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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    Be careful of those massive spikes in training Ray, 60/70 miles a week up to 100 is just crazy and asking for trouble. Also not worth it in terms of training unless you are going to build up slowly to it and maintain it. Don't want to start the year injured.

    Yours,

    A chronically injured former runner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Yeah, I had one 80 mile week a while back, but that was a big jump, not one I intend to repeat (in this training cycle anyway)

    I'm taking it easy this week, and will do my sums in future!


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    ending the year with a bleurgh, but at least not an injury...

    Monday: AM & PM recovery jogs, as per

    Tuesday: lap of UCD and home, 15k

    Wednesday: early 15k around Tymon, then 5k from the girl's school to work, after seeing their end-of-year show

    Wednesday afternoon - "Hmm, think I'm getting a cold. oh well"
    Wednesday evening - "yeah, definitely a cold. Maybe just 10k home from work then"
    Thursday AM - "maybe I shouldn't run at all"

    apparently I've also filled my brain with slow-twitch fibres :rolleyes::o

    a few days off it is...


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    don't know if it was a mild flu or a very persistent cold, but fever, high heart rate, and general exhaustion meant no running until Wednesday. That was a very easy 20-25 minutes. Two short runs yesterday, and two easy runmutes today, hoping to do the club tempo run tomorrow. I usually get a few runs in with the adults over the holidays, but not this year :rolleyes:

    Still feeling stiff/sore around my hips/tops of my legs. Don't know if its a symptom, or from a week of not running, but I hope it wears off soon...


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    still feeling flat and slow - not sure if it's illness after-effects, too much food and drink, or loss of sharpness from a week off... probably a bit of everything

    got out for the club tempo on Saturday, first time in ages. Very muddy around Marlay, and I was very slow. Ended up with a blister on my heel from my spikes too :rolleyes: Still good to get a bit of practice in ahead of next Sunday

    Sunday was just an easy run, about an hour around Tymon

    Monday - Bushy parkrun. First time doing it, and it isn't a fast course, but I was very slow anyway - average pace about the same as Waterford half :pac::rolleyes:
    Out again in the afternoon for an easy jog.

    Will do a bit of faster running this week to try waking myself up, recalibrating ahead of the Masters, it would be a shame just to jog around it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    I had a look at my heart rate data from Tuesday and Wednesday, both seem noticeably higher than they should be, so I decided to take it easier for a few days. Easy runs in and out of work yesterday (I had a puncture, no choice), and cycled in and out today. Will do about 10k in the morning, finishing with some strides, and cross fingers for Sunday...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭El Caballo


    RayCun wrote: »
    I had a look at my heart rate data from Tuesday and Wednesday, both seem noticeably higher than they should be, so I decided to take it easier for a few days. Easy runs in and out of work yesterday (I had a puncture, no choice), and cycled in and out today. Will do about 10k in the morning, finishing with some strides, and cross fingers for Sunday...

    Are you sure it's a good idea to run on Sunday? Looking objectively at your training for the last few weeks, I'd personally eer on the side of caution now. I know you were sick but alarm bells are ringing in my head when I read through it. A big spike in mileage followed by sickness and a persistent feeling of dead legs should be all signs that it's time to back off and really start listening to your body. It's just one race in the bigger picture and I'd be inclined to think forgetting about is a better option than grinding through it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Yeah, I see where you're coming from.

    I don't think the illness was caused by the mileage spike though - my son had the same thing, starting a few days before I got it. So I may have been susceptible because of the high mileage, or it may have prolonged the after effects, but I don't think it's a case of over training.

    I'd be more inclined to skip the cross country if I thought I was carrying an injury, that's something that a race could make much worse. But I think the worst case scenario is more like the tempo and parkrun last weekend, a poor run that delays recovery, and if that's what happens I'll take a week off. But I think there's a good chance the easy few days will have been enough, and besides, the only way to assess this is to try a hard run :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭El Caballo


    RayCun wrote: »
    Yeah, I see where you're coming from.

    I don't think the illness was caused by the mileage spike though - my son had the same thing, starting a few days before I got it. So I may have been susceptible because of the high mileage, or it may have prolonged the after effects, but I don't think it's a case of over training.

    I'd be more inclined to skip the cross country if I thought I was carrying an injury, that's something that a race could make much worse. But I think the worst case scenario is more like the tempo and parkrun last weekend, a poor run that delays recovery, and if that's what happens I'll take a week off. But I think there's a good chance the easy few days will have been enough, and besides, the only way to assess this is to try a hard run :)

    Fair enough but I do think things like dead legs and elevated heartrates should be treated with the same attentiveness as injuries as altough they are less debilitating and obvious in the short-term, the end result can often end up the same but one is just a bit more sneaky as runners often have a disregard for fatigue as well as injuries. The feedback in training is often more detailed as well I find as it can be measured over a good bit of time rather than one race and the hints usually start popping up well in advance of where they become obvious which is the results.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Curse you, El Caballo!

    ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Yeah, so went out for 10k on Saturday, still felt below-par, decided there was no point in going through the motions on Sunday, and I'm taking a few days off instead. Eating up the cushion of spare weeks I had before Rotterdam!


