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Speed camera mega-thread ***Read first post before posting***

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    #1322
    dougie-lampkin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 677 ✭✭✭dougie-lampkin


    warder6161 wrote: »
    Q 1 ; Was there a rule that these vans had to advertise they were operating on a stretch of road ?

    I was under that impression also, at the start we were told that roads being monitored will have signs up saying that a GoSafe van is operating. I've yet to see one of these signs. I personally find this very snaky, if we're to believe that these vans are purely there to slow us all down, shouldn't we be told transparently when these vans are operating?
    warder6161 wrote: »
    Spotted an unmarked van with camera onboard..i stopped asked the guy in the van what he was doing..he said he was just surveying the road on behalf of the gardai..i asked was he a garda he said no..when i questioned him another bit he said he worked for gosafe..asked him the above question he said the vans were clearly marked..what is to stop this company using the recordings from this unmarked van and say that they were recorded on a marked van..by the way this was parked on the approach road into buttevant from limerick where there are both a 60km and 50km limit within 50 yards of each other..they have been targeting this road for the last 6 weeks :mad:

    Fair play to him for talking to you :pac: If it's an unmarked GoSafe van, it's for surveying a potential money maker dangerous road. They record the number of vehicles speeding, and can therefore see how profitable dangerous the road is, and call in the marked van to actually catch offenders. They couldn't claim it was a marked van unless the required surveying had already been carried out. One would assume that it's the Gardaí directing GoSafe as to what roads to survey, so it would be clear that there's a problem if people are getting speeding fines when the van is only out surveying. As you say at the end there, I assume they've to spend more than an evening surveying, and at different times and days to know when the most income is available.

    But this is all assumption, since they're saying very little about the actual practicalities of these vans.


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    #1323
    warder6161
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭warder6161


    kbannon wrote: »
    Why not? There is no law against it.
    I've seen the gardai have two separate speed traps within a mile of each other.
    However, why survey a road that they are currently targetting? Surely thje actual speed trap van is gathering enough survey results.

    Again why?
    A speed trap can occur on any road but you object to them surveying a road?

    because wouldnt that make it easier to use both vans recordings as they would have a record of the marked van operating in the area..and yes i do object to them surveying different areas of a road..i was under the impression that the areas these vans were to be situated were dangerous/blackspot sections not on a straight approach road in to a village where you can park the van justoff the road verge slightly hidden by the hedgerow !


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    #1324
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    warder6161 wrote: »
    because wouldnt that make it easier to use both vans recordings as they would have a record of the marked van operating in the area..
    If there are two vans recording the number of speeders along a stretch, surely the results should be the same?
    warder6161 wrote: »
    and yes i do object to them surveying different areas of a road..i was under the impression that the areas these vans were to be situated were dangerous/blackspot sections not on a straight approach road in to a village where you can park the van justoff the road verge slightly hidden by the hedgerow !
    Whatever. Still doesn't take from the fact that whilst these are privately operated, the gardai have their own vans and cars which can monitor any public road without the need for any signage, etc.


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    #1325
    dougie-lampkin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 677 ✭✭✭dougie-lampkin


    kbannon wrote: »
    If there are two vans recording the number of speeders along a stretch, surely the results should be the same?

    Could it be they're surveying with an unmarked van how many people will have slowed down after seeing the first, marked van? That would show the effectiveness of the vans, if they were a few km's apart.


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    #1326
    warder6161
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭warder6161


    no problem with gardai doing there work,but if gosafe are meant to use signs they bloody well should ! two vans operating increases the company's chance of catching a speeding driver thus increasing there profits ! that is what annoys
    me !:mad:


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    #1327
    warder6161
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭warder6161


    dougie-lampkin wrote: »
    Could it be they're surveying with an unmarked van how many people will have slowed down after seeing the first, marked van? That would show the effectiveness of the vans, if they were a few km's apart.

    :D in an ideal world they would be...in ireland i doubt it !


