Smoking Ban reversal?

johnnyjb

Wertz wrote: »

The reason it's banned in hotels is fire safety not health of staff and patrons.

This should be revoked here but it won't be...it at the very least should be up to the individual licensee, allowing a separate room (not an exterior area that is cold and dark at this time of year) with ventilation, with no bar or any staff interaction with customers.

Common sense from the Dutch in response to the fears raised by small premises owners...you know, those people that pay rates and employ people. All the more reason it won't happen here.

BTW as an ex-smoker I agree it's great for a non smoker to be able to go out and avoid 2nd hand smoke and all the stink from clothes or whatever...but where is the fairplay for those who do wish to go out, have a drink and a smoke in the comfort of indoors?

Im a moderate drinker and a non smoker and im sick of smokers and alcoholics in this country being treated like they have a real disease. They bloody choose to spend their money on these things.

Its a pub not a smoking room so therefore the idea is to accomadate drinkers first and foremost, ive no bother with smokers in general but keep it to themselves, its an air bound drug, why should non smokers care bout smokers when smokers couldnt give a crap that their destroying non smokers lungs ,

but sure its alright its ireland ,go down the pub for a craic ,ah shut up ya sissy its only smoke. Bloody delighted i have self control and not ruled by cancer sticks (no offence intended to anyone here)

Pace2008

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

Well, they could have their smokies at home and then go out?

Do you even know what cigarettes are?

ScumLord

It would be the Dutch who try and readjust to a fairer system that's more considerate of every one and their businesses. I would love to live there it's just seems like one of the most sensible countries in the world.

Celly Smunt

irelandrover wrote: »

So what your're talking about is just a fancy smoking room. One which most large pubs have already. Except for the small local bar where you say that as long as it only has one or two staff you can smoke indoors?

you don't get it,the whole idea of the 1-2 staff part is to limit big bars,clubs,restraunts etc. turning into a complete smoking establishment.

Nodin

ScumLord wrote: »

It would be the Dutch who try and readjust to a fairer system that's more considerate of every one and their businesses. I would love to live there it's just seems like one of the most sensible countries in the world.

...now and again you'd be walking down the street, see some example of sense and tolerance, and have to run off before you burst into tears....

Wertz

johnnyjb wrote: »

Im a moderate drinker and a non smoker and im sick of smokers and alcoholics in this country being treated like they have a real disease. They bloody choose to spend their money on these things.

Its a pub not a smoking room so therefore the idea is to accomadate drinkers first and foremost, ive no bother with smokers in general but keep it to themselves, its an air bound drug, why should non smokers care bout smokers when smokers couldnt give a crap that their destroying non smokers lungs ,

but sure its alright its ireland ,go down the pub for a craic ,ah shut up ya sissy its only smoke. Bloody delighted i have self control and not ruled by cancer sticks (no offence intended to anyone here)

I'm both a moderate drinker and a moderate smoker (when I drink). Of course we choose to spend money on the things. (I'll have to disgaree with your point on alcoholism not being a disease though.)

When the ban was introduced some of the few cigar smoking clubs in the country wished to be exempt...that was disallowed.
If I wanted to open a smoking room (as opposed to a pub) I still wouldn't be allowed do so under the current regs. I could sell them the fags and cigars but they'd still have to smoke them in an approved area ((at least two walls open to the air afaik).
Keep it to themselves...I actually agree. But go out into the cold and do it. Not so much agreement there. No allowances for a bar owner to cater to all his customer's desires by having a sectioned off, ventilated, warm, lit area.

I'm not being Oirish and telling people it'll be grand or whatever...I just fail to see the logic in allowing 20% of your potential customers be treated like they don't matter as much as the other 80%...

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I think a lot of people would stop going to pubs.
I can't imagine going back to sitting in a horrible smoky room all night

I think most people have already stopped going to pubs... trade is way down since the ban.

Im a smoker, but Im ok with the ban.

Pace2008

ScumLord wrote: »

It would be the Dutch who try and readjust to a fairer system that's more considerate of every one and their businesses. I would love to live there it's just seems like one of the most sensible countries in the world.

There's a horribly prevalent attitude here that there's a specific, "correct" way to live one's life, and everyone else's business is yours as well.

prinz

Pace2008 wrote: »

There's a horribly prevalent attitude here that there's a specific, "correct" way to live one's life, and everyone else's business is yours as well.

You're right, everyone should be allowed have a **** wherever they want.

Copper23

trish23 wrote: »

Can't see it happening in Ireland...
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1104/smokingban.html

I think you're missing the point of this....

