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A Conspiracy I believe in, and it is happening right now!

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    #32
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    sligopark wrote: »
    just like your made up figures - the fact is fishing rights as per sovereinty was given away - FOREVER - not heard of all the other countries raping our fishing waters including Iceland?

    I have, the official figures are here. You'll get unofficial figures but sure we have ships raping African waters, never mind the small problem of over fishing:

    Real 2000 value (US$) by fishing country in the waters of Ireland
    sligopark wrote:
    like everyone else I have noticed the depletion of small farmholds as happened in Germany when I lived there - and the creation of 'factory Ireland'

    why haven't you?

    It has happened in New Zealand too, often held up as the example for everybody else to follow as regards Agriculture.

    As regards the EU and the general thread point, unless we adopt some type of DeVelera isolationism or Utopia, I don't see the plan B. That doesn't mean I don't agree with the general point of the OP, moreso, how do we get out of it?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #33
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    sligopark wrote: »
    That’s all we need - EU taxes too
    ...
    But hey that’s coming too folks …

    Do you think the EU manages to run without funding? How does that work...the elite pay for it out of their spare change, and no-one notices?

    You already pay taxes to the EU...they're just not labelled as such.

    The Swiss system defines a clear seperation, so you know how much you're paying to your townland, how much to your canton and how much to your state.

    The Irish person, on the other hand, has a rough idea of hte total, and no idea of hte breakdown to county, state or EU.


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    #34
    joebucks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 728 ✭✭✭joebucks


    meglome wrote: »


    I seem to recall voting on it and voting exactly as I wanted, a bit confused as to where the forcing came in. With the expansion of the EU reform was needed and the Lisbon treaty brought that in.

    What do you make of Pat Cox's quote re: Corporation Tax in the Sunday times, p13, yesterday?


    "It would be a grave error of judgement by the EU, its servants or member states, however powerful or influential they may be, to seek to force Ireland's hand on coprorate taxation.... solemn guarantees must count for something,

    If not, the very legitimacy of the EU itself would be called into question....The consent of the governed in Ireland for the Lisbon treaty was informed by the guarantees, including the tax guarantee. Its nullification without their consent would be an act of duplicity unworthy of any law abiding and self respecting institution".


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    #35
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    sligopark wrote: »
    just like your made up figures - the fact is fishing rights as per sovereinty was given away - FOREVER - not heard of all the other countries raping our fishing waters including Iceland?

    You do see the difference between what you say and the reality from the figures, right?
    We had to give other countries access to our fishing to join the EU to however we have been given €40 billion more than the fish we gave in return. I dunno seems like an amazing deal we got. The EU even paid for most of our fisheries protection vessels.
    sligopark wrote: »
    like everyone else I have noticed the depletion of small farmholds as happened in Germany when I lived there - and the creation of 'factory Ireland'

    Maybe you can explain how the EU is responsible for that exactly?
    sligopark wrote: »
    where have you seen that cos its low on the ground where my business is?

    Maybe 'we' should not have kept voting for a bunch of useless tools into our parliament in our elections. The EU had warned us about how we were running things but we ignored it.
    sligopark wrote: »
    and so never read it...

    Em I just said that I read a lot of it. Some confusion?
    sligopark wrote: »
    pity you like many others believed the liars - where are the jobs Bud?

    Give me a break

    Get a column in a daily paper and get some sort of eu sponsorship ala peter sutherland - the vast majority of people realise they were sold a pup with the lisbon traitorship deal ... stop it please

    Back to the OP

    Maybe you can tell me how the Lisbon treaty hurt us exactly cause I'm a little confused. What i see is we voted for people that almost bankrupted the country, nothing whatsoever to do with the EU. The EU warned us not to do some of the things we did but we didn't care, we were rich and we didn't need to listen to the EU any more.
    joebucks wrote: »
    What do you make of Pat Cox's quote re: Corporation Tax in the Sunday times, p13, yesterday?
    "It would be a grave error of judgement by the EU, its servants or member states, however powerful or influential they may be, to seek to force Ireland's hand on coprorate taxation.... solemn guarantees must count for something,

    If not, the very legitimacy of the EU itself would be called into question....The consent of the governed in Ireland for the Lisbon treaty was informed by the guarantees, including the tax guarantee. Its nullification without their consent would be an act of duplicity unworthy of any law abiding and self respecting institution".

    The EU cannot actually make us change our corporation tax rate. They obviously can strongly encourage us to do it but I don't actually see that happening. We will have to take some medicine, even if it's just some lectures, because of our own actions.


