Selling poppies

sitstill

My mate is Irish and Catholic. His father used to be in the British Army as did his Great-Grand Father, who died in Flanders in WWI.

My friend has now volunteered to sell poppies next month for the Royal British Legion because he thinks they support veterans (including Irish ones well).

I think its kinda disgusting though. What do people think?

ballsymchugh

look up last years thread. each to their own.

deise go deo

What is disgusting?

They are a symbol of remembrance for people who died in a great human tragedy, Many Irish people lost their lives in WWI, While I see no need for Irish politicians etc to have anything to do with wearing poppies as our state was not involved, many families here lost people in WWI, There is nothing wrong with them remembering their fallen.

Zambia

In all, about 210,000 Irishmen served in the British forces during World War One. Since there was no conscription, about 140,000 of these joined during the war as volunteers. Some 35,000 Irish died.

Respect your mates beliefs

jackbenimble

sitstill wrote: »

My mate is Irish and Catholic. His father used to be in the British Army as did his Great-Grand Father, who died in Flanders in WWI.

My friend has now volunteered to sell poppies next month for the Royal British Legion because he thinks they support veterans (including Irish ones well).

I think its kinda disgusting though. What do people think?

Why do you think it's disgusting?

gurramok

deise go deo wrote: »

What is disgusting?

They are a symbol of remembrance for people who died in a great human tragedy, Many Irish people lost their lives in WWI, While I see no need for Irish politicians etc to have anything to do with wearing poppies as our state was not involved, many families here lost people in WWI, There is nothing wrong with them remembering their fallen.

They contribute to the welfare of modern British serving forces, thats whats the problem is.

And yeh, why is it that this year we have 2 threads about the topic rather than the annual thread?

super_furry

sitstill wrote: »

I think its kinda disgusting though. What do people think?

I think it's fine.

fat__tony

sitstill wrote: »

My mate is Irish and Catholic. His father used to be in the British Army as did his Great-Grand Father, who died in Flanders in WWI.

My friend has now volunteered to sell poppies next month for the Royal British Legion because he thinks they support veterans (including Irish ones well).

I think its kinda disgusting though. What do people think?

Disgusting? How in Gods name is it disgusting??

A bit of a hasty response perhaps

deise go deo

gurramok wrote: »

They contribute to the welfare of modern British serving forces, thats whats the problem is.

What do they contribute to the BA?

Still Its not the poppies that is the problem its what is done with the money collected.

And yeh, why is it that this year we have 2 threads about the topic rather than the annual thread?

Dident see the other thread.

sitstill

Can someone link to the other thread because I can't see it.

My problem with the poppies is that some of the money goes to "veterans" of the current illegal wars as well as WWI and WWII.

deise go deo

sitstill wrote: »

Can someone link to the other thread because I can't see it.

My problem with the poppies is that some of the money goes to "veterans" of the current illegal wars as well as WWI and WWII.

Surely as long as the people buying them know then its their choice?

Zambia

gurramok wrote: »

They contribute to the welfare of modern British serving forces, thats whats the problem is.

How so ?

fontanalis

A bit off topic. How did the song The Green Fields of France turn into a republican/drunk moron song. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Green_Fields_of_France

Bottle_of_Smoke

A reason a lot of people don't like them is many people in the north wear them in memory of loyalist paramilitaries.

I know a nationalist from Derry, Scottish dad and Irish mum, has spent about half his life in each country. He'll wear the poppy anywhere in the world other than the north.

gurramok

deise go deo wrote: »

What do they contribute to the BA?

Still Its not the poppies that is the problem its what is done with the money collected.

Zambia232 wrote: »

How so ?

Jayzus lads, this topic has been debated to death before. Funds raised from the sale of poppies go to the welfare of living soldiers post WW1 in all wars.

Also, why don't ye use white poppies to symbolise peace instead?

Fratton Fred

sitstill wrote: »

Can someone link to the other thread because I can't see it.

My problem with the poppies is that some of the money goes to "veterans" of the current illegal wars as well as WWI and WWII.

The UK is only involved in one war at the moment, the same one that the Irish military are also involved with.

from what i understand, any money collected in Ireland stays in Ireland though.

I can understand Irish people not wanting to wear a poppy, but i believe they should respect the wishes of those who wish to.

CoalBucket

I love poppies, especially with a bit of gravy, um yummm

Zambia

Yes but it not like the funds are used to buy Armoured cars and tanks and guns or to take away our sons like ?

