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effective Irish people who did not need a private school

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  • 07-10-2010 10:27am
    #1
    Police Chief Wiggum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭


    a pal and his wife are at daggers drawn because one values the child going to the school down the road and being able to 'get along with everyone' :) and the other wants the child to go to a fee paying school so that he can be 'in with the movers and shakers....':eek:

    I was wondering who has not been harmed by going to the local secondary school, such as
    Miriam OCallaghan,
    Gay byrne,
    attorney general rory brady,
    Ian Dempsey,


    anyone else who has thrived despite not paying 7000 a year?
    apart from yourself that is;)


«1345

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    #2
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    nobody "needs" a private school with a functioning and well funded education system.

    The problem is not the private school, it's that fact that we don't have a properly funded primary and secondary school system


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    #3
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    I went to officially the second worst seconday school in the country. I had to cheat my ass off in the leaving cert just to get into college. Once i got in there i was fine and have managed to get a good job and become quite well read.


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    #4
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    orourkeda wrote: »
    nobody "needs" a private scholl with a functioning education system

    oh oh ! :D


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    #5
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    elviscostello wrote: »
    oh oh ! :D

    That was quick. That secretarial course is really coming through for you.


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    #6
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    orourkeda wrote: »
    That secretarial course is really coming through for you.

    :confused:



    I think a lot depends on the person, and not the school that they attend.


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    #7
    kmick
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭kmick


    Royston Brady*










    *This is a joke thread right Ted?


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    #8
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    If you're a bright kid where you attend school won't matter much.

    Private school is good for daft kids with wealthy parents. That way he or she will learn the importance of "it's not what you know, it's who you know".


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    #9
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    biko wrote: »
    Private school is good for daft kids with wealthy parents. That way he or she will learn the importance of "it's not what you know, it's who you know".

    Plus they'll develop a deep and meaningful love for rugby and deck shoes.


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    #10
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    elviscostello wrote: »
    :confused:



    I think a lot depends on the person, and not the school that they attend.

    There is a certain snobbery around academic qualifications. If a prospective employer had to choose between two candidates with similar qualifications, it has been known to happen that the one who attended the school or college that is perceived to be more prestigious will be selected.

    Personality or appearance may also influence


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    #11
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    biko wrote: »
    If you're a bright kid where you attend school won't matter much.

    Private school is good for daft kids with wealthy parents. That way he or she will learn the importance of "it's not what you know, it's who you know".

    That's not always true.

    Where you attend school can affect your prospects enormously. Intelligence on its enough isnt enough and the education you receive will dictate if a student fulfils their potential or not. i.e the better the school the better your chances.

    As you mention sometimes in life it's a case of who and not what you know. It's not always on merit. If you extend this logic a couple of steps further is the benefit of academic attainment given the credit it deserves in these circumstances.


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    #12
    humberklog
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    OP, sounds as though it's the parent that wants to be in with movers and shakers at the school gate.


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    #13
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    orourkeda wrote: »
    There is a certain snobbery around academic qualifications. If a prospective employer had to choose between two candidates with similar qualifications, it has been known to happen that the one who attended the school or college that is perceived to be more prestigious will be selected.

    Personality or appearance may also influence

    and where does a secretarial course come in to all this?

    I didn't think school came in to the equation at all for most prospective employers.


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    #14
    seven-iron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭seven-iron


    Most business owners, entrepreneurs and doctors come from private schools. Same with all the high level judges. I'm definitely sending my kids to private school. I think they'll get the best possible education and hopefully the best opportunities in life.


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    #15
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    elviscostello wrote: »
    and where does a secretarial course come in to all this?

    I didn't think school came in to the equation at all for most prospective employers.

    That was supposed to be a response to your little dig at me typing school incorrectly. Forget it.

    Sometimes your school can influence your prospects for a whole host of reasons. People will never admit it though.


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    #16
    coconut5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 696 ✭✭✭coconut5


    orourkeda wrote: »
    That's not always true.

    Where you attend school can affect your prospects enormously. Intelligence on its enough isnt enough and the education you receive will dictate if a student fulfils their potential or not. i.e the better the school the better your chances.

    As you mention sometimes in life it's a case of who and not what you know. It's not always on merit. If you extend this logic a couple of steps further is the benefit of academic attainment given the credit it deserves in these circumstances.

    I don't subscribe to this opinion at all. Loads of kids go to private schools and still have to repeat their Leaving Cert. If you are bright, you'll do well, it's as simple as that. I think a lot of public schools are really good anyway, we don't have a major divide between public/private education in this country, as far as I can see.

    But say if a smart kid goes to a 'bad' secondary school, they will receive a lot of encouragement from their teachers because they will really be rooting for them to do well, and there will be a lot less pupils in the honours classes. In a private school, they could be one of 30 bright kids, get lost in the crowd, feel the pressure and completely crumble, actually doing worse than they should have.


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    #17
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    orourkeda wrote: »
    That was supposed to be a response to your little dig at me typing school incorrectly. Forget it.

    It wasn't a dig. I was pointing out the irony of spelling the word school wrong in the first reply to a thread about education. No need to get the knickers in a twist about it.

    I've never taken a secretarial course btw, and I've nothing against anyone that has.


