The poppy

Dub13 · 10-11-2006 8:29pm #1

I would,I just want to see what the general opinion on this board is.

A Dub in Glasgo · 10-11-2006 8:38pm

White Poppy - Yes

Red Poppy - No

Steyr · 10-11-2006 8:39pm

Yes.

Just My View · 10-11-2006 8:50pm

No.

triskell · 10-11-2006 9:09pm

Red poppy in rememberence of those who fell.

Huggles · 10-11-2006 9:16pm

Yes I would. My great grandfather died on the first day of the Somme.

Dub13 · 10-11-2006 9:19pm

I believe there is a bit of controversy over in the UK about the white poppy.IMO a poppy is red.It's red to remember the blood loss. It's called Remembrance Day after all.

Huggles · 10-11-2006 9:21pm

Isnt it to do with the amount of poppies that blossom on the battle fields every year too?

A Dub in Glasgo · 10-11-2006 9:36pm

Dub13 wrote:

I believe there is a bit of controversy over in the UK about the white poppy.IMO a poppy is red.It's red to remember the blood loss. It's called Remembrance Day after all.

Why should there be controversy over remembering fallen soldiers but wanting peace not war? The red poppy sold by the BL goes towards remembering & supporting all soldiers in all conflicts from the British forces. Why should people support that?

Do you agree with the idea of 'blood sacrifice'?

Dub13 · 10-11-2006 11:14pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Why should there be controversy over remembering fallen soldiers but wanting peace not war?

The controversy is over a number of things IIRC,it has nothing to do with people wanting peace and not war.The question appears to be the funds raised from selling white poppies, and the use of the RBL's de facto trade mark, which may harm RBL's fund raising efforts.I am not to sure of of the facts but there are some concerns about were the money goes.I would not like to say what I have heard as its not fact and just hear say.

Just to add,I myself have no objection to pacificists, peace campaigners, anti-war brigade in the slightest as their voice is valid and necessary in an effective democracy.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The red poppy sold by the BL goes towards remembering & supporting all soldiers in all conflicts from the British forces. Why should people support that?

I never said you should,thats a personal choice.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Do you agree with the idea of 'blood sacrifice'?

The red poppy worn at this time of year does not glorify war. In fact it does the exact opposite and acts as a reminder of the horrors that we and our forebears have seen or been involved in.Everyone understands the meaning of the red poppy, and they understand the impotence of wearing the red poppy. Any other colour would take away the meaning of the red poppy almost like the colour wrist bands we had last year, they all lost their meaning because there was to many of them to have a meaning.

A Dub in Glasgo · 10-11-2006 11:42pm

Dub13 wrote:

The controversy is over a number of things IIRC,it has nothing to do with people wanting peace and not war.The question appears to be the funds raised from selling white poppies, and the use of the RBL's de facto trade mark, which may harm RBL's fund raising efforts.I am not to sure of of the facts but there are some concerns about were the money goes.I would not like to say what I have heard as its not fact and just hear say.

1st I am hearing of this, got any more info.

I wear a white poppy, every comment I get is from people who state I should support 'the troops' by wearing a red one. Not one person has stated what you say.

I never said you should,thats a personal choice.

Why do you support the British Legion poppy?

The red poppy worn at this time of year does not glorify war.

It qlorifies the sacrifices in war... from one side.

In fact it does the exact opposite and acts as a reminder of the horrors that we and our forebears have seen or been involved in.

It includes every conflict the British have been involved in including NI & Iraq.

Everyone understands the meaning of the red poppy, and they understand the impotence of wearing the red poppy.

I don't think severyone understands the British Legion red poppy. Your thread title is referring to red poppy rather than just poppy?

Any other colour would take away the meaning of the red poppy almost like the colour wrist bands we had last year, they all lost their meaning because there was to many of them to have a meaning.

Why? blood sacrifice again?

The thing · 10-11-2006 11:45pm

The Red Poppy sold by the Royal British Legion goes into maintaining war graves of fallen soldiers, including the 30,000 Irish men who died in the first world war the 5,000 who died in the second and countless others in other wars and conflicts with the British Army.
The only reason that the poppy has benn held with ill regard in this country is the fact that unionists have hijacked the symbol for their own political purposes. Personally I think we should remember the fallen of this country, after all over 250,000 Irishmen fought in the first world war and over 100,000 in the second. It is part of our history, as much as Nationalism. We cannot rewrite our history.