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    #36
    digme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    meglome wrote: »
    Maybe 'we' should not have kept voting for a bunch of useless tools into our parliament in our elections. The EU had warned us about how we were running things but we ignored it.


    are you even irish?


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    #37
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    digme wrote: »
    are you even irish?

    I am indeed. The 'we' is the fact that I didn't vote FF but obviously a lot of other Irish people did.


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    #38
    digme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    But you voted for lisbon though,i don't get you,you don't even know what Leinster house looks like.


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    #39
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    digme wrote: »
    But you voted for lisbon though,i don't get you,you don't even know what Leinster house looks like.

    Yes I voted for Lisbon as it was in the best interests of this country and the EU. I spent weeks checking it out and checking the actual treaty for the things people said were wrong with it. I was very happy to vote yes.

    I know exactly what Leinster House looks like. The guy in the video you posted here doesn't though. He has a picture of Government Buildings which has nothing to do with the point he tries to make.

    Government Buildings

    Leinster House


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    #40
    digme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    meglome wrote: »
    Yes I voted for Lisbon as it was in the best interests of this country and the EU. I spent weeks checking it out and checking the actual treaty for the things people said were wrong with it. I was very happy to vote yes.

    I know exactly what Leinster House looks like. The guy in the video you posted here doesn't though. He has a picture of Government Buildings which has nothing to do with the point he tries to make.

    Government Buildings

    Leinster House



    130606.jpg

    ?



    .


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    #41
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    digme wrote: »
    ...snip...

    The small picture is Leinster house but the map appears to point to the Natural History Museum. Leinster house is the building to the top left corner of the white text box on the map.


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    #42
    The Recliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭The Recliner


    Lads can ye take it to PM, it isn't really relevant to this thread


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    #43
    digme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    meglome wrote: »
    The small picture is Leinster house but the map appears to point to the Natural History Museum. Leinster house is the building to the top left corner of the white text box on the map.
    You hadn't a clue.


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    #44
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    meglome wrote: »
    The EU cannot actually make us change our corporation tax rate. They obviously can strongly encourage us to do it but I don't actually see that happening.

    funny thats exactly what they are doing....

    meglome wrote: »
    because of our own actions.

    our own actions? The actions of a political elite, banksters having access to a cheap currency and developers advantaging both.

    I had nothing to do with it.


    meglome wrote: »
    Yes I voted for Lisbon as it was in the best interests of this country and the EU. I spent weeks checking it out and checking the actual treaty for the things people said were wrong with it. I was very happy to vote yes.

    turns out you were wrong and those explaining its problems were right as regards loss of financial sovereignty


    joebucks wrote: »
    What do you make of Pat Cox's quote re: Corporation Tax in the Sunday times, p13, yesterday?

    Pat Cox - another traitor well paid by the EU feathering his nest



    And so back to the OP - who is in charge and pulling the traitor lenihan's strings?


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    #45
    Rabble Rabble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭Rabble Rabble


    fontanalis wrote: »
    Of course, the EU made Ireland be obsessed with property and borrowing. What value do you think the punt would have if Ireland left?

    Actually the negative interest ECB rates did in fact caused borrowing, and who says a currency devaluation is not a good thing?


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    #46
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    Rabble Rabble wrote: »
    who says a currency devaluation is not a good thing?

    No one I have heard myself but would the traitors in dail eireann have the balls to return to the punt?

    Shock Horror - how would sutherland and cox react?


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    #47
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    sligopark wrote: »
    funny thats exactly what they are doing....

    I think you'll find one German minister says we should. But there is no way for them to make us do it. You may remember those guarantees we got on the Lisbon treaty... in writing.
    sligopark wrote: »
    our own actions? The actions of a political elite, banksters having access to a cheap currency and developers advantaging both.

    So who exactly voted for this 'political elite'? I'll think you'll find it was the Irish people. They don't have power unless we give it to them. Maybe we should try something different next time.
    sligopark wrote: »
    I had nothing to do with it.

    I assume then you always use your vote wisely?
    sligopark wrote: »
    turns out you were wrong and those explaining its problems were right as regards loss of financial sovereignty

    Without the Euro we'd be bankrupt. And as I keep saying the Germans or anyone else cannot make us change our corporation tax rates. The world's financial systems are truly global so the idea that any nation has true financial sovereignty is nonsense, certainly in the sense I think you mean it. Do you honestly think our small nation ever had it to begin with?
    sligopark wrote: »
    And so back to the OP - who is in charge and pulling the traitor lenihan's strings?