The funds are used for the familys of slain soldiers , injured ex-servicemen etc.

jackbenimble

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

A reason a lot of people don't like them is many people in the north wear them in memory of loyalist paramilitaries.

I know a nationalist from Derry, Scottish dad and Irish mum, has spent about half his life in each country. He'll wear the poppy anywhere in the world other than the north.

I'm not sure that bought poppies are worn in memory of fallen Loyalist volunteers. Obviously some of those who supported Loyalist paramilitaries will buy and wear poppies, but for the usual reasons.

The poppies above form a wreath and would be a reference to The UVF fallen in WWI as well as The UVF who fought and died during the recently passed conflict in NI. They shouldn't be confused with those sold in favour of The British Legion.

deman

Disgusting yes. I think the Irish government and the lawmakers that control our country should make selling poppies illegal and stop these people from forcing people to buy these symbols of a foreign dictatorial oppressive force.

STOP THESE PEOPLE FROM SELLING POPPIES AND EXPRESSING THEIR FREEDOM. CLAMP DOWN ON FREEDOM NOW BEFORE IT TAKES CONTROL. LET'S JUST LOCK PEOPLE UP FOR DOING WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT!!

***BTW, I'm being sarcastic and I think I should point this out because the message is aimed at those with a limited understanding of life.***

:rolleyes:

Bottle_of_Smoke

jackbenimble wrote: »

I'm not sure that bought poppies are worn in memory of fallen Loyalist volunteers. Obviously some of those who supported Loyalist paramilitaries will buy and wear poppies, but for the usual reasons.

The poppies above form a wreath and would be a reference to The UVF fallen in WWI as well as The UVF who fought and died during the recently passed conflict in NI. They shouldn't be confused with those sold in favour of The British Legion.

That ones in a mural in memory of Brian Robinson of the modern UVF

gurramok

Zambia232 wrote: »

Yes but it not like the funds are used to buy Armoured cars and tanks and guns or to take away our sons like ?

The funds are used for the familys of slain soldiers , injured ex-servicemen etc.

Like those on Bloody Sunday and those that shot hundreds of unarmed civilians dead during the Troubles. Hope you see where the problem with poppy funding is now.

phasers

Don't they have white poppies for people who don't want to support British soldiers?


IIRC there's purple ones to comemmorate the animals who die in wars too.

Shea O'Meara

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

A reason a lot of people don't like them is many people in the north wear them in memory of loyalist paramilitaries.

I know a nationalist from Derry, Scottish dad and Irish mum, has spent about half his life in each country. He'll wear the poppy anywhere in the world other than the north.

Those poor confused folk think they represent the red hand of Ulster for jebus sake. Ulster was there long before them and will be long after. It's pathetic when people take ownership of such things for a skewed racist cause.

I've a lot of time for fallen and injured soldiers and feel it's important to make the distinction between soldiers and governments. Granted it's not black and white but I can't help but feel for any fallen soldier from any country brought into a fight, signing up due to poverty or circumstance to be used as pawns in a battle they often have no full knowledge of or reason why and are given bull**** patriotism lines from scumbag self serving royalty and/or politicians. The way I see it, there are people like you and I in every country/army.

Zambia

gurramok wrote: »

Like those on Bloody Sunday and those that shot hundreds of unarmed civilians dead during the Troubles. Hope you see where the problem with poppy funding is now.

Ok I see where you are coming from and I respect your beliefs on it, all I am asking is you respect the beliefs of others.

KeithAFC

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

A reason a lot of people don't like them is many people in the north wear them in memory of loyalist paramilitaries.

I know a nationalist from Derry, Scottish dad and Irish mum, has spent about half his life in each country. He'll wear the poppy anywhere in the world other than the north.

I wear one to pay my respects to the heroes of the 36th Ulster division.

KeithAFC

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Those poor confused folk think they represent the red hand of Ulster for jebus sake. Ulster was there long before them and will be long after. It's pathetic when people take ownership of such things for a skewed racist cause.

I've a lot of time for fallen and injured soldiers and feel it's important to make the distinction between soldiers and governments. Granted it's not black and white but I can't help but feel for any fallen soldier from any country brought into a fight, signing up due to poverty or circumstance to be used as pawns in a battle they often have no full knowledge of or reason why and are given bull**** patriotism lines from scumbag self serving royalty and/or politicians. The way I see it, there are people like you and I in every country/army.

Ulster is their home.

They aren't going anywhere..

gurramok

Zambia232 wrote: »

Ok I see where you are coming from and I respect your beliefs on it, all I am asking is you respect the beliefs of others.

Its hard considering what they did to Irish people.

