the banks again

thebaz

sorry .. but the cess pit of AIB, Anglo and Nationwide just gets worse

this time its the AIB , the bank owned by you and me, is paying out a yearly pension to ex Chief and the man who broke it

"Sheehy was paid millions during his three-year reign and left AIB with an almost €900,000 payout and a pension of around €450,000 a year."

As an owner , or so I'm led to believe , I demand this is stopped immediatly and pay him state pension of 196 a week or what everyone else gets - 450,000 in this day in age is disgusting, for a man who created the mess we are all in

Gunsfortoys

thebaz wrote: »

for a man who created the mess we are all in

No he didn't.

Snakeblood

thebaz wrote: »

sorry .. but the cess pit of AIB, Anglo and Nationwide just gets worse

this time its the AIB , the bank owned by you and me, is paying out a yearly pension to ex Chief and the man who broke it

"Sheehy was paid millions during his three-year reign and left AIB with an almost €900,000 payout and a pension of around €450,000 a year."

As an owner , or so I'm led to believe , I demand this is stopped immediatly and pay him state pension of 196 a week or what everyone else gets - 450,000 in this day in age is disgusting, for a man who created the mess we are all in

The problem is people signed contracts. If you invalidate his contract, why don't they invalidate any contract people don't like?

He may have ****ed the country into the middle of the dark ages, but he's got the law on his side. The best people can hope for is renegotiation.

thebaz

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

No he didn't.

he is partly responsible - or are you saying he did a good job and deserves a reward of 450,000 a year ??

Donkey Oaty

Just a thought: it might be illegal not to pay him this money, and legal action by him to claim it would ultimately cost us all even more than it does now.

Still a bit sickening though.

Dravokivich

thebaz wrote: »

As an owner , or so I'm led to believe

Are you an actual majority share holder or are you jumping the gun here because the Government has bailed them out?

we as individuals DO NOT OWN any of these bailed out banks!

Gunsfortoys

thebaz wrote: »

he is partly responsible - or are you saying he did a good job and deserves a reward of 450,000 a year ??

He deserves none of it. However he didn't create the economic mess we are in.

thebaz

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

He deserves none of it. However he didn't create the economic mess we are in.

I said partly to blame, he was chief of the largest bank in ireland, and got paid handsomely to manage it - if he was doing such a good job why has the bank no money ??

Dravokivich

thebaz wrote: »

I said partly to blame, he was chief of the largest bank in ireland, and got paid handsomely to manage it - if he was doing such a good job why has the bank no money ??

That's a question for the economics forum.

What exactly are you trying to suggest with this thread?

Gunsfortoys

thebaz wrote: »

for a man who created the mess we are all in

No you said....

thebaz wrote: »

for a man who created the mess we are all in

The regulator was responsible for monitoring the banks, lending etc.

mikemac

There are many areas in AIB.
Some are black holes but some are making good profits

Do you actually own any shares?
Did you purchase them with a broker?

thebaz

Dravokivich wrote: »

That's a question for the economics forum.

What exactly are you trying to suggest with this thread?

that he did a great job and fully deserves his reward - while some of his fellow fat cat bankers suggest the ordinary Joe works an extra half a day a week for free - yeah thats the attitude - are you a banker ?

brianthebard

thebaz wrote: »

As an owner , or so I'm led to believe , I demand this is stopped immediatly and pay him state pension of 196 a week or what everyone else gets - 450,000 in this day in age is disgusting, for a man who created the mess we are all in

The government didn't nationalise the banks so you're not an owner, if you want that option then you should support labour....

Dravokivich

thebaz wrote: »

that he did a great job and fully deserves his reward - while some of his fellow fat cat bankers suggest the ordinary Joe works an extra hald a week for free - yeah that the attitude - are you a banker ?

I... bank...

But I have no idea what you are getting at. Even people who do a shít job still have to get paid what a company is obliged to pay them as defined in any signed contracts.

What's your point?

thebaz

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

No you said....



