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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,623 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    This time try and stay on your feet for the photo at the finish auld lad :)

    TbL


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Coming up to the end of the 10k, well into the last kilometre (how far, I don't know, rain on my watch). A guy, seems to be a local, has made a late surge, and he's been on my shoulder for a couple of minutes, but I'm holding him. His watch beeps, 6 miles. I see a 6 mile sign on the side of the road. There's a corner up ahead, and I convince myself that the finish must be just around that corner, time to go. Surge up to the corner, and around, and the finish line is ****ing miles away - and just like that, I stop running. :rolleyes:

    The great thing about running is that every race presents a new and exciting opportunity to **** things up :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,623 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    RayCun wrote: »
    Coming up to the end of the 10k, well into the last kilometre (how far, I don't know, rain on my watch). A guy, seems to be a local, has made a late surge, and he's been on my shoulder for a couple of minutes, but I'm holding him. His watch beeps, 6 miles. I see a 6 mile sign on the side of the road. There's a corner up ahead, and I convince myself that the finish must be just around that corner, time to go. Surge up to the corner, and around, and the finish line is ****ing miles away - and just like that, I stop running. :rolleyes:

    The great thing about running is that every race presents a new and exciting opportunity to **** things up :rolleyes:


    ? Did you finish. Not like you to be so soft?

    TbL


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Was that a race report?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    RayCun wrote: »
    Coming up to the end of the 10k, well into the last kilometre (how far, I don't know, rain on my watch). A guy, seems to be a local, has made a late surge, and he's been on my shoulder for a couple of minutes, but I'm holding him. His watch beeps, 6 miles. I see a 6 mile sign on the side of the road. There's a corner up ahead, and I convince myself that the finish must be just around that corner, time to go. Surge up to the corner, and around, and the finish line is ****ing miles away - and just like that, I stop running. :rolleyes:

    The great thing about running is that every race presents a new and exciting opportunity to **** things up :rolleyes:


    Bummer. What did you do then, though; walk to the finish, or get going again?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    ? Did you finish. Not like you to be so soft?

    TbL
    davedanon wrote: »
    Bummer. What did you do then, though; walk to the finish, or get going again?

    I stopped for 10/20 seconds?, then ran to the finish
    adrian522 wrote: »
    Was that a race report?

    It's the only part of the race that mattered!


    ... apart from that, eh, bit wet and windy out in Blessington, though the course was fairly sheltered. I warmed up on a stretch of beach, didn't realise we could run on the road until near the race (probably wouldn't have gone down as far as the finish line anyway, its a good 500m away from start are). All the race organisation was good, but all outside so can feel miserable on a day like that. Course was nice enough - mostly - I like running on closed country roads. Small enough field, so it sorted itself out pretty quickly, and I felt like I was in a decent position in the first half at least. Km 7 though is a beast, all uphill, not steep (34m gain) but never-ending. That really blew all my reserves and I dropped off the back of the group. Next 2k were downhill, I don't think my pace recovered but I did start to close again on the guys in front, and I could see there were a bunch of other casualties of the hill ahead of me too. Last few hundred metres to the finish line are downhill, which would make for a really good finish if you didn't **** it up:rolleyes:

    oh yeah, and the second M45 finished just in front of me, and collected the pensioner prize...

    will have to go back next year...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭Annie get your Run


    Blessington? Super race, love that route, very well organised but yes, when it's windy and wet not very pleasant hanging around for the start.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    RayCun wrote: »
    I stopped for 10/20 seconds?, then ran to the finish



    It's the only part of the race that mattered!


    ... apart from that, eh, bit wet and windy out in Blessington, though the course was fairly sheltered. I warmed up on a stretch of beach, didn't realise we could run on the road until near the race (probably wouldn't have gone down as far as the finish line anyway, its a good 500m away from start are). All the race organisation was good, but all outside so can feel miserable on a day like that. Course was nice enough - mostly - I like running on closed country roads. Small enough field, so it sorted itself out pretty quickly, and I felt like I was in a decent position in the first half at least. Km 7 though is a beast, all uphill, not steep (34m gain) but never-ending. That really blew all my reserves and I dropped off the back of the group. Next 2k were downhill, I don't think my pace recovered but I did start to close again on the guys in front, and I could see there were a bunch of other casualties of the hill ahead of me too. Last few hundred metres to the finish line are downhill, which would make for a really good finish if you didn't **** it up:rolleyes:

    oh yeah, and the second M45 finished just in front of me, and collected the pensioner prize...

    will have to go back next year...