Rebelheart

deise go deo wrote: »

What is disgusting?

They are a symbol of remembrance for people who died in a great human tragedy, Many Irish people lost their lives in WWI, While I see no need for Irish politicians etc to have anything to do with wearing poppies as our state was not involved, many families here lost people in WWI, There is nothing wrong with them remembering their fallen.

Horseshíte, Déise. The British poppy is used solely to honour those who fought on the British imperialist side. Why do people keep repeating the myth that the British poppy is a common symbol of commemorations across Europe, or even in the US? Why are their heads still in the sand?

It is not used by France, Germany, Russia, Spain, Italy - in fact no European country uses it - and it's not even used by the United States. The only "countries" which use it are part of the British Commonwealth.

And, once again, the Royal British Legion organises the British poppy day commemorations and they make it very, very clear that that poppy is designed to commemorate all those people who fought for the British side. That includes the Black and Tans, the Parachute Regiment and those people who interned 1,000,000 Kenyans in Enclosed Villages in the 1950s (when they weren't hanging them) - not to mention those British military personnel who presided over the murder ('death' as British nationalists would try and sell it) of tens of thousands of women and children in the British-run concentration camps during the Second Boer War at the start of the 20th century.

Wear a British poppy and you make your politics, and morality, very clear to the rest of us.

KeithAFC

Wearing the poppy means what it does to the person who buys it. Doesn't have to be a political symbol.

Rebelheart

KeithAFC wrote: »

I wear one to pay my respects to the heroes of the 36th Ulster division.

They weren't "heroes"; they were, very clearly, misguided idiots. Sorry if the truth hurts but hopefully you'll see the light yet.

KeithAFC

Rebelheart wrote: »

They weren't "heroes"; they were, very clearly, misguided idiots. Sorry if the truth hurts but hopefully you'll see the light yet.

:rolleyes: They are to me. We will never forget them.

Rebelheart

Zambia232 wrote: »

In all, about 210,000 Irishmen served in the British forces during World War One. Since there was no conscription, about 140,000 of these joined during the war as volunteers. Some 35,000 Irish died.

Respect your mates beliefs

Yeah, I suppose because they were Irish murderers they deserve to be respected. Jesus - what parochial, tribal shíte, up there with the British tabloids anyday.

At this rate we might as well honour every rapist, murderer and scumbag in Irish history simply because they were born in Ireland. The moral inconsistency and tribalism of this view beats the band. Jesus wept.

Rebelheart

KeithAFC wrote: »

:rolleyes: They are to me. We will never forget them.

Fair enough if you have to romanticise the past to give comfort to your present. It's an understandable need, but not worthy of respect.

Zambia

gurramok wrote: »

Its hard considering what they did to Irish people.

True but at some piont we really all have to forgive each other for the sins of each others countrymen's past actions.

gurramok

Zambia232 wrote: »

True but at some piont we really all have to forgive each other for the sins of each others countrymen's past actions.

Do people forgive the IRA actions? I sincerely doubt it.

Equally why should people forgive soldiers for shooting dead unarmed civilians where they got no justice nor acknowledgment of their innocence?

And where those soldiers are now in their 60's getting some funds from the poppys.

johnnyskeleton

I don't wear a poppy, but I like to take a minute's silence on 11/11 at 11am. Figure that one out.

Rebelheart wrote: »

Horseshíte, Déise. The British poppy is used solely to honour those who fought on the British imperialist side.

So...you would have been on the Kaiser's side?

KeithAFC

Rebelheart wrote: »

Fair enough if you have to romanticise the past to give comfort to your present. It's an understandable need, but not worthy of respect.

Much more worthy than your rebels anyway.

johnnyskeleton

Rebelheart wrote: »

They weren't "heroes"; they were, very clearly, misguided idiots. Sorry if the truth hurts but hopefully you'll see the light yet.

I wish I had a monopoly on the truth. Then god would (finally) be on MY side.

Rebelheart

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I can understand Irish people not wanting to wear a poppy, but i believe they should respect the wishes of those who wish to.

Why? Because they should honour the scum who suppressed Irish freedom for centuries? Or were responsible for murdering tens of thousands of children and women in Concentration Camps? ....

Fratton Fred

Rebelheart wrote: »

Why? Because they should honour the scum who suppressed Irish freedom for centuries? Or were responsible for murdering tens of thousands of children and women in Concentration Camps? ....

And people wonder why republicanism has such a bad name.:rolleyes:

Rebelheart

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I don't wear a poppy, but I like to take a minute's silence on 11/11 at 11am. Figure that one out.



