DCU to rejoin USI, your thoughts?

tweak33

I've just found out that DCUSU invited Gary Redmond to DCUSU class rep training to unbiasedly give an opinion on the workings of USI. I don't know about the rest of you but in my opinion, that's pure bollocks.

The idea that one of the main and most influential people in the organisation would appear before an unaffiliated college to provide an unbiased opinion,which I can only assume was such as the one he presented at the USI debate last year, is completely unthinkable for me.

It should be uncomprehendable for any member of the current Union(as a whole not just the exec who obviously backed up this arrangement) to ever think re-affiliation would do any good for the college, in my opinion. The Union in Dcu works unlike any I've ever come across. It provides benificial and necessary campaigns that are suceessful to the students they are aimed at, events that are successfully profitably and enjoyble for the students attending them. It is a Union that works with out any unnecessary bullsh*it surrounding them by the members personal interests influencing the way in which the Union works. It is ran by the students of DCU and for the students of DCU without the question of party, political or national sh*ite.

Recently Brian MacCraith indicated that re-affiliation would be a good thing for the college, my personal view, one that has been mirrored by many members of this forum,in the past, is that reaffiliation would lead to politicalisation of the Union, something that I firmly believe would hugely be unbeneficial.

The point of this thread essentially is to see whether or not previous students who have been part of the Union who were members of USI, previous students who were or were not members of USI, new students who are not memeers of USI or students who were in a college previously who were members of USI think it would be beneifitial to rejoin them..... any thought?

Bluefox21

Why did they leave in the first place??

Garseys

Bluefox21 wrote: »

Why did they leave in the first place??

After the fiasco of the USIT collapse, DCU felt it was no longer beneficial to be a member of USI, we left in 2002 iirc.

trellheim

We were members back in 1987, it was bull then and its bull now. too many little fiefdoms and there is little that USI can do as an organization [ or could at the time anyway ]

phantom_lord

yeah i don't get what we'd get from joining.

Grudaire

Was their site hacked or what?

I personnally see no benefit from joining the USI, it's just a case of funding more SUhead types to get all uppity about stuff while eating through our money.

Tree

The SU is an ineffective body in its own right. Signing up to the USI means it's affiliated with an even more useless organisation and paying through the nose for pleasure of doing so. Better to stay out of USI and use the spare money to subsidise student life in a more worthwile manner.

badradio

I was at the Gary Redmond USI talk for rep training and at first I thought it could be beneficial to join, that they had our best interest in mind. However, when it came to question time (which lasted for about 2 hours, fml) most students had a negative view on their work, it seems to me that when the referdum goes through, more that likely we will not be affiliated with USI. But regardless of whether we are or not, they'll still be representing us and making choices for us, apparently. I think it would be no harm to join, especially with the grant situation and registration fees that are going to be introduced on the budget. 40 colleges are with USI, and our college, being college of the year could make a big difference. Besides...we can always leave USI if we dont like what theyre doing.

Tree

Nothing to stop SU's independantly organising protests. USI isnt the only organisation that SU's feed into, there are other forums.

monument

badradio wrote: »

But regardless of whether we are or not, they'll still be representing us and making choices for us, apparently.

Nobody of any real importance listens to them, not on the most important issues anyway.

badradio wrote: »

I think it would be no harm to join,

So, membership of the USI is now free? :eek: Or are you saying no harm bar wasting money?

badradio wrote: »

especially with the grant situation and registration fees that are going to be introduced on the budget.

(DCU members or not) how is the USI going to effect this?

badradio wrote: »

40 colleges are with USI, and our college, being college of the year could make a big difference.

How would it make a difference? What difference?

badradio wrote: »

Besides...we can always leave USI if we dont like what theyre doing.

DCU already did that because of the USI problems, the USI still has problems, nothing changed there, so why would DCU return?

Tree wrote: »

Nothing to stop SU's independantly organising protests. USI isnt the only organisation that SU's feed into, there are other forums.

Exactly, and there was nothing stopping DCU from joining any of the student protests in the last few years.

eagleye7

The problem I have with rejoining is the refusal of the USI to reform itself.
Theres a huge waste of resources in everything to do with the USI, from the huge joining fee to the overkill number of sabbatical offers they have.

It was remarked at the debate last year that the best thing to do is to join up and campaign for change in the organization. Imo I'm not going to pay someone to come in to their house and clean up. The reason we left from what I have heard is because the whole process was stagnating, and it was impossible for DCU and other parties to make any changes. from what i can see it hasnt changed much and I wouldnt be at all in favor of rejoining until they can show they have a better functioning union.

just my two cents

thusspakeblixa

My main problem is the money.

Yes, it costs less than a fiver to join the USI. But I have friends in NUI Maynooth (who rejoined last year), and there hasn't been a massive shift in their lives.

