UK's 'biggest stag' Exmoor Emperor shot dead

ssl

Some stag
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-11624253

poulo6.5

ssl wrote: »

Some stag
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-11624253

I was just about to start a tread about this
What do the other hunters here think about taking the very best stag in the country just as a trophy.
Don't get me wrong I would love to shoot a trophy stag at least once in my life but would it not be good practice to leave the best stags to produce good off spring.

Any thoughts.

super_furry

Certainly not going to do anything for the public perception of hunting.

bazza888

just to let you know the reporter has said on sky news that they believe he was shot by a trophy hunter as he hasnt been seen lately,she then went on to say they have no evidence he was actually shot,they have no carcass and it is just presumed a trophy hunter got him!!!

Birdnuts

poulo6.5 wrote: »

I was just about to start a tread about this
What do the other hunters here think about taking the very best stag in the country just as a trophy.
Don't get me wrong I would love to shoot a trophy stag at least once in my life but would it not be good practice to leave the best stags to produce good off spring.

Any thoughts.

I have similiar concerns about uncontrolled trophy hunting - experience around the world suggests it can seriously impoverish the quality of wild game species:(

Mountainy Jack

To be honest it's a poor article, how in the name of god do they know he was the finest stag in the UK? There are between two and two and a half thousand reds in Exmoor according to the article, I'm sure the remaining hinds will be covered and by fine animals too. I would be more concerned if it was a fine young stag that had not matured that had been shot.

Cass

Surely it was going to happen at some stage.

Would population control not also be about reducing the older stag population to allow the younger stags a chance hence widening the gene pool. If he was 10-12 years old as the article claims he has more than likely produced many offspring. Chances are you'll see or hear of some other fine animals down the years.

Just an opinion.

Tackleberrywho

It's a load of cobblers if you ask me.
That stag had mated with hundreds in his 10 or 12 years.

You would think that this was an issue??(UK debts etc)

The poxy Queen shoots Big stags every year and nobody blinks.

And where is the evidence that he was shot?
Could be dead in a ditch for all anyone knows.

And who weighed a wild stag to know he was 300lbs??

That sky news is a joke if you ask me.
A grain of truth and a load of creative writing

Birdnuts

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

That sky news is a joke if you ask me.

Thats true - its the equivalent of Fox news in America, no accident that both are owned by one Rupert Murdoch:rolleyes:

bazza888

its all hearsay at the moment,how long would a red stag usually live in the wild? this story has to much of the "a man heard 2 shots" a man recognized the deer but came back and it was gone ,it sounds like people guessing what happen!he could have been injured and died somewhere

BUACHAILL

at 10-12 years old his time was up if you ask me, the fact he had been left alone until then speaks volumes.

If you ask me also the stag in the video if him looks old and tired anyway. he is walking more rigidly and looks tired !

And after all that they have no evidence what a joke !
Another bull.sh.it article driven by the antis

Terrier

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/8088484/Who-killed-the-Emperor-Hunters-identity-remains-a-mystery.html

BUACHAILL

Terrier wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/8088484/Who-killed-the-Emperor-Hunters-identity-remains-a-mystery.html

So now the guy has spent 15 years tracking him ? Thought he was aged between 10-12 ?

What horse sh.ite

It wasn't me!

300 pounds? Not exactly a monster red stag in lowland circumstances. Big for a highland stag alright, but it would make him about twenty one and a half stone. You'd find plenty that weight and bigger in good locations. Also, at ten or twelve years, it's likely he was starting to go back and therefore was absolutely perfect circumstances for a trophy.

sikastag

135kg is not a massive body weight in fairness.

It wasn't me!

sikastag wrote: »

135kg is not a massive body weight in fairness.

I'd nearly think they meant 300 kg, which would be a monster alright.

Grizzly 45

Load of oul Bollix!!
Making a story about nothing much.A famous old stag is shot,big deal![Half the BBC film is of another stag as well].Fair dues to whoever shot him,as they will have paid a good bit of money for the head into the local ecnomy too.
Another reason not to have SKY TV in your house,half baked stories,lies and speculation..And they want your money for this kind odf sh&te that passes as "news"?:rolleyes:

Genghiz Cohen

I think it's a shame.
Awesome trophy, no doubt but so much better to see live.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

It wasn't me!

Scien wrote: »

I don't get the Trophy argument at all. Hey look, I outwitted this animal by killing it, with a gun. Wow, such skill, go you. :rolleyes:

It's a symbol of proper management. Big animals bearing solid genetic characteristics should be controlled and allowed to breed. To take the animal when it's passed its breeding age and started to recede is a sign that you've monitored, managed and controlled the deer with skill and understanding and made a difference to the quality of the animals and their future. It's something you can be proud of. Those who don't know that won't get it, but those involved don't need anyone else to understand them.

sikastag

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I'd nearly think they meant 300 kg, which would be a monster alright.

