DCU to rejoin USI, your thoughts?

I guess we can only wait for the next College View

RyDar

I was at the class rep training,what I gathered from this is that USI is all talk and no walk, they haven't actually done anything.All they can say is "we plan to do this and plan to this,and this and this and this", they are a stagnant,politically affiliated organisation that would have zero benefit to the students of DCU. My own personal opinion is that the only reason they want us to join is because it's 10,000 more soldiers to add to their ranks.

If we join this year then it will be free,but we will have to pay the next year, however even if we join this year we will not be able to avail of many (if any) USI facilities such as PINK training,Sab training and most other benefits.

I am 100% for the student body deciding whether we affiliate or not, that's why we passed a vote for a campus-wide referendum,however my own personal opinion is that it is an organisation which acts in its' own interest before it acts in the interest of students,they can talk the talk but they can't walk the walk and any affiliation with this organisation is of little or no benefit to DCU students and the 8 euro a year fee (which every student has to pay) could go to much better causes across the campus.

Laydee

gizmo wrote: »

So are the SU taking a side on this or do they have to remain impartial? If so, then I hope to hell we have some competent people leading the no vote.

Anyone can start a No campaign afaik.

Gman1

Ive been reading through this topic, and then had a gander at the USI's website. To me all they seem to do is provide information to students, organise marches, and fight for rights of students.

This is from their website on what they actually do, and to be honest it aint much. Some of the below are in the EQUAL STATUS ACT, 2000.

So there isnt much point to join the USI.

The Union works for:
- An education & training system open to all, irrespective of any consideration of national origin, race, sex, sexuality, creed, political beliefs or economic circumstances, so that each individual can realise their full potential in the service of the Irish people.

- An education & training system that through the development of art and literature, natural and social sciences truly serves the interests of the people of Ireland.

- The right of students to a decent standard of living, with the right to adequate financial support, proper housing and future prospects of employment in Ireland.

- The defence and promotion of all democratic and human rights.

- The provision of student services for the benefit of the membership on the principle that control of student services should lie with the membership.

Hauk

We really really should rejoin the USI. We should at least unify under a national student banner.

myk

Mr.S wrote: »

Hmm. Could this have anything to do with the proposition of higher college fees and all that?

Noticed that the USI are on the posters for the student march. Seems like every college is trying to gang up, and going through USI seems like the best way?

DCU can co-operate with USI on student marches and national campaigns. That is what we did when I was in DCU and active in the SU. It is not necessary to affiliate and pay €8 in order to work on a national campaign.

Interestingly though the current USI officers seem more and more keen to not co-operate with disaffiliates by cutting them off from Pink Training and other activities. Seems like a bad attitude to me.

gizmo

Hauk wrote: »

We really really should rejoin the USI. We should at least unify under a national student banner.

myk

Hauk wrote: »

We really really should rejoin the USI. We should at least unify under a national student banner.

That is an expensive banner you are looking at; an expensive, unreformed, low-quality banner.

lithiumoxide

What about forming an alternative to USI? I know there'd be a lot of work involved in setting it up and then developing it, but if there was a better alternative to USI maybe some universities would change over?

myk

lithiumoxide wrote: »

What about forming an alternative to USI? I know there'd be a lot of work involved in setting it up and then developing it, but if there was a better alternative to USI maybe some universities would change over?

I think a better option would be for DCU SU to set out what they want from a national union including maximum costs, number of sabbats, role of sabbats, what focus on issues. Then to say to USI that we would affiliate if they reach those criteria. Obviously different colleges will want different things from a national union, but such a plan would be a good start to the reform process.

Art_Wolf

If they have no power to actually change anything then is there much point to joining? I had never followed what they did previously but, for instance, I see they brought out a 'USI Graduate Unemployment Policy' and I to see what becomes of it.

One issue in this thread I see is the cost/teir expenses, which seem strange as my basic understanding of economies of scale would say training would be cheaper the more unions were involved...

Overall, I almost feel like cheating if the USI do accomplish something on a national scale as the change would be rolled out to all colleges, affiliates or not.

myk

Art_Wolf wrote: »

One issue in this thread I see is the cost/teir expenses, which seem strange as my basic understanding of economies of scale would say training would be cheaper the more unions were involved...