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    #1328
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    warder6161 wrote: »
    no problem with gardai doing there work,but if gosafe are meant to use signs they bloody well should ! two vans operating increases the company's chance of catching a speeding driver thus increasing there profits ! that is what annoys
    me !:mad:
    1. show me where it says that they are meant to use signs. The only reference to "signs" that I can ever recall being mentioned was the signs on the vans.
    2. Give us an example of two vans doing a speed trap near each other


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    #1329
    warder6161
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭warder6161


    kbannon wrote: »
    1. show me where it says that they are meant to use signs. The only reference to "signs" that I can ever recall being mentioned was the signs on the vans.
    2. Give us an example of two vans doing a speed trap near each other

    1.that was the impression i had since this gosafe company started..
    2.already did on the buttevant to limerick road 1 van at the start of the village the 2nd van was near the lidl distribution centre..not making it up !


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    #1330
    PARKHEAD67
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭PARKHEAD67


    If your from Ennis-Out past the renault garage just past the Ballyala exit.She be parked up takin pics.For people outside of Ennis-its a very good bit outside the actual town.Strictly 50 km however:confused::confused:. I actually tried doin 50 km on this route. It was more dangerous at this speed than 70 or 80. These speed limits were designed for the 1970s FFS.Cars and roads have modernised since.Anyway, big flash went off so presume Im caught. SAFETY ME HOLE- Never has a death occured on this road.Im fair pissed off with this safety ****e they spout when all they want is $$$ off us.:mad:


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    #1331
    Top Dog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,164 ✭✭✭Top Dog


    warder6161 wrote: »
    2.already did on the buttevant to limerick road 1 van at the start of the village the 2nd van was near the lidl distribution centre..not making it up !
    The Lidl center is practically in Charleville - hardly what could be described as even remotely close to Buttevant village (sure you even have Ballyhea in between!)


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    #1332
    PARKHEAD67
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭PARKHEAD67


    warder6161 wrote: »
    1.that was the impression i had since this gosafe company started..
    2.already did on the buttevant to limerick road 1 van at the start of the village the 2nd van was near the lidl distribution centre..not making it up !
    Ya.They said signs would warn people.Trust me-These signs do not exist. Screwing people over again.Its all it is. SAFETY?? MY HOLE. We know the truth.


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    #1333
    warder6161
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭warder6161


    Top Dog wrote: »
    The Lidl center is practically in Charleville - hardly what could be described as even remotely close to Buttevant village (sure you even have Ballyhea in between!)

    it was on the ballyhea side of lidl not sure of the distance but still its only about 5 miles apart !


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    #1334
    warder6161
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭warder6161


    When will the safety cameras be in operation?
    From midnight on Monday 15th November 2010, safety cameras will be on the roads all across Ireland where fatal collisions are happening as a result of inappropriate speed.

    Who will operate the safety cameras?
    The safety cameras will be operated by trained GoSafe personnel using a range of vehicles. Safety cameras will be on the roads all across Ireland where fatal collisions are happening as a result of inappropriate speed.

    How will the locations be decided? Who is responsible for deciding the locations?
    An Garda Síochána has completed an extensive analysis of the collision history on the road network. Sections of road have been identified where a significant proportion of collisions occurred where speed was a contributory factor


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    #1335
    warder6161
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭warder6161


    how many fatal/serious collisions occurred at the edge of buttevant village?


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    #1336
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    warder6161 wrote: »
    Q 1 ; Was there a rule that these vans had to advertise they were operating on a stretch of road ?

    Q.2 ; What are the rules governing this gosafe company surveying roads?

    Spotted an unmarked van with camera onboard..i stopped asked the guy in the van what he was doing..he said he was just surveying the road on behalf of the gardai..i asked was he a garda he said no..when i questioned him another bit he said he worked for gosafe..asked him the above question he said the vans were clearly marked..what is to stop this company using the recordings from this unmarked van and say that they were recorded on a marked van..by the way this was parked on the approach road into buttevant from limerick where there are both a 60km and 50km limit within 50 yards of each other..they have been targeting this road for the last 6 weeks :mad:



    It's not altogether clear to me why there should be consternation regarding the survey vans.

