The First Date Shag Consequences..

Reward · 10-01-2011 8:40pm

midlandsmissus wrote: »

It's happened to me and my friends, and see the poster above saying his spanish friends screen women this way.

It exists. We as a society know it. You know it happens, and is prevalent.

Do you believe that there are equal, opposite or more serious sexual double standards that effect men in society?

liah · 10-01-2011 8:42pm

Reward wrote: »

Yeah well the thing is, when I hear people saying "Ive never seen it, but I know it exists" I have to wonder if they are just repeating feminist dogma.

I never said I hadn't seen it. I simply said I've never been called a slut by someone I've slept with (that I'm aware of) for having a one night stand. But I've seen many girls get called sluts behind their backs (and to their faces) and I'm sure it was thrown around about me, too.

Not to mention the amount of threads where some men explicitly state that they will have one night stands but won't be in a relationship with a girl who does.

Reward · 10-01-2011 9:06pm

liah wrote: »

I never said I hadn't seen it. I simply said I've never been called a slut by someone I've slept with (that I'm aware of) for having a one night stand. But I've seen many girls get called sluts behind their backs (and to their faces) and I'm sure it was thrown around about me, too.

Not to mention the amount of threads where some men explicitly state that they will have one night stands but won't be in a relationship with a girl who does.

How often have you seen women slut shaming and spreading malicious gossip about other womens sexual behaviour verses men doing it? I ask because I tend to view slut shaming as more something that women do.

liah · 10-01-2011 9:22pm

Reward wrote: »

How often have you seen women slut shaming and spreading malicious gossip about other womens sexual behaviour verses men doing it? I ask because I tend to view slut shaming as more something that women do.

But we're not talking about that; we're talking about why a man won't date a woman who he shagged on the first date. Bringing that up was simply to illustrate that I know it exists.

For the record I agree women are horrible for gossip, but in the context of this thread it's not women trying to sleep with other women.

Reward · 10-01-2011 9:27pm

liah wrote: »

But we're not talking about that; we're talking about why a man won't date a woman who he shagged on the first date. Bringing that up was simply to illustrate that I know it exists.

For the record I agree women are horrible for gossip, but in the context of this thread it's not women trying to sleep with other women.

Well, Ive slept with women who told me that I was "too much of a womaniser" for a relationship, I was seen as just for sex and fun, I don't see why men shouldn't be able to make the same call, especially when they are factoring in risk of paternity fraud.

The female slut shaming is important, because feminists berate and hate on men for slut shaming while ignoring the source of most of it (as well as their own double standards).

liah · 10-01-2011 9:30pm

Reward wrote: »

Well, Ive slept with women who told me that I was "too much of a womaniser" for a relationship, I was seen as just for sex and fun, I don't see why men shouldn't be able to make the same call, especially when they are factoring in risk of paternity fraud.

Then you should've called them out on being hypocrites, because that's what they are, if that was the only reason. If a guy slept with me on the first date and decided that because I'd slept with him I wasn't worth it I would certainly call him the hell out on it, because it's ridiculous.

You seem to be mistaking my argument as "well men should do one thing and women should do another," and that's not my argument at all. I'm using men doing it to women because that's where my experiences lie and that's where the double standard comes up more frequently from what I've witnessed. It's not a gender war by any means though, hypocrites are hypocrites regardless of sex.

Johnny Derpp · 10-01-2011 9:33pm

In fairness, if you are going to be bothered going out on a date when all you want is a shag, maybe you should just consider one of those sex sites instead, like plenty of fish of ****book.

Reward · 10-01-2011 9:35pm

liah wrote: »

Then you should've called them out on being hypocrites, because that's what they are, if that was the only reason. If a guy slept with me on the first date and decided that because I'd slept with him I wasn't worth it I would certainly call him the hell out on it, because it's ridiculous.

You seem to be mistaking my argument as "well men should do one thing and women should do another," and that's not my argument at all. I'm using men doing it to women because that's where my experiences lie and that's where the double standard comes up more frequently from what I've witnessed. It's not a gender war by any means though, hypocrites are hypocrites regardless of sex.

No, these women were not hypocrites, in my opinion they were perfectly entitled to protect their emotional wellbeing in anyway they saw fit as well as enjoy casual sex without commitment.

liah · 10-01-2011 9:39pm

Reward wrote: »

No, these women were not hypocrites, in my opinion they were perfectly entitled to protect their emotional wellbeing in anyway they saw fit as well as enjoy casual sex.

