effective Irish people who did not need a private school

Police Chief Wiggum

a pal and his wife are at daggers drawn because one values the child going to the school down the road and being able to 'get along with everyone' and the other wants the child to go to a fee paying school so that he can be 'in with the movers and shakers....':eek:

I was wondering who has not been harmed by going to the local secondary school, such as
Miriam OCallaghan,
Gay byrne,
attorney general rory brady,
Ian Dempsey,


anyone else who has thrived despite not paying 7000 a year?
apart from yourself that is;)

orourkeda

nobody "needs" a private school with a functioning and well funded education system.

The problem is not the private school, it's that fact that we don't have a properly funded primary and secondary school system

sensibleken

I went to officially the second worst seconday school in the country. I had to cheat my ass off in the leaving cert just to get into college. Once i got in there i was fine and have managed to get a good job and become quite well read.

_feedback_

orourkeda wrote: »

nobody "needs" a private scholl with a functioning education system

oh oh !

orourkeda

elviscostello wrote: »

oh oh !

That was quick. That secretarial course is really coming through for you.

_feedback_

orourkeda wrote: »

That secretarial course is really coming through for you.

I think a lot depends on the person, and not the school that they attend.

kmick

Royston Brady*










*This is a joke thread right Ted?

biko

If you're a bright kid where you attend school won't matter much.

Private school is good for daft kids with wealthy parents. That way he or she will learn the importance of "it's not what you know, it's who you know".

super_furry

biko wrote: »

Private school is good for daft kids with wealthy parents. That way he or she will learn the importance of "it's not what you know, it's who you know".

Plus they'll develop a deep and meaningful love for rugby and deck shoes.

orourkeda

elviscostello wrote: »

I think a lot depends on the person, and not the school that they attend.

There is a certain snobbery around academic qualifications. If a prospective employer had to choose between two candidates with similar qualifications, it has been known to happen that the one who attended the school or college that is perceived to be more prestigious will be selected.

Personality or appearance may also influence

orourkeda

biko wrote: »

If you're a bright kid where you attend school won't matter much.

Private school is good for daft kids with wealthy parents. That way he or she will learn the importance of "it's not what you know, it's who you know".

That's not always true.

Where you attend school can affect your prospects enormously. Intelligence on its enough isnt enough and the education you receive will dictate if a student fulfils their potential or not. i.e the better the school the better your chances.

As you mention sometimes in life it's a case of who and not what you know. It's not always on merit. If you extend this logic a couple of steps further is the benefit of academic attainment given the credit it deserves in these circumstances.

humberklog

OP, sounds as though it's the parent that wants to be in with movers and shakers at the school gate.

_feedback_

orourkeda wrote: »

There is a certain snobbery around academic qualifications. If a prospective employer had to choose between two candidates with similar qualifications, it has been known to happen that the one who attended the school or college that is perceived to be more prestigious will be selected.

Personality or appearance may also influence

and where does a secretarial course come in to all this?

I didn't think school came in to the equation at all for most prospective employers.

seven-iron

Most business owners, entrepreneurs and doctors come from private schools. Same with all the high level judges. I'm definitely sending my kids to private school. I think they'll get the best possible education and hopefully the best opportunities in life.

orourkeda

elviscostello wrote: »

and where does a secretarial course come in to all this?

I didn't think school came in to the equation at all for most prospective employers.

That was supposed to be a response to your little dig at me typing school incorrectly. Forget it.

Sometimes your school can influence your prospects for a whole host of reasons. People will never admit it though.

coconut5

orourkeda wrote: »

That's not always true.

Where you attend school can affect your prospects enormously. Intelligence on its enough isnt enough and the education you receive will dictate if a student fulfils their potential or not. i.e the better the school the better your chances.

As you mention sometimes in life it's a case of who and not what you know. It's not always on merit. If you extend this logic a couple of steps further is the benefit of academic attainment given the credit it deserves in these circumstances.

I don't subscribe to this opinion at all. Loads of kids go to private schools and still have to repeat their Leaving Cert. If you are bright, you'll do well, it's as simple as that. I think a lot of public schools are really good anyway, we don't have a major divide between public/private education in this country, as far as I can see.

