Why do bodybuilders dehydrate themselves before contests?

gonedrinking

Would they not lose muscle mass doing this?

ray jay

technically yes but it makes them look more ripped

john_cappa

gonedrinking wrote: »

Would they not lose muscle mass doing this?

No they would not lose any measurable amount.

All they are doing is losing water to tighten the skin onto the muscle for definition.

SanoVitae

I used to be crazy about bodybuilding 20 years ago. As a very impressionable teen, I used to get Flex every month, as well as other mags.

As it happens, Andreas Munzer was on the cover of the first bodybuilding mag I ever bought.

Like many I got into bodybuilding through watching Arnold Schwarzenegger in his 80's pomp and wondering how the hell he got so big. However I was much more into the bodybuilders of his era (1970-1975 basically) and not the modern guys (from the 90s onwards).

The guys nowadays are often 6 or more inches shorter than Arnold was yet weigh 40 pounds heavier whilst being ripped to shreds! :eek:

Many will disagree but I think the bodybuilders from Arnold's era and before (e.g. Steve Reeves) look WAY better than the modern guys.

Also, the danger they put their bodies through to look the way they do is literally crazy.

This article sums it up very well ->

http://apse.dallasnews.com/news/2005/030805epstein.html

Inspector Coptoor

Dehydration + fake tan + red wine = improved definition and vascularity

Remmy

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

Dehydration + fake tan + red wine = improved definition and vascularity

fish and rice cakes are good too.

Hanley

ray jay wrote: »

technically yes but it makes them look more ripped

Explain...

How much muscle loss are we talking from a water cut?

Khannie

Hanley wrote: »

Explain...

How much muscle loss are we talking from a water cut?

It's more muscle volume than actual muscle fibre. Having done the usual dehydration jazz for a weigh in I can tell you that the visual difference is flippin' enormous (though you do look more ripped).

Hanley

Khannie wrote: »

It's more muscle volume than actual muscle fibre. Having done the usual dehydration jazz for a weigh in I can tell you that the visual difference is flippin' enormous (though you do look more ripped).

Oh I know!! I've been there too. I'm just tryna figure out if he means actually means muscle, or just the appearance of muscle...

iii Stevo iii

SanoVitae wrote: »

This article sums it up very well ->

http://apse.dallasnews.com/news/2005/030805epstein.html

If that had some pictures it would be more appealing to read.
Id imagine around 2500 words with not one picture.........

Anyway I always thought it was to improve vascularity.

SanoVitae

If that had some pictures it would surely be more appallling to read - pictures of Andreas Munzer's autopsy can be easily found online.

gonedrinking

from that article it seems that dehydration is much more dangerous to bodybuilders than taking steriods

SanoVitae

gonedrinking wrote: »

from that article it seems that dehydration is much more dangerous to bodybuilders than taking steriods

Definitely in terms of the short-term health risks IMO. While I've read a lot of horror stories about the immediate, negative side-effects of steroids (horrible acne, roid rage, impotence), the life-threatening ones (e.g. heart problems) seem to affect bodybuilders most after they retire from bodybuilding, rather than when they are competing.

One example is Mike Matarazzo who underwent triple-bypass heart surgery at the age of just 38 (http://www.athletesagainststeroids.org/pgs/Matarazzo.php).

He was a fan-favourite back when I followed bodybuilding in the 1990s- known for his outrageous biceps and calves. Now its very possible that anyone on this forum could lift more weight than him.

john_cappa

A friend of mine had a bypass at 42.

Never took any steroids

Funny that.

Isolated incidents directly attributed to bb/steroid use with little or no proof.

The fact is that bb lifestyle is far healthier option than the route most (not all before some one pedabtic pulls me up on it claiming to follow a healthy life style with out bb/steroids) people follow of fast food, drink, smoking, drugs, no exercise etc.

SanoVitae

john_cappa wrote: »

A friend of mine had a bypass at 42.

Never took any steroids

Funny that.

Isolated incidents directly attributed to bb/steroid use with little or no proof.

A friend of mine had road rage at 42.
Never took steroids.
Funny that

Roid rage must not actually exist then - isolated incidents directly attributed to bb/steroid use with little or no proof etc etc....

brianthebard

SanoVitae wrote: »

A friend of mine had road rage at 42.
Never took steroids.
Funny that

Roid rage must not actually exist then - isolated incidents directly attributed to bb/steroid use with little or no proof etc etc....

are you serious? Do you think there's been scientific studies on 'roid rage'? I bet you think that's the technical term and everything. Most of the myths about steroid use are just that.