I would wear a Poppy under my coat as it wouldn't go down too well in the area I live.

Huggles · 10-11-2006 11:47pm

The thing wrote:

The Red Poppy sold by the Royal British Legion goes into maintaining war graves of fallen soldiers, including the 30,000 Irish men who died in the first world war the 5,000 who died in the second and countless others in other wars and conflicts with the British Army.
The only reason that the poppy has benn held with ill regard in this country is the fact that unionists have hijacked the symbol for their own political purposes. Personally I think we should remember the fallen of this country, after all over 250,000 Irishmen fought in the first world war and over 100,000 in the second. It is part of our history, as much as Nationalism. We cannot rewrite our history.

I would wear a Poppy under my coat as it wouldn't go down too well in the area I live.

Very well said Thing.

A Dub in Glasgo · 10-11-2006 11:51pm

The thing wrote:

The Red Poppy sold by the Royal British Legion goes into maintaining war graves of fallen soldiers, including the 30,000 Irish men who died in the first world war the 5,000 who died in the second and countless others in other wars and conflicts with the British Army.

Including those British soldiers who died and were injured in Ireland, Iraq and other independence conflicts. Contribute to that? No thanks.

Huggles · 10-11-2006 11:53pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Including those British soldiers who died and were injured in Ireland, Iraq and other independence conflicts. Contribute to that? No thanks.

Nationalism at its most irrational....

Just My View · 10-11-2006 11:54pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Including those British soldiers who died and were injured in Ireland, Iraq and other independence conflicts. Contribute to that? No thanks.

Amen.

A Dub in Glasgo · 11-11-2006 12:01am

TheGooner wrote:

Nationalism at its most irrational....

Why? Surely that is what you are contributing to?

The thing · 11-11-2006 12:01am

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Including those British soldiers who died and were injured in Ireland, Iraq and other independence conflicts. Contribute to that? No thanks.

And what about the soldiers who went to fight the Nazi slaughter machine in Europe and never came home, who went to secure peace for the rest of the free world and guarentee the freedom of this country by defeating a greater foe than Britain.

As I said Unionism has highjacked the symbol and made it into what it represents in this country today. The same thing has happened to the Irish harp in Ulster, the Red hand of O'Neill (the Crest and symbol of O' Neill, who fought the British when the rest of Ireland had sided with the English Armies) The O'Neill flag, which is now the Northern Ireland flag.

A Dub in Glasgo · 11-11-2006 12:06am

The thing wrote:

And what about the soldiers who went to fight the Nazi slaughter machine in Europe and never came home, who went to secure peace for the rest of the free world and guarentee the freedom of this country by defeating a greater foe than Britain.

Yeah, you are not remembering the majority of soldiers who fought against the Nazis, you are only remembering the British soldiers. With the white poppy, you remember all, not selective like the red. With the red, you are not only remembering the British soldiers of WWI & II but also the British soldiers in Ireland, Iraq and other independence conflicts.

The thing · 11-11-2006 12:16am

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Yeah, you are not remembering the majority of soldiers who fought against the Nazis, you are only remembering the British soldiers. With the white poppy, you remember all, not selective like the red. With the red, you are not only remembering the British soldiers of WWI & II but also the British soldiers in Ireland, Iraq and other independence conflicts.

And what does the money provide or serve with the white poppy? Does it maintain the wargraves of Irish soldiers like the Red poppy?
Answer NO.
A fallen son of Ireland should be able to rest in a marked grave no matter where he fell. The money goes into maintaining graves.
If a white poppy done that I would support and buy one, but it doesn't, you might as well buy a white dove as it serves the same purpose as a white poppy.

A Dub in Glasgo · 11-11-2006 12:24am

The thing wrote:

And what does the money provide or serve with the white poppy? Does it maintain the wargraves of Irish soldiers like the Red poppy?

How much of the red poppy in Ireland goes to that?

A fallen son of Ireland should be able to rest in a marked grave no matter where he fell. The money goes into maintaining graves.