    I dunno but I'll be campaigning heavily to make sure none of these Fianna Fools ever get elected again. It does stink though.
    sligopark wrote: »
    No one I have heard myself but would the traitors in dail eireann have the balls to return to the punt?

    Shock Horror - how would sutherland and cox react?

    I don't know what rose coloured specs you're looking through but currency's are traded on International markets. Since those same international markets think we're fukked the punt would currently be being used as toilet paper.


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    #48
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    meglome wrote: »
    I think you'll find one German minister says we should. But there is no way for them to make us do it. You may remember those guarantees we got on the Lisbon treaty... in writing.

    and not worth the paper they are supposedly written on. The legality stands on the treaty not some after thought add on. BTW has anyone actually since this piece of paper?


    meglome wrote: »
    So who exactly voted for this 'political elite'? I'll think you'll find it was the Irish people. They don't have power unless we give it to them. Maybe we should try something different next time.

    would have to agree but who - FG elitists? Labour Monkeys? Yellow monkeys or Sinn Fein?

    What about Ganley - at least he told it as it was?

    But then what of those not fitting in with his religious fervour?


    meglome wrote: »
    I assume then you always use your vote wisely?

    I do.




    meglome wrote: »
    Without the Euro we'd be bankrupt.

    without the euro we wouldn't be in this mess



    meglome wrote: »
    And as I keep saying the Germans or anyone else cannot make us change our corporation tax rates.

    They will try and you know it, and you know what - the traitor lenihan may actually give in for an ECB bailout and this too you might well realise too.


    meglome wrote: »
    The world's financial systems are truly global so the idea that any nation has true financial sovereignty is nonsense, certainly in the sense I think you mean it.

    Nordic countries, the brits and the swiss have - why not us?

    meglome wrote: »
    I dunno but I'll be campaigning heavily to make sure none of these Fianna Fools ever get elected again. It does stink though.

    agreed on both counts


    meglome wrote: »
    I don't know what rose coloured specs you're looking through but currency's are traded on International markets. Since those same international markets think we're fukked the punt would currently be being used as toilet paper.

    not if properly devalued to encourage growth and subordinated debt left as the gamble loss it is.

    Haven't seen Paddy Power paying out often on losing bets .... But then Paddy is no self sabotaging idiot or company traitor

    Again anyone - any thoughts on who is pulling the traitor Lenihan and his traitor gang's strings and why?


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    #49
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Rabble Rabble wrote: »
    Actually the negative interest ECB rates did in fact caused borrowing, and who says a currency devaluation is not a good thing?

    Plenty say it.

    Ireland, Greece and leaving the euro

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #50
    Rabble Rabble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,367 ✭✭✭Rabble Rabble


    K-9 wrote: »
    Plenty say it.

    Ireland, Greece and leaving the euro

    Plenty is one. Leaving the euro would be a diaster now but we should never have joined. I am not anti-Eu just anti-Euro.


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    #51
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    yekahs wrote: »
    Elite are selling our sovereignty to protect Anglo & Irish Nationwide bondholders

    This is an article by David McWilliams about a conspiracy that is happening right now about how our government is handing over our sovereignty to the mega rich elite. Please read it. I fully agree with all he has written in this article. The thing that sickens me most is, I don't even know what to do about it! :mad:

    If you read that last year would you have believed it?


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    #52
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    profitius wrote: »
    If you read that last year would you have believed it?

    Probably would have believed it, but thought it was exaggerated for effect.

    This time last year I was in the thick of it, reading papers and writing essays in college about it. However it was very detached and analytical, and for some reason it didn't 'click' with me like it has in the last 4-6 months.

    Tbh, now nothing surprises me about the actions of our government. I suppose back then I chalked a lot of it down to ineptitude. Now I think its more a case of willful disregard for the taxpayer.


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    #53
    joebucks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 728 ✭✭✭joebucks


    Just came across this site here..some old and new articles from a range of papers like Examiner, Indo and letters to editor in IT on it that a few of ye might be interested in

    http://www.soldiersofdestiny.org/robthepoor.htm

    The level of corruption in Fianna Fail really is staggering. But again the question must be asked, are they just puppets for a more sinister cabal? Bilderberg?

    Also interesting to see Sutherland involved in this

    http://www.soldiersofdestiny.org/thestardustcoverup.htm
    So why was nobody prosecuted? Why was the only charge from the disaster against John Keegan, who lost two daughters in the Stardust, for assault on Butterly, in his understandably frustrated state? (With Nial McCarthy {a future Supreme Court judge} and Peter Sutherland {the future Attorney General] at his (Butterlys) side for the Tribunal, what chance did any of the families have in achieving justice.? Besides they were all from a working class area in North Dublin-albeit one nurtured and generously endowed with pork barrel politics largesse (Beaumont Hospital) from Berts old mentor C.J.H..
    "We were all Fianna Failers" Butterly said in his memoirs.