The regulator was responsible for monitoring the banks, lending etc.

no single person is responsible for the mess, not even Seanie, but I think message was clear enough - i just think its disgusing that some of the people who created the mess are experiencing little hardship and expect the ordinary people of this state to clean up their mess

Dravokivich

thebaz wrote: »

no single person is responsible for the mess, not even Seanie, but I think message was clear enough - i just think its disgusing that some of the people who created the mess are experiencing little hardship and expect the ordinary people of this state to clean up their mess

This mess is as much a problem caused by the consumer as the lender you know...

Gunsfortoys

thebaz wrote: »

while some of his fellow fat cat bankers suggest the ordinary Joe works an extra hald a week for free

I have yet to hear a banker saying the ordinary Joe should work an extra week for free. Your argument should be with the current government not the bankers.

thebaz

Dravokivich wrote: »

I... bank...

But I have no idea what you are getting at. Even people who do a shít job still have to get paid what a company is obliged to pay them as defined in any signed contracts.

Why should people who pass on a financial burden to others be rewarded , maybe its just me then who finds this whole thing disgusing

thebaz

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

I have yet to hear a banker saying the ordinary Joe should work an extra week for free. Your argument should be with the current government not the bankers.

Soden ex BoI suggested it over weekend -
why should bankers not suffer, it was they who broke the banks , not the govt - yes the govt and in particular regulator contributed hugely

I would not pay the ex regulator more than 196 a week either

TelePaul

thebaz wrote: »

no single person is responsible for the mess, not even Seanie, but I think message was clear enough - i just think its disgusing that some of the people who created the mess are experiencing little hardship and expect the ordinary people of this state to clean up their mess

You can't blame the banks for irresponsible lending without blaming the people for irresponsible borrowing. Irish society reached a point whereby hairdressers and taxi-drivers fancied themselves as millionaire property moguls. Society does not function in this manner. Eugene Sheehy was appointed MD in 2001, eight years before the banking crisis. No reason to blame him for anything really.

Dravokivich

thebaz wrote: »

Why should people who pass on a financial burden to others be rewarded , maybe its just me then who finds this whole thing disgusing

The whole thing yeah...

But this guy's pension payout is a non-issue. If we weren't in this mess now, he'd still be getting the same pension... would you have an issue with it then?

Anyone hung up on the wages / bonus' people receive from doing their jobs is missing the bleeding point...

It was the same arguement with Thomas Cook... "Oh our boss is getting loads of money, why should they be closing our office down.. look how much money he's making"

Get off of it...

thebaz

TelePaul wrote: »

You can't blame the banks for irresponsible lending without blaming the people for irresponsible borrowing. Irish society reached a point whereby hairdressers and taxi-drivers fancied themselves as millionaire property moguls. Society does not function in this manner. Eugene Sheehy was appointed MD in 2001, eight years before the banking crisis. No reason to blame him for anything really.

well where is all AIB's money then, if he is not to blame?????

TelePaul

thebaz wrote: »

well where is all AIB's money then, if he is not to blame?????

Loans that were defaulted upon by the public

seven-iron

Anyone hung up on the wages / bonus' people receive from doing their jobs is missing the bleeding point...

It was the same arguement with Thomas Cook... "Oh our boss is getting loads of money, why should they be closing our office down.. look how much money he's making"

Couldn't agree more.

In all likelihood, our own social welfare will be cut. Not the pensions of business people who are in the spotlight. Don't get carried away with this mob mentality.

bobblepuzzle

thebaz wrote: »

well where is all AIB's money then, if he is not to blame?????

To people who cannot pay it back unfortunately....

thebaz

Dravokivich wrote: »

The whole thing yeah...

But this guy's pension payout is a non-issue. If we weren't in this mess now, he'd still be getting the same pension... would you have an issue with it then?

Anyone hung up on the wages / bonus' people receive from doing their jobs is missing the bleeding point...

It was the same arguement with Thomas Cook... "Oh our boss is getting loads of money, why should they be closing our office down.. look how much money he's making"

Get off of it...

the fact is we are in a mess now , and I do have an issue with it


you seam to be of the opinion that executives should all get re-imbursed well, and if the average worker (Thomas Cook) loses his job with no money, so what .... yeah greed is good for incompetents

bobblepuzzle

thebaz wrote: »

the fact is we are in a mess now , and I do have an issue with it


you seam to be of the opinion that executives should all get re-imbursed well, and if the average worker (Thomas Cook) loses his job with no money, so what .... yeah greed is good for incompetents

At the end of the day, AIB are required to fulfill contractual obligations...

