General UFC Chit Chat/News

Denners

DrPhilG wrote: »

I agree. Because the MMA laymen doesn't realise that the fights are mismatches!

Daley vs Smith and Silva vs Kyle were lop sided too.

Can't agree that Daley v Smith was a mismatch, they are both strikers with Daley having an advantage, Cung Le v Smith was a bigger mismatch on paper and look how that turned out the first time. I have seen fights in UFC that were bigger mismatches tbf.

Silva v Kyle, Kyle dropped Silva and had him hurt, 2nd round Silva got mount and pounded him out. I wouldn't call that lop sided, each round was dominated by a different fighter.

I will leave it there anyway but I like SF as an organisation, they put on exciting events and I enjoy them.

I would rather see a KO than watch too equally matched fighters grind out a boring decision.

MrStuffins

scudzilla wrote: »

The last few UK UFC cards have been dire and i'm sure SF could compete, just put a few decent fights on and fill the undercard wit UK fighters, same as UFC

Exactly! And IMO, their best match ups would equal what UFC put on in the UK. Do you think SF's best cards would be much better than the Sanchez v Kampmann card? I don't think so!

Denners wrote: »

There is a good few fighters in SF who would do well in the UFC, maybe not champions but would still be very competitive. To suggest otherwise is just wrong.

Exactly! Just like the SPL. There's a few fighters who would do well in the EPL, perhaps not at the Top 4, but they would be competitive.

SF=SPL UFC=EPL

MrStuffins

Denners wrote: »

I would rather see a KO than watch too equally matched fighters grind out a boring decision.

:rolleyes:

I'd rather €100 than €50. Bit of a silly statement.

You say that as if they are the only 2 possible outcomes. As if SF is the home of the KO and UFC and other organisations only have boring decisions.

Denners

MrStuffins wrote: »

Exactly! Just like the SPL. There's a few fighters who would do well in the EPL, perhaps not at the Top 4, but they would be competitive.

SF=SPL UFC=EPL

That isn't what you said though, you said SF was full of guys who couldn't make it in the UFC and a bunch of also rans. That is wrong.

unknown13

Denners wrote: »

That was the best card I saw last year, it was a cracking event yet you find issues to complain about. Lindland is definitely past it but Smith v Daley was a great match-up, they were both going to stand and fight and that is what happened.

That is your opinion and I respect that because we did see a fair few KO's and in some UFC's we haven't seen as many and not many of the fashion that was on that card.

The reason why I felt that card was bad was because you had Paul Daley, who if he could wrestle would be in the top 3 in the World at WW fighting a guy who only knew how to come forward and through punches.

Henderson / Babalu wasn't a mismatch at all. Henderson just showed that he is one of the better fighters in SF.

Lindland was finished and Lawler isn't yet and why they matched them up was stupid.

MrStuffins

Denners wrote: »

That isn't what you said though, you said SF was full of guys who couldn't make it in the UFC and a bunch of also rans. That is wrong.

Yeah you're right. Because having main-cards with Bobby Lashley and Hershel Walker is top notch stuff

The ratio of SF guys who could compete in the UFC is about the same as the ratio of SPL guys who could compete in the EPL!

I;m not saying they don't put on exciting shows, Rushden & Diamonds v Crawley town can be an exciting game of football, but a lot of the fights are completely meaningless as far as finding out who the best guys in the world are. And I don't care what the sport is, every sport is geared toward finding out who the best is. That's why Championships exist.

Denners

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yeah you're right. Because having main-cards with Bobby Lashley and Hershel Walker is top notch stuff

It is immature to mention 2 fighters that are blatant money rackets with no real prospect in their division, just like Kimbo and James Toney were for the UFC! The point is you said Strikeforce was full of guys who couldn't make it in the UFC and a bunch of also rans.

I wasn't suggesting their promotion is littered with talent from top to bottom but there is fighters that could compete in UFC, something you stated there wasn't.

I've made my point anyway but I'm sure you can acknowledge that your initial statement was lacking logic.