Being a USI member makes no difference 95% of the time.

That 4 euro (or 5) could be spent on joining a society. Which actually does make a difference.

Or, it could be spent on a breakfast roll.

That's tasty.

Tomar re

TBH we get all the USI perks without joining as it is, all we have lost is access to sabat training and pink training but we could just go in with other non-usi su's for training for sabats.
NUIM runs a non-usi pink training for LGBT that we could go to instead.

Dj Stiggie

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

My main problem is the money.

Yes, it costs less than a fiver to join the USI. But I have friends in NUI Maynooth (who rejoined last year), and there hasn't been a massive shift in their lives.

Being a USI member makes no difference 95% of the time.

That 4 euro (or 5) could be spent on joining a society. Which actually does make a difference.

Or, it could be spent on a breakfast roll.

That's tasty.

We were told tonight that realistically it'll be €5 for basic membership, plus €3 for other costs, if we ever want to do anything beyond being just a member, so it'll be €8.

Also, it was decided tonight by Union Council that there will be a referendum on it in the coming weeks

Grudaire

Dj Stiggie wrote: »

Also, it was decided tonight by Union Council that there will be a referendum on it in the coming weeks

Hurray - referendums. :rolleyes:

gizmo

Dj Stiggie wrote: »

We were told tonight that realistically it'll be €5 for basic membership, plus €3 for other costs, if we ever want to do anything beyond being just a member, so it'll be €8.

Also, it was decided tonight by Union Council that there will be a referendum on it in the coming weeks

So are the SU taking a side on this or do they have to remain impartial? If so, then I hope to hell we have some competent people leading the no vote.

tomar-re

gizmo wrote: »

So are the SU taking a side on this or do they have to remain impartial? If so, then I hope to hell we have some competent people leading the no vote.

The SU will be deciding if they shall have a stance at an emergency meeting next week. If the SU don't have a stance then USI will try and steamroll the campus into submission as they have a very large budget that DCU will refill next year.

Garseys

tomar-re wrote: »

The SU will be deciding if they shall have a stance at an emergency meeting next week. If the SU don't have a stance then USI will try and steamroll the campus into submission as they have a very large budget that DCU will refill next year.

Not exactly, I raised this issue at UC. If we vote to have a stance or no stance, this is still going to be an internally run referendum for the reasons you mentioned above.

But as some pointed out, that mightn't happen and we may have a repeat of what happened in st.pats last year.

thusspakeblixa

How much do referendums cost us?

Cid-Highwind

tomar-re wrote: »

The SU will be deciding if they shall have a stance at an emergency meeting next week. If the SU don't have a stance then USI will try and steamroll the campus into submission as they have a very large budget that DCU will refill next year.

The SU remaining impartial while allowing USI to campaign on campus is pretty much the worst possible combination in terms of allowing the campus to be 'streamrolled into submission' as I doubt anyone will have similar resources to put into a No campaign and the thing will quickly turn into a joke.

If the SU wants to take a side that's fine, the constitution allows for this and ensures that equal funding be allocated to those wishing to campaign against them.

If the issue is to be properly settled then there can't be any issues over USI buying the yes vote. The council can and should ask that USI respect that this is a matter for DCU students alone to campaign on. If they can't respect that then it doesn't sound like an organisation DCU should be joining.

Cid-Highwind

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

How much do referendums cost us?

Last referendum I was involved in probably cost a few hundred euro in terms of stationery, posters and lollipops etc. Since the electoral committee don't get paid they can be ran for almost nothing.

tomar-re

They cost 33 cent per person for the campaigns budget about 4 or 5k but that includes the money for the elections at the end of the year.

The union seem to be rushing this one to have it ready for the day of the big march, I don't see why we can't have a campaign of 5 weeks giving a long time to inform the student body.

Landa2

Timing of the referendum may be in question, Constitutionally they has to be a time period between when its announced and when it happens.. As of yet the date hasn't even been formally decided by Union Council so week 5 is looking like a non-runner..

I agree, for such a big decision we can have people going to polling stations to get their free lollipop, the electorate needs to be well informed on this one..

TheChrisD

Cliste wrote: »

Hurray - referendums. :rolleyes:

Oh dear. I can already sense Declan Traynor (or an equivalent) calling for many recounts :rolleyes:

myk

Dj Stiggie wrote: »

We were told tonight that realistically it'll be €5 for basic membership, plus €3 for other costs, if we ever want to do anything beyond being just a member, so it'll be €8.

Also, it was decided tonight by Union Council that there will be a referendum on it in the coming weeks

How are the costs of membership going to be paid? Will students be able to opt out of USI membership?

tomar-re

TheChrisD wrote: »

Oh dear. I can already sense Declan Traynor (or an equivalent) calling for many recounts :rolleyes:

Did he call for a recount at the last referendum?