SanoVitae

john_cappa wrote: »

The fact is that bb lifestyle is far healthier option than the route most (not all before some one pedabtic pulls me up on it claiming to follow a healthy life style with out bb/steroids) people follow of fast food, drink, smoking, drugs, no exercise etc.

I would agree with this if you were talking about bodybuilding in Arnold's day (circa 1970-1975). The emphasis then was more on size and symmetry (the classic Herculean look) rather than the insane conditioning that is required to today to even stand a chance of getting a pro card, let alone place well in a competition.

If you are talking about the current bodybuilding lifestyle in terms of getting shredded for a pro competition like Mr Olympia, I'd actually take my chances with fast food, drink, smoking, drugs, no exercise if given the choice!

Here is what is claimed to be Andreas Munzer's intake of drugs pre-competition.

10-9 Weeks before the Competition daily: Ephederine, AN 1, Captagon, Aspirine, Valium, Clenbuterol

10-6 weeks before the Competition daily: 2 injects Testoviron a 250 mg
1 inject Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
30 tabletts Metandienon (Dianabol from Thailand)
20 IE* STH (GH)
20 IE* Insuline

5-3 weeks before the Competition daily: 3 injects Masteron
2 injects Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
50 tabletts Stromba
2 injects Stromba
24 IE* STH

insuline

2-1 weeks before the Competition daily: 2 injects Masteron
2 injects Stromba
40 tabletts Halotestin
80 tabletts Stromba
24 IE* STH
Insuline
IGF

A few days before the Competition: Aldactone, Lasix

:eek:

SanoVitae

brianthebard wrote: »

are you serious? Do you think there's been scientific studies on 'roid rage'? I bet you think that's the technical term and everything. Most of the myths about steroid use are just that.

There have been many studies on it actually. One example is the study carried out by Bjorkqvist, Nygren, Bjorklund, and Bjorkqvist in 1994.

Well worth reading and yes scientific studies like it actually exist

The Davestator

If you havent watched bigger stronger faster before, it's a must see.

Dispels all the so called side affects in a very enjoyable 90 min documentary!

brianthebard

SanoVitae wrote: »

There have been many studies on it actually. One example is the study carried out by Bjorkqvist, Nygren, Bjorklund, and Bjorkqvist in 1994.

Well worth reading and yes scientific studies like it actually exist

Bjorkqvist, Nygren, Bjorklund, and Bjorkqvist (1994) randomly assigned twenty-seven male participants to receive no-treatment control, placebo, or 40 mg/day orally administered testosterone (Panteston) over a seven day period. Both self-reported and observer-rated mood showed no effect of drug treatment. In fact, the only reliable differences reported, for self-reported anger, irritation, frustration, and impulsivity and for observer ratings of frustration, indicated that the placebo group scored higher than the no-treatment or testosterone treated groups. While, as in earlier studies, the low dose level certainly impacts the applicability of these results to real world AAS use, it is clear that anticipation and expectation played a part in participants’ observer rated behavior and self-report. However, as these authors point out "What is surprising and calls for an explanation, is the absence of a placebo effect in the group receiving testosterone (p. 24)."

Source;http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/darkes/anabolic-steroids-and-aggression-01.htm

So the placebo group was more aggressive than the one on steroids, you claim to know about this study but you still persist with the notion of roid rage even though it disproves or substantially damages the roid rage 'argument'?

john_cappa

...

john_cappa

brianthebard wrote: »

Source;http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/darkes/anabolic-steroids-and-aggression-01.htm

So the placebo group was more aggressive than the one on steroids, you claim to know about this study but you still persist with the notion of roid rage even though it disproves or substantially damages the roid rage 'argument'?

I would happily bear your child after that!!!!! Brilliant!


From the link
"Bjorkqvist, Nygren, Bjorklund, and Bjorkqvist (1994) randomly assigned twenty-seven male participants to receive no-treatment control, placebo, or 40 mg/day orally administered testosterone (Panteston) over a seven day period. Both self-reported and observer-rated mood showed no effect of drug treatment. In fact, the only reliable differences reported, for self-reported anger, irritation, frustration, and impulsivity and for observer ratings of frustration, indicated that the placebo group scored higher than the no-treatment or testosterone treated groups. "

brianthebard

*gets the lube*

john_cappa

SanoVitae wrote: »

I would agree with this if you were talking about bodybuilding in Arnold's day (circa 1970-1975). The emphasis then was more on size and symmetry (the classic Herculean look) rather than the insane conditioning that is required to today to even stand a chance of getting a pro card, let alone place well in a competition.