Where on earth is the logic in any of that? It's hypocrisy if you do one thing and won't let another person into your life for doing the exact same thing as you! It's bizarre. How frequently and with whom they have sex has no bearing on the type of person they are. They obviously think sex on the first date is okay if they do it themselves, yet they punish the other person for it?

I give up. This is something I will never in a million years understand and I hope I don't, frankly.

Reward · 10-01-2011 9:41pm

liah wrote: »

Where on earth is the logic in any of that? It's hypocrisy if you do one thing and won't let another person into your life for doing the exact same thing as you! It's bizarre. How frequently and with whom they have sex has no bearing on the type of person they are. They obviously think sex on the first date is okay if they do it themselves, yet they punish the other person for it?

I give up. This is something I will never in a million years understand and I hope I don't, frankly.

Politically correct feminist dogma is stopping you getting it, people are free to make their own choices in life. Women run more sexual standards than men, and slut shame more than men.

Otis Driftwood · 10-01-2011 10:21pm

Alot of opinion being presented as fact in this thread,I would again like to remind everyone of the recent charter amendment.Opinions are as always welcome,brow beating is not.Thanks.

liah · 10-01-2011 10:35pm

Reward wrote: »

Politically correct feminist dogma is stopping you getting it, people are free to make their own choices in life. Women run more sexual standards than men, and slut shame more than men.

I'm not a feminist nor do I pay attention to feminism. I get it just fine, people refuse to admit that they're acting hypocritically. It really is that simple. Of course people are free to make their own choices in life, that was never once argued by me, I wholeheartedly believe that. But it also doesn't mean they're not hypocrites; they are.

Darlughda · 10-01-2011 10:45pm

Reward wrote: »

How is germain relevant today,

Gosh, where could I start?
Aside from her being one of the pivotal figures of the feminist movement, her seminal work 'The Female Eunach', is still essential reading for so many women who are revolted by their own genitals, many of whom frequent LL, PI and RI.

Reward wrote: »

the last book of hers I remember was her pro-pedarast one.

In much the same way that Nabokov's 'Lolita' is a paedophile fantasy. There are the questions asked in both regarding the innocence and beauty of the young man/or woman turning towards adulthood.

Reward wrote: »

Given that you are such a warrior against double standards

Why thank you, young sir.

Reward wrote: »

you are no doubt angry about societies acceptance of her sexualising 14 year old boys.

About as much as I am angry about society's 'acceptance' of Nabokov sexualising a 14 year old girl.

Reward wrote: »

Women that absorb the writings of feminist bigots tend to become feminist bigots themselves,

Oh dear. FYI, I am not a huge Greer fan, as I prefer equality above the proving of misogyny which seems to be her raison d'étre. But a silly statement likes that tells volumes about you, Reward, than anyone else.

Reward · 10-01-2011 11:27pm

Darlughda wrote: »

Gosh, where could I start?
Aside from her being one of the pivotal figures of the feminist movement, her seminal work 'The Female Eunach', is still essential reading for so many women who are revolted by their own genitals, many of whom frequent LL, PI and RI.

In much the same way that Nabokov's 'Lolita' is a paedophile fantasy. There are the questions asked in both regarding the innocence and beauty of the young man/or woman turning towards adulthood.

Why thank you, young sir.

About as much as I am angry about society's 'acceptance' of Nabokov sexualising a 14 year old girl.

Oh dear. FYI, I am not a huge Greer fan, as I prefer equality above the proving of misogyny which seems to be her raison d'étre. But a silly statement likes that tells volumes about you, Reward, than anyone else.

Greer is a bit of a sensationalist and she has a tendency to project, confusing her own hatred of men with men hating women IMO. She is increasingly irrelevant these days becuuse, male sexuality is demonised more so than female, men are more restricted in what they can wear, women operate more sexual double standards and slut shame more so than men... the world has moved on from greer and she knows it, the last time she got any attention was that time she danced on a dead mans grave, for the publicity.

Darlughda · 10-01-2011 11:34pm

Reward wrote: »

Greer is a bit of a sensationalist and she has a tendency to project, confusing her own hatred of men with men hating women IMO. She is increasingly irrelevant these days becuuse, male sexuality is demonised more so than female, men are more restricted in what they can wear, women operate more sexual double standards and slut shame more so than men... the world has moved on from greer and she knows it, the last time she got any attention was that time she danced on a dead mans grave, for the publicity.

Well. fair enough if that is your opinion. Although, I am not a huge fan of Greer's, despite your silly assertion in your last post, I am tired of men bleating hatred about her when they know nothing of her and her work.