There are two issues here. One is that many of their costs go on salaries; and you can decide for yourself how useful these salaries sabbats and staff members are for affiliated colleges.

The other is oversight. The further away spending takes place from the people who bear the burden of costs, the more like there is to be inefficiencies. In SUs generally there can be wastes of students' money. The students have minimal interest in spending by the SU and therefore money can be wasted. With USI; another step away from the average student, this problem is magnified.

myk

I was out on campus today, and saw the College View.

I see the main piece on USI in the College View was written by Steven Conlon, a former paid USI sabbatical officer. The editorial seems to have glossed over the main negative points of USI. And the way the reporting of the discussion at Union Council it appears that the cost is being brushed under the carpet.

I predict based on what I read, that a referendum to re-affiliate with USI will be passed.

tomar-re

Hi all sorry to be away for so long, but just to remind you, the €3 is for national congress and training.
So sabbat training is has already been paid for out of the capitation fee in years gone by, the LGBT has been paid out of the capitation that went to societies and the rest will be going to fund national congress.
The best I have heard about national congress is that it is great fun and there is loads of drinking in the evenings, it appears that the reps that unions send are more into the drinking then making changes to USI policy. I would really love to be put up in a hotel for 3 days to drink and argue with people and be a paid sabbatical at the same time.

myk

tomar-re wrote: »

The best I have heard about national congress is that it is great fun and there is loads of drinking in the evenings, it appears that the reps that unions send are more into the drinking then making changes to USI policy. I would really love to be put up in a hotel for 3 days to drink and argue with people and be a paid sabbatical at the same time.

http://www.sin.ie/cms/view/956/

An NUIG student describes the most recent congress

The USI Congress is held to elect new officers for the coming year and to implement new policies for the organisation. This year it is taking place over four days. Every delegate gets to stay three nights in the four star Carlton Shearwater Hotel and spa resort in Ballinasloe, Co Galway. All your meals are provided. The location was handy for the Galway contingent, who could nip back into town if they needed to, for example for the Socs Ball on Monday night.

Art_Wolf

Sorry am I reading that correctly - this congress was to vote on a number of resolutions.. that took 4 days.. and voting was actually done by a show of hands?

So NUIG sent 22 people.. "The party was made up of present and future Students’ Union officers, class reps and hangers-on." are they all voting members?

Ok I can see a reason to get present and future SU officers from around USI together, introductions etc though would have made more sense to have done during one of their training/team building workshops.

Still 4 days to vote on stuff? These resolutions obviously were emailed and discussed at length before the congress so which individual SUs could not vote internally and pass on their final tally is mind boggling.

tomar-re

Art_Wolf wrote: »

Sorry am I reading that correctly - this congress was to vote on a number of resolutions.. that took 4 days.. and voting was actually done by a show of hands?

Still 4 days to vote on stuff? These resolutions obviously were emailed and discussed at length before the congress so which individual SUs could not vote internally and pass on their final tally is mind boggling.

It's not democratic unless you were drinking with the other voters the nigh before on the students penny.

I see that the USI education officer is very against the registration fee, funny how USI brought that one in instead of any real reform. Status quo for the fail! http://www.usi.ie/officers/education-officer.html
Thanks Colm i really want to study in a system with less money next year.

Arquinsiel

So really.... what the **** is this "pink training" thing? There's not a jot of information on the USI website according to their search.

tomar-re

Arquinsiel wrote: »

So really.... what the **** is this "pink training" thing? There's not a jot of information on the USI website according to their search.

Pink training is for LGBT groups in each college to get some training in how to deal with someone that is having difficulty with their sexuality. Now there is a non-USI option being organised this year by DCU UL and others so USI don't benefit us there.

face1990

Arquinsiel wrote: »

So really.... what the **** is this "pink training" thing? There's not a jot of information on the USI website according to their search.

From what I've heard it's a day or two of talks and conferences about LGBT Soc related stuff. It may be interesting to go to, but isn't worth the cost of reaffiliating. Similar events are run by non-USI colleges for a fraction of the cost.
The LGBT Soc in DCU was told earlier this year that they could attend Pink Training (as they have in previous years) as long as DCU set a date for a referendum. About a month ago, they were told they could only attend if the referendum was passed.