:eek:

Given that they used to take dianabol for breakfast lol. No PCT! Infact really just stayed on cycle all the time from reports?

SanoVitae wrote: »

Here is what is claimed to be Andreas Munzer's intake of drugs pre-competition.

10-9 Weeks before the Competition daily: Ephederine, AN 1, Captagon, Aspirine, Valium, Clenbuterol

10-6 weeks before the Competition daily: 2 injects Testoviron a 250 mg
1 inject Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
30 tabletts Metandienon (Dianabol from Thailand)
20 IE* STH (GH)
20 IE* Insuline

5-3 weeks before the Competition daily: 3 injects Masteron
2 injects Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
50 tabletts Stromba
2 injects Stromba
24 IE* STH

insuline

2-1 weeks before the Competition daily: 2 injects Masteron
2 injects Stromba
40 tabletts Halotestin
80 tabletts Stromba
24 IE* STH
Insuline
IGF

A few days before the Competition: Aldactone, Lasix

I wont comment on his alleged cycle as I dont have the knowledge to do so. Looks like bull**** though with stuff like "from thailand" thrown into it lol

Anything to excess is going to damage your health really. Anything.

Its all about knowledge and responsible use.

Just to add I am not an AAS user currently or in the past.

Hanley

SanoVitae wrote: »

I would agree with this if you were talking about bodybuilding in Arnold's day (circa 1970-1975). The emphasis then was more on size and symmetry (the classic Herculean look) rather than the insane conditioning that is required to today to even stand a chance of getting a pro card, let alone place well in a competition.

If you are talking about the current bodybuilding lifestyle in terms of getting shredded for a pro competition like Mr Olympia, I'd actually take my chances with fast food, drink, smoking, drugs, no exercise if given the choice!

Here is what is claimed to be Andreas Munzer's intake of drugs pre-competition.

10-9 Weeks before the Competition daily: Ephederine, AN 1, Captagon, Aspirine, Valium, Clenbuterol

10-6 weeks before the Competition daily: 2 injects Testoviron a 250 mg
1 inject Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
30 tabletts Metandienon (Dianabol from Thailand)
20 IE* STH (GH)
20 IE* Insuline

5-3 weeks before the Competition daily: 3 injects Masteron
2 injects Parabolan
30 tabletts Halotestin
50 tabletts Stromba
2 injects Stromba
24 IE* STH

insuline

2-1 weeks before the Competition daily: 2 injects Masteron
2 injects Stromba
40 tabletts Halotestin
80 tabletts Stromba
24 IE* STH
Insuline
IGF

A few days before the Competition: Aldactone, Lasix

:eek:

Didn’t Jon Hotten say in Muscle that carrying a list like that around was par for the course for a lot of BB’s because they buy gear in such large quantities when they can get their hands on legit stuff? Having an over top list like that suggests it’s for personal use only and not sale and supply, which is a charge they risk if they can’t “prove” it’s for them only.

SanoVitae

brianthebard wrote: »

So the placebo group was more aggressive than the one on steroids, you claim to know about this study but you still persist with the notion of roid rage even though it disproves or substantially damages the roid rage 'argument'?

brianthebard wrote: »

Do you think there's been scientific studies on 'roid rage'?

You asked me if I thought there had been scientific studies on "roid rage". I answered that there was and gave an example of one such study.

I did not say that there was studies which proved that steroids cause roid rage - if that was the case, I'd have linked you to a study which served to prove that it was indeed true. But I don't hold a strong enough opinion either way to hold any attachment either way. I simply read the studies and draw my own conclusions. They might be totally wrong of course!

brianthebard

SanoVitae wrote: »

You asked me if I thought there had been scientific studies on "roid rage". I answered that there was and gave an example of one such study.

I did not say that there was studies which proved that steroids cause roid rage - if that was the case, I'd have linked you to a study which served to prove that it was indeed true. But I don't hold a strong enough opinion either way to hold any attachment either way. I simply read the studies and draw my own conclusions. They might be totally wrong of course!

you have a strong enough opinion to state that roid rage is a side effect of using steroids, but don't even know what studies prove it? Why would you bother listing roid rage as a side effect if you know of a study that disproves or substantially damages that myth?

arybvtcw0eolkf

'Roid Rage' exists, FACT.

Degsy

brianthebard wrote: »

you have a strong enough opinion to state that roid rage is a side effect of using steroids, but don't even know what studies prove it? Why would you bother listing roid rage as a side effect if you know of a study that disproves or substantially damages that myth?

Look,you obviously havnt a clue what you're talking about.