Don't forget to watch the event tonight now

MrStuffins

Denners wrote: »

It is immature to mention 2 fighters that are blatant money rackets with no real prospect in their division

Attack the post, not the poster

The point is you said Strikeforce was full of guys who couldn't make it in the UFC and a bunch of also rans.

Yes, COULDN'T, Could not, past tense. Lawler, Diaz, Smith, Lindland, Werdum, all guys who didn't make it in the UFC, were let go, and now fight in SPL... sorry, I mean SF!

The vast majority of the SF roster would get nowhere NEAR the mid level UFC guys. In my opinion, these are Also-Rans.

I wasn't suggesting their promotion is littered with talent from top to bottom but there is fighters that could compete in UFC, something you stated there wasn't.

Nope, I've always said Diaz can probably compete in the UFC. But in the past, he couldn't and got the boot

I've made my point anyway but I'm sure you can acknowledge that your initial statement was lacking logic.

Nope, there was just a lack of understanding of the tenses in English

seadnamac

Strikeforce had a great spell there in the second half of 2009 where they put on some great events like Cyborg/Carano, Fedor/Rogers and Evolution which in particular was awesome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikeforce:_Evolution) and I really enjoyed watching it back then. Eighteen months or more later though and they've completely blown the momentum they had as far as I'm concerned. Crap cards, mediocre fighters, horrible production values. It's got to a stage where I don't really care about them anymore and have no interest in tonights rubbish looking card. You could count on one hand the number of fighters they have that could make any kind of impact in the UFC and they've done nothing to market their talent or create stars anyway. They've no one to blame but themselves.

unknown13

Melendez / Thompson on that Evolution card was an absolute cracker of a fight.

ScareGilly

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yes, COULDN'T, Could not, past tense. Lawler, Diaz, Smith, Lindland, Werdum, all guys who didn't make it in the UFC, were let go, and now fight in SPL... sorry, I mean SF!

The vast majority of the SF roster would get nowhere NEAR the mid level UFC guys. In my opinion, these are Also-Rans.

Don't put Werdum into that category, he lost to Arlovski, former UFC champion and JDS, future Heavyweight champion (:rolleyes:), went 2-2 and got released then. It was more down to contract negotiations than his UFC form if I remember correctly..

IMO, the UFC champions would beat the strikeforce guys, but the top strikeforce fighters would be in the top 10 in the UFC without a doubt.
HW: Overeem, Fedor, Silva, Barnett, Werdum.
LHW: Feijao, Hendo, Babalu, Mo Lawal, Gegard Mousasi.
MW: Jacare, Hendo, Mayhem... Cung Le & Tim Kennedy perhaps, probably just outside though.

Nope, I've always said Diaz can probably compete in the UFC. But in the past, he couldn't and got the boot

Woah, hold on there.. He was on a 3 fight win streak when he went to Pride, beat Gomi, tested positive for weed and the result was turned to
a NC. He was then released. To say he couldn't compete is ridiculous imo..

seadnamac

ScareGilly wrote: »

Don't put Werdum into that category, he lost to Arlovski, former UFC champion and JDS, future Heavyweight champion (:rolleyes:), went 2-2 and got released then. It was more down to contract negotiations than his UFC form if I remember correctly..

Yea, Zuffa didn't think he is was worth the money they were paying him, ie. he didn't cut it.

IMO, the UFC champions would beat the strikeforce guys, but the top strikeforce fighters would be in the top 10 in the UFC without a doubt.
HW: Overeem, Fedor, Silva, Barnett, Werdum.
LHW: Feijao, Hendo, Babalu, Mo Lawal, Gegard Mousasi.
MW: Jacare, Hendo, Mayhem... Cung Le & Tim Kennedy perhaps, probably just outside though.

You can't be serious, some of those are laughable. Hendo, Babalu, Lawal, Mayhem? Cung Le and Tim Kennedy? I've have my doubts about Feijao and Jacare and Barnett in 2011 would have a hell of a lot to prove. You're severely overestimating the quality of those fighters.

Jayo_M

seadnamac wrote: »

Yea, Zuffa didn't think he is was worth the money they were paying him, ie. he didn't cut it.