    Possibly the only time we've both been in the same race. :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Possibly the only time we've both been in the same race. :p

    Was that not about 50 times too long for you? :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    RayCun wrote: »
    Was that not about 50 times too long for you? :pac:

    And about 50 times too steep!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Monday
    Platelet donation in the afternoon, so just a 5k jog in the morning

    Tuesday
    lap of UCD and home. Meant to do strides at the end but ran through the park and out again, daydreaming...

    Wednesday
    lap of UCD and in to work

    Thursday
    as Tuesday, but remembered strides

    Friday, as Wednesday

    Saturday
    I saw Paul Pollock had his training group do a session a couple of weeks ago - race a 5k, 3 minutes recovery, then run it again within 2 minutes of the first time. They did it in some Belfast parkrun, and it's a session that suits Tymon, you can do it without getting in the way of the parkrunners, so I thought I'd give it a shot.

    Half-completed.

    The bit I didn't get was the 5k race, the pace wasn't there, I finished just under 19 minutes. Kevin/thirstywork had jogged around to finish first, he jogged around again to drag me to the second 5k in under 20 minutes - probably ran faster on his cooldown :pac:

    Sunday
    Kids racing XC so I had to be out early, out the door around 6.30 for 2 hours up and around Phoenix Park.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    All the best in the morning Ray, run well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,623 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    And no walking...

    :)

    TbL


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    jaysus...

    To be honest, my running is pretty **** at the moment, so I could have arrived at the start line fresh and warmed up, tagged on to a good group of runners... and fallen off badly in the second half. I don't really feel I had a good race in me.

    As it was, I had a cold most of the week, just about mostly cleared up for Saturday. Left the house in good time :rolleyes: to join the tailback 2km away from exit 4. Spend the next hour looking at that 2k sign. Eventually got on to the Swords dual carriageway, and parked on the side of the road with another thousand cars. Jogged my way a couple of miles to the line, past a steady stream of walkers and (on the other side of the motorway) a double line of cars. Took off my t-shirt and tracksuit on the way, bumped into a guy from Tallaght who offered to take my bag to the bag drop - cheers! Wandered along the road, sweating buckets, through hundreds more people milling around, hearing hundreds more in the field beside me. This is the start line? There's a mat, I guess so - and off I went.

    You know the way at the start of a race you're not supposed to go weaving through people and trying to make up time? You can't really avoid it when you start 5? minutes late. Kept plugging away for a while anyway - thought my pace was okay but I can see on strava it was too slow even then. About 5k in, I lost gps, to tip things over into farce. No confidence, no idea how fast I was going, no one to chase, effort levels kept dropping gradually. I was still passing people most of the way in, but just on automatic, because that was how to get to the finish and get out of there.

    Anyway, decided to take most of this week off, I've had some ankle trouble for the last couple of weeks, it hasn't been getting worse but hasn't been getting better either. Back to the gym this week, haven't been in months. And start back on a plan on Monday...


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,623 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Are you still alive or have you been detained at some Nursing Home :)

    TbL


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    I've been keeping my head down, avoiding cross country races ;), and training

    three weeks into the Magness marathon plan, all going well, as long as my foot doesn't fall off...


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,623 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    RayCun wrote: »
    I've been keeping my head down, avoiding cross country races ;), and training

    three weeks into the Magness marathon plan, all going well, as long as my foot doesn't fall off...

    That's good, thought your ankle might have gotten worse. The odd update wouldn't go astray...

    TbL


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Ankle is still a bit dodgy. Sunday night - after a long day - it was a bit sore. Woke up during the night and was tossing and turning trying to find a comfortable position for it :rolleyes: Still a bit iffy since then. Aside from that...

    week 1 - 102k, long run was 22k, 2 recovery runs, 6 x 10 second hills, everything else easy

    week 2 - 117k, long run was 24k, blood donation on Monday but some extra runmutes because of a puncture, 3 recovery runs, 8 x 10 hills, and some steady miles

    week 3 - 118k, another couple of extra runmutes because of storm, 4 recovery runs, 12 x 200 @ 3k-mile pace with 200 jog recovery, 8 x 10 hills, long run of 26k with 8 x 45 second surges. That was an early start because the kids had their XC in the morning.

    No races planned before Waterford half


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,438 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Where’s the marathon Ray? Somewhere in Spain?

    Why Magness, out of interest. What does it do differently?


  • Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭PaulieYifter


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Where’s the marathon Ray? Somewhere in Spain?

    Why Magness, out of interest. What does it do differently?

    Not answering for Ray but Magness plan is great. Lots of alternating sessions - great progression in the plan - it’s like a pendulum swinging either side of marathon pace where the swing stays closer to MP the closer you get to the big day. Focus is on steady, marathon and LT paces. Lots of easy running too.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Is the plan form the Science of Running? Been meaning to give that a read for a while now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭PaulieYifter


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Is the plan form the Science of Running? Been meaning to give that a read for a while now.