I admire the woman greatly, and think she has one of the most interesting intellectual minds to come out of that whole 60s/70s feminist revolution.

Nonetheless, this thread is about first date shag consequences.
So, tell me Reward. Jokes aside, if you met a hot woman for a first date and after a couple of drinks she was dying for a shag, would that change how you would feel about her next day?

midlandsmissus · 10-01-2011 11:35pm

Reward wrote: »

How often have you seen women slut shaming and spreading malicious gossip about other womens sexual behaviour verses men doing it? I ask because I tend to view slut shaming as more something that women do.

I can say I've never heard a woman call another woman a slut, but I've heard men do plenty times.

Reward · 11-01-2011 12:31am

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I can say I've never heard a woman call another woman a slut, but I've heard men do plenty times.

I'm sorry but I'm calling bull****, and if you want to see whore stigmatising by women, go look at the prostitution legislation thread.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 11-01-2011 12:32am

For what it's worth I was out on a "first date" last weekend, and at the end of it she came back to mine. I was expecting sex at this point to be honest, but she refused and slept fully clothed, quoting this sort of '3rd date' lark. Fair enough, it was a good night anyway.

Decided now I dont really want to see her again, and probably wont bother.

What will she think now, if we hadve had sex she wouldve probably thought like some of the posters here that was the reason I dont particularly want to see her again, when that has nothing to do with it.

Definitely if anything if we hadve had sex I would be more likely to want to see her again (not saying i definitely would but it would certainly help).

She has texted earlier today suggesting going out again, and im sure sex would be on the cards then or if not then absolutely the following time, but I dont want to bother now and shes made a big deal out of it. It wouldnt be worth it, if i shagged her after that long then id feel like i owe her something or something.. if you get me. And I couldnt blank her after 2 -3 dates and sex, and as a result now ive decided im not gonna see her at all.

If it hadve happened last weekend, who knows what it might have turned into.

Reward · 11-01-2011 12:34am

nm wrote: »

For what it's worth I was out on a "first date" last weekend, and at the end of it she came back to mine. I was expecting sex at this point to be honest, but she refused and slept fully clothed.

I dont really want to see her again, and probably wont bother.

What will she think now, if we hadve had sex she wouldve probably thought like some of the posters here that was the reason I dont particularly want to see her again, when that has nothing to do with it.

Definitely if anything if we hadve had sex I would be more likely to want to see her again (not saying i definitely would but it would certainly help).

She has texted earlier today suggesting going out again, and im sure sex would be on the cards then or if not then absolutely the following time, but I dont want to bother now and shes made a big deal out of it. It wouldnt be worth it, if i shagged her after that long then id feel like i owe her something or something.. if you get me. And I couldnt blank her after 2 -3 dates and sex, and as a result now ive decided im not gonna see her at all.

If it hadve happened last weekend, who knows what it might have turned into.

In this case you will likely be accused of "only being after one thing".

Reward · 11-01-2011 12:37am

Darlughda wrote: »

Well. fair enough if that is your opinion. Although, I am not a huge fan of Greer's, despite your silly assertion in your last post, I am tired of men bleating hatred about her when they know nothing of her and her work.

I admire the woman greatly, and think she has one of the most interesting intellectual minds to come out of that whole 60s/70s feminist revolution.

Nonetheless, this thread is about first date shag consequences.
So, tell me Reward. Jokes aside, if you met a hot woman for a first date and after a couple of drinks she was dying for a shag, would that change how you would feel about her next day?

No not at all, I prefer people to be upfront about liking sex for sex, if the person was acting like they were withholding sex until commitment has been secured, it wouldnt be for me, thats my prerogative, a woman looking for long term commitment might screen me out, thats her prerogative.

OutlawPete · 11-01-2011 12:47am

Darlughda wrote: »

Have you ever bothered reading her books?

Yes, hence the comment.

Most men that I have come across, do not think the way that is being presented in this thread. I NEVER hear women being called sluts and slappers and 'she is only good for one thing' etc etc. As I said before, I don't believe that there is a genuine double standard, just the perception of one. Any comments that I have heard from men with regards to women being apt for a ONS but not for a relationship are more than mirrored by the women I have heard conversing with regards to men.

I have lost count of how many times I have heard women talk about some men not being "marriage material" and how they broke up with a guy cause he was too clingy etc. When a mate of mine has a ONS, he doesn't talk about not seeing women again because they had amazing sex but they wish the women would have waited, I'm not sure where all this is coming from to be honest.