    According to the Garda website, "the survey hours will be conducted from unmarked vans, in order to accurately observe and record the speeds at which vehicles are currently travelling, for survey purposes only."

    The purpose of the survey component of the programme, as briefly outlined in this Garda presentation, is to implement Phase 2 of the Enforcement Zone identification process: (a) to earmark "at least one" suitable enforcement location within the zone, and (b) "to establish the 85th percentile speed [greater than] the speed limit". Presumably if and when new locations are identified they will be notified to the public.

    Given the lack of explanatory detail in (b) above, I'm not 100% sure what they intend to do with their 85th percentile findings, but it is possible that if they find the 85th percentile to be greater than the posted speed limit in any location then they may conclude that the speed limit is too low there.

    Consider this excerpt from the Garda speed camera FAQ:
    What if I believe the speed limit on a road is inappropriate?
    Setting speed limits is the statutory function of the local authorities. As part of this project, speed surveys will be carried out in all speed collision zones. An Garda Síochána, the National Roads Authority and local authorities will work together to determine the appropriateness of speed limits within zones.
    AFAIK it is considered good practice to have the design speed of a road layout/alignment and the 85th percentile speed more or less the same. Speeding fines are not the preferred method of making the two converge, at least not among roads engineers. Then again, those who favour the Cash Cow theory may conclude that 85th percentile > speed limit = jackpot for the Dept of Finance mandarins.


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    #1337
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    groundhog-day_l.jpg


    "...this is Bill Murray, reporting from the site of an unmarked GoSafe survey van..."


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    #1338
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    PARKHEAD67 wrote: »
    Ya.They said signs would warn people.Trust me-These signs do not exist. Screwing people over again.Its all it is. SAFETY?? MY HOLE. We know the truth.
    Can you please provide some form of link to a reference where it was claimed that signs would be put in place?


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    #1339
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    kbannon wrote: »
    Can you please provide some form of link to a reference where it was claimed that signs would be put in place?

    Interestingly in Ardee, a town where the Go safe vans are marked as being placed (for some unknown reason as there's never been a fatality there due to traffic since I've been there) speed camera signs have gone up on every single road into the town since then.


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    #1340
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    draffodx wrote: »
    Interestingly in Ardee, a town where the Go safe vans are marked as being placed (for some unknown reason as there's never been a fatality there due to traffic since I've been there) speed camera signs have gone up on every single road into the town since then.



    Here are three old news reports mentioning road fatalities in the Ardee area. I have no knowledge of the exact locations in each case. Since you are living locally, perhaps you can shed more light?

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/teenager-to-appear-in-court-after-tragic-road-crash-claims-two-lives-475266.html

    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/meathsouth/articles/2009/08/19/390449-shock-as-star-cyclist-dies-in-fiery-crash/

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/man-killed-in-taxi-crash-just-outside-his-home-120653.html


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    #1341
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    There used to be a good map of road fatalitys but I can't find it.
    I did find this RSA one...
    http://public.healthatlasireland.ie/rsa2/index.html


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    #1342
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Here are three old news reports mentioning road fatalities in the Ardee area. I have no knowledge of the exact locations in each case. Since you are living locally, perhaps you can shed more light?

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/teenager-to-appear-in-court-after-tragic-road-crash-claims-two-lives-475266.html

    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/meathsouth/articles/2009/08/19/390449-shock-as-star-cyclist-dies-in-fiery-crash/

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/man-killed-in-taxi-crash-just-outside-his-home-120653.html

    One is in the town the others are not, the one in the town was not due to speeding traffic.


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    #1343
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    draffodx wrote: »
    One is in the town the others are not, the one in the town was not due to speeding traffic.

    Your previous statement was:
    draffodx wrote: »
    Interestingly in Ardee, a town where the Go safe vans are marked as being placed (for some unknown reason as there's never been a fatality there due to traffic since I've been there) speed camera signs have gone up on every single road into the town since then.

    Fair enough, ignoring the word "never" can we assume that you are referring to a time-frame of, say, 2006 to date?