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    #54
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    joebucks wrote: »
    Just came across this site here..some old and new articles from a range of papers like Examiner, Indo and letters to editor in IT on it that a few of ye might be interested in

    http://www.soldiersofdestiny.org/robthepoor.htm

    The level of corruption in Fianna Fail really is staggering. But again the question must be asked, are they just puppets for a more sinister cabal? Bilderberg?

    Also interesting to see Sutherland involved in this

    http://www.soldiersofdestiny.org/thestardustcoverup.htm

    Sutherland would be a known FG'er, common knowledge, FG appointed AG and Euro Commissioner.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #55
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    I believe EU has been letting us borrow so we do lose the power over our own Decisions and soon Irish people will have no right in anything that happens here.
    Country is been raped for the benefits of others countries.A legal sneaky take over.


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    #56
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    K-9 wrote: »
    Plenty say it.

    Ireland, Greece and leaving the euro

    Oh one can only pray,EU is falling apart at sems :D

    Just finished reading that,that is disgusting,How the hell did our government allow for us to be so dependent on other countries for money.Bunch of sell outs.


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    #57
    joebucks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 728 ✭✭✭joebucks


    K-9 wrote: »
    Sutherland would be a known FG'er, common knowledge, FG appointed AG and Euro Commissioner.

    Yes one of Garret Fitzgerald's proteges. Fitzgerald another Bilderberger. What I am wondering is, Is political party irrelevant as the Bilderberg group control whoever is in charge?

    Does anyone here have much knowledge of the occult festivals? Stardust happened on Feb 14. That is a day of significance to the 'Illuminati' right?


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    #58
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    caseyann wrote: »
    I believe EU has been letting us borrow so we do lose the power over our own Decisions and soon Irish people will have no right in anything that happens here.
    Country is been raped for the benefits of others countries.A legal sneaky take over.
    In fairness, it's the Irish who f*cked up Ireland. If it wasn't for Europe we'd have been sold off by our politicians years ago. It would be in the EU's best interests to just kick Ireland out and save themselves a hell of a lot more trouble.


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    #59
    profitius
    Registered Users Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    humanji wrote: »
    In fairness, it's the Irish who f*cked up Ireland. If it wasn't for Europe we'd have been sold off by our politicians years ago. It would be in the EU's best interests to just kick Ireland out and save themselves a hell of a lot more trouble.

    They did sell off the country years ago.. to the EU! Remember the EU was originally set up for economic reasons so it'd boost trade between countries but the sneaky plan was to create more and more laws and take over that way. I believe one of the founding members of the EU boasted about it.


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    #60
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    humanji wrote: »
    In fairness, it's the Irish who f*cked up Ireland. If it wasn't for Europe we'd have been sold off by our politicians years ago. It would be in the EU's best interests to just kick Ireland out and save themselves a hell of a lot more trouble.

    Not if they own everything,and what interest does Ireland pay back(is there one)
    Ofc they would EU wants a one world government and EU is beginning of this.
    But the normal people think they benefit from it but they now owe for how many generations,due to the fact EU didnt say no sort out your rubbish and we aren't giving you anymore.Because it suits them to gain control of all finances in this country and spending decisions.


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    #61
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    profitius wrote: »
    They did sell off the country years ago.. to the EU! Remember the EU was originally set up for economic reasons so it'd boost trade between countries but the sneaky plan was to create more and more laws and take over that way. I believe one of the founding members of the EU boasted about it.
    Rubbish. If that was true then why can we leave at any time we wish? You are right though, there are certain monetary benefits to joining the EU and we took advantage of them to an incredible extent.
    caseyann wrote: »
    Not if they own everything,and what interest does Ireland pay back(is there one)
    Ofc they would EU wants a one world government and EU is beginning of this.
    But the normal people think they benefit from it but they now owe for how many generations,due to the fact EU didnt say no sort out your rubbish and we aren't giving you anymore.Because it suits them to gain control of all finances in this country and spending decisions.
    More rubbish, how is the EU the beginning of a "one world government" when it doesn't include three of the most important nations in the world - USA, Russia and China? The UN would be the closest thing to that and even they have proven to be massively ineffectual to the point that considering them as the big bad NWO is simply laughable.

    And on a final note, the EU won't be controlling our finances, if anything it'll be the IMF.


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