40 mg/day orally administered testosterone

Is not a dose that anybody would take and expect to get any sort of results..bodybuilders dont take "oral" test..it needs to be injected and in much greater quantities than that.

If you're injecting 500-1000mls of test-e a week for 12 weeks your agression levels are gonna go through the roof..along with your libido and the intensity of your workouts.

Roid rage is not a myth,its very real side-effect,despite what internet-based "studies" might tell you.

brianthebard

Dragging an old bug bear of yours around still degs? I didn't do the study so don't tell me off for a 40mg dose that I had no control over. Sano made reference to a study which I then looked up and saw that it actually destroyed his own argument. There's no internet study involved here, read the f-ing thread or stfu.

sandi24

Saw a programme on this.They do it so that they skin becomes very light,therefore becoming tighter causing the skin to show all the muscles and make them look more ripped.

john_cappa

Degsy wrote: »

Look,you obviously havnt a clue what you're talking about.



Is not a dose that anybody would take and expect to get any sort of results..bodybuilders dont take "oral" test..it needs to be injected and in much greater quantities than that.

If you're injecting 500-1000mls of test-e a week for 12 weeks your agression levels are gonna go through the roof..along with your libido and the intensity of your workouts.

Roid rage is not a myth,its very real side-effect,despite what internet-based "studies" might tell you.

Brian he is right. You dont know **** lol

He is right. If you inject a litre of test ever week you will get pretty agressive...........and pretty dead the first day...lol

If it exists can you show some evidence? It is up to you to prove it exists. The burden of proof lies with you.



Roid rage does not exist in the media hyped sense that most refer to it. Obvioiusly they have an effect onn the hormone balance in ones body. Some I heard someone say one was...........

An asshole off gear= bigger asshole on gear.

This is not due to the gear, just due to them being an asshole in the first place.

I thin its pretty apt from my observations.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Degsy wrote: »

Look,you obviously havnt a clue what you're talking about.

Of course he doesn't, but don't be getting wound up about it.

FTA69

Is roid rage just a complete myth then? I've known many people who have used stroids and a fair few of them have told me themselves that steroid use (or maybe misuse) led to personality changes which were totally out of their previous character.

Or is it a case that excessive streoid use can simply exacerbate traits one might already have? (A bit like cannabis possibly triggering predispositions to mental illness etc)

Hanley

john_cappa wrote: »

An asshole off gear= bigger asshole on gear.

This is not due to the gear, just due to them being an asshole in the first place.

This. Correlation does not prove causation.

The person most likely to take gear on a recreational basis is of a certain type, the type that wouldn't really be the nicest of people start with. And the sort who's probably gonna throw their weight around once they've big enough to back up their talk.

Same with alcohol. If you're a wanker while sober, you're gonna be an insufferable cnut when you're drunk.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Hanley wrote: »

This. Correlation does not prove causation.

The person most likely to take gear on a recreational basis is of a certain type, the type that wouldn't really be the nicest of people start with. And the sort who's probably gonna throw their weight around once they've big enough to back up their talk.

Same with alcohol. If you're a wanker while sober, you're gonna be an insufferable cnut when you're drunk.

I don't think it works like that either H.

Hanley

Claudia Eager Squalor wrote: »

I don't think it works like that either H.

what... that if you're a loud mouth arsehole before you start taking gear that confidence boost gained from gaining more muscle and size won't make you worse??

The Davestator

Hanley wrote: »

This. Correlation does not prove causation.

The person most likely to take gear on a recreational basis is of a certain type, the type that wouldn't really be the nicest of people start with. And the sort who's probably gonna throw their weight around once they've big enough to back up their talk.

Same with alcohol. If you're a wanker while sober, you're gonna be an insufferable cnut when you're drunk.

Can't agree with the part about only arseholes taking gear, I know plenty of good lads who casually do a course or two a year

arybvtcw0eolkf

Hanley wrote: »

what... that if you're a loud mouth arsehole before you start taking gear that confidence boost gained from gaining more muscle and size won't make you worse??

Someone will shut it for you!.. Gear can't put muscle on your chin

Some guys react very strongly to testo, increased aggression being one of them. As is an increased libido, some lads get emotional (seriously). Whilst a lot of guys just get big.

Seriously everyone reacts differently to it.

But press the right button and everyone will get aggressive, its just a lot more intense when your up to your titties in testo.

'Roid Rage' - its just a turn of phrase to describe someone who's hyper aggressive from testo and no real science behind it man.

Degsy

Claudia Eager Squalor wrote: »

some lads get emotional (seriously).