It sucks, but that's the way it is.

TelePaul

thebaz wrote: »

yeah greed is good for incompetents

There are fundamental economic and organizational principles at play here which negate assertions of this type. Believe me, I know how easy it is to blame all of our problems on the banks but in all honestly, people would be calling the banks greedy if they'd been turned down on a loan application for that second or third house.

Dravokivich

thebaz wrote: »

the fact is we are in a mess now , and I do have an issue with it


you seam to be of the opinion that executives should all get re-imbursed well, and if the average worker (Thomas Cook) loses his job with no money, so what .... yeah greed is good for incompetents

Re-imbursed?

For what?

I still don't understand what point you are trying to make.

Also, in regards to my Thomas Cook reference, I take it you weren't aware of the generously high severance packet they were told they'd be getting the day before they went on "strike"?

thebaz

TelePaul wrote: »

There are fundamental economic and organizational principles at play here which negate assertions of this type. Believe me, I know how easy it is to blame all of our problems on the banks but in all honestly, people would be calling the banks greedy if they'd been turned down on a loan application for that second or third house.

I just have a major problem with the banks, they are not lending at all now, and so many of my friends , and me personally, are suffering severely from this recession , and when I see a bank exec get 450,000 a year it makes my blood boil

Snakeblood

thebaz wrote: »

I just have a major problem with the banks, they are not lending at all now, and so many of my friends , and me personally, are suffering severely from this recession , and when I see a bank exec get 450,000 a year it makes my blood boil

The vast majority of people are suffering from the recession. Refusing to honour contracts isn't the way out of it though.

I was made redundant about 10 months ago, for example. the rule of law should still apply.

seven-iron

I just have a major problem with the banks, they are not lending at all now, and so many of my friends , and me personally, are suffering severely from this recession , and when I see a bank exec get 450,000 a year it makes my blood boil

A bit of green eyed jealousy there. If you want that job you'll have to work hard for it. You need exams too.

thebaz

Dravokivich wrote: »

Re-imbursed?

For what?

I still don't understand what point you are trying to make.

Well you seam to think mr. Sheehy should get re-imbursed , and

read my above post and you might understand

Snakeblood

thebaz wrote: »

Well you seam to think mr. Sheehy should get re-imbursed , and

read my above post and you might understand

He should get reimbursed. He doesn't deserve it though.

TelePaul

thebaz wrote: »

I just have a major problem with the banks, they are not lending at all now, and so many of my friends , and me personally, are suffering severely from this recession , and when I see a bank exec get 450,000 a year it makes my blood boil

Alot of people in life are paid more for their endeavours than they ought to be (cough*public-sector*cough) but that's the way it goes. Eugene Sheehy joined AIB in 1971 and contributed greatly to it's success in the boom times

thebaz

seven-iron wrote: »

A bit of green eyed jealousy there. If you want that job you'll have to work hard for it. You need exams too.

are you for real ? exams and hard work ???

if it was the BoI I could understand , maybe , but for overseeing the draining of a banks resources requires a great skill, learnt in a bookie

Dravokivich

thebaz wrote: »

Well you seam to think mr. Sheehy should get re-imbursed

No body that I noticed is being personally re-imursed as a result of bailouts by the government. There's dodgey paper work by some people to avoid declaring bankruptcy... but that's about it.

thebaz wrote: »

read my above post and you might understand

You mean this post?

thebaz wrote: »

I just have a major problem with the banks, they are not lending at all now, and so many of my friends , and me personally, are suffering severely from this recession , and when I see a bank exec get 450,000 a year it makes my blood boil

There is no point to it...

Banks are lending but they are being more selective of who they lend to and the amounts they lend out.

They are doing it right now... well... that seem's right to me...

Oh, you want to be a victim, is that it?

You want to be a victim because of someone else's high pension payouts... and your what?

