The game is up

Sticky_Fingers

Augmerson wrote: »

Priceless.

Don't matter how much it costs, we can't afford it anyway

senordingdong

bleg wrote: »

Yea but we might be better off with the IMF than having European Finance Ministers devising Irish policy.

I agree.
Irish politicians are still prioritising banks and developers (their buddies in other words), and even though they were told not to bail out Anglo, they did.
They insist that it's needed to save the country.
Independant assesments say it's not needed, and FF have already shown themselves to be either wrong about everything, or to be liars.

We need someone detached from Ireland to fix this.

digitally-yours

its all looking very scary... I would say December 7 is the judgement day provided it can continue till that time.

:eek: Irish 10 Year bond spread
ire.jpg
and
The time is running out

bleg

It's no longer a question of if, it's a matter of when.

digitally-yours

This budget deficit chart makes Greece looks good....

also remember when watching this chart that Ireland has a population of 4 million...ish..

I can understand why RTE and all the media are trying to talk up the country.
The reality is that the flight to safety is happening and last person to find out that he has been screwed will be the Joe public....


budget.jpg

Amhran Nua

digitally-yours wrote: »

:eek: Irish 10 Year bond spread

Jaysis. Okay, so we can't borrow from the markets, which means we're entirely dependent on the ECB and basically Europe to keep paying for the guards, teachers, nurses, streetlights and so on. This is because the government borrowed loads of cash from them to pay off everyone Anglo, the builder's bank, owed money to, so even if the IMF did come in we'd still be over a barrel. We've been done right and proper.

I don't know about anyone else here but I've no intention of having my grandchildren paying off the interest on the gambling debts of the red braces brigade and the golden circle, and I've no intention of being bound by agreements made by people like Lenihan and Cowen.

So whats the solution? Balance the books, make sure we don't spend more than we earn in tax revenues, and then politely inform Europe that the debt is going to be restructured to exclude that element which should not be by rights the responsbility of the Irish people. This will take a little time, so we'd need to pay up for a few years until things have been analysed and adjusted, but it is doable.

joe316

That bloomberg link is slightly behind the latest figure is 7.8%, we'll hit 8 before the end of the day. Its over people.

JonJoeDali

8% is a fantasy rate.

There is no volume on the Irish sovereign debt market.

The real rate is probably something like 10%.

In any case, we're going to be borrowing @5% from the EU stability fund/IMF come March.

digitally-yours

Move evidence of flight to safety...

Russia Bars Irish, Spanish Debt From Sovereign-Wealth Fund Investment List

digitally-yours

JonJoeDali wrote: »

8% is a fantasy rate.

There is no volume on the Irish sovereign debt market.

The real rate is probably something like 10%.

In any case, we're going to be borrowing @5% from the EU stability fund/IMF come March.

Very valid point

thebaz

I think the IMF involvement is just a fear tactic - its like the IMF are going to roll into Dublin in a military convoy, close all hospitals, force the nation to eat bread and water and go back to 1984

ive heard the IMF are actually here , which makes more sense than a high profile invasion - and as for the fear imposed by the Hedge Fund speculators, another 2 fingers , keeping up the rates and youll get nothing - Nothing - now **** off and let us live

nice1franko

Grim...

What is likely to happen if IMF came in?

bleg

thebaz wrote: »

I think the IMF involvement is just a fear tactic - its like the IMF are going to roll into Dublin in a military convoy, close all hospitals, force the nation to eat bread and water and go back to 1984

It'll be tough, better start preparing now.

nice1franko

bleg wrote: »

It'll be tough, better start preparing now.

Start saving money? Start moving money outside the country? Start stockpiling tinned goods?

mickydoomsux

joe316 wrote: »

That bloomberg link is slightly behind the latest figure is 7.8%, we'll hit 8 before the end of the day. Its over people.

Well, considering we're not going to be borrowing until the middle of next year, the rate could hit 100% by the end of the day and it still wouldn't matter.

mickydoomsux

nice1franko wrote: »

Grim...

What is likely to happen if IMF came in?

They'll, wait for it,.......... advise us on what cuts to make.

Scary stuff, eh?

nice1franko

I'm lost .... so what's with all the doomsday talk then?

bleg

nice1franko wrote: »

I'm lost .... so what's with all the doomsday talk then?