But say if a smart kid goes to a 'bad' secondary school, they will receive a lot of encouragement from their teachers because they will really be rooting for them to do well, and there will be a lot less pupils in the honours classes. In a private school, they could be one of 30 bright kids, get lost in the crowd, feel the pressure and completely crumble, actually doing worse than they should have.

_feedback_

orourkeda wrote: »

That was supposed to be a response to your little dig at me typing school incorrectly. Forget it.

It wasn't a dig. I was pointing out the irony of spelling the word school wrong in the first reply to a thread about education. No need to get the knickers in a twist about it.

I've never taken a secretarial course btw, and I've nothing against anyone that has.

coconut5

seven-iron wrote: »

Most business owners, entrepreneurs and doctors come from private schools. Same with all the high level judges. I'm definitely sending my kids to private school. I think they'll get the best possible education and hopefully the best opportunities in life.

And most of those are from really wealthy families as well. If you can afford it, fine, but personally I think it is the biggest waste of money.

orourkeda

seven-iron wrote: »

Most business owners, entrepreneurs and doctors come from private schools. Same with all the high level judges. I'm definitely sending my kids to private school. I think they'll get the best possible education and hopefully the best opportunities in life.

It's the same in a lot of countries. The vast majority "elite", for want of a better term, will all have attended prestigious private schools and their nations best universities.

Everything in Ireland is two tiered, the health system, the education system and the justice system to name three and is always loaded in favour of those with the most money. It's possible to achieve in life without the benefitof a private or college education but becomes that bit more difficult.

bodun

super_furry wrote: »

Plus they'll develop a deep and meaningful love for rugby and deck shoes.

Don't forget buggery!

orourkeda

coconut5 wrote: »

I don't subscribe to this opinion at all. Loads of kids go to private schools and still have to repeat their Leaving Cert. If you are bright, you'll do well, it's as simple as that. I think a lot of public schools are really good anyway, we don't have a major divide between public/private education in this country, as far as I can see.

But say if a smart kid goes to a 'bad' secondary school, they will receive a lot of encouragement from their teachers because they will really be rooting for them to do well, and there will be a lot less pupils in the honours classes. In a private school, they could be one of 30 bright kids, get lost in the crowd, feel the pressure and completely crumble, actually doing worse than they should have.

Perhaps I'm just cynical about these things and this is probably an extreme example: say you have two people competing for one job, one has a degree from Trinity College and the other has a qualification from a college with a perceived lesser reputation. Are you saying that this will count for nothing.

yeahme

orourkeda wrote: »

Perhaps I'm just cynical about these things and this is probably an extreme example: say you have two people competing for one job, one has a degree from Trinity College and the other has a qualification from a college with a perceived lesser reputation. Are you saying that this will count for nothing.

in a face to face interview, it wouldnt matter, personality comes out then, and before that it would be work experience etc....

faceman

I'm sending my kid to a private school if I can afford it. Private schools don't tolerate poor performing teachers, public schools do. Its nothing to do with snobbery, it's to do with giving your kids the best opportunities you can

dvpower

sensibleken wrote: »

I went to officially the second worst seconday school in the country. I had to cheat my ass off in the leaving cert just to get into college. Once i got in there i was fine and have managed to get a good job and become quite well read.

Not a complete success.


Edit: Cheap shot. I feel bad now.

seamus

As biko has said early on - if the kid is an idiot, then going to a private school will help him make connections with kids who are likely to end up wealthy the day after they finish their leaving cert.

For people with talent, the vast majority of their social and future business contacts are made in college and during their early career.

Having gone to a private school, I can tell you that public schools produce more confident and well-rounded children then private schools.

coconut5

orourkeda wrote: »

Perhaps I'm just cynical about these things and this is probably an extreme example: say you have two people competing for one job, one has a degree from Trinity College and the other has a qualification from a college with a perceived lesser reputation. Are you saying that this will count for nothing.

I never even considered that it made the slightest bit of difference. Interviews are all about getting the right person for the job. Many of them have an aptitude test and so on. Going to Trinity won't help you there.

orourkeda

yeahme wrote: »

in a face to face interview, it wouldnt matter, personality comes out then, and before that it would be work experience etc....

