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effective Irish people who did not need a private school

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    #32
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    coconut5 wrote: »
    I don't think that always boils down to private schools and exclusive colleges. Sorry.

    It doesnt boil down to private schools v public schools exclusively, but it's bound to have some sort of effect.


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    #33
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Perhaps I'm just cynical about these things and this is probably an extreme example: say you have two people competing for one job, one has a degree from Trinity College and the other has a qualification from a college with a perceived lesser reputation. Are you saying that this will count for nothing.
    I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but this isn't the most apt analogy as different colleges do different degrees, while everyone does the same Leaving Cert.


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    #34
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    Question for those who went to private schools, was doing well in school as looked down upon there as it was in the public schools I and many of my friends went to?


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    #35
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Police Chief Wiggum wrote: »
    unfortunately these two parents cant change social policy..they are wading through the 'we are where we are'..

    someone above said that only doctors and judges go to private school

    my cousins wedding had 5 gps and an optician and more than one legal who had gone to the local schools.... usually outside of dublin as this often seems to be a dublin thing
    attorney general rory brady went to synge street
    maybe some local schools are private schools without the fees?

    the heavily involved parent at home seems to be a key ingredient though (the secret teacher in the kitchen:D)

    It's perfectly possible to fulfil your potential as a student in a public school. No doubt.

    However, I believe a private school enhances your prospects. I know this appears snobby. I just see it as a fact of life. In an odeal world this distinction wouldnt be drawn

    As I've mentioned earlier this principle to a lot of other walks of life outside the education system.


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    #36
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but this isn't the most apt analogy as different colleges do different degrees, while everyone does the same Leaving Cert.

    What if it's a degree in the same subject.


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    #37
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    Anyway, back to the OP's actual question....

    Niall Quinn - current chairman of Sunderland FC
    Kevin Moran - founder of Proactive Sports Management

    Granted they both had successful sports careers in the period between leaving the same illustrious public school and their current roles.


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    #38
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    Back to the original question:

    Michael Martin (minister for foreign affairs) did not go to a private school.

    Whether he is "effective" is open to debate though.


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    #39
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    I don't think typos count as spelling mistakes so they aren't really ironic :confused:

    In any case I have absolutely no idea about private vs public schools.
    I do know that a lot of getting on around here seems to be "not what you know but who you know". Don't know if you need to fork out a ton of money for that though...


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    #40
    lily09
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭lily09


    Wouldnt send a child to private school. Yes im a teacher (on my lunch break) Teachers in private schools can often be underqualified as the pay is not as good. I was offered half my current pay at one in Munster. Also private schools will very rarely take children with any form of special needs (dyslexia etc) so it skews their results. Suppose if you want to network though would be the right place.


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    #41
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    orourkeda wrote: »
    What if it's a degree in the same subject.
    The curricula will vary from institution to institution, as will the exams. The curriculum and final exams are standardised for the LC.


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    #42
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    Im not pushed either way, we will probably look at all the local schools and then make a decision based on our gut. 7k isnt that much anyway, we are paying 12k for the f***ing creche as it is.


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    #43
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    lily09 wrote: »
    Wouldnt send a child to private school. Yes im a teacher (on my lunch break) Teachers in private schools can often be underqualified as the pay is not as good. I was offered half my current pay at one in Munster. Also private schools will very rarely take children with any form of special needs (dyslexia etc) so it skews their results. Suppose if you want to network though would be the right place.

    If this is the case how do they justify their fees.


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    #44
    rhythm90
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭rhythm90


    Police Chief Wiggum wrote: »

    I was wondering who has not been harmed by going to the local schools

    In fairness.... probably less catholic priests in the private schools....


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    #45
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I don't think typos count as spelling mistakes so they aren't really ironic :confused:

    I really don't think it matters that much! Really over-analyzing a silly little AH post at this stage.


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Perhaps I'm just cynical about these things and this is probably an extreme example: say you have two people competing for one job, one has a degree from Trinity College and the other has a qualification from a college with a perceived lesser reputation. Are you saying that this will count for nothing.

    You are correct, maybe not so much in Ireland but definitely in the UK and US.
    coconut5 wrote: »
    I never even considered that it made the slightest bit of difference. Interviews are all about getting the right person for the job. Many of them have an aptitude test and so on. Going to Trinity won't help you there.

    I lived in London for a while and having applied for jobs and gone to interviews etc I know it make a big difference. Some firms more or less tell you, if you have not gone to a top university Oxford, Cambridge etc then dont bother applying. In interviews when you say the name of the University you went to (NUIG) in my case they don't know a thing about it, if you have got the interview its not such a massive deal but it doesn't help. However you might not get the interview in the first place if you don't meet their criteria on universities.

    I don't agree with it btw, yes there are some joke university's but having a good degree from an established university should be good enough to be given a chance.

    On the topic of private v public schools, my opinion is a good student will succeed however a poor or average student or a bright student who needs to be forced to work harder will benefit from at least doing there two final years in a grind school if not going to private school from the start.


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    #47
    fkiely
    Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭fkiely


    lily09 wrote: »
    Wouldnt send a child to private school. Yes im a teacher (on my lunch break) Teachers in private schools can often be underqualified as the pay is not as good. I was offered half my current pay at one in Munster. Also private schools will very rarely take children with any form of special needs (dyslexia etc) so it skews their results. Suppose if you want to network though would be the right place.

    Your post in riddled with inaccuracies. The pay in private schools is often much higher, hence how they can often cherry pick. Also to say that they don't take on children with special needs is completely unsubstantiated.