Its a possibilty alright. Christ, 300 kg, can you imagine?!?! Heaviest ive had the pleasure of seeing is 220kg dresssed carcass, heaviest ive shot is 150kg dressed carcass which was a big animal, 220kg lad was inconcievably large, his legs actually looked really short at a distance due to their thickness and size. Very big boned animal.

It wasn't me!

sikastag wrote: »

Its a possibilty alright. Christ, 300 kg, can you imagine?!?! Heaviest ive had the pleasure of seeing is 220kg dresssed carcass, heaviest ive shot is 150kg dressed carcass which was a big animal, 220kg lad was inconcievably large, his legs actually looked really short at a distance due to their thickness and size. Very big boned animal.

220kg dressed carcass (head off?) could come in north of 250kg or even better, so it'd definitely possible. Would love to do some red stalking and hybrids. Magnificent animals.

Tackleberrywho

Scien wrote: »

The Guardian reporting on it too.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/oct/25/exmoor-emperor-stag-shot-dead

I don't get the Trophy argument at all. Hey look, I outwitted this animal by killing it, with a gun. Wow, such skill, go you. :rolleyes:

Would it be better for the stag to be wounded in the rut, left to die of his wounds, and be eaten whilst still alive by foxes and Carrion?

Rowley Birkin QC

It wasn't me! wrote: »

It's a symbol of proper management. Big animals bearing solid genetic characteristics should be controlled and allowed to breed. To take the animal when it's passed its breeding age and started to recede is a sign that you've monitored, managed and controlled the deer with skill and understanding and made a difference to the quality of the animals and their future. It's something you can be proud of. Those who don't know that won't get it, but those involved don't need anyone else to understand them.

To those in the know perhaps, but to those outside the hunting fraternity Scien's argument stacks up; The animal was out grazing and a guy lying in the grass a distance away squeezed a trigger on a high powered rifle.

To the outside observer it's hardly man against beast on any kind of level ground as the word trophy would imply.

It wasn't me!

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

To those in the know perhaps, but to those outside the hunting fraternity Scien's argument stacks up; The animal was out grazing and a guy lying in the grass a distance away squeezed a trigger on a high powered rifle.

To the outside observer it's hardly man against beast on any kind of level ground as the word trophy would imply.

People who don't do it aren't going to be aware of how difficult it is to stalk up on big old animals. They didn't get big and old and father hundreds and hundreds of offspring by being stupid and easy to kill. Getting within five hundred yards of some animals is a serious challenge. Getting to where you can take a viable shot could take months of planning, observation, stalking, hundreds, maybe thousands of hours. To be honest, I've explained this stuff to so many people, so many times, but I wonder whether I'm wasting my breath. If they did it, they'd know, but if they never do, they'll probably never understand the words on more than an intellectual level, and won't be able to understand the drive and the involvement on a personal level. Trust me, winning these trophies is big, tough work and it's hard won. Even after the trigger is pulled, that guy has to drag out that stag, and since they tend not to be found beside the road, you could have several miles of very tough ground to drag out a massive beast. If you shot it in the morning it could well be dark by the time you got it to a vehicle. Make no mistake, there's nothing easy about deer-stalking.

sikastag

It wasn't me! wrote: »

220kg dressed carcass (head off?) could come in north of 250kg or even better, so it'd definitely possible. Would love to do some red stalking and hybrids. Magnificent animals.

Yes. head and legs off at joints, skin on. Big bodied animal.

Tackleberrywho

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

To those in the know perhaps, but to those outside the hunting fraternity Scien's argument stacks up; The animal was out grazing and a guy lying in the grass a distance away squeezed a trigger on a high powered rifle.

To the outside observer it's hardly man against beast on any kind of level ground as the word trophy would imply.

Since Man killed all the wolves in the wild in the UK, the Beast has no natural enemies.

There was a reason he was not shot before this, life expectancy is not much more than 12 years unless in captivity.

Stags by their nature fight for the right to mate with the entire herd, invariable the biggest stag eventually gets beaten and dies.

Nature is crueler than any shooter could ever be.......

It wasn't me!

sikastag wrote: »

Yes. head and legs off at joints, skin on. Big bodied animal.

That's huge. Wouldn't be surprised if he came in over 270kg live weight. Must have been properly massive. Out of curiosity, where was he taken?