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    so fecking annoying... after coming back from the flu I had a bit of a niggle on my hip, nothing serious just irritating. I figured taking the extra few days off would fix that too, but instead it got worse :rolleyes: So I've been keeping the distances short for the last few days and avoiding sessions (tried sprinting at the end of the gym session on Wednesday and had to stop immediately). It seems to be getting better, slowly, so I'll gradually extend the distances this week, maybe try a few strides, and aim at a session on Saturday and return to normal training after that.

    I've entered Raheny and Trim, but I don't think I'll do a half now, will hope for an interrupted 8 week block of training before Rotterdam instead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Resistance band is great for building hip strength, use it most days myself to keep my hip issue in check & feel it’s benefitted me greatly for hip strength.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    getting back to normality...

    usual jog in and out of work on Monday
    Tuesday to Thursday were in/out of work with added laps of UCD, all about 14k
    Hip got better gradually through the week. Still not 100%, but on the way. I've changed my morning routine, swapping in some band work, so fingers crossed

    also got some non-running stuff sorted this week :)
    will have to see what it does to my training schedule!

    The plan for now is parkrun-then-tempo on Saturday morning in Tymon, long run on Sunday, a couple of hours, and count back from Rotterdam to see where to jump back into the schedule, bearing in mind the two weeks from middle of next week will be all race prep and recovery. Should have a solid 8 weeks anyway - I see a lot of MP running in my future!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    Good to see you back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Best of luck tomorrow Ray, have a good one. Run well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    going back a while here

    Sat 20th
    supposed to be parkrun + tempo, but it was a miserable morning. So bad that the parkrun started on time :pac: no-one wanted to hang around waiting - so I came around the corner from my warm-up lap to see them all at the start line. Just had time to run up and duck in a few rows back, and it started.

    none of the faster guys there that day, so I made my way up to the leaders by the end of the first k and just continued on. Midway through the second lap all thoughts of going for a tempo afterwards were abandoned, but I did jog a lap cooldown.

    21st
    Long run, back to the park. Usual route for most of it, but the trail bits around the north corner were such a mess that I avoided them on the way back, stuck to the paths. 25k total.

    Monday 22
    usual jog in and out of work

    Tuesday 23
    lap of UCD and home, finishing with some strides

    Wednesday
    into work around UCD, about 14k

    Thursday
    mini-session - 5 minutes 10k, 5 recovery, 2 x 3 minutes 5k, 2 recovery, 1 minutes, 45 seconds, 30 seconds at faster pace, with 2 minutes recovery
    Did this in the park near home, so had a 30 minute easy run warmup and then some drills. I was very reluctant to get started on the drills and session, no appetite for it at all. Just a mental thing, nothing wrong physically - I'm glad I only looked at the splits now though, they were pretty awful :pac:

    Friday
    easy run into work, more direct route, a few 30 second pickups along the way

    Saturday
    out in Abbotstown early with the kids, so about lunchtime when I got to run - just feels wrong :) Up to Tymon and a lap of the parkrun course, finishing with some strides in a (different) local park


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Raheny 5 mile

    I haven't raced a lot recently, but have done a few parkruns. I think they're actually bad for my confidence - they're like a race, so I try to run them like a race, but they aren't, so I can't :rolleyes: Times that I'd be happy with in a tempo are too slow when they're in a 5k, even if it isn't really a 5k :) And I think I tend to get stuck at an effort level that is too low for the distance.

    Also, we had Jerry K come out and talk to the club a few weeks ago, and one of the things that annoys him (there's a long list ;) ) is runners looking at their watches during races and hard training sessions. He didn't go into it, but you look at your watch and you think "too fast! I'd better slow down", and you're stuck in the limits you've set yourself, or you think "too slow!" and instead of working harder you write off the effort as a bad job. So I've been trying to wean myself off it a bit - easier in winter with a long-sleeved top covering it :)

    Anyway, this all meant I didn't have a time goal in mind for Sunday. I wanted to start hard and hold on, rather than try to run smart and end up not really racing. I ended up looking at my watch more than Jerry would approve :pac: but not too bad in the end.

    Got out to Raheny at just the right time - bag drop, warm-up, a few drills and strides, and into the crowd a few minutes before the start, no hanging around. Didn't see a lot of top men, but the women's field was packed.

    Start was the usual mad rush, but opening out reasonably quickly, only one or two lunatics to contend with, and the usual couple of minutes where it feels like you're jogging until suddenly you realise that you aren't :) First km came in at 3:24, and that was decelerating steadily from the first 100m

    Second km is easy to go wrong, letting that deceleration go too far, but I had a couple of people in my sights, a clubmate and a guy from Balbriggan, and spent that km working past them (3:36). 3rd k was a bit slow, a bit of a drag and maybe no particular targets to chase (3:44), but it includes the turn onto the Sybill Hill downhill. Checked my watch at the 2 mile marker, don't remember what it said but it was enough to help push me down the hill and around the corner (3:28). Halfway was 14 something-low.