    Two pedestrians were killed on Tierney Street, Ardee in December 2005. The driver had been drinking and had an alcohol reading of 68 microgrammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood. The legal limit was 35 per 100.

    Does it matter much to the families of the people killed, one of whom was a mother of six, and to anybody who cares about road safety, that this appalling incident was supposedly "not due to speeding traffic"?

    Derek McCormack, 20, hit the couple so hard with his car that one body was found 15 metres from the site of the impact, a court heard.

    The couple were walking home after a night out and were just a short distance from their house when they were struck by McCormack's red Volkswagen Polo in the early hours of December 3, 2005. Garda Kevin Jackson said he saw ladies shoes and an umbrella some distance away and then saw Mrs Shields' body on the lawn of a house 15 metres from the car.

    Prosecuting counsel Kevin Segrave said forensic evidence established the car was out of control as it turned on to Tierney Street, struck the kerb on the wrong side and then went back to its correct side where it struck the couple.

    That kind of thing doesn't happen at 30 kph, and possibly not at 50 kph either. Be that as it may, it is of no comfort to anyone to debate the role of speed in the Ardee incident. AGS have said that the speed/safety cameras are to be placed at the locations of previous fatalities, and I don't see much value in querying that.

    My impression to date (based on nothing more than anecdotal reports about one or two locations) is that the speed/safety cameras are being sited wherever a fatal road collision has occurred, even where excessive speed has not been identified as the primary cause. Given the irrational hatred some motorists have for speed/safety cameras, and towards speed control in general, perhaps this is an attempt by AGS to gain acceptance for the programme? In my opinion there should be a strong possibility that such speed surveillance could occur anywhere at any time, not just at sites of previous fatalities. The increased vigilance among motorists might ultimately lead to a widespread change in attitude about speed, and about safer driving in general. That's not an evidence-based observation, by the way, just a personal preference.


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    #1344
    Top Dog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,164 ✭✭✭Top Dog


    warder6161 wrote: »
    how many fatal/serious collisions occurred at the edge of buttevant village?
    There's been a few at the Charleville side of the village - just beyond the Opel dealership where there's a few sharpish bends. I'm pretty sure there's even a few monuments at the side of the road in memory of the fatalities.

    And the Ballybeg bends at the other side of the village have seen a good few accidents too.


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    #1345
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Did the Gardai say that the vans would be just on roads where there were deaths, or deaths and injuries? Most people only find out about deaths. Life changing injuries from crashes are often never reported.

    I can't see what everybody is getting worked up about give that the Garda speed vans and guns can be anywhere, and new garda cars while moving can also detect the speed of cars in front of them.


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    #1346
    dolallyoh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭dolallyoh


    White Fiat private van parked on kerb opposite lansdowne valley park as you leave inchicore toward red cow at moment. Think its a 60kmph zone. Never seen one here before. Every other taxi driver in Dublin will pass that tonight...


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    #1347
    jimmynokia
    Registered Users Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭jimmynokia


    money makin scam full stop


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    #1348
    North Cork
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭North Cork


    Do they flash at night


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    #1349
    dolallyoh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭dolallyoh


    Pretty sure they don't. Face traffic so can't flash anyway.


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    #1350
    raveydavey
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭raveydavey


    My mate has had 2 speeding fines sent to him. He just sends it back with a Polish persons name and their Polish address claiming they were driving. It seems to work. Its very wrong of course. Do the Gardai send the fine to Poland then?


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    #1351
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    raveydavey wrote: »
    My mate has had 2 speeding fines sent to him. He just sends it back with a Polish persons name and their Polish address claiming they were driving. It seems to work. Its very wrong of course. Do the Gardai send the fine to Poland then?

    Onus is on you to prove that. He'd be in up to his neck if anyone ever enlarges the image and his face is behind the wheel. Risky as you'd be lying on an official form etc etc. Not sure anyone would bother but only takes one.

    As regards the flash, unconfirmed but with Infrared Illumination there would be no need. In fact it would be better than flash owing to a greater black/white contrast at night.


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