You can't be serious, some of those are laughable. Hendo, Babalu, Lawal, Mayhem? Cung Le and Tim Kennedy? I've have my doubts about Feijao and Jacare and Barnett in 2011 would have a hell of a lot to prove. You're severely overestimating the quality of those fighters.

Why is Henderson laughable? He was on a three fight win streak in UFC and only lost to Rampage and Anderson Silva. He left UFC because he wanted more money after Dana gave Tito a ridiculous contract. Dana's also expressed interest in Cung Le, the only thing holding him back in MMA is his lack of commitment due to the money he can make in movies. Jacare couldn't cut it in UFC? He'd absolutely maul most of the UFC MW's outside of Anderson. Mayhem was seconds away from finishing Shields, he's no joke. King Mo and Mousasi are serious prospects and would do great against alot of UFC LHWs. Same goes for Kennedy at MW.

seadnamac

Jayo_M wrote: »

Why is Henderson laughable? He was on a three fight win streak in UFC and only lost to Rampage and Anderson Silva. He left UFC because he wanted more money after Dana gave Tito a ridiculous contract. Dana's also expressed interest in Cung Le, the only thing holding him back in MMA is his lack of commitment due to the money he can make in movies. Jacare couldn't cut it in UFC? He'd absolutely maul most of the UFC MW's outside of Anderson. Mayhem was seconds away from finishing Shields, he's no joke. King Mo and Mousasi are serious prospects and would do great against alot of UFC LHWs. Same goes for Kennedy at MW.

Jacare would maul most of the division? Based on what exactly? Being the best of a bad bunch in SF? Who the hell has he beaten to warrent such a ridiculous statement? King Mo and Mousasi are definitely prospects but no way are they sure thing contenders the minute they stepped into the Octogan which was the point I responding to. The only reason White might want Le is because of market potential he would bring, he hasn't done anything of note in MMA in three years and he didn't exactly do much before that either, unless you think beating Scott Smith is enough to make a bonefide contender? Tim Kennedy is another with a mediocre record who only looks good because the rest of SF is crap. Get a grip.

Oh_Noes

seadnamac wrote: »

Jacare would maul most of the division? Based on what exactly? Being the best of a bad bunch in SF?

Probably based on the fact that as soon as the UFC could get their hands on Strikeforce's MW champion, Jake Sheilds, they gave him an almost immediate title shot and introduced him as a world champion.

That should tell you a lot about how the UFC really feels the standard of Strikeforce is.

seadnamac

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Probably based on the fact that as soon as the UFC could get their hands on Strikeforce's MW champion, Jake Sheilds, they gave him an almost immediate title shot and introduced him as a world champion.

That should tell you a lot about how the UFC really feels the standard of Strikeforce is.

No, that tells you what the UFC feels about the standard of Jake Shields. It doesn't tell you anything about what the UFC feels about the standard of Strikeforce. Your reasoning is completely flawed. Also, the reason they took him was because he was just after beating Dan Henderson specifically, who was straight out of the UFC. So Strikeforce barely came into the equation.

Oh_Noes

By your reasoning, the UFC feels Jake Shields is a title contender

Based on what exactly? Being the best of a bad bunch in SF?

My reasoning is flawed? Yours isn't too hot either.

Denners

seadnamac wrote: »

Also, the reason they took him was because he was just after beating Dan Henderson specifically, who was straight out of the UFC. So Strikeforce barely came into the equation.

You are wrong, I specifically remember Dana bitching about SF for feeding Shields to Hendo and stating that even if Shields lost (which was SF's preferred outcome) that he would still be interested in signing him.

To dismiss guys like Mayhem Miller, Hendo and Jacare is silly, they would all be very competitive in UFC.

MrStuffins

ScareGilly wrote: »

Don't put Werdum into that category, he lost to Arlovski, former UFC champion and JDS, future Heavyweight champion (:rolleyes:), went 2-2 and got released then. It was more down to contract negotiations than his UFC form if I remember correctly..