    Yep - mileage is way too high for me to hit but you can take the key elements.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭El Caballo


    Not answering for Ray but Magness plan is great. Lots of alternating sessions - great progression in the plan - it’s like a pendulum swinging either side of marathon pace where the swing stays closer to MP the closer you get to the big day. Focus is on steady, marathon and LT paces. Lots of easy running too.

    I like that explanation of it, good metaphor for it. They call it funnel periodisation, Starts off with both non-specific speedwork and aerobic work in base phase which then funnel into more race specific training the closer you get to the race. The idea is that you will always stay in touch with different speeds during a training cycle, the intensity, volume and specificity just shift. This is the way pretty much all those top class Kenyan marathoners train or at least the principle is pretty much the same.

    Many people will be familiar with plans like P+D and Daniels etc. Those plans would be called linear periodisation. Each phase has one specific purpose, base is all about aerobic endurance and then you move onto threshold phase etc etc. The difference with Magness and other plans that use a funnel model is that it attacks training from two different points. Many people are aware that base training builds a foundation for more specific training but the idea behind Magness like training is that you also need a speed base for specific training. The idea is that you truly never totally abandon one aspect.

    Speed base Aerobic Base
    (non-specific) (non-specific)
    \ /
    \ /
    \ /
    \ /
    \ /
    Race Specific

    My rough little diagram above shows why it's called a funnel in simple terms. Speed development can be a bit of a confusing topic as many people think of speedwork as balls out grinding out 4xMile @5k as speedwork but there's a lot more to it than that. Early season Magness stuff focuses more on things like short hill sprints, alternating short sprints and generally progresses into 200''s which he really seems to like. All of these are used to improve your neuromuscular ability(how quickly your brain can send signals to the muscle to contract or more laymen, make you fast!).

    You hear many myths in training, one of the biggest being that you shouldn't do this or that in that phase(e.g speedwork all year round). Well, this kind of approach spits in the face of those ideas and makes a lot more sense once you kind of start to get a grasp on it. How can you expect to run good specific sessions if you haven't run fast in months etc. The main thing in my opinion to be taken from magnesses approach is that you should keep in touch with all paces year round but where you are in training that dictates the intensity and volume that you prioritise towards each.

    My graph didn't work:pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Where’s the marathon Ray? Somewhere in Spain?

    Why Magness, out of interest. What does it do differently?

    Rotterdam, beginning of April

    I got the Magness book last year, thought it was really good. It's funny, the training plans feel kind of tacked on at the end, like the publisher told him you can't write a running book without including training plans. He's really writing for coaches, who he would expect to put together plans for their athletes using the material in the rest of the book. But I'd rather be spoonfed :pac:

    Also, I should note that when I say I'm following the Magness plan, the actual Magness plan has about 120 miles for this week. I'm following the Fisher Price version :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    so tired

    Monday - recovery jogs in and out of work

    Tuesday - 8k in the morning, 12k in the afternoon

    Wednesday - supposed to be a tempo run in the morning, but got to Bushy and my stomach informed me that I hadn't planned my morning appropriately :rolleyes:
    out after work instead - 20 minutes, average 3.50

    Thursday - 13k on the way home from work

    Friday - 8 x (400, 200 recovery, 200, 200 recovery)

    Saturday - am 11k ish, including pacing Tymon
    8/9km pm

    Sunday - so tired....
    working the bag drop in the morning, which was fun, but an early start
    cycled out to the UCD flyover to watch the race come in, its a great spot
    then back home along the route
    then out for my own run, 27k around Tymon - 4 laps over the bridges and a extra km around the pond
    goddamn garmin went on me again, just after 10k - it seems to be the km alerts that break it? will try a hard reset on Tuesday, otherwise see what the warranty situation is


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭chickey2


    RayCun wrote: »
    so tired

    Hope your iron levels are OK! When did you donate platelets last?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭Annie get your Run


    RayCun wrote: »
    goddamn garmin went on me again, just after 10k - it seems to be the km alerts that break it? will try a hard reset on Tuesday, otherwise see what the warranty situation is

    Maybe try switching it to miles, see if it prefers that :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,438 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Well oiled bag drop machine as always! Much appreciated.

    Km alerts shouldn’t break garmin unless the battery is completely screwed! Never an issue with any of my watches anyway. Hard reset sounds like a good first troubleshooting step!


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    chickey2 wrote: »
    Hope your iron levels are OK! When did you donate platelets last?

    3 weeks ago

    its just today has me wrecked - lie-in tomorrow and two recovery runs, I'll be fine


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Maybe try switching it to miles, see if it prefers that :pac:

    it is a very old model :pac:


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