Fiftysix

This was quick

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001701282181

Garseys

Cid-Highwind wrote: »

The council can and should ask that USI respect that this is a matter for DCU students alone to campaign on. If they can't respect that then it doesn't sound like an organisation DCU should be joining.

Qft

Imo USI dropped the ball constantly the last few years when they could have really ironed out issues with the govt.

Then again, having a body like USI lobbying DCU on certain issues could also be beneficial.

btw who has the largest vote at USI Council?

monument

Fiftysix wrote: »

This was quick

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001701282181

IF who ever set that up is watching could they set up a group page instead of a profile?

Garseys

monument wrote: »

IF who ever set that up is watching could they set up a group page instead of a profile?

Actually a page would be better, it shows up in the feeds etc...


I'm suprised how many graduates are adamant that DCU stay unaffiliated :pac:

myk

Garseys wrote: »

I'm suprised how many graduates are adamant that DCU stay unaffiliated :pac:

You mean the people who actually have experience of DCU being affiliated with USI?

Tree

And a number of those who object (/me raises hand) have been in other colleges that /have/ been affiliated and have not been affiliated, and can see no benefit whatsoever to joining. I found that CIT (who are not signed up to USI) gave far more benefit to students than UCC did (who are). The extra few bob can be more useful on campus than off.

phantom_lord

So this doesn't seem to be in the interest of the average DCU student at all.

So what's the SUs agenda for joing?

myk

phantom_lord wrote: »

So this doesn't seem to be in the interest of the average DCU student at all.

So what's the SUs agenda for joing?

I don't know if the SU exec is pushing to join. But they would get to lots of nice conferences in plush hotels with expenses paid for them, if DCU did re-affiliate. And it would open up a whole load of new paid sabbatical positions to DCU SU hacks.

gizmo

phantom_lord wrote: »

So this doesn't seem to be in the interest of the average DCU student at all.

Tell them it'll cost them more money and they'll care.

MonaghanPenguin

I thought it was bad value at 50,000 euro, now I'm told it's gone up to 80,000 which includes €3 per head for a conference (this is second hand information from a source at Union Council, if anyone knows better do feel free to correct me). Now, I don't know the exact figures but don't USI claim to have around 250,000 members, which would go up to 260,000 if DCU joined.

260,000 x €3 for a conference.

The mind boggles.

Dj Stiggie

MonaghanPenguin wrote: »

I thought it was bad value at 50,000 euro, now I'm told it's gone up to 80,000 which includes €3 per head for a conference (this is second hand information from a source at Union Council, if anyone knows better do feel free to correct me). Now, I don't know the exact figures but don't USI claim to have around 250,000 members, which would go up to 260,000 if DCU joined.

260,000 x €3 for a conference.

The mind boggles.

Sorry I should elaborate on that. The €3 is not for a conference, it is to cover the cost of travel and training for things such as Class Rep training and Pink Training for LGBT. I'm sure more information on the breakdown will be provided in the coming days.


With regards to someone else asking how it will be paid, it will be added on to your registration fee, but the first year is free. But we only get 6 votes as opposed to the 16 we'll get when we pay.

And no, students cannot individually opt out of joining

EDIT: Penguin, if you're referring to my original post with regards to costs, I never mentioned a conference, you're the only onw who said anything about it

myk

Dj Stiggie wrote: »

Sorry I should elaborate on that. The €3 is not for a conference, it is to cover the cost of travel and training for things such as Class Rep training and Pink Training for LGBT. I'm sure more information on the breakdown will be provided in the coming days.

But hasn't pink training and class rep training been going on already out of the existing DCUSU budget? Why the extra cost?

Dj Stiggie wrote: »

With regards to someone else asking how it will be paid, it will be added on to your registration fee,

Has this been agreed with the college? Has the wording of the constitutional amendment been drawn up?

Fiftysix

It is still €80,000 for a pointless organisation. USI are riddled with problems. There are far too many sabbats that are on a full time basis.

What are these area officers for? This is a question that i have asked USI many times and have never been able to give me a concrete answer.

The welfare officers job is covered repeatedly on the officer board, with the LGBT and equality officers. Last year when they tried to remove the LGBT officer from the board the LGBT crowd went mad, understandably they are looking out for themselves. But in saying that, the removal of the LGBT officer was in the long run for the greater good as i believe it was being done to make room for more longterm staff members( which would have been good because the turnover of officers every year is ridiculous).

But the narrow minded special interest groups, like the LGBT groups are the ones that dictate USI and unfortunately they do it for their own beliefs not for the great good of the student body.