IMO, the UFC champions would beat the strikeforce guys, but the top strikeforce fighters would be in the top 10 in the UFC without a doubt.
HW: Overeem, Fedor, Silva, Barnett, Werdum.
LHW: Feijao, Hendo, Babalu, Mo Lawal, Gegard Mousasi.
MW: Jacare, Hendo, Mayhem... Cung Le & Tim Kennedy perhaps, probably just outside though.


Woah, hold on there.. He was on a 3 fight win streak when he went to Pride, beat Gomi, tested positive for weed and the result was turned to
a NC. He was then released. To say he couldn't compete is ridiculous imo..

This post is so full of ridiculous amounts of fail that i'm not actually going to respond to it. I will just use this post to highlight the fact that it is a ridiculous post!

It's a great coincidence, in the context of this post, that King Mo's surname sounds like "LOL"!

Oh_Noes

It should be called the Sherdog thread tbh.

MrStuffins

Oh_Noes wrote: »

It should be called the Sherdog thread tbh.

Yeah you're probably right. After all, Sherdog is also full of guys who think Jacare (a guy who has never even FOUGHT a Top 10 guy, never mind beaten one) would maul most fighters in the world all because Jake Shields got a UFC contract :rolleyes:

Oh_Noes

Yeah thanks, you couldn't have done a better job of illustrating my point.

MrStuffins

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Yeah thanks, you couldn't have done a better job of illustrating my point.

Yup. There are too many posters here who would fit right into sherdog. Those who like to latch onto their "UFC isn't MMA" card and pretend that unproven prospects are world beaters.

Jacare is a decent fighter, bit he gets nowhere near Silva, Sonnen, Marquart, Maia, Okami etc. If he wants to be a top guy, he has to fight top guys. Not the bloody Mayhem Millers and Joey Villasenor's of the world!

But, of course, Jake Shields is now a UFC fighter. Than changes...er..... everything

Oh_Noes

Yes he is a very good ultimate fighter but Brock Lesnar would pwn him.

MrStuffins

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Yes he is a very good ultimate fighter but Brock Lesnar would pwn him.

Jayo_M

seadnamac wrote: »

Jacare would maul most of the division? Based on what exactly? Being the best of a bad bunch in SF? Who the hell has he beaten to warrent such a ridiculous statement? King Mo and Mousasi are definitely prospects but no way are they sure thing contenders the minute they stepped into the Octogan which was the point I responding to. The only reason White might want Le is because of market potential he would bring, he hasn't done anything of note in MMA in three years and he didn't exactly do much before that either, unless you think beating Scott Smith is enough to make a bonefide contender? Tim Kennedy is another with a mediocre record who only looks good because the rest of SF is crap. Get a grip.

Based on what? Maybe based on his ridiculous BJJ. He's a better grappler than Maia and Palhares in my opinion, better everything than Bisping and Sonnen falls into submissions. And its not like UFCs MW division is exactly stacked. It wasn't too long ago that Thales Leites got a title shot with as much a mediocre record as Tim Kennedy. Maia's record doesn't really hold up to much scrutiny either.

As for the comment from someone about Lashley and Walker being on main-cards...Lesnar and Toney ring any bells? In fairness, Lesnar proved to be a good addition to the HW division, but he was 1-0 at the time of his first fight in UFC. Only saving grace is at least they didn't put them in against real talent.

Btw, I'm not trying to say SF > UFC or anything, just that SF is far from "crap" and the gap in talent between most of the divisions isn't that much. The top fighters in each of SF's divisions would be able to at least compete in the UFC.

seadnamac

Jayo_M wrote: »

Based on what? Maybe based on his ridiculous BJJ. He's a better grappler than Maia and Palhares in my opinion, better everything than Bisping and Sonnen falls into submissions. And its not like UFCs MW division is exactly stacked. It wasn't too long ago that Thales Leites got a title shot with as much a mediocre record as Tim Kennedy. Maia's record doesn't really hold up to much scrutiny either.

Yea because submission wins over the likes of true contenders Robbie Lawler and Matt Lindland really prove your point there.....He might go onto be a real contender but right now he has done nothing to warrant such praise.

Jayo_M

seadnamac wrote: »

Yea because submission wins over the likes of true contenders Robbie Lawler and Matt Lindland really prove your point there.....He might go onto be a real contender but right now he has done nothing to warrant such praise.