The main criteria that I have noticed over the years from guys on what tends to make them want to date a women or not is almost always how sound they where. Being a "bitch" or just coming across as "high maintenance" or the type that has a "check list" in their purse of what their man MUST have, are what makes a guy not call a woman after a ONS, in my experience at least.

It has little or nothing to do with the sex that happened.

I think what is being confused here is not men choosing not to call a woman based on her sexual promiscuousness, but men not calling women because all they wanted from them was sex.

These are two different things entirely.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 11-01-2011 12:47am

Reward wrote: »

In this case you will likely be accused of "only being after one thing".

So you're damned if you do and you're damned if you dont?

If I was only after one thing then I'd just meet her again and get that thing. Im not after anything in particular, my seeing her again or not seeing her again isnt based on that. At least not solely that, but whatever amount of normal factors (that now I suppose being one of them as she seems to consider sex some sort of reward she gives me).

Point is, I would definitely have been more likely to want to call her now if that hadve happened. Not the other way around.

Reward · 11-01-2011 12:50am

nm wrote: »

So you're damned if you do and you're damned if you dont?

If I was only after one thing then I'd just meet her again and get that thing. Im not after anything in particular, my seeing her again or not seeing her again isnt based on that. At least not solely that, but whatever amount of normal factors, (that now I suppose being one of them as she seems to consider sex some sort of reward she gives me.)

Sounds like she views sex as some form of leverage.

midlandsmissus · 11-01-2011 1:40am

nm wrote: »

For what it's worth I was out on a "first date" last weekend, and at the end of it she came back to mine. I was expecting sex at this point to be honest, but she refused and slept fully clothed, quoting this sort of '3rd date' lark. Fair enough, it was a good night anyway.

Decided now I dont really want to see her again, and probably wont bother.

What will she think now, if we hadve had sex she wouldve probably thought like some of the posters here that was the reason I dont particularly want to see her again, when that has nothing to do with it.

Definitely if anything if we hadve had sex I would be more likely to want to see her again (not saying i definitely would but it would certainly help).

She has texted earlier today suggesting going out again, and im sure sex would be on the cards then or if not then absolutely the following time, but I dont want to bother now and shes made a big deal out of it. It wouldnt be worth it, if i shagged her after that long then id feel like i owe her something or something.. if you get me. And I couldnt blank her after 2 -3 dates and sex, and as a result now ive decided im not gonna see her at all.

If it hadve happened last weekend, who knows what it might have turned into.

You know that's very interesting to read NM, thanks for that. Maybe women have it wrongly ingrained in them thinking men will think they are sluts if they sleep with them too early.

Maybe men just decide the woman isn't sound enough, it's not that she slept with them too early.

This is great as when I meet some-one I really like I want to sleep with them straight away, as I'm sure we all do, but I've always been a bit worried.

This has given me food for thought. So if a girl slept with you straight away, and you really liked her you would want to see her again...but if she just wrecked your head you wouldn't want to see her again...nothing to do with the sex...I feel liberated! F*ck society's stupid rules.

Reward · 11-01-2011 1:51am

midlandsmissus wrote: »

You know that's very interesting to read NM, thanks for that. Maybe women have it wrongly ingrained in them thinking men will think they are sluts if they sleep with them too early.

Maybe men just decide the woman isn't sound enough, it's not that she slept with them too early.

This is great as when I meet some-one I really like I want to sleep with them straight away, as I'm sure we all do, but I've always been a bit worried.

This has given me food for thought. So if a girl slept with you straight away, and you really liked her you would want to see her again...but if she just wrecked your head you wouldn't want to see her again...nothing to do with the sex...I feel liberated! F*ck society's stupid rules.

I don't see why you need a consensus in the first place, just go out and have sex the way you want to.

annapolska · 11-01-2011 2:15am

nm wrote: »

If I was only after one thing then I'd just meet her again and get that thing. Im not after anything in particular, my seeing her again or not seeing her again isnt based on that. At least not solely that, but whatever amount of normal factors (that now I suppose being one of them as she seems to consider sex some sort of reward she gives me).

Reward wrote: »

Sounds like she views sex as some form of leverage.

Maybe it's not about a reward or leverage, it could be that she's just trying to avoid being used. I'm not saying that you are a jerk or a user, just that often times when a girl has a "3 date rule", she's just trying to prevent being hurt.
It is used as a screening tactic, although it's hardly foolproof.

It could also be that she actually liked you, and feared that you might think poorly of her if she slept with you right away, or that she was just uncomfortable about it for any number of reasons.