I wouldnt be so sure about that. If it doesnt matter why you bother even asking for it.

orourkeda

coconut5 wrote: »

I never even considered that it made the slightest bit of difference. Interviews are all about getting the right person for the job. Many of them have an aptitude test and so on. Going to Trinity won't help you there.

In an ideal world this would be the case.

We dont live in an ideal world and the best person doesnt always get the job. You've got to ask why this is?

sensibleken

dvpower wrote: »

Not a complete success.


Edit: Cheap shot. I feel bad now.

ffs

coconut5

orourkeda wrote: »

In an ideal world this would be the case.

We dont live in an ideal world and the best person doesnt always get the job. You've got to ask why this is?

I don't think that always boils down to private schools and exclusive colleges. Sorry.

Police Chief Wiggum

orourkeda wrote: »

nobody "needs" a private school with a functioning and well funded education system.

The problem is not the private school, it's that fact that we don't have a properly funded primary and secondary school system

unfortunately these two parents cant change social policy..they are wading through the 'we are where we are'..

someone above said that only doctors and judges go to private school

my cousins wedding had 5 gps and an optician and more than one legal who had gone to the local schools.... usually outside of dublin as this often seems to be a dublin thing
attorney general rory brady went to synge street
maybe some local schools are private schools without the fees?

the heavily involved parent at home seems to be a key ingredient though (the secret teacher in the kitchen:D)

orourkeda

coconut5 wrote: »

I don't think that always boils down to private schools and exclusive colleges. Sorry.

It doesnt boil down to private schools v public schools exclusively, but it's bound to have some sort of effect.

Pace2008

orourkeda wrote: »

Perhaps I'm just cynical about these things and this is probably an extreme example: say you have two people competing for one job, one has a degree from Trinity College and the other has a qualification from a college with a perceived lesser reputation. Are you saying that this will count for nothing.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but this isn't the most apt analogy as different colleges do different degrees, while everyone does the same Leaving Cert.

gizmo

Question for those who went to private schools, was doing well in school as looked down upon there as it was in the public schools I and many of my friends went to?

orourkeda

Police Chief Wiggum wrote: »

unfortunately these two parents cant change social policy..they are wading through the 'we are where we are'..

someone above said that only doctors and judges go to private school

my cousins wedding had 5 gps and an optician and more than one legal who had gone to the local schools.... usually outside of dublin as this often seems to be a dublin thing
attorney general rory brady went to synge street
maybe some local schools are private schools without the fees?

the heavily involved parent at home seems to be a key ingredient though (the secret teacher in the kitchen:D)

It's perfectly possible to fulfil your potential as a student in a public school. No doubt.

However, I believe a private school enhances your prospects. I know this appears snobby. I just see it as a fact of life. In an odeal world this distinction wouldnt be drawn

As I've mentioned earlier this principle to a lot of other walks of life outside the education system.

orourkeda

Pace2008 wrote: »

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but this isn't the most apt analogy as different colleges do different degrees, while everyone does the same Leaving Cert.

What if it's a degree in the same subject.

theteal

Anyway, back to the OP's actual question....

Niall Quinn - current chairman of Sunderland FC
Kevin Moran - founder of Proactive Sports Management

Granted they both had successful sports careers in the period between leaving the same illustrious public school and their current roles.

Ludo

Back to the original question:

Michael Martin (minister for foreign affairs) did not go to a private school.

Whether he is "effective" is open to debate though.

I don't think typos count as spelling mistakes so they aren't really ironic

In any case I have absolutely no idea about private vs public schools.
I do know that a lot of getting on around here seems to be "not what you know but who you know". Don't know if you need to fork out a ton of money for that though...

lily09

Wouldnt send a child to private school. Yes im a teacher (on my lunch break) Teachers in private schools can often be underqualified as the pay is not as good. I was offered half my current pay at one in Munster. Also private schools will very rarely take children with any form of special needs (dyslexia etc) so it skews their results. Suppose if you want to network though would be the right place.