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    #18
    coconut5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 696 ✭✭✭coconut5


    seven-iron wrote: »
    Most business owners, entrepreneurs and doctors come from private schools. Same with all the high level judges. I'm definitely sending my kids to private school. I think they'll get the best possible education and hopefully the best opportunities in life.


    And most of those are from really wealthy families as well. If you can afford it, fine, but personally I think it is the biggest waste of money.


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    #19
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    seven-iron wrote: »
    Most business owners, entrepreneurs and doctors come from private schools. Same with all the high level judges. I'm definitely sending my kids to private school. I think they'll get the best possible education and hopefully the best opportunities in life.

    It's the same in a lot of countries. The vast majority "elite", for want of a better term, will all have attended prestigious private schools and their nations best universities.

    Everything in Ireland is two tiered, the health system, the education system and the justice system to name three and is always loaded in favour of those with the most money. It's possible to achieve in life without the benefitof a private or college education but becomes that bit more difficult.


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    #20
    bodun
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭bodun


    super_furry wrote: »
    Plus they'll develop a deep and meaningful love for rugby and deck shoes.

    Don't forget buggery!


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    #21
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    coconut5 wrote: »
    I don't subscribe to this opinion at all. Loads of kids go to private schools and still have to repeat their Leaving Cert. If you are bright, you'll do well, it's as simple as that. I think a lot of public schools are really good anyway, we don't have a major divide between public/private education in this country, as far as I can see.

    But say if a smart kid goes to a 'bad' secondary school, they will receive a lot of encouragement from their teachers because they will really be rooting for them to do well, and there will be a lot less pupils in the honours classes. In a private school, they could be one of 30 bright kids, get lost in the crowd, feel the pressure and completely crumble, actually doing worse than they should have.


    Perhaps I'm just cynical about these things and this is probably an extreme example: say you have two people competing for one job, one has a degree from Trinity College and the other has a qualification from a college with a perceived lesser reputation. Are you saying that this will count for nothing.


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    #22
    yeahme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 124 ✭✭yeahme


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Perhaps I'm just cynical about these things and this is probably an extreme example: say you have two people competing for one job, one has a degree from Trinity College and the other has a qualification from a college with a perceived lesser reputation. Are you saying that this will count for nothing.

    in a face to face interview, it wouldnt matter, personality comes out then, and before that it would be work experience etc....


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    #23
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,587 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    I'm sending my kid to a private school if I can afford it. Private schools don't tolerate poor performing teachers, public schools do. Its nothing to do with snobbery, it's to do with giving your kids the best opportunities you can


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    #24
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    sensibleken wrote: »
    I went to officially the second worst seconday school in the country. I had to cheat my ass off in the leaving cert just to get into college. Once i got in there i was fine and have managed to get a good job and become quite well read.
    Not a complete success.


    Edit: Cheap shot. I feel bad now.


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    #25
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    As biko has said early on - if the kid is an idiot, then going to a private school will help him make connections with kids who are likely to end up wealthy the day after they finish their leaving cert.

    For people with talent, the vast majority of their social and future business contacts are made in college and during their early career.

    Having gone to a private school, I can tell you that public schools produce more confident and well-rounded children then private schools.


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    #26
    coconut5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 696 ✭✭✭coconut5


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Perhaps I'm just cynical about these things and this is probably an extreme example: say you have two people competing for one job, one has a degree from Trinity College and the other has a qualification from a college with a perceived lesser reputation. Are you saying that this will count for nothing.

    I never even considered that it made the slightest bit of difference. Interviews are all about getting the right person for the job. Many of them have an aptitude test and so on. Going to Trinity won't help you there.


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    #27
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    yeahme wrote: »
    in a face to face interview, it wouldnt matter, personality comes out then, and before that it would be work experience etc....

    I wouldnt be so sure about that. If it doesnt matter why you bother even asking for it.


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    #28
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    coconut5 wrote: »
    I never even considered that it made the slightest bit of difference. Interviews are all about getting the right person for the job. Many of them have an aptitude test and so on. Going to Trinity won't help you there.

    In an ideal world this would be the case.

    We dont live in an ideal world and the best person doesnt always get the job. You've got to ask why this is?


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    #29
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    dvpower wrote: »
    Not a complete success.


    Edit: Cheap shot. I feel bad now.

    ffs


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    #30
    coconut5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 696 ✭✭✭coconut5


    orourkeda wrote: »
    In an ideal world this would be the case.

    We dont live in an ideal world and the best person doesnt always get the job. You've got to ask why this is?

    I don't think that always boils down to private schools and exclusive colleges. Sorry.


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    #31
    Police Chief Wiggum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭Police Chief Wiggum


    orourkeda wrote: »
    nobody "needs" a private school with a functioning and well funded education system.

    The problem is not the private school, it's that fact that we don't have a properly funded primary and secondary school system

    unfortunately these two parents cant change social policy..they are wading through the 'we are where we are'..

    someone above said that only doctors and judges go to private school

    my cousins wedding had 5 gps and an optician and more than one legal who had gone to the local schools.... usually outside of dublin as this often seems to be a dublin thing
    attorney general rory brady went to synge street
    maybe some local schools are private schools without the fees?

    the heavily involved parent at home seems to be a key ingredient though (the secret teacher in the kitchen:D)


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