"Small.. owner-operated.. Netherlands"

I'd be willing to assume this applies to "coffee shop" style places where the outlawing of indoor tobacco smoking doesn't exactly line up with the legalization of other indoor smoking activities.
In an open bar situation i doubt anything is being reversed.

Nodin

Pace2008 wrote: »

There's a horribly prevalent attitude here that there's a specific, "correct" way to live one's life, and everyone else's business is yours as well.

Obey, follow the herd, shut your mouth and stop causing trouble - we know whats good for you. Though society is more liberal now, its still much the same attitude as it ever was.

ScumLord

prinz wrote: »

You're right, everyone should be allowed have a **** wherever they want.

In the Netherlands they'd probably have a place where you could do that. They probably wouldn't make use of it but they'd like to have the right to do it if the mood hit them.

Copper23 wrote: »

I'd be willing to assume this applies to "coffee shop" style places where the outlawing of indoor tobacco smoking doesn't exactly line up with the legalization of other indoor smoking activities.
In an open bar situation i doubt anything is being reversed.

The ban wasn't enforced that much in coffeeshops and the locals were actually using them to have a fag in before going into work.

Nodin

prinz wrote: »

You're right, everyone should be allowed have a **** wherever they want.

And that rather lovely post proves my point.

prinz

ScumLord wrote: »

In the Netherlands they'd probably have a place where you could do that. They probably wouldn't make use of it but they'd like to have the right to do it if the mood hit them.

I am sure there are places here too.

Pace2008

prinz wrote: »

You're right, everyone should be allowed have a **** wherever they want.

Yes, of course that's what I'm saying. The world exists in black and white, and anyone expressing any remotely liberal views is obviously advocating all-out anarchy.

Nodin

Pace2008 wrote: »

Yes, of course that's what I'm saying. The world exists in black and white, and anyone expressing any remotely liberal is obviously advocating all-out anarchy.

You need clamping down on, you do.

prinz

Pace2008 wrote: »

Yes, of course that's what I'm saying. The world exists in black and white, and anyone expressing any remotely liberal is obviously advocating all-out anarchy.

We all draw a line somewhere. As a society we do decide that the is a 'correct way to live'. Big boo hoo. We either vote on it, or we change the government.

Nodin

prinz wrote: »

We all draw a line somewhere. As a society we do decide that the is a 'correct way to live'. .

Funny, I thought the Western European way was all about tolerance of others and different ways of doing things.

prinz wrote: »

Big boo hoo.

prinz wrote: »

You're right, everyone should be allowed have a **** wherever they want..

....I see a pattern emerging here. Is there some reaction from Pace2008 you're aiming for?

CdeC

No way, one of the few good things to happen here and I am a smoker.
Keep the ban

Wertz

prinz wrote: »

. As a society we do decide that the is a 'correct way to live'.

Do "we"? Or do elected representatives go off out and adopt the recommendations of experts and consultants in several fields to tell us how we should be doing it.
I don't recall anyone polling anyone on a smoking ban or much anything else (not saying we should have a referendum for every little thing)...I don't even recall that much of a public consultation on it.

prinz

Nodin wrote: »

Funny, I thought the Western European way was all about tolerance of others and different ways of doing things.

You thought wrong obviously. Should we be tolerant of people who drive dangerously just because it's their "way"? Should we be tolerant of littering? Etc etc etc Nope. Even in Western Europe we as societies decide there is a 'best way'.... even in the Netherlands.

Nodin wrote: »

....I see a pattern emerging here. Is there some reaction from Pace2008 you're aiming for?

Perhaps you should take some ink blot tests too.

prinz

Wertz wrote: »

Do "we"? Or do elected representatives go off out and adopt the recommendations of experts and consultants in several fields to tell us how we should be doing it.
I don't recall anyone polling anyone on a smoking ban or much anything else (not saying we should have a referendum for every little thing)...I don't even recall that much of a public consultation on it.

That's how our political system works. Don't like it, vote for the other guy who will reverse the smoking ban (or whatever).

Nodin

prinz wrote: »

You thought wrong obviously. Should we be tolerant of people who drive dangerously jsut because it's their "way"? Should we be tolerant of littering? Etc etc etc Nope. Even in Western Europe we as societies decide there is a 'best way'.... even in the Netherlands.

So now you're muddying the waters with nonsense. Theres a shock. Never saw that coming after the "****" remark.

prinz wrote: »

Perhaps you should take some ink blot tests too.

No, I just find your reaction to somebody who had the insane audacity to state the wild opinion

There's a horribly prevalent attitude here that there's a specific, "correct" way to live one's life, and everyone else's business is yours as well.

both amusing and illuminating.

prinz

Nodin wrote: »

So now you're muddying the waters with nonsense. Theres a shock. Never saw that coming after the "****" remark..