Pace2008

orourkeda wrote: »

What if it's a degree in the same subject.

The curricula will vary from institution to institution, as will the exams. The curriculum and final exams are standardised for the LC.

meditraitor

Im not pushed either way, we will probably look at all the local schools and then make a decision based on our gut. 7k isnt that much anyway, we are paying 12k for the f***ing creche as it is.

orourkeda

lily09 wrote: »

Wouldnt send a child to private school. Yes im a teacher (on my lunch break) Teachers in private schools can often be underqualified as the pay is not as good. I was offered half my current pay at one in Munster. Also private schools will very rarely take children with any form of special needs (dyslexia etc) so it skews their results. Suppose if you want to network though would be the right place.

If this is the case how do they justify their fees.

rhythm90

Police Chief Wiggum wrote: »

I was wondering who has not been harmed by going to the local schools

In fairness.... probably less catholic priests in the private schools....

_feedback_

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't think typos count as spelling mistakes so they aren't really ironic

I really don't think it matters that much! Really over-analyzing a silly little AH post at this stage.

orourkeda

orourkeda wrote: »

Perhaps I'm just cynical about these things and this is probably an extreme example: say you have two people competing for one job, one has a degree from Trinity College and the other has a qualification from a college with a perceived lesser reputation. Are you saying that this will count for nothing.

You are correct, maybe not so much in Ireland but definitely in the UK and US.

coconut5 wrote: »

I never even considered that it made the slightest bit of difference. Interviews are all about getting the right person for the job. Many of them have an aptitude test and so on. Going to Trinity won't help you there.

I lived in London for a while and having applied for jobs and gone to interviews etc I know it make a big difference. Some firms more or less tell you, if you have not gone to a top university Oxford, Cambridge etc then dont bother applying. In interviews when you say the name of the University you went to (NUIG) in my case they don't know a thing about it, if you have got the interview its not such a massive deal but it doesn't help. However you might not get the interview in the first place if you don't meet their criteria on universities.

I don't agree with it btw, yes there are some joke university's but having a good degree from an established university should be good enough to be given a chance.

On the topic of private v public schools, my opinion is a good student will succeed however a poor or average student or a bright student who needs to be forced to work harder will benefit from at least doing there two final years in a grind school if not going to private school from the start.

fkiely

lily09 wrote: »

Wouldnt send a child to private school. Yes im a teacher (on my lunch break) Teachers in private schools can often be underqualified as the pay is not as good. I was offered half my current pay at one in Munster. Also private schools will very rarely take children with any form of special needs (dyslexia etc) so it skews their results. Suppose if you want to network though would be the right place.

Your post in riddled with inaccuracies. The pay in private schools is often much higher, hence how they can often cherry pick. Also to say that they don't take on children with special needs is completely unsubstantiated.

Novella

gizmo wrote: »

Question for those who went to private schools, was doing well in school as looked down upon there as it was in the public schools I and many of my friends went to?

I went to a private school and doing well in school was pretty much the reason the majority of students attended in the first place. Most people in my year were aiming for really high points and wanted to go on to do courses such as Medicine etc. There was a lot of competition to get the best grades.

I can't speak for all private schools, of course, but that's how it was in the one I went to.

starbelgrade

seven-iron wrote: »

Most business owners, entrepreneurs and doctors come from private schools.

You just pulled that out of your arse, didn't you? I know lots of business owners & entrepreneurs. Most of them didn't attend private schools & many of them didn't even go to college.

I can't stand people just making sh*t up to suit their own side of the argument.

The school you go to can limit your options - I read an opinion piece in the Irish Times (I will try to find it this evening) from someone opposed to giving bonus points for higher maths and I was amazed at the numbers of schools that don't have anyone studying maths at higher level for the Junior or Leaving Cert.

lily09

lily09 wrote: »

Wouldnt send a child to private school. Yes im a teacher (on my lunch break) Teachers in private schools can often be underqualified as the pay is not as good. I was offered half my current pay at one in Munster.

I know that grind schools pay very well much better than normal teachers and I'm sure private schools are not much different. I have a friend who was offered big money to teach maths in a grind school not so long ago.