Eh, I think the fact that he's probably one of the best BJJ players of all-time really proves my point and the fact that he's been able to adapt that to MMA and compliment it with good wrestling. 11 of his wins are by submission and the guys a former ADCC champ and ADCC runner-up in the absolute division to Roger Gracie. He more than warrants the praise considering his record in grappling tournaments and in MMA.

seadnamac

Jayo_M wrote: »

Eh, I think the fact that he's probably one of the best BJJ players of all-time really proves my point and the fact that he's been able to adapt that to MMA and compliment it with good wrestling. 11 of his wins are by submission and the guys a former ADCC champ and ADCC runner-up in the absolute division to Roger Gracie. He more than warrants the praise considering his record in grappling tournaments and in MMA.

None of that proves that he would "maul" the majority of the UFC MW division, whether you like it or not.

ScareGilly

MrStuffins wrote: »

This post is so full of ridiculous amounts of fail that i'm not actually going to respond to it. I will just use this post to highlight the fact that it is a ridiculous post!

It's a great coincidence, in the context of this post, that King Mo's surname sounds like "LOL"!

Well, why not respond to it and point out where it fails?

The only HW not is arguably Barnett, I would have him in the top 10 although we haven't seen much of him over the last while. As would others I know.

LHW; Feijao, Hendo and Mousasi would easily be in the top 10. Lawal's wrestling easily puts him in the top 15 and I probably shouldn't have put Babalu in there.

MW; All would be in the top 15, Dana said he wanted to sign Cung Le if he put more effort into his MMA career.. Mayhem, Hendo and Jacare would definitely be in the top 10.

WW; Only Nick Diaz really, I'm probably forgetting people though.

LW; Aoki, Kawajiri,(If you include them) and Melendez would also be there. On a side note I'd love to see KJ Noons fight in the UFC..

seadnamac wrote: »

Yea, Zuffa didn't think he is was worth the money they were paying him, ie. he didn't cut it.

That's like saying Hendo was cut, they both chose to leave, they could've accepted contracts that were offered to them, but they chose to leave instead, they weren't cut.

You can't be serious, some of those are laughable. Hendo, Babalu, Lawal, Mayhem? Cung Le and Tim Kennedy? I've have my doubts about Feijao and Jacare and Barnett in 2011 would have a hell of a lot to prove. You're severely overestimating the quality of those fighters.

Babalu should've been left out, I admit that. Lawal is easily in the top 15, Mayhem would be top 10-12 in MW. Tim Kennedy would be in the top 14-18 imo. I agree, Feijao still has a lot to prove but I still think he could hang with a lot of the UFC fighters. We haven't really seen Barnett properly fight in years, but if the fight with Rogers happens, that should answer a lot of question, and will, imo, put him back in the top 10.

seadnamac wrote: »

Jacare would maul most of the division? Based on what exactly? Being the best of a bad bunch in SF? Who the hell has he beaten to warrent such a ridiculous statement? King Mo and Mousasi are definitely prospects but no way are they sure thing contenders the minute they stepped into the Octogan which was the point I responding to. The only reason White might want Le is because of market potential he would bring, he hasn't done anything of note in MMA in three years and he didn't exactly do much before that either, unless you think beating Scott Smith is enough to make a bonefide contender? Tim Kennedy is another with a mediocre record who only looks good because the rest of SF is crap. Get a grip.

seadnamac wrote: »

Yea because submission wins over the likes of true contenders Robbie Lawler and Matt Lindland really prove your point there.....He might go onto be a real contender but right now he has done nothing to warrant such praise.

seadnamac wrote: »

None of that proves that he would "maul" the majority of the UFC MW division, whether you like it or not.

Well, he's schooled Randy Couture in a grappling tournament

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_q4Yf0SdAM

And considering how well he did against Demian Maia, who has mauled all of the MWs he's come up against bar the best fighter on the planet..

Jacare's jiu jitsu is around the same level as Demian Maia, he also has far better striking and better takedowns, Demian is bigger, and much more likeable though..