Especially during PCT...clomid completely fcucks with your emotions and moods.

Degsy

brianthebard wrote: »

, read the f-ing thread or stfu.

I am reading the thread and you're saying that roid rage is a myth based on some study or other you read..i'm telling you its not a myth based on actually seeing it in the real world.
If you must read "Studies" on subjects like that,try Carlton Leech's book Muscle..a man who took every illegal drug available and to this day maintains steroids were the most destructive.

Hanley

Degsy wrote: »

I am reading the thread and you're saying that roid rage is a myth based on some study or other you read..i'm telling you its not a myth based on actually seeing it in the real world.
If you must read "Studies" on subjects like that,try Carlton Leech's book Muscle..a man who took every illegal drug available and to this day maintains steroids were the most destructive.

I've seen a lot of people take stuff and see how they've reacted to it. I've heard people say they can FEEL creatine hurting their liver too.

My point is, just because someone says something's effected them in a certain way doesn't mean I believe them. A lot of people say the effects that they expect to have, and probably genuinely believe it. Doesn't mean there's a physiological basis for it tho.

That's not to say there WON'T be some effect. I'm sure there can be. I just don't like when people use it as an excuse for being dicks, which I'm sure you'll all admit, some do.

Degsy

Hanley wrote: »

My point is, just because someone says something's effected them in a certain way doesn't mean I believe them. A lot of people say the effects that they expect to have, and probably genuinely believe it. Doesn't mean there's a physiological basis for it tho.

Well if somebody tells you they're falling around the place because they've had a bottle of vodka would you not believe them?
Likewise if somebody is having completely out of character mood swings,tantrums and rages and are showing increased levels of agression that they're attributing to taking test i would tend to believe them.

If you've got hundreds of times your normal testosterone levels swishing about in your system the effects on your mood can be very real indeed,and definatley not a placebo as you seem to be suggesting.

Look at teenagers..when thier hormones start kicking in do they not behave differently to when they're children?As the hormones flood the system the effects are visible and noticible..agression and mood swings included.

A lot of people dont know that gear is going to have that effect on them..it often comes as a complete surprise so they'd be far less likely to be hamming it up because they they think they should be behaving in a certain way.

The Davestator

Degsy- So, of the thousands of different steroids out there, are you only stating that test creates roid rage ? Or do all steroids cause this incredible hulk effect?

Degsy

The Davestator wrote: »

Degsy- So, of the thousands of different steroids out there, are you only stating that test creates roid rage ? Or do all steroids cause this incredible hulk effect?

Dont know everything about the "thousands" of steroids out there..they all have different uses mostly to augment the effects of test or to cut fat or to stop gyno or to get your balls working again after a cycle.

Any strength or size cycle is gonna be based around test so i'd imagine its the one causing the problems..

Khannie

Right....I'm too hungover to read this all right now but I'm going to be very clear about this: I expect a level of courtesy in this thread that I don't think is there right now. I'll be going back over it tomorrow so I don't want anyone riling anyone else deliberately or any other rubbish like that.

Thank you. Come again.

JayRoc

Degsy wrote: »

Especially during PCT...clomid completely fcucks with your emotions and moods.

Eh....Nope.

Degsy

JayRoc wrote: »

Eh....Nope.

Done it have you?

Mellor

The Davestator wrote: »

Can't agree with the part about only arseholes taking gear, I know plenty of good lads who casually do a course or two a year

He wasn't saying only asshoels take it, he was saying it that people who take it are more likely to be assholes, than somebody who refuses to take it, DUCY?

Hanley

Degsy wrote: »

Well if somebody tells you they're falling around the place because they've had a bottle of vodka would you not believe them?
Likewise if somebody is having completely out of character mood swings,tantrums and rages and are showing increased levels of agression that they're attributing to taking test i would tend to believe them.

If I give 5 people a bottle of vodka each, and 5 people water, and tell them all to drink it as fast as possibe, both groups should react exactly the same to the liquid they drink. THat is one will get pished and puke everywhere, one will be a little more hydrated.

Are you saying if you repeated that with steroids, both groups would have the same effect? What if you told them that they SHOULD be more aggressive afterwards??

Look at teenagers..when thier hormones start kicking in do they not behave differently to when they're children?As the hormones flood the system the effects are visible and noticible..agression and mood swings included.

Are you saying increased test levels is the only reason for their mood change? What about social pressure, friends, parents etc etc?

Degsy wrote: »

Done it have you?

Have you?

Hanley

Mellor wrote: »

He wasn't saying only asshoels take it, he was saying it that people who take it are more likely to be assholes

This.