As a member of the LGBT Soc myself I've had enough of the USI and I don't want to help pay their wages. They're just another layer of bureaucracy that we don't need.

RyDar

Lads the bottom line is USI will not benefit us in any way whatsoever.
There is PINK training being organised between the disaffiliated colleges already.
They claim to serve people regardless of gender,race,sexual orientation or political beliefs, yet USI are a party-politically affiliated organisation.
And another fact is that USI is controlled by the LGBT groups. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for equality, but this organisation is controlled almost entirely by their LGBT members.

The list goes on and on and on....

tomar-re

RyDar wrote: »

They claim to serve people regardless of gender,race,sexual orientation or political beliefs, yet USI are a party-politically affiliated organisation.
And another fact is that USI is controlled by the LGBT groups. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for equality, but this organisation is controlled almost entirely by their LGBT members.

Not sure nor touching the LGBT thing with a barge pole but the USI constitution says that their democracey is based on "The complete autonomy of the Union from all state, college or external authorities, including allowing no interference in its elections, policy-making or finance."
Lol

Green Hand Guy

This has to be the most civil thread I've ever read here. All of DCU united in their dislike of USI

monument

How many full and part time students are there now?

Going by last year's number of students the USI will cost students over €77,000 per year, with around €50,000 per year going direct to the USI.

Dear DCU students,

As a result of a vote by Union Council on two dates 13/10/2010 and 20/10/2009, the following was actioned;

A. There will be a referendum on: DCU Students' Union (DCUSU) remaining dissaffiliated to Union of Students' in Ireland (USI) or DCUSU affiliating with USI.

The following articles will be added to DCUSU Constitution in the event of the motion being passed

Addition of Article 13.4
13.4: The DCUSU is a member of the Union of Students in Ireland (USI).

13.4.1: The affiliation fees for membership of the USI shall be set at €8 per full-time student member and €4 for part-time student member which shall be added to the student registration fee charge. The Union shall pay the USI €5 for each full-time student and €2.50 for each part-time student identified in the student census. Remaining funds shall be ringfenced in the budget to cover the cost of attending USI meetings, training and events.

13.4.2: Membership of the USI shall be reviewed by Union Council every two full academic years of affiliation. Any changes to the unit cost of membership to the USI during membership shall require immediate referendum for the year in which the change takes effect.

B. Referendum will take place during Week 7 of Semester 1, 8th November 2010 - 12th November 2010.

C. Canvassing may commence from Monday 8th November until Referendum date concludes.

D. Students will be able to vote on Wednesday 10th November and Thursday 11th of November from 9am-10pm both days.

E. DCUSU Executive members will maintain neutral stance until the referendum date concludes.

F. DCUSU will provide a campus wide non-biased, informative campaign on what USI is. The aim is to educate all DCU students to ensure they complete an informed vote.

So, what is USI?
DCUSU encourages ALL students to look up what USI is and what they do. There will be flyers and posters everywhere filling you in on what they do and who they are over hte next few weeks.

Feel strongly about the topic and want to run a campaign?
If you are interested in starting a campaign for or against USI, please do not hesitate to come up to the SU to enquire. Read the attached Referendum Regualtions to see what exactly you can do, and what you must do to register as a campaign team. It is great fun to get involved, so think about it. The Students' Union hope a lot of people get involved right across the campus!

Get out and vote....PLEASE!!

We need to hit quorum, this means we need at least 10% of the registered students at DCU to learn about USI and get out and vote.

So that is all for now, in the meantime, please read our information campaign, do your own research, form an opinion and VOTE!

Any queries, please do not hesitate to contact me

Regards,

Returning Officer, DCU Students Union 2010/11

CollegeSpew

Most people I hear are estimating about €80,000, probably just a round-up of the figure you mentioned.

myk

It is disappointing that the SU Exec couldn't agree to have a position on this issue one way or the other.

Has the deduction of USI fees been agreed with the college authorities does anyone know?

tomar-re

Fundraiser in DCU nubar monday night seemingly. Beer pong and a slave auction, well it's a start I suppose but will it get the money in?
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vote-no-to-USI/149796581730344?ref=ts#!/event.php?eid=108309339234837

OrionsBelt

tomar-re wrote: »

Fundraiser in DCU nubar monday night seemingly. Beer pong and a slave auction, well it's a start I suppose but will it get the money in?
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vote-no-to-USI/149796581730344?ref=ts#!/event.php?eid=108309339234837

Isn't this against the rules? Campaigning can't start till Monday the 8th. It's like with the SU elections. Posters and campaign stuff can't go up or happen till campaigns week.