...blood boiling?

thebaz

TelePaul wrote: »

Alot of people in life are paid more for their endeavours than they ought to be (cough*public-sector*cough) but that's the way it goes. Eugene Sheehy joined AIB in 1971 and contributed greatly to it's success in the boom times

Eugene Sheehy made a valuable contribution ?

welll wheres all the money in the bank , he oversaw the policy , and is respobile for the banks results .... there are many good people in the public sctor, and most have not inflicted the pain of these fat cats

TelePaul

thebaz wrote: »

are you for real ? exams and hard work ???

if it was the BoI I could understand , maybe , but for overseeing the draining of a banks resources requires a great skill, learnt in a bookie

Not being funny here, but do you know how finance works?

bobblepuzzle

thebaz wrote: »

Well you seam to think mr. Sheehy should get re-imbursed , and

read my above post and you might understand

You do relise that a lot of these guys would actually have the neck to sue for the money in their contracts if an attempt was made to block it which would be illegal anyway.

I would've thought that at least some of them would have the decency to just walk away from the golden handshakes given the public anger... but that aint happening.

seven-iron

thebaz wrote: »

are you for real ? exams and hard work ???

if it was the BoI I could understand , maybe , but for overseeing the draining of a banks resources requires a great skill, learnt in a bookie

Yeah you know what I mean. In fairness to him he had to push for all those re-mortgages when BoI and IL&P were making such large profits. Shareholders like you and me would have been angry if profits and share prices were continually lower than the other banks.

thebaz

Dravokivich wrote: »

N

Banks are lending but they are being more selective of who they lend to and the amounts they lend out.

They are doing it right now... well... that seem's right to me...

Oh, you want to be a victim, is that it?

You want to be a victim because of someone else's high pension payouts... and your what?

...blood boiling?

no they have gone to one extreme to the other , and the economy is being strangled, and less of the victim ****e Mr. Dravokivich

Dravokivich

thebaz wrote: »

no they have gone to one extreme to the other , and the economy is being strangled, and less of the victim ****e Mr. Dravokivich

An economy that was based on credit that didn't exist?

You are seriously just going to blame the Banks for that and then get annoyed because someone has a high pension payout?

TelePaul

thebaz wrote: »

Eugene Sheehy made a valuable contribution?

Yes. If you don't believe me, pull AIB's P&L account's from 2001 onwards.

thebaz wrote: »

welll wheres all the money in the bank

As before, it was lent to people who found themselves unable to repay it.

thebaz wrote: »

he oversaw the policy , and is respobile for the banks results

And was paid a salary for his efforts. You mightn't like it, but unless you sat on AIB's Board of Directors or held significant voting rights, you wouldn't have had any say in this matter.

thebaz wrote: »

.... there are many good people in the public sctor, and most have not inflicted the pain of these fat cats

Not going to open this Public vs Private can of worms, but there are many good people working in banking too. To say otherwise is just nonsense.

Gunsfortoys

thebaz wrote: »

I just have a major problem with the banks, they are not lending at all now, and so many of my friends , and me personally, are suffering severely from this recession , and when I see a bank exec get 450,000 a year it makes my blood boil

Let me see if I have got this right, you criticise the banks for lending too much one minute, creating the "mess we are in" as you put it. Now you criticise them for not lending enough. My blood boils from reading these inane posts.

thebaz

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Let me see if I have got this right, you criticise the banks for lending too much one minute, creating the "mess we are in" as you put it. Now you criticise them for not lending enough. My blood boils from reading these inane posts.

ever hear of middle ground or balance ??

thebaz

TelePaul wrote: »

Not being funny here, but do you know how finance works?

well obviously the ex-heads of the banks don;t

you are obviouskly an expert

Gunsfortoys

thebaz wrote: »

ever hear of middle ground or balance ??

Enlighten me.

thebaz

last post on this - well done to Mr, sheehy, Fitzpatrick and Fingleton on a job well done

thank you so much for making this country such a wonderfull place, that you all seam to be enjoying so much

good bye

Dravokivich

thebaz wrote: »

ever hear of middle ground or balance ??

I think what they are trying to do now is balance...

But what does that have to do with this blokes pension?

TelePaul

thebaz wrote: »

well obviously the ex-heads of the banks don;t

you are obviouskly an expert

I think it's becoming increasingly 'obviousk' that I know a bit more than yourself.

*Bows out*