Surely you mean 'A fallen Irish son of the UK should be able to rest in a marked grave no matter where he fell.'

Do you give money to the NGA?

If a white poppy done that I would support and buy one, but it doesn't, you might as well buy a white dove as it serves the same purpose as a white poppy.

You are only interest in the sybolism of some figures maintaining the graves of Irish people who fought for Britain? How much does the red poppy do that?

How much of your money goes to what you say you support?

The thing · 11-11-2006 12:54am

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

How much of the red poppy in Ireland goes to that?

Surely you mean 'A fallen Irish son of the UK should be able to rest in a marked grave no matter where he fell.'

Do you give money to the NGA?

No but I buy a poppy to remember Ireland's war dead, who died fighting with the British Army, who Ireland as a member of the Union was in until independence in 1922.

You are only interest in the sybolism of some figures maintaining the graves of Irish people who fought for Britain? How much does the red poppy do that?

At current it maintains somewhere in the region of 40,000 offical graves of Irishmen who died in British service.

How much of your money goes to what you say you support?

I don't know, I'm not an accountant with the British War graves commission, nor associated with it in anyway. However as an Irishman I feel compelled to support our war dead, as I do also by supporting Saint Patricks day. But then again you are probably too ignorant to know that the origins of that day is to celebrate Irish soldiers service in the United States Army.

Mick86 · 11-11-2006 12:59am

I'll be wearing a poppy to remember the Irishmen who died for European freedom and democracy, 1914-1918 and 1939-1945.

Chuimneoimid Ort.

Dub13 · 11-11-2006 1:37am

The thing wrote:

However as an Irishman I feel compelled to support our war dead, as I do also by supporting Saint Patricks day. But then again you are probably too ignorant to know that the origins of that day is to celebrate Irish soldiers service in the United States Army.

Less of the personal abuse please,lets try and keep this civil.

Dub13

Dub13 · 11-11-2006 1:58am

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Including those British soldiers who died and were injured in Ireland, Iraq and other independence conflicts. Contribute to that? No thanks.

Well you had better stop wearing the white poppy then....

"a white poppy is intended to convey the same meaning of remembrance of fallen soldiers, but also stands as a pledge to peace that war must not happen again".

So you are in fact remembering British soldiers who died in conflicts around the world.

A Dub in Glasgo · 11-11-2006 9:02am

I am well aware that the white poppy remembers all. It remembers them on the basis that war should not be repeated and it is something I agree with. The red poppy remembers the blood sacrifice from the British in all wars and

The Red Poppy sold by the Royal British Legion goes into maintaining war graves of fallen soldiers, including the 30,000 Irish men who died in the first world war the 5,000 who died in the second and countless others in other wars and conflicts with the British Army.

which happens to be the bit I replied to with the quote you used above.

flogen · 12-11-2006 6:28pm

I know it's sold in the UK by the Royal British Legion, but do any Irish organisations (veteran or otherwise) sell the poppy in Ireland?

It strikes me that as a country we do seem to be shaking off our old hang-ups in relation to Irish involvement in World War 1 and 2, and I think we should be mature enough now to see something like the poppy as a mark of respect for the fallen, and not something purely British.

Has anyone seen any politicians or perhaps even TV presenters in Ireland wearing it? I'd hate things to go down the route where people would be attacked for not wearing the pin, but at the same time I think people might be attacked for just wearing one at all as it stands.

mike65 · 12-11-2006 6:34pm

There is an Irish branch of the Legion, saw a chap on a bike with one with morning.

http://www.cidb.ie/comhairlevcs.nsf/dafc4ddd0be874478025708a004910d5/eb396b7e9575231e80256dea0048119f?OpenDocument

Newstalk did a vox-pox on the streets of Drogheeeeda and the views were mixed, only a few were covered in spittle and rage!

Mike.

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 12-11-2006 6:41pm

It's a British tradition, why would we do it here?

mike65 · 12-11-2006 6:44pm

Because its NOT a British tradition, ask a Kiwi.

Mike.

A Dub in Glasgo · 12-11-2006 6:50pm

Surely we should be commemorating all the dead of WW1 & 2 including the slaughter of civilians. The RBL red Poppy does not do that, it commemorates British armed forces in all wars/conflicts/disputes.

The poppy

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