Russell_James

OrionsBelt wrote: »

Isn't this against the rules? Campaigning can't start till Monday the 8th. It's like with the SU elections. Posters and campaign stuff can't go up or happen till campaigns week.

Hi there, I'm the Returning Officer of the SU for this year, so I will just explain the situation regarding this.

Fundraising is essential to the campaign, and since it is an issue to be voted on rather than a personal campaign (in the SU for example), one person cannot be expected to fund it all on their own bat. If someone is passionate enough to run a campaign themselves, they need to get funding. They have a €320 budget, and want to get as much of that to hold a good campaign.

During SU campaigns, they do have fundraisers in various shapes and forms. They are generally kept out of public knowledge, just because of the nomination process. Such thing doesn't exist here, as campaigns simply need to register with €50 deposit. Some campaigns may not have €50 at the moment, others do.

Contact has been made between the organizer and myself regarding this and some conditions have been laid down in order to ensure it is not a "campaign rally" but a "campaign fundraiser". These include prohibiting use of campaign logos (as people will associate it with the upcoming campaign etc.) and it is not to be publicly portrayed as a campaign for or against the issue. It is to be essentially be a generic fundraiser for a referendum campaign. It is the only fair option at this time in order to allow a campaign get off the ground.

If anyone else on any side wishes to do similar, they all received my email announcing the referendum so they know my email address. If they wish to hold an event and want to clear it first, by all means get in contact with me, but if they don't inform me in advance, it may cause some issues during campaign for them. So far, the Facebook event as linked above, doesn't display it is an anti-USI event (with the exception of the avoidable "created by" group name being displayed). Once they stay within the guidelines agreed upon, there is no issue. Anyone wishing to know these guidelines are welcome to know them- they were agreed upon after the declaration, and are due to extraordinary circumstances. Fundraisers for referendums is not something that was brought to my attention in advance.

If any other campaigns are holding fundraisers, it would be an good o inform the Electoral Committee about it. But if they are raising money in their own alternative way, that is fair enough.

As I said, if anyone else on any side wants to do similar or has any questions/concerns, just email me. james.alford4[at]mail.dcu.ie is my address.

CollegeSpew

Russell_James wrote: »

Contact has been made between the organizer and myself regarding this and some conditions have been laid down in order to ensure it ... is not to be publicly portrayed as a campaign for or against the issue.

So, how would students know which 'side' they're giving their money to?

I know that someone who opposes the issue will not want to donate to the promoting side, and vice versa.

tomar-re

The fundraisers can just say that it's for a no campaign, limits on free speech and thought crime doesn't come under the unions remit.
I think it's a ball breaker though to have them go "Give us your money for you know what or you know who will win!".

Russell_James

tomar-re wrote: »

The fundraisers can just say that it's for a no campaign, limits on free speech and thought crime doesn't come under the unions remit.
I think it's a ball breaker though to have them go "Give us your money for you know what or you know who will win!".

Exactly. I have stated they are allowed be asked "What side are you on?" and they can say. But they have been requested not to canvass there; only redirect them to any website they have or ask them to wait till Campaigning Days. The organizers are in agreement with that and understand why.

I understand it is a bit of a pain to have to be so anonymous, but its the situation that has to arise. If they were to choose to hold the fundraiser on Monday of Campaigning they can do what they like (within the rules obv!), but since they have it arranged before hand (understandably- in order to cover costs), concessions must be made.

Wolfe Tone

Considering how the USI have cast aside those people who engaged in sit down protests today, they can go fcuk themselves.

Daysha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Considering how the USI have cast aside those people who engaged in sit down protests today, they can go fcuk themselves.

You do know a lot of those who kicked up the fuss at Merrion Row weren't students at all yeah? And even if they were, you really think condoning people for throwing their cans of Dutch Gold at the Gardai is the way to go for them?

Wolfe Tone

Daysha wrote: »

You do know a lot of those who kicked up the fuss at Merrion Row weren't students at all yeah? And even if they were, you really think condoning people for throwing their cans of Dutch Gold at the Gardai is the way to go for them?