No matter what the govt do with the 4 year plan/budget we're still probably going to have to borrow at prohibitive rates.

flanzer

nice1franko wrote: »

I'm lost .... so what's with all the doomsday talk then?

Have you not heard? The IMF are coming..... oooooooooo..... some scary shít........ If you believe the media, it's going to be something like the image I've attached

Rabble Rabble

So what do the bond markets want? If we are not getting any reductions in interest rates by slashing in the budgets, then lets not do that. Thats the only reason to do it.

Of course we should renege on the bank deals too.

mickydoomsux

nice1franko wrote: »

I'm lost .... so what's with all the doomsday talk then?

It something that the barstool economists trot out as a doomsday situation because they don't understand what the IMF actually is.

Don't get me wrong, we're in a bad spot, but it's easily fixable by balancing the books a bit better. The budget and 4 year plan will go some way towards doing that.

senordingdong

mickydoomsux wrote: »

They'll, wait for it,.......... advise us on what cuts to make.

Scary stuff, eh?

In the event of this, is there even any obligation for the DoF to act on the advice.

Amhran Nua

senordingdong wrote: »

In the event of this, is there even any obligation for the DoF to act on the advice.

Nope, but if they don't nobody will lend to Ireland.

bleg

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

So what do the bond markets want? If we are not getting any reductions in interest rates by slashing in the budgets, then lets not do that. Thats the only reason to do it.

Of course we should renege on the bank deals too.

Think about it, would you lend money to somebody if you knew they were using that money to live way beyond their means, and have shown no indication that they're going to cut back?


We're not entitled to borrow anything.

Amhran Nua

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

Thats the only reason to do it.

That and we can't actually pay the budget.

Rabble Rabble

bleg wrote: »

Think about it, would you lend money to somebody if you knew they were using that money to live way beyond their means, and have shown no indication that they're going to cut back?


We're not entitled to borrow anything.

We are clearly trying to not live beyond your means. The thing is if the bond market doesn't react to that then we should look elsewhere. The idea of cuts being a good idea depends on the interest rates going down - this is what happened in Ray McSharry's cuts - otherwise the thing is a vicious cycle, we take money out of the economy, the economy tanks some more, debt to gdp increases, and interest rates still go up. We would be better off with a stimulus.

bleg

We have to do the same no matter where we look.

HavingCrack

Bizarre and economically insane as this sounds, theoretically what would happen if we just started printing tonnes of money to pay off our debts?? Would inflation run wild or would it be different as we're part of a single European currency??

th3 s1aught3r

There was a trader on the radio who knows a lot about the bond market and he said that the markets cannot understand why the Irish government are protecting the public sector with the Croke Park agreement at this stage in the crisis. And they have no intention of lending money to Ireland while this government remain in power

40yo business man

from reading these and other posts on this site it seems 95% of irish have just thrown in the towel and given up and just want to bitch, and point the finger etc, etc,
If this energy was put into trying to come up with some constructive ideas saving or generating money back into the economy then we would have a hope.

Tesco :- Ireland the biggest profit margin country in their group only behind Korea i think it was.at what cost? our local shops/butchers/milkmen/bakeries etc, which if people check are no more expensive.

Uk:- new proposal to deport foreigners who are convicted of crimes (mabye small crimes which dont warrant a sentance, chuck them out, and more serious crimes make them serve shorter sentances and then chuck them out???) €77,222 average to keep prisoner in Jail for a year let alone legal costs before. If we fecked around in the states we would be fecked out quick enough. If we did before we went there we would not be let in.
God we are a soft touch.

And no im not racist in any way, ive some good foreign friends. Lot of irish should be fecked out as well but we would never get away with that.

Uk:- Private number plates on cars, big business (vat/profits for the government)

Uk:- if you build your private house you can claim (as a private person) the vat back on the materials you use. Surely that would stimulate the building somewhat or get a few off the dole.

Its frustrating to listen to some people bitching so much and also then stupidly do the best they can to send as much of their money out of the country as they can. How much money goes out of the country every year in cars alone?? i know i know, we must look after out motor trade, but at what cost? send out hundreds of millions to save tens of.

sorry for the rant people but we have changed (a lot of irish) into a horrible race of people who think they are entitled to a lot. Wake up, we are entitled to nothing. So get proactive and do your bit.