another early start for this. Used the small local park instead of Bushy because I reckoned it was less likely to have ice, but that wasn't a problem this morning anyway. It's also on a more direct route to work, saves a bit of time, and the dog-walkers that can be a pain were scared away by the rain.

Jogged down and did a short warm-up, not much speed in the strides this morning! Between the dark and the rain on my watch, I didn't even try to check the pace, just tried to settle into something comfortably hard, but was fairly sure I was settling too far on the side of 'comfortable'. The park is almost exactly 1k around, so I should get almost 4 laps done in 15 minutes, and as expected I was well short on the first set.

3 minutes jog recovery and into the second set. Again, no idea of pace so I just concentrated on keeping the effort up and grinning like an idiot a champion at regular intervals :pac: Then finished with an easy run the rest of the way into work.

Pace was, as expected, awful - 4:04 for the first set :rolleyes: and 3:56 for the second. At first I took some comfort from the high HR readings - maybe the effort was right at least? - but a closer look shows very high readings on the way to the park, and highs of over 200 in the first set, so I think the band just wasn't sitting properly

RayCun

I really need to put some more thought into my version of the training plan...

Wednesday: Finished work at lunchtime, meeting with council in the afternoon. Since I ran in on Tuesday, I had to shuffle back home with the bag.

Then after dinner, I'd promised the kid I'd go for a run with him, so another 15 minutes out.

Thursday: supposed to be a run in the morning, but ankle was giving me trouble during the night, and I'd had those extra runmutes, so I decided to take some extra rest.

PM: lap of UCD and home, 14k

Friday: AM around UCD and in to work 14k
PM 5.5k waiting for the kid to get himself ready, then 2.5 with him

Saturday: Long run, 29k with 10 x 60 surges in the last 6k
Usually I'd head up to Phoenix park for a long run, but I wanted to get back to my local park for the surges, so decided to stick to Tymon. Don't remember much of the long run bit, except for feeling pretty tired most of the way around :rolleyes:. The surges weren't pretty, very hard to get my legs moving faster. The first few were probably too fast -> too slow on the recoveries, the last five were slower but dropping back to a regular pace in between.

Completely exhausted after that.

Sunday: 2k warmup, 13k steady, 2k cooldown
Out late (for me) the night before, club party, but had to get up at 8 for this. wasn't as bad as I'd expected though. The hangover waited until later to kick in, and steady pace running, because it is a fairly broad range, was less stressful than a tempo or something. Not that I could have run at tempo pace - not even a mile. But anyway, the steady section started uphill and into the wind, and I wasn't bothered by the slow pace, and then was pleasantly surprised by how much it picked up when I turned around. No bargaining required to finish the distance, it wasn't in doubt, and felt reasonably comfortable. At the same time though, I didn't feel like anything faster was a possibility. I wasn't getting any closer to the limit during the run, but I knew it was close enough already.

There would have been a perverse pleasure in ending the week on 98 miles, but the plan is the plan, and it said 8k easy Sunday PM, so that's what I did. Again, fairly comfortable at that pace, but no illusions that I could have done more.

So, that's how you end up running 100 miles in a week without really meaning to.

Duanington

That's some week there Ray, fair play to you ( I think!)

AuldManKing

100 miles. Top marks - thats insane.

Thats also some load of washing.