What's nonsense about it? Seriously...

jackiebaron

johnnyjb wrote: »

Im a moderate drinker and a non smoker and im sick of smokers and alcoholics in this country being treated like they have a real disease. They bloody choose to spend their money on these things.

But alcoholism IS a disease. Any doctor will tell you that. Your problem is that you want zero tolerance policies as long as they don't impact you. And that right there is typically Irish and immature as well.

wrote:

Its a pub not a smoking room so therefore the idea is to accomadate drinkers first and foremost, ive no bother with smokers in general but keep it to themselves, its an air bound drug, why should non smokers care bout smokers when smokers couldnt give a crap that their destroying non smokers lungs ,

Well, my friend, pub is short for PUBLIC HOUSE...you know...a house where the public could go for alcohol, food, tobacco, warmth and maybe even some 'games of chance' like cards or "pitch and toss".
The idea was never "priority 1: drinkers, everyone else second place". Where'd you get that idea?

Jaxxy

As a smoker I have no problem with the ban at all. I can't see the likelihood of us following the lead of the Dutch and reversing the ban though to be completely honest, I don't see that happening.

Having said that in the beginning when the smoking ban came into play I know a lot of smokers who declared they would never go to the pub again but naturally that didn't last long. With that logic applied I do believe that non-smokers declaring they would never set foot into a pub again if the ban was reversed is a bit naive.

Do you stay in your apartment when you go abroad? Avoid pubs and clubs and restaurants when you're on holidays in a country that don't enforce the ban? No, of course you don't. So why would you do that in your own country?

Wertz

OldGoat wrote: »

Find a pub with better facilities?

If you can't be arsed complaining about the quality of the smoking area in your chosen local pub then you deserve what you get tbh.
The quality of the smoking area is a major factor when I am making a decision on where to go.

..anjd that's fine in the right area, Dublin being an obvious one, where there's a large choice of venues.
Transpose that to small rural towns or villages where there might be one or two places at most, business is already down ( in part due to smoking ban perhaps) and the money may not be there to tart up the beer garden/front door. For many it's take it or leave it.
These are the places where the ban has hit the owners and the punters alike...they'd be the same type of places (small, family/owner run) that the Dutch are targetting with their revocation.

prinz wrote: »

That's how our political system works. Don't like it, vote for the other guy who will reverse the smoking ban (or whatever).

That's an argument for a lot of things...trouble is the people running for election don't put stuff like that in their manifesto because they get dragged all over the media by the like of ASH or whatever other lobby group/quango for endangering public health or other such outlandish stuff. The hysteria is deafening when they talk now of further bans in public outdoor places, never mind talk of a re-think on current regs.
We never revoke enacted laws in this country...we merely add to them. Once a law/regulation is in, that's it. On to the next issue, nothing to see here. If it's been badly implemented in the first instance then it's usually tough sh*t, live with it.
...and that's what we get to do.

prinz

Wertz wrote: »

..anjd that's fine in the right area, Dublin being an obvious one, where there's a large choice of venues.
Transpose that to small rural towns or villages where there might be one or two places at most, business is already down ( in part due to smoking ban perhaps) and the money may not be there to tart up the beer garden/front door. For many it's take it or leave it..

What about the people in these small rural towns and villages where there may only be one or two places and they don't want smoking inside? They can just lump it and travel to the next town - versus the smoker just standing outside for less than 5 minutes? I understand the argument but it cuts both ways as these things usually do.

AAAAAAAHHH

johnnyjb wrote: »

Im a moderate drinker and a non smoker and im sick of smokers and alcoholics in this country being treated like they have a real disease. They bloody choose to spend their money on these things.

Its a pub not a smoking room so therefore the idea is to accomadate drinkers first and foremost, ive no bother with smokers in general but keep it to themselves, its an air bound drug, why should non smokers care bout smokers when smokers couldnt give a crap that their destroying non smokers lungs ,

but sure its alright its ireland ,go down the pub for a craic ,ah shut up ya sissy its only smoke. Bloody delighted i have self control and not ruled by cancer sticks (no offence intended to anyone here)

I'm delighted I'm not a self righteous prick (no offence intended to anyone here).

Osgoodisgood

Wertz wrote: »

Smoke at home and then go out? Smoking isn't like drinking...you don't top up the tank and then go out and sit over a few pints all night. There's plenty of people who ponly smoke when they drink (me being one)
Clean people? lol get over yourself...plenty of non smokers I've met with personal hygiene issues or an aversion to teeth brushing.

Hmmmm, my sarcasm skills appear to be failing me. I didn't think anyone sensible would take my comments literally!