Also just to point out that the type of people DCUSU will be dealing with:

Last year St Pat's pulled out ( well done to them) . The USI campaign to keep them in was a personal attack on the current President, who's name slips my mind right now. Saying that he personally wasted the students money. Bla bla bla. Anyway the point im making is that St Pats really only give USI like €10,000 a year. USI had a bad campaign to keep them in and looked like they didn't care. Which is odd for a group that stands for all students. It also leads me to believe that they don't care about whether or not DCU is in it, it's whether or not they have the €80,000 from DCU.

Last year the now current deputy preisdent, told DCU if they wanted to change it, join. That is bollocks. USI is a failure of an organisation, who have repeatedly failed at doing their Job.

Their national representation is terrible. The president sits with the HEA, but do the listen to him? Well unless he said the thing to do is get a 9% reduction in head count in the colleges to combat the lack of fees, i don't think they are. The government can put up the student service charge as much as they want contrary to what USI tell you.

DCUSU rejoining in a complete waste of money. Money that is usually spent on the stuff THAT THEY ALREADY GOT WITHOUT USI.

MonaghanPenguin

Dj Stiggie wrote: »

Sorry I should elaborate on that. The €3 is not for a conference, it is to cover the cost of travel and training for things such as Class Rep training and Pink Training for LGBT. I'm sure more information on the breakdown will be provided in the coming days.


With regards to someone else asking how it will be paid, it will be added on to your registration fee, but the first year is free. But we only get 6 votes as opposed to the 16 we'll get when we pay.

And no, students cannot individually opt out of joining

EDIT: Penguin, if you're referring to my original post with regards to costs, I never mentioned a conference, you're the only onw who said anything about it

Take a look at my original post and you'll see where I said I heard it from. €3 per student for class rep training and travel isn't even worth it. That's €30,000 from DCU for those things. Anyone who asks whether USI is worth it should consider that figure for a moment.

Give me that budget alone and I could organise class rep training for the entire country for a number of years. I speak having organised/helping to organise DCU Class Rep training a number of times.

MightyMighty737

Forget USI, the main priority of the SU should be getting FIFA11 in the xbox room!



Also, what in the name of god is pink training!?

irish_boy90

MightyMighty737 wrote: »

Forget USI, the main priority of the SU should be getting FIFA11 in the xbox room!



Also, what in the name of god is pink training!?

you could just bring it in yourself

supine

while i respect the right of dcu students to vote on this, hopefully a resounding no vote will put this issue to bed until USI reforms

I didn't even know they existed until 3 and a half years in DCU and since then i haven't heard a convincing argument to join them. In their current form, anything they could possibly do for us, we can do more efficiantly and cheaper ourselves here if we are not already doing so.

Put it this way, if USI went on Dragon's Den where the dragons were successful DCU Aliumni and had to justify being invested in, I suspect the response would be a resounding "I'm out!"

Green Hand Guy

phantom_lord wrote: »

So this doesn't seem to be in the interest of the average DCU student at all.

So what's the SUs agenda for joing?

Far as I can see, last year the College View seemed to become USI propoganda soc and forced the question onto the agenda.

supine

Green Hand Guy wrote: »

Far as I can see, last year the College View seemed to become USI propoganda soc and forced the question onto the agenda.

well they need some content...those spelling mistakes aren't going to make themselves

Winters

Join the USI? What a stupid idea. Another organisation with no real ability to make a decision or difference to any student. Great way to waste good money that could be spent on drink.

DCU SU would be better off ignoring the USI and getting on with solving their own problems. There was good reasons for the SU to leave it when we did and nothing has changed to make the USI in anyway beneficial to DCU Students.

monument

Is there anybody reading this thread who is willing to defend joining USI?

Garseys

monument wrote: »

Is there anybody reading this thread who is willing to defend joining USI?

If they were, they wouldnt say everyone who's posted so far is pretty much Anti-USI.:pac:

Considering 3 ex-SU sabats(who as myk pointed out earlier have already dealt with them) have already posted here aswell;)

Sephiroth_vg

i dont even understand what we will gain from it

MonaghanPenguin

monument wrote: »

Is there anybody reading this thread who is willing to defend joining USI?

I'd defend the idea behind USI any day. I've always believed in a strong, well organised national union for students. Unfortunately it's a few key words in that sentence that makes me reject the reality of what USI has become. A pale insignificant joke of itself.

college1988

St. Pat's wiped the floor against USI. Over 1,200 people voted and 96% of those voted to disaffiliate. The point of the matter is that they had an excellent campaign plastered around the college in comparison to the moronic campaign run by the heads of USI which attacked the pres and completely backfired. The reason why Maynooth fell back into U.S.I. was because the no campaign was poorly organized and the nuimSU remained unbiased, thus USI had no one to campaign against. To summaries there needs to be a competent anti USI campaign similar to st. pat's and also su cannot be unbiased on this matter!!!