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    #48
    Novella
    Registered Users Posts: 13,713 ✭✭✭✭Novella


    gizmo wrote: »
    Question for those who went to private schools, was doing well in school as looked down upon there as it was in the public schools I and many of my friends went to?

    I went to a private school and doing well in school was pretty much the reason the majority of students attended in the first place. Most people in my year were aiming for really high points and wanted to go on to do courses such as Medicine etc. There was a lot of competition to get the best grades.

    I can't speak for all private schools, of course, but that's how it was in the one I went to.


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    #49
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    seven-iron wrote: »
    Most business owners, entrepreneurs and doctors come from private schools.

    You just pulled that out of your arse, didn't you? I know lots of business owners & entrepreneurs. Most of them didn't attend private schools & many of them didn't even go to college.

    I can't stand people just making sh*t up to suit their own side of the argument.


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The school you go to can limit your options - I read an opinion piece in the Irish Times (I will try to find it this evening) from someone opposed to giving bonus points for higher maths and I was amazed at the numbers of schools that don't have anyone studying maths at higher level for the Junior or Leaving Cert.


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    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lily09 wrote: »
    Wouldnt send a child to private school. Yes im a teacher (on my lunch break) Teachers in private schools can often be underqualified as the pay is not as good. I was offered half my current pay at one in Munster.

    I know that grind schools pay very well much better than normal teachers and I'm sure private schools are not much different. I have a friend who was offered big money to teach maths in a grind school not so long ago.


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    #52
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    coconut5 wrote: »

    But say if a smart kid goes to a 'bad' secondary school, they will receive a lot of encouragement from their teachers because they will really be rooting for them to do well, and there will be a lot less pupils in the honours classes. In a private school, they could be one of 30 bright kids, get lost in the crowd, feel the pressure and completely crumble, actually doing worse than they should have.

    Sorry but no! I went to a spectacularly bad school and I would consider myself clever. The most we did is any course when it came to the LC was 55%, almost every teacher I had had the attitude that 'all of yous will end up doing unskilled labour or in prison'.

    Hence my reasons for getting grinds and cheating a lot.


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    #53
    lily09
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭lily09


    fkiely wrote: »
    Your post in riddled with inaccuracies. The pay in private schools is often much higher, hence how they can often cherry pick. Also to say that they don't take on children with special needs is completely unsubstantiated.

    No its not. Im talking about primary schools and I have had lots of dealings with them not taking on special needs kids into the secondary schools they do it through a entrance exam system.
    Please dont call me a liar. I was offered 25,000 for a private primary school in south munster.
    Grinds schools are different. Sorry if i wasnt clear.


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    #54
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    seven-iron wrote: »
    Most business owners, entrepreneurs and doctors come from private schools.

    I don't agree with this.
    And some the of most successful people in the country never went to college or even left school early.


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    #55
    knird evol
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭knird evol


    its all about Networking - not better school


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    #56
    seven-iron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭seven-iron


    Yeah but the majority of successful people have a private school background. Especially doctors, dentists, finance professionals and judges.

    Walk down Shelbourne Road. Many of the inhabitants are accountants and judges who went to private schools.

    I think it is a system that works. Look at the UK politicians. They all went to the best and most prestigious private schools in England. Personally, I think that is a route that we should follow. We should have our brightest and best in office. If you have a poor education you should be made step aside.


    EDIT: I'm not saying this to prove my own self-worth. I just want the best for my kids. Surely you cant disagree with me on that.


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    #57
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    seven-iron wrote: »
    If you have a poor education you should be made step aside.
    Surely one should be judged on their performance rather than their background? I'm sure a good education is conducive to competence in office, but if it's obvious you're capable in your area of work, why should it matter?


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    #58
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    seven-iron wrote: »
    I think it is a system that works. Look at the UK politicians. They all went to the best and most prestigious private schools in England. Personally, I think that is a route that we should follow. We should have our brightest and best in office. If you have a poor education you should be made step aside.

    Seriously? I think a lot of people in the UK would disagree with this.


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    #59
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    seven-iron wrote: »
    I think it is a system that works. Look at the UK politicians. They all went to the best and most prestigious private schools in England. Personally, I think that is a route that we should follow. We should have our brightest and best in office. If you have a poor education you should be made step aside.

    How can you insinuate that a system that favours elitism and those who can afford private education works?! I'm sorry, this makes no sense to me. It's as ridiculous as all those lecturers I had and those students I encountered who told me that I shouldn't be working a retail job through college. So those people had privilege. Whoop de bloody doo. I'm not gonna favour a system that would segregate or dismiss my abilities because I wasn't lucky enough to have those advantages, and I wouldn't favour a system which would encourage those same people who made those ridiculous comments deciding on the future of a class of people they have no idea about.

    ETA: This sense of elitism and building contacts is a large contributor to the cronyism that is rife in this country, which led to people with no social awareness making ill-advised and nonsensical moves on behalf of we, the lowly peons. How arrogant.


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    #60
    seven-iron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭seven-iron


    Yes 100%.

    Our problem in Ireland is that not enough of our brightest and best go into politics.

    We may be in a different situation now, if we had of had better educated people in the Dail for the last ten years. I'd love to know what the breakdown in the Dail is between TD's who went public and those who went private. My guess is that it is currently favoring the former by a lot!


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    #61
    NullZer0
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭NullZer0


    Brian Cowen - the man is a genius.


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