I hate that the ideas of manipulation (leverage) and ego (reward) are the first assumptions as to why she decided against first-date sex! Maybe I'm being a bit idealist here, but I like to think that many girls' motives are far less malicious.

Very interesting points, though.

Reward · 11-01-2011 2:19am

annapolska wrote: »

Maybe it's not about a reward or leverage, it could be that she's just trying to avoid being used. I'm not saying that you are a jerk or a user, just that often times when a girl has a "3 date rule", she's just trying to prevent being hurt.
It is used as a screening tactic, although it's hardly foolproof.

It could also be that she actually liked you, and feared that you might think poorly of her if she slept with you right away, or that she was just uncomfortable about it for any number of reasons.

I hate that the ideas of manipulation (leverage) and ego (reward) are the first assumptions as to why she decided against first-date sex! Maybe I'm being a bit idealist here, but I like to think that many girls' motives are far less malicious.

Very interesting points, though.

"Trying to avoid being used" to me = setting a price for sex (commitment, dates or whatever) and making sure that price is paid/going to be paid before she has sex. "Used for sex" seems to be a direct reference to trading sex for something else.

annapolska · 11-01-2011 3:39am

Reward wrote: »

"Trying to avoid being used" to me = setting a price for sex (commitment, dates or whatever) and making sure that price is paid/going to be paid before she has sex. "Used for sex" seems to be a direct reference to trading sex for something else.

Hmmm... I guess I don't see it being so black-and-white, like a transaction or something.

I just mean that she probably didn't want to get sexually involved with someone she barely knows. She may have been uncomfortable, or concerned about the possible negative consequences of sleeping with a near stranger. I was thinking more along the lines of self-protection, not meant in a manipulative or game-playing kind of way.

I suppose we all have a "price" for sex (maybe "currency" is a better term?), if you want to say it that way. It comes in the form of expectations, desires, judgements, and all of the complex mating behaviours of the human race.

Darlughda · 11-01-2011 3:52am

OutlawPete wrote: »

Yes, hence the comment.

Most men that I have come across, do not think the way that is being presented in this thread. I NEVER hear women being called sluts and slappers and 'she is only good for one thing' etc etc. As I said before, I don't believe that there is a genuine double standard, just the perception of one. Any comments that I have heard from men with regards to women being apt for a ONS but not for a relationship are more than mirrored by the women I have heard conversing with regards to men.

I have lost count of how many times I have heard women talk about some men not being "marriage material" and how they broke up with a guy cause he was too clingy etc. When a mate of mine has a ONS, he doesn't talk about not seeing women again because they had amazing sex but they wish the women would have waited, I'm not sure where all this is coming from to be honest.

The main criteria that I have noticed over the years from guys on what tends to make them want to date a women or not is almost always how sound they where. Being a "bitch" or just coming across as "high maintenance" or the type that has a "check list" in their purse of what their man MUST have, are what makes a guy not call a woman after a ONS, in my experience at least.

It has little or nothing to do with the sex that happened..

You know what Pete, I reckon you keep good company and quality of mates that you would not be familar with the frequent labelling of women in silly derogarotary terms. However, by all accounts it does seem to happen. Maybe indeed, it utterly depends on the quality of company one keeps. To refer to a woman in such terms makes a derogratory statement amongst all present , does it not?

I think what is being confused here is not men choosing not to call a woman based on her sexual promiscuousness, but men not calling women because all they wanted from them was sex.

These are two different things entirely.[/QUOTE]

grungepants · 11-01-2011 4:11am

nm wrote: »

For what it's worth I was out on a "first date" last weekend, and at the end of it she came back to mine. I was expecting sex at this point to be honest, but she refused and slept fully clothed, quoting this sort of '3rd date' lark. Fair enough, it was a good night anyway.

Decided now I dont really want to see her again, and probably wont bother.

What will she think now, if we hadve had sex she wouldve probably thought like some of the posters here that was the reason I dont particularly want to see her again, when that has nothing to do with it.

Definitely if anything if we hadve had sex I would be more likely to want to see her again (not saying i definitely would but it would certainly help).

She has texted earlier today suggesting going out again, and im sure sex would be on the cards then or if not then absolutely the following time, but I dont want to bother now and shes made a big deal out of it. It wouldnt be worth it, if i shagged her after that long then id feel like i owe her something or something.. if you get me. And I couldnt blank her after 2 -3 dates and sex, and as a result now ive decided im not gonna see her at all.

If it hadve happened last weekend, who knows what it might have turned into.

purley out of curiousity... How did you get the date with this girl?

The First Date Shag Consequences..

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