    Next km (3:38) is a blank :pac: I remember thinking something about using my arms and relaxing my breathing, might have been this stretch, but the next thing about the course I recall is the right turn outside the park, followed by the turn in. Last year this stretch, up to the turnaround, was pretty miserable, and I knew with the wind and drag it had the potential for that again, so I was focused on holding my position rather than dropping off, but staying relaxed until the turnaround. 3:44 for the section up to the out and back, and 3:48 for the next km (about 4:00 on the way to the turnaround :eek:)

    Jerry K was standing at the 4 mile marker, so saw me checking my watch and no doubt cursed me for a clown :pac: It was only telling me what I already knew - about 23 minutes so far, under 29 was in reach but there was no margin. Drag up out of the park, and like everyone else I'm trying to wind things up, but so tired. Out onto the road and getting loads of shouts, and I'm trying to break the race down into bits that don't count - the last straight doesn't count, because that's the sprint for the line, the little road around the corner doesn't count, that's so short, the other side of the park... okay, **** it, go there. Top of the park and there's about 100m where it feels like the wind is a wall that stopped me dead, then onto Wade Avenue and started counting to 60, which means I have to go faster...

    ... and that's it, 3:31 for the last k, and I have no idea who else went around the park with me, if I got anyone in the sprint or someone got me. 6 seconds slower than my PB from 3 years ago, but I'm happy with that - I started hard and raced to the end, that's all I set out to do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    RayCun wrote:
    Also, we had Jerry K come out and talk to the club a few weeks ago, and one of the things that annoys him (there's a long list ) is runners looking at their watches during races and hard training sessions. He didn't go into it, but you look at your watch and you think "too fast! I'd better slow down", and you're stuck in the limits you've set yourself, or you think "too slow!" and instead of working harder you write off the effort as a bad job. So I've been trying to wean myself off it a bit - easier in winter with a long-sleeved top covering it

    I see this pattern emerging from reading the race reports over the weekend (myself included).

    Great run. Well done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Great stuff Ray, well done.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Fantastic performance Ray - interesting about the watch. Worked the other way for me (a bit).


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭Duanington


    Good stuff Ray - good to see back at it


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    All the best tomorrow Ray, run well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Well done today, don’t think it’s a PB, either way it’s a good result after Raheny last week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Long story short - went out for 60 minutes, which was too much of a stretch. Started slipping around the first water station. First half was 30.15, something like that, second half was 31. "Start slower to finish faster" is a lesson to be relearned every now and again I guess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    RayCun wrote: »
    Long story short - went out for 60 minutes, which was too much of a stretch. Started slipping around the first water station. First half was 30.15, something like that, second half was 31. "Start slower to finish faster" is a lesson to be relearned every now and again I guess.

    Second half is tougher I think alright but on top of Raheny last week you are heading in the right direction heading towards Rotterdam.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Not a lot to log at the moment, has been mostly easy running over the last few weeks. Started a new job this week and can't upload runs from work, and home laptop is almost as old and decrepit as me, so can't upload there either.

    Working in the ifsc now, and a few runners in work, so I'll be a regular on the lunchtime Irishtown circuit. The downside is the routes to and from work are worse. Ran home last week staying close to the river and it was a mess of road crossings and pedestrians. Back in the next day along the canal was better, but not a patch on the Dodder path.

    First session in a while this morning, 6 x 1.5 miles at MP, with 800 steady recoveries. 7 am wasn't fun, went to local small park for this, 1k laps, fairly flat, windy and boring, seemed appropriate. Pace was a bit slow, I think about 4.05, but effort felt right. First interval was slowest, last was fastest, more indicators to start the race easy and work into it.

    Long weekend generally, Dublin indoor championships, many hours out in Abbotstown, we had 100 juveniles competing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    RayCun wrote: »
    Not a lot to log at the moment, has been mostly easy running over the last few weeks. Started a new job this week and can't upload runs from work, and home laptop is almost as old and decrepit as me, so can't upload there either.

    Working in the ifsc now, and a few runners in work, so I'll be a regular on the lunchtime Irishtown circuit. The downside is the routes to and from work are worse. Ran home last week staying close to the river and it was a mess of road crossings and pedestrians. Back in the next day along the canal was better, but not a patch on the Dodder path.

    First session in a while this morning, 6 x 1.5 miles at MP, with 800 steady recoveries. 7 am wasn't fun, went to local small park for this, 1k laps, fairly flat, windy and boring, seemed appropriate. Pace was a bit slow, I think about 4.05, but effort felt right. First interval was slowest, last was fastest, more indicators to start the race easy and work into it.

    Long weekend generally, Dublin indoor championships, many hours out in Abbotstown, we had 100 juveniles competing.


    Ringsend park is good for a session. Use it a lot. Not sure if u can run the dodder all the way to sandymount and then come up by ringsend and across the east link.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Huzzah!


    Ringsend park is good for a session. Use it a lot. Not sure if u can run the dodder all the way to sandymount and then come up by ringsend and across the east link.

    You can run the Dodder in as far as Ringsend, then if you run along Thorncastle Street, there is a pedestrian entrance that brings you out onto the Eastlink.

    Crossing the road at Ballsbridge and Donnybrook can be a pain, alright.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,426 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Plenty of good northside routes, Ray!


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