Thats right, I forgot that it was solely scumbags doing the sit down protests.

What about the people who got their heads cracked?

Daysha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats right, I forgot that it was solely scumbags doing the sit down protests.

Edit: Actually, forget that. This thread is about next weeks USI referendum and nothing else. Take it to Protest Riots thread if you want to continue this further.

lithiumoxide

Daysha wrote: »

You do know a lot of those who kicked up the fuss at Merrion Row weren't students at all yeah? And even if they were, you really think condoning people for throwing their cans of Dutch Gold at the Gardai is the way to go for them?

For a person that's meant to be a mod, you could do with taking a less stereotype-enforcing attitude of students.

Your later post said "EDIT: Forget that...". Instead of leaving the previous post (i.e. this one) in public view, and actually not editing it at all, you could do what the rest of us do, and edit your post to suit the thread more effectively. Or, y'know, delete the offending comment.

Daysha

lithiumoxide wrote: »

For a person that's meant to be a mod, you could do with taking a less stereotype-enforcing attitude of students.

Your later post said "EDIT: Forget that...". Instead of leaving the previous post (i.e. this one) in public view, and actually not editing it at all, you could do what the rest of us do, and edit your post to suit the thread more effectively. Or, y'know, delete the offending comment.

Well actually if I left it up and then told him to switch to the other thread then I'd be accused of abusing mod-powers by not letting him respond

Anyway I'll say it again, I was led to believe that a lot of those getting in trouble weren't students at all, so how can I be stereotypical of students if I wasn't talking about students in the first place?

As for the 'edit' part I didn't take it off because it was offensive, I just realised this was all being discussed in the wrong thread after I posted it. There's nothing else to it

lithiumoxide

Daysha wrote: »

Well actually if I left it up and then told him to switch to the other thread then I'd be accused of abusing mod-powers by not letting him respond

I think if you asked him to move thread you'd be commended on mod-powers.

Daysha wrote: »

Anyway I'll say it again, I was led to believe that a lot of those getting in trouble weren't students at all, so how can I be stereotypical of students if I wasn't talking about students in the first place?

This is a USI referendum thread.

Daysha wrote: »

As for the 'edit' part I didn't take it off because it was offensive, I just realised this was all being discussed in the wrong thread after I posted it. There's nothing else to it

And that's fair enough

So, anyone voting 'yes' to the referendum?

Wolfe Tone

Solid gtfo from me.

Daysha

No from me too. Here's each campaigns websites btw:

YES to UNITY - YES to USI
Vote No to USI

Laydee

I wish this thread was a poll, I could see who was on each side without having to read the whole thing then.
I am voting no & from what I can tell from those I have spoken to, the first year nurses are not going to go out of their way to come in while on placement to vote.

Daysha

Now a poll I can do Will have to make it private but it'll be interesting none the less.

Landa2

USI..

http://free-education.info/a-letter-to-the-usi-president-from-a-graduate/

http://free-education.info/usi-disowns-members-ignores-garda-violence/

Green Hand Guy

Daysha wrote: »

No from me too. Here's each campaigns websites btw:

YES to UNITY - YES to USI
Vote No to USI

Are there any actual DCU people involved in the Yes campaign or is it just USI themselves?

robby^5

I wish I could vote in this, stupid INTRA.

What's the word around campus like, any side looking favourite to win? If what I have read online is any indication then the NO's will have it, hopefully.

Attol

I wonder if steve@yestounity is Steve Conlon?

He used to be the USI LGBT officer and is now the editor of the College View. I find it very difficult to take the CV's articles on the USI seriously due to this.

Diarmsquid

Attol wrote: »

I wonder if steve@yestounity is Steve Conlon?

He used to be the USI LGBT officer and is now the editor of the College View. I find it very difficult to take the CV's articles on the USI seriously due to this.

Yup. Same Steve.

Also the same Steve that raised the issue in the presidential debate last year, which I think was a major factor in Meg deciding to push a referendum.

Scary how much influence he has.

phantom_lord

Green Hand Guy wrote: »

Are there any actual DCU people involved in the Yes campaign or is it just USI themselves?

FG are actively pro USI.

Art_Wolf

Pitty no one interested in running for SU next year isnt using this as a spring board