So...you would have been on the Kaiser's side?

In 1914-18 - hell yeah! What did the Germans ever do to the Irish? Although, I would prefer to step outside your dichotomy and agree with 'We serve neither king nor kaiser but Ireland' - but let's not confuse the apologists for British imperialism on this thread.

That you think your crowd were fighting for the "freedom of small nations" when your cohorts fought for the British Empire at the same period, while Ireland remained under British colonial occupation, reflects poorly on the intelligence of anybody proffering that line of defence.

Rebelheart

Fratton Fred wrote: »

And people wonder why republicanism has such a bad name.:rolleyes:

Clearly among people in your ethno-socio-economic status, yes. Congratulations. Your posts continue to demonstrate that it's still the British lower classes, and their tabloid nationalism, who have been reduced to moving to Ireland. You poor creatúr.

A Dub in Glasgo

Heres the 2006 thread

Heres the 2008 thread

After Hours has had some belters as well

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=15095902#

johnnyskeleton

Rebelheart wrote: »

Why? Because they should honour the scum who suppressed Irish freedom for centuries? Or were responsible for murdering tens of thousands of children and women in Concentration Camps? ....

Rebelheart wrote: »

In 1914-18 - hell yeah! What did the Germans ever do to the Irish? Although, I would prefer to step outside your dichotomy and agree with 'We serve neither king nor kaiser but Ireland' - but let's not confuse the apologists for British imperialism on this thread.

Ah, so it's ok when the Germans kill people/put them in concentration camps, but when the British do it it's a big no no?

Rebelheart wrote: »

That you think your crowd were fighting for the "freedom of small nations" when your cohorts fought for the British Empire at the same period, while Ireland remained under British colonial occupation, reflects poorly on the intelligence of anybody proffering that line of defence.

First of all, if you think I'm a cohort of the WWI Irish battalions, then you must think I'm a seriously old geezer.

Second, I never said anything about "freedom of small nations".

Third, what exactly am I defending?

Finally, saying that something refects poorly on my intelligence does not make it so. You have to show some error of logic if you wish to sustain that argument.

Bottle_of_Smoke

KeithAFC wrote: »

I wear one to pay my respects to the heroes of the 36th Ulster division.

That's absolutely fine mate though I'm sure you understand people specifically wearing them in memory of paramilitaries puts others off.

There's parallels to it amongst nationalists many people don't wear easter lillies because of the PIRA

Rebelheart

KeithAFC wrote: »

Much more worthy than your rebels anyway.

How revealing. The British colonial forces who occupy Ireland are "more worthy" than the native Irish forces who resist them. Well done, KeithAFC. You are living proof of everything that is wrong and sickeningly nationalistic about those who wear the British poppy.

Fratton Fred

Rebelheart wrote: »

Clearly among people in your ethno-socio-economic status, yes. Congratulations. Your posts continue to demonstrate that it's still the British lower classes, and their tabloid nationalism, who have been reduced to moving to Ireland. You poor creatúr.

i was merely pointing out that people should respect the beliefs of others. you seem incapable of doing that because you are only capable of seeing your side of things. That is what gives republicans a bad name. Fortunately many have a much more even handed view of the world.

Rebelheart

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

That's absolutely fine mate though I'm sure you understand people specifically wearing them in memory of paramilitaries puts others off.

There's parallels to it amongst nationalists many people don't wear easter lillies because of the PIRA

It's actually not: the 36th Ulster Division was nothing but a glorified paramilitary unit, just as the UVF from which it came was: they were established to oppose the democratic wishes of the British parliament and monarch to which they supposedly gave loyalty. This anti-democratic raison d'être of the Ulster Volunteers is not disputed by any historian.

Zambia

gurramok wrote: »

Do people forgive the IRA actions? I sincerely doubt it.

Equally why should people forgive soldiers for shooting dead unarmed civilians where they got no justice nor acknowledgment of their innocence?

And where those soldiers are now in their 60's getting some funds from the poppys.

One day mate I will die and my hate and anger at those events will die with me.

I just choose to let the latter go earlier I can do without them.

KeithAFC

Rebelheart wrote: »

How revealing. The British colonial forces who occupy Ireland are "more worthy" than the native Irish forces who resist them. Well done, KeithAFC. You are living proof of everything that is wrong and sickeningly nationalistic about those who wear the British poppy.

They went to war, many people didn't have a clue about war and they fought with dignity and died in horrfic ways but they did it all with dignity and i respect that.

My view on my heroes compared to yours is obviously biased but its just my view.