Tackleberrywho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPeDsOIhVik

Rowley Birkin QC

It wasn't me! wrote: »

People who don't do it aren't going to be aware of how difficult it is to stalk up on big old animals. They didn't get big and old and father hundreds and hundreds of offspring by being stupid and easy to kill. Getting within five hundred yards of some animals is a serious challenge. Getting to where you can take a viable shot could take months of planning, observation, stalking, hundreds, maybe thousands of hours. To be honest, I've explained this stuff to so many people, so many times, but I wonder whether I'm wasting my breath. If they did it, they'd know, but if they never do, they'll probably never understand the words on more than an intellectual level, and won't be able to understand the drive and the involvement on a personal level. Trust me, winning these trophies is big, tough work and it's hard won. Even after the trigger is pulled, that guy has to drag out that stag, and since they tend not to be found beside the road, you could have several miles of very tough ground to drag out a massive beast. If you shot it in the morning it could well be dark by the time you got it to a vehicle. Make no mistake, there's nothing easy about deer-stalking.

Read my post again.

Those in the know are aware of all this. The majority of people are not. I'm not disputing that it's a difficult game just pointing out that not everyone is aware of it.

sikastag

It wasn't me! wrote: »

That's huge. Wouldn't be surprised if he came in over 270kg live weight. Must have been properly massive. Out of curiosity, where was he taken?

Would prefer not to say if thats allright. Id figure 250kg would be closer to live weight. Fine big animal. Old though. Head not great by any means. in earlier post you mentioned about putting in hours. Certainly true, hours spent getting accquainted with these fellas coupled up with hours spent watchin them walk away at just the right time and hours spent getting animal out of location. It nearly becomes personal.

It wasn't me!

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Read my post again.

Those in the know are aware of all this. The majority of people are not. I'm not disputing that it's a difficult game just pointing out that not everyone is aware of it.

The problem is that when you explain it, words like "drag", "management", "long-term benefit" and such just get ignored and they stick with their image of someone who doesn't work for it and they think that it's easy. Rather difficult to try and adequately represent the sport to these people.

It wasn't me!

sikastag wrote: »

Would prefer not to say if thats allright. Id figure 250kg would be closer to live weight. Fine big animal. Old though. Head not great by any means. in earlier post you mentioned about putting in hours. Certainly true, hours spent getting accquainted with these fellas coupled up with hours spent watchin them walk away at just the right time and hours spent getting animal out of location. It nearly becomes personal.

No worries, just curious about the environment, whether it was lowland or hills and such. It can become personal alright. If you read Hemmingway's "The Old Man and the Sea" it's a great short story which tells you all about it.

CJhaughey

The Guardian also ran this factually based piece which I suspect the vast majority didn't read.
The author makes good points about the disneyfication of animals by giving them names
At the end of the day the stag should have passed his genes on by now and if he hadn't then thats natures way of saying you had your chance.....

sikastag

It wasn't me! wrote: »

No worries, just curious about the environment, whether it was lowland or hills and such. It can become personal alright. If you read Hemmingway's "The Old Man and the Sea" it's a great short story which tells you all about it.

Sorry, lowland as far as I know. As I said, just had the pleasure of actually seeing him. Haven’t even a photo! Cheers for that, housebound with flu at the moment so a good read would be a grand accompaniment to a hot one!

It wasn't me!

sikastag wrote: »

Sorry, lowland as far as I know. As I said, just had the pleasure of actually seeing him. Haven’t even a photo! Cheers for that, housebound with flu at the moment so a good read would be a grand accompaniment to a hot one!

No bother. For some reason I seem to remember you're not far from me (west Wicklow) so I can send a copy over if you want to PM me.

Tackleberrywho

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Read my post again.

Those in the know are aware of all this. The majority of people are not. I'm not disputing that it's a difficult game just pointing out that not everyone is aware of it.

The Queen herself and her Husband kill hundreds of prime stags every year, nobody dare tell her off.........

Its a bit rich Sky News making much ado about nothing.........

It wasn't me!

I know Charles stalks but I don't see the queen or Philip climbing too many mountains around Balmoral these days. Any evidence to support that assertion? Balmoral is a well-managed estate, kept in proper order, so animals are killed when it's appropriate.

Rowley Birkin QC

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

The Queen herself and her Husband kill hundreds of prime stags every year, nobody dare tell her off.........

Its a bit rich Sky News making much ado about nothing.........

I have no idea what relation that bears to my post.

sikastag

It wasn't me! wrote: »

No bother. For some reason I seem to remember you're not far from me (west Wicklow) so I can send a copy over if you want to PM me.

Cheers, appreciate that, Just got it in ebook format actually so it'll save you any hassle. Looking forward to reading it now.

It wasn't me!

sikastag wrote: »

Cheers, appreciate that, Just got it in ebook format actually so it'll save you any hassle. Looking forward to reading it now.

No bother. Enjoy. Really does encapsulate the mindset of the hunt and the emotional investment.

Tackleberrywho

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

I have no idea what relation that bears to my post.

The Queen ONLY shoots Trophy Stags....it's very relevant, have a look around any of her stately homes.

The Stag was at his peak, shot as his peak, and died at his peak.

Had he not been shot "if he was shot", he would have been killed por injured by another stag eventually; banished from the herd and died of starvation when his teeth rot, or if to injured to feed.

landkeeper

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

It's a load of cobblers if you ask me.
That stag had mated with hundreds in his 10 or 12 years.

You would think that this was an issue??(UK debts etc)

The poxy Queen shoots Big stags every year and nobody blinks.

And where is the evidence that he was shot?
Could be dead in a ditch for all anyone knows.

And who weighed a wild stag to know he was 300lbs??

That sky news is a joke if you ask me.
A grain of truth and a load of creative writing

tack you want to learn a bit of respect for someone who probably has done as much for fieldsports and conservation as anyone in the british isles i'd imagine there are as many if not more bad heads and hummels switches and stags going back shot as there are good ones , balmoral is a properly managed deer forest where they will monitor stags year after year and take out those going back as well as i'll injured and bad examples

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I know Charles stalks but I don't see the queen or Philip climbing too many mountains around Balmoral these days. Any evidence to support that assertion? Balmoral is a well-managed estate, kept in proper order, so animals are killed when it's appropriate.

IWM, maybe not now, as she is old and decrepid, but in her younger days, yes she did.
All the Royals did, after all "It was one of the Kins Deer":rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

IWM, maybe not now, as she is old and decrepid, but in her younger days, yes she did.
All the Royals did, after all "It was one of the Kins Deer":rolleyes:

And? The Royal estates are magnificently managed, with strong populations of very high quality deer. In addition, the whole family are staunch fieldsports supporters and enthusiasts. We could really use some strong public representation here like they provide in the UK. I reckon you've got a rather detestable chip on your shoulder there. Landkeeper has it spot on. I wish I could be responsible for management half as efficient as is in evidence on the royal estates.

Rowley Birkin QC

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

The Queen ONLY shoots Trophy Stags....it's very relevant, have a look around any of her stately homes.

The Stag was at his peak, shot as his peak, and died at his peak.

Had he not been shot "if he was shot", he would have been killed por injured by another stag eventually; banished from the herd and died of starvation when his teeth rot, or if to injured to feed.

And again.

I wasn't disputing the legality and skill of the stalker, just pointing out how the majority of the public perceive the kill. I have no issue with the stag being shot.

I'll leave you to your fixation on the Queen.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

And? The Royal estates are magnificently managed, with strong populations of very high quality deer. In addition, the whole family are staunch fieldsports supporters and enthusiasts. We could really use some strong public representation here like they provide in the UK. I reckon you've got a rather detestable chip on your shoulder there. Landkeeper has it spot on. I wish I could be responsible for management half as efficient as is in evidence on the royal estates.

I make no bones about not being a fan of the Royals. Many an Irish man was killed for Hunting "the kings deer" for food.
my point is Sky making a big deal over what their Glorious leader sees as a birthright for her children!

If a Lord had shot the deer it would maybe have made a shooting mag, end of......
It must have been a slow news week.....
Bring back the chilean miners!
Or that auld wan who threw a cat in a bin:rolleyes:

A Stag that "may" have been shot, and it being front page news.......

Tackleberrywho

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

And again.

I wasn't disputing the legality and skill of the stalker, just pointing out how the majority of the public perceive the kill. I have no issue with the stag being shot.

I'll leave you to your fixation on the Queen.

No fixation with the queen,
The Public perceive the kill the way Sky news want them to perceive it!

Talk about republic of Telly......
A big old stag, you would swear he had never mated and passed on his jeans.
He had more Nookie than dirk Digler
It's all about perception and what sells news papers, never let the truth get in the way of a good story..

landkeeper

and many an englishman was hanged too ffs get that chip off your shoulder and grow up this is 2010 not 1847
the only person who has made any reference to what the queen does or does not do is you

Tackleberrywho

landkeeper wrote: »

and many an englishman was hanged too ffs get that chip off your shoulder and grow up this is 2010 not 1847
the only person who has made any reference to what the queen does or does not do is you

A big deer was shot, in season, with permission.
End of story................

In